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View Full Version : Mugabe, hero or tyrant?



Rum_Pirate
07-16-2018, 06:30 AM
Saw this on another forum and there were supporters of both views.

What is your view of Mugabe?

skuthorp
07-16-2018, 06:47 AM
Made a good start as a freedom fighter, but power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Revolutionaries are often an embarrassment to the civilian successors of the deposed regime, and seen as a threat because of their previous activity.
Jomo Kenyatta, terrorist, freedom fighter, political oppressor, dictator. And it continues in Kenya today, all very tribal.
Sth Africa is effected by the same circumstance despite a really good start, but with luck will escape it owing to a high level of education.

Peerie Maa
07-16-2018, 06:50 AM
Either a criminal or a dangerous incompetent.

The farm invasions severely impacted agricultural development.[326] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBlair2002236Howard-Hassmann2010899-326) Zimbabwe had produced over two million tons of maize in 2000; by 2008 this had declined to approximately 450,000.[323] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHoward-Hassmann2010899-323) By October 2003, Human Rights Watch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch) reported that half of the country's population were food insecure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_insecure), lacking enough food to meet basic needs.[327] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHoward-Hassmann2010901-327) By 2009, 75% of Zimbabwe's population were relying on food aid, the highest proportion of any country at that time.[327] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHoward-Hassmann2010901-327) Zimbabwe faced continuing economic decline. In 2000, the country's GDP was US$7.4 billion; by 2005 this had declined to US$3.4 billion.[328] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTENorman2008122-328) Inflation resulted in economic crisis.[324] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHoward-Hassmann2010900-324) By 2007, Zimbabwe had the highest inflation rate in the world, at 7600%.[328] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTENorman2008122-328) By 2008, inflation exceeded 100,000% and a loaf of bread cost a third of the average daily wage.[329] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTENorman2008135-329) Increasing numbers of Zimbabweans relied on remittances from relatives abroad.[327] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHoward-Hassmann2010901-327)
Other sectors of society were negatively affected too. By 2005, an estimated 80% of Zimbabwe's population were unemployed,[330] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHoward-Hassmann2010903-330) and by 2008 only 20% of children were in schooling.[330] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHoward-Hassmann2010903-330) The breakdown of water supplies and sewage systems resulted in a cholera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera) outbreak in late 2008, with over 98,000 cholera cases in Zimbabwe between August 2008 and mid-July 2009.[331] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHoward-Hassmann2010904-331) The ruined economy also impacted the HIV/AIDS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS) epidemic in the country; by 2008 the HIV/AIDS rate for individuals aged between 15 and 49 was 15.3%.[332] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHoward-Hassmann2010907-332) In 2007, the World Health Organisation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organisation) declared the average life expectancy in Zimbabwe to be 34 for women and 36 for men, down from 63 and 54 respectively in 1997.[328] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTENorman2008122-328) The country's lucrative tourist industry was decimated,[333] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTENorman2008121-333) and there was a rise in poaching (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poaching), including of endangered species (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangered_species).[333] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTENorman2008121-333) Mugabe directly exacerbated this problem; he ordered the killing of 100 elephants to provide meat for an April 2007 feast.[333] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#cite_note-FOOTNOTENorman2008121-333)

WX
07-16-2018, 07:09 AM
Turned his country into a basket case.

Dave Hadfield
07-16-2018, 07:26 AM
His own people would have had better lives over the last 20 years if Ian Smith had won.

Mugabe did nothing but expend his country's capital until it was all gone.

Ian McColgin
07-16-2018, 07:38 AM
We were remarkably lucky that our first president declined being called "Exelency" and figured two terms was enough. Democracies die when parties regard opposing parties are the enemy, are an existential threat, rather than competitors in a game of compromise and pragmatic dealing. Democracies die when parties attempt to impose human prefectability on our diverse imperfections.

Rum_Pirate
07-16-2018, 08:33 AM
His own people would have had better lives over the last 20 years if Ian Smith had won.

Mugabe did nothing but expend his country's capital until it was all gone.

I agree with skuthorp's comment which definitely applies, re Mr Mugabe.
'power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'


On the other forum, several posters blamed the decline on sanctions by the US and UK on Zimbabwe.

However, subject to correction, Rhodesia too had sanctions and was fairly self sufficient under Mr Smith.

Pity the country could not have been continued to be managed similarly, after hand over.

It would have been in a much much better position today.

Interestingly
In 1978, Smith and non-militant nationalists including Muzorewa signed the Internal Settlement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Settlement), under which the country became Zimbabwe Rhodesia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe_Rhodesia) in 1979. Mugabe and Nkomo continued fighting; no country recognised the settlement.
Smith was part of Muzorewa's delegation that settled with the UK and the revolutionary guerrillas at Lancaster House (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancaster_House_Agreement), and following Zimbabwe's recognised independence in 1980, he was Leader of the Opposition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader_of_the_Opposition) during Mugabe's first seven years in power.
Smith was a stridently vocal critic of the Mugabe government both before and after his retirement from frontline politics in 1987; he dedicated much of his 1997 memoirs, The Great Betrayal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Betrayal), to condemning Mugabe and several UK politicians.
As Mugabe's reputation thereafter plummeted amid Zimbabwe's economic ruin, reckoning of Smith and his legacy improved.

Has anyone here read 'The Great Betrayal' ?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-16-2018, 08:50 AM
It doesn't have to be that way. I quite the Wiki page on another African landlocked nation, not far away...


"In June 1964, the United Kingdom accepted proposals for a democratic self-government in Botswana. The seat of government was moved in 1965 from Mafikeng (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafikeng) in South Africa, to the newly established Gaborone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaborone), which is located near Botswana's border with South Africa. Based on the 1965 constitution, the country held its first general elections under universal suffrage and gained independence on 30 September 1966. Seretse Khama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seretse_Khama), a leader in the independence movement and the legitimate claimant to the Ngwato (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamangwato) chiefship, was elected as the first President, and subsequently re-elected twice.The presidency passed to the sitting Vice-President, Quett Masire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quett_Masire), who was elected in his own right in 1984 and re-elected in 1989 and 1994. Masire retired from office in 1998. He was succeeded by Festus Mogae (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festus_Mogae), who was elected in his own right in 1999 and re-elected in 2004. The presidency passed in 2008 to Ian Khama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Khama) (son of the first President), who had been serving as Mogae's Vice-President since resigning his position in 1998 as Commander of the Botswana Defence Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana_Defence_Force) to take up this civilian role.
A long-running dispute over the northern border with Namibia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namibia)'s Caprivi Strip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caprivi_Strip) was the subject of a ruling by the International Court of Justice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice) in December 1999. It ruled that Kasikili Island (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasikili_Island) belongs to Botswana.

Botswana's GDP per head is over US$18K p.a.

devout
07-16-2018, 01:56 PM
The real question is not what can be done about the past of Zimbabwe, but what can be done about the future of SA. We are staring down that very same gun-barrel at this time. Have a read:

http://www.politicsweb.co.za/opinion/land-expropriation-what-could-possibly-go-wrong

There is plenty more to be read, just google EWC in SA

Here is some more

http://www.politicsweb.co.za/opinion/the-enemies-of-property-rights