We Need Ground Rules

[Scott Rosen]

The bilge has been way out of hand for a long time. That's nothing new. But the recent intelligence level of the political debates is in free-fall, with a couple of exceptions.

As my grandmother would say, "a good Jewish boy like you shouldn't be wasting your time talking politics with THOSE people."

Yachting, on the other hand, although it was completely alien to her, she recognized its benefits of providing fresh air and exercise, and "who knows, you might even meet a Rockefeller or a Rothschild."

If I were king, or maybe just Moderator, I would impose the following rules.

1. Membership to the Forum would be by application.

2. People who own or have owned, or built or are building, a wooden boat are granted automatic membership.

3. All others are granted a 30 day probation period, after which I, the king, will boot you for any reason in my sole, absolute and arbitrary discretion, especially the following: personal attacks, racism, threats of bodily harm.

5. In addition, I would boot those people who post frequently but only increase the rancor rather than add anything intelligent to the debate.

My goal would be to establish an exclusive community, call it snobbery if you like, of thoughtful, well-meaning and respectful wooden boat enthusiasts. It wouldn't matter what your political or religious affiliation was. Only that you shared a love for wooden boats, a genuine respect for your fellows, and a greater dose of courtesy than we usually see around here.

People whose primary activity is trolling and flaming in non-boat related subjects like politics will be shot. Intelligent and respectful non-boat discussions will be tolerated, and even encouraged to the extent they help increase respect and understanding.

My goal would be to create a body of written work that would reflect extremely highly on the ethics, intelligence and good character of wooden boaters.

Just a daydream.

[ 10-15-2004, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]

[Popeye]

People whos primary activity is trolling and inflaming in non-boat related subjects like politics will be shot.

show me the button, i'll push it.

:D :D

[Scott