Anyone used Purple Heart for Rub Rails

[J. A.Tones]

Have any of you used Purple Heart as a rub rail and / or bulwark cap?
I will very soon be needing a fairly large quantity of a suitable hard wood for the run rails and caps for my 36 ft boat. The local boat building wood supplier has a lot of purple heart at a fair price especially when you cost out the usual woods.
Ant advise for or against not counting the color?

[mmd]

I don't have first-hand knowledge, but will pass on what I've been told by pro builders who have worked with the stuff: It is very hard and dense, is brutal on sharp tools, is highly rot-resistant, finishes fairly well, and has a tendency to split when stressed. Bends as easily as steel I-beams. Most dismiss it due to it's weight and rarity (cost) here on the East Coast.

I'll look forward to comments by the more experienced hereabouts.

[Gary Bergman]

I have a beautiful heavy relief carved purpleheart tiller on my ketch. Only big complaint not already mentioned is it bleeds like hell so you need to stay on top of your varnish,boat sauce or whatever.

[imported_Conrad]

Talked with a guy about two weeks ago who was a retired boatwright and had used it to replace all the external mahogany on a fifty foot Monk he was restoring. It looked good, although the color wasn't quite as even as mahogany. I said I'd heard the durability was good- his response was that it was primarily a cost issue for him, the purple heart being considerably less than mahogany (SW Washinton State). The stock he had on hand was heavy- probably not an issue on his boat, but could be for some. I'm thinking of using it for a swim platform that will only be oiled- have been told it may turn too dark. We'll see!?

[Wild Wassa]

Originally posted by J. A.Tones:
advise for or against not counting the color?JAT, Correct me if I'm wrong, "not counting the colour" referred to the overall colour, rather than the inconsistencies found within the colour. I've found that Purple Heart can be any colour from a maroon biased purple to almost a yellow ochre. Hand select every length. Flip the boards and run your eye over them. Don't let the timber merchant select the timber.

I will always give a warning about splinters with purple heart, although others have not struck this problem.

I found the timber to be very stable. Machining the timber is smelly (very acrid) and the timber can burn easily when using a router. The timber is hard on tools.

I found the grain to be pithy, we always steel-wooled the purple heart after sanding. On a boat you would consider using a bronze wool.

Doing a search for Purple Heart on the site will give you plenty to read.

Warren.

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

I have used it for everything from garboards to frames to rubrails to deck beams. It can be hard to bend and it looks f&%^ked up varnished, but it is highly rot resistant. If you can bend it around, I wouldn't hesistate to use it.

Thad

[mark ward]

I'm not too sure about the color for raub rails, but for all the reasons posted above, I'm laminating a 3" thick backbone and stem assembly of purpleheart this winter. B/C of the bending issue, it will be of +- 3/8" stock. But from what I'm told it's rot resistance is superb.

Best of luck

[ 10-17-2002, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: mark ward ]

[rodcross]

There's a reason that you avoid splinters with Purple Heart and it leads me to wonder if it would be suitable for any use that would involve daily handling. Its poisonous!

When Mystic Seaport was building the AMISTAD, I asked about the Purple Heart they were using and why. One of the answers was that the wood contained a high level of arsenic or a similar poison.

Just a passing conversation. I don't have any facts.

[RGM]

If I remember correctly you're rebuilding an ex-salmon troller/gillnetter, right? Or is my memory going bad? Anyway, if I were you I would consider using Purpleheart for the rub rails if you don't have to deal with much shape. A rule of thumb for Purpleheart, think of it as a substitute for Ironbark. By the way, what are the dimensions of the rub rails and how much shape do they have? Do you have to wrap the stern of the boat with them? Is your boat a double ender? Consider a different, "user friendly" wood for your rail caps, Teak, Honduras Mahog., Silver Bali, Wanna. Have we had this discussion before?

[Dave Fleming]

Ironbark getting hard to find or expensive in the PacNoWest?

