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Sky Blue
05-24-2018, 09:41 PM
It is about time commentators start to examine Germany's crimes against the peoples of Europe and Western Civilization itself, as no nation on earth has done more in recent history to destroy these things than Germany has.

We will see, I predict, that allowing Germany to reform as a polity in the wake of its crimes in the twentieth century was a critical mistake. The suicidal hubris has returned.

Hanson riffs on these issues here:

https://www.hoover.org/research/great-german-meltdown

Keith Wilson
05-24-2018, 10:07 PM
It is about time commentators start to examine Germany's crimes . . . Excuse me? What planet have you been living on? Since the end of the Second World War, there is probably nothing in human history that has been examined more closely that Germany's crimes, nothing that has had more words written about it, nothing that has similarly been so much in the the public consciousness that it's turned into a cliche (Godwin's law, remember?). How many times in the past week on the WBF alone have you chided people about comparing Trump with Hitler? Silly sky-blue drivel indeed.

Jim Bow
05-24-2018, 10:13 PM
Nextfrom Sky Blue "Paul McArtney was in a band before "Wings"!!!! Who knew!?!?"

Sky Blue
05-24-2018, 10:28 PM
The peoples of Europe are not laughing. Germany's policy leverage has destabilized Europe just as Hanson says, and has caused a nascent review of Atlanticism in the abstract. Good thing?

Germany has forgotten its place. As Hanson notes, whenever that happens, death and chaos in Europe follow.

Keith Wilson
05-24-2018, 10:45 PM
So how many wars has Germany started in the past 70 years? How may countries have they invaded? How many countries have been occupied by German troops? They've only been a united country from 1870 to 1945 and again from 1990 to the present. What makes you think that their record in the early 20th century predicts anything at all about what they might do tomorrow? Why not their record of the past 70 years? Or do you believe the Germans are somehow predisposed by genetics or culture or the gods or fate to periodic spasms of genocidal madness, because they did it once?

SB, this is just too silly.

PeterSibley
05-24-2018, 10:53 PM
If we are talking about crimes in the 20th century you could look much closer to home SB, the Plain of Jars ? Laos? Cambodia ?

Sky Blue
05-24-2018, 10:54 PM
Germany has recklessly and severely weakened the political consensus in Europe. In some cases, irretrievably. History tells us this is very bad.

Keith Wilson
05-24-2018, 10:57 PM
Germany has recklessly and severely weakened the political consensus in Europe. In some cases, irretrievably. History tells us this is very bad.Excuse me? The Germans did that? Not the British? I seem to recall something about a vote . . .

Sky Blue
05-24-2018, 10:58 PM
So how many wars has Germany started in the past 70 years? How may countries have they invaded? How many countries have been occupied by German troops? They've only been a united country from 1870 to 1945 and again from 1990 to the present. What makes you think that their record in the early 20th century predicts anything at all about what they might do tomorrow? Why not their record of the past 70 years? Or do you believe the Germans are somehow predisposed by genetics or culture or the gods or fate to periodic spasms of genocidal madness, because they did it once?

SB, this is just too silly.

Keith, you didn't read the piece. It's OK. But Hanson is a historian. A professor of classical history. It is precisely his point that Germany is due.

PeterSibley
05-25-2018, 01:00 AM
It is about time commentators start to examine Germany's crimes against the peoples of Europe and Western Civilization itself, as no nation on earth has done more in recent history to destroy these things than Germany has.

We will see, I predict, that allowing Germany to reform as a polity in the wake of its crimes in the twentieth century was a critical mistake. The suicidal hubris has returned.

Hanson riffs on these issues here:

https://www.hoover.org/research/great-german-meltdown

The author is scrambling for something to complain about, his attempts to recreate the past now is flimsy and silly. A foolish article by a historian who wants to see past chaos now.

lupussonic
05-25-2018, 01:12 AM
Nnnnngggggghhhhhhhhh....!!


pfffffffffffffttttppffffttttt....!!


aaah..... That's better.

skuthorp
05-25-2018, 02:15 AM
Distraction, desperate distraction…….

isla
05-25-2018, 03:58 AM
Keith, you didn't read the piece. It's OK. But Hanson is a historian. A professor of classical history. It is precisely his point that Germany is due.

You really taking this guy seriously SB? He may be a professor of classical history, but he is just a tad politically biased. :rolleyes:

A few gems from his blog site..

21st Century California Reverts back to the wild west..

How can Trump act any less constitutionally than Obama?

The Apology Tour of Our Next President
President 45 should devote considerable efforts to pointing out the follies of his immediate predecessor.

Obama: The Lamest Duck
A tiny man, boxed in by his own radical policies.

The Next President Is Going to Be Hated
Cleaning up the many messes that Obama leaves behind.

Our Superstitious President
Obama is the most anti-science, anti-factual president in modern memory. :D

https://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/

downthecreek
05-25-2018, 04:17 AM
You really taking this guy seriously SB? He may be a professor of classical history, but he is just a tad politically biased. :rolleyes:

A few gems from his blog site..



Can anyone take SB seriously? Every time I think he can't get any sillier, he gets sillier. I am especially amused by the way he jumps on his high horse about "foreigners" commenting on US affairs and......

There are many things to be said in response to this latest bit of silliness, but, why bother? SB is not worth the time or attention.

Peerie Maa
05-25-2018, 05:30 AM
Matthew 7.3-5

Dannybb55
05-25-2018, 05:38 AM
All of the TWO veterans that I have talked to said that the Germans were most like us, the U.S.

Dannybb55
05-25-2018, 05:39 AM
All of the E.T.O. veterans that I have talked to said that the Germans were most like us, the U.S.

Keith Wilson
05-25-2018, 07:28 AM
Keith, you didn't read the piece. It's OK. But Hanson is a historian. A professor of classical history. It is precisely his point that Germany is due.I did read the article, and it was largely tripe. Rather old and odiferous tripe, in fact. He may indeed be a professor of history, but when he titles the article 'The Great German Meltdown,' and starts his analysis of the present by imagining something in the German national character or destiny that causes them to go berserk ever '20 to 50 years' (rather a wide range, that, and based on a very small sample) while ignoring the fact that for the past 70 years, German has been a model citizen of the international community, one can probably dismiss him as a crackpot. Certainly Germany has its problems, and has made some mistakes; the last I checked it's inhabited entirely by human beings, not angels. Some of the things he points out are real enough; they probably did take in too many refugees too fast, and they've been rather sanctimonious and less than helpful about the financial troubles of the Mediterranean countries - but they don't at all support his alarmist thesis that the Germans are going to blow again and start invading their neighbors; not even close. It's very, very silly.

downthecreek
05-25-2018, 07:36 AM
Ifor the past 70 years, German has been a model citizen of the international community, one can probably dismiss him as a crackpot. Certainly Germany has its problems, and has made some mistakes; the last I checked it's inhabited entirely by human beings, not angels. Some of the things he points out are real enough; they probably did take in too many refugees too fast, and they've been rather sanctimonious and less than helpful about the financial troubles of the Mediterranean countries - but they don't at all support his alarmist thesis that the Germans are going to blow again and start invading their neighbors; not even close. It's very, very silly.

Indeed so. In the past 70 years Germany has built a successful and civilized society. And the Germans have confronted their past head on and no holds barred. Which is more than as seems to have happened in many American schools. When it comes to harm done internationally over the past 70 years, and with apologies to my many American friends, America beats Germany hands down.

Since SB unfurled his true colours it's clear just how ugly and tawdry they are.

LeeG
05-25-2018, 07:43 AM
VDH was the ideological hearthrob for young Republican appointees going off to work in the Green Zone. All ready to liberate Iraqi’s from their oppression. What a step up for him in the right wing media market.

Vince Brennan
05-25-2018, 08:06 AM
Just so, Pete!
Sky Bot insults the intelligence of us all.


And you are finding this out just NOW?

Guaranteed if we continue to lay the potential instability of Europe squarely where it belongs (The Brexit Boobies) we just may see a small sympathetic mushroom cloud developing over the Left Coast as a Blue Man implodes.

Peerie Maa
05-25-2018, 08:10 AM
And you are finding this out just NOW?

Guaranteed if we continue to lay the potential instability of Europe squarely where it belongs (The Brexit Boobies) we just may see a small sympathetic mushroom cloud developing over the Left Coast as a Blue Man implodes.

Well that, and the Greek national pastime of tax avoidance. Oh, and the US destabilisation of the near east under the Republicans.

Sky Blue
05-25-2018, 08:18 AM
What a bunch of weak, insult-laden responses. :)

Keith Wilson
05-25-2018, 08:50 AM
Insult-laden perhaps, but the original post and the article it links were quite divorced from reality. You were the one who wrote "It is about time commentators start to examine Germany's crimes . . . " . When you haul in a wagon load of tripe, don't complain about the flies.