[ 10-17-2002, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[J. A.Tones]

Thanks for all the input. The reason for the question in the first place is that "Iron Wood" and "Gum Wood" as well as all their derrivatives are not only becomming had to find here in Western Canada but the price is waaay up these past few years.
The rub rails are fairly straight given that my boat is a 36' ex fish boat with a rounded stern. The rub rails I am replacing are "Iron Wood" that has cracked and has several fairly deep gouges from her previous life, but no rot.
At this point I am leaning very heavily on using the "Purpleheart" for the rub rails (I will rip them lengthwise if need be and epoxy glue them once each piece is fitted as they want to be about 6" wide) and not putting any caps on the bulwarks/toe rails untill I get all the rest of the windows and trim machined out of mahogony to see if there is anything left of the "2nd mortgage" otherwise known as the boat fund. <vbg> :D
Thanks again guys - you are a wealth of information.

[Bo Curtis]

I've used purpleheart for a boarding ladder... sinks very nicely when lowered down. It's covered in Cetol and has weathered to a chocolate brown. It eats tools and I couldn't prevent smoke when drilling, no matter how sharp the bit.

I also used it for an interior step, and it's been there for 5 years with no finish at all. It's gone a bit dark, but wears well.

You might check out SALTS, I believe they used purpleheart on Pacific Grace, either for bulwark caps or some other exterior trim. they'd know what it's like to bend it. Good luck.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Dave Fleming:
Ironbark getting hard to find or expensive in the PacNoWest?Dunno about the Ironbark Dave, but when I priced Purpleheart last month, it was $3.54/bd. ft. and that was about the cheapest of all woods available. For comparison, Fir was 2x that! Iroko was over $4/bd. ft. and not in immediate supply.

[gert]

sorry, but isn't it "endangered"? You should make sure its from a plantation and then what happens to it's properties.

[ 10-19-2002, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: gert ]

[Dave Fleming]

Gosh, I recall when Ironbark sheathing was on the bow of every salmon troller in Puget Sound. Hell I even re-soled some wooden planes in the stuff.
Came from the lumber yard already milled to 1x3 inch net.
Purpleheart is best worked with TCT tipped saw blades and TCT brad point drill bits. Drilling is best in the low RPM ranges.

Whatever you do, don't use it where there will be a lot of friction. Back in the 1970's I had the priviledge along with 12 others to spend about 3 months studying under James Krenov. As you who read his books will recall he advocates wood planes for fine woodworking. After having such a hard time as an apprentice making traditional wooden planes ie: out of the solid block of Ebony, Rosewood etc.. His approach of a built up or lamininated plane body seemed ever so much easier. It was and is, but yours truly, when we en-masse went to MacBeaths Lumber in Bezerkeley, eyed the nice selection of Purpleheart for use as soles on his planes. I made several with Hard Maple bodies and Purpleheart soles and nice laminated irons from Germany.
Now comes the bad part.
I had a few nice boards set up for a small chest for SWIMPAL and they were of Spalted Birch. Birch is a whitish coloured wood except for the spalted areas. I blithly began swooshing away with my nice new and well sharpened wood planes and WHOA, what is this red streaks are appearing on my nice boards!!!!
Ayup, the culprit was the Purpleheart. As friction heated the wood, it began to bleed some of its redness onto my work! Arrggh, out came the scrapers and some time later I could continue with the chest. Those planes are sitting here within eyesight as a reminder of what not to do with Purpleheart. Oh, I made another set of planes with Hard Maple bodies and Ironbark soles.
Worked like a champ and I still on occasion use them. ;)

[J. A.Tones]

Thanks for all the comments guys. At this time my mind is made up - its PurpleHeart for the rub rails and I will worry about the caps later.

Bo - I spoke with one of the shipwrights who worked on Pacific Grace and it was his positive comments that made up my mind. He said it was great for that sort of thing as long as the bending was not very much. It appartently does not bend well even with steaming but thats OK 'cause the bends in my rub rails are less than Ive' seen recently in lumber yard stud materials <grin>
Thanks again guys
John