Chris249
05-27-2018, 07:25 AM
What a bunch of weak, insult-laden responses. :)

No, actually they pointed out facts, such as the fact that Germany has not invaded anyone for the past half of its existence. During a comparable period, the USA has invaded several countries.

You, on the other hand, have no integrity or honesty. It is completely and utterly dishonest to imply, as you did, that commentators have not examined Germany's crimes and history. As others have noted, it's an issue that has been exhaustively examined. You appear to be too ignorant to have noticed.

It is also utterly hypocritical for you to insult another nation and then to complain about insulting replies.

The utter depths of your revolting personality have been revealed too often. You're on ignore.

Osborne Russell
05-27-2018, 09:05 AM
What a bunch of weak, insult-laden responses.


You, on the other hand, have no integrity or honesty. It is completely and utterly dishonest to imply, as you did, that commentators have not examined Germany's crimes and history.

Is intellectual dishonesty an insult?

John of Phoenix
05-27-2018, 09:10 AM
It's a moronic OP.

DON'T feed the troll.

Sky Blue
05-27-2018, 09:11 AM
I read the article and it was tripe

You're entitled to that opinion, if course, but I remind you that Hanson is a professor of classical history, has written numerous books, and is a Hoover Institution Fellow.

And you, respectfully, are none of these things, nor have you rebutted his arguments.

Osborne Russell
05-27-2018, 09:13 AM
. . . starts his analysis of the present by imagining something in the German national character or destiny that causes them to go berserk ever '20 to 50 years' . . .

You thought Godwin's law was bad !

People have to believe it's a German thing to avoid the implications. Which means it must continue to exist. It's around here somewhere . . .


On mass immigration, it is beginning to terrify the nearby nations of Eastern Europe. On Brexit, it bullies the British.

I can hear the Stukas diving !

Peerie Maa
05-27-2018, 12:17 PM
You're entitled to that opinion, if course, but I remind you that Hanson is a professor of classical history, has written numerous books, and is a Hoover Institution Fellow.

And you, respectfully, are none of these things, nor have you rebutted his arguments.

I am reminded of that geologist cited by Frank! on Acuinian's Science thread. Employed by big mining/drilling companies to do real serious geology, but also posting carp on YEC websites. having lots of letters after your name and publishing books does not guarantee correct scholarship every time.

Sky Blue
05-27-2018, 12:28 PM
I am reminded of that geologist cited by Frank! on Acuinian's Science thread. Employed by big mining/drilling companies to do real serious geology, but also posting carp on YEC websites. having lots of letters after your name and publishing books does not guarantee correct scholarship every time.


Oh, I think it will suffice to rebut claims that an opinion piece by a scholar is "tripe," especially where the critic is without similar credentials. I'll stay with Hanson for now. The Germans are due.

mmd
05-27-2018, 12:33 PM
How come you righties are quick to defend scholarly achievement as unassailable support for your point of view, but dismiss science and scientists handily when they go against your viewpoints, such as anthropomorphic global warming?

Peerie Maa
05-27-2018, 12:38 PM
Oh, I think it will suffice to rebut claims that an opinion piece by a scholar is "tripe," especially where the critic is without similar credentials. I'll stay with Hanson for now. The Germans are due.

Quite a few on here hold or held down responsible jobs, professional careers based on degree qualifications. So we are bright enough to recognise crap when we read it. Hence most of the responses that your posts attract. ;)

isla
05-27-2018, 12:41 PM
How come you righties are quick to defend scholarly achievement as unassailable support for your point of view, but dismiss science and scientists handily when they go against your viewpoints, such as anthropomorphic global warming?

That's easy. Classical historians that disgrace their profession by writing articles like..

Obama: The Lamest Duck - A tiny man, boxed in by his own radical policies.

and

The Next President Is Going to Be Hated - Cleaning up the many messes that Obama leaves behind.

Are OK, but scientists not so much. :D

Peerie Maa
05-27-2018, 01:27 PM
There is a thing about historians compared to other degree qualified professions.
No one suffers if historians get it wrong. Doctors, engineers bury their mistakes.

purri
06-08-2018, 09:23 PM
What a bunch of weak, insult-laden responses. :)
Put your own house in order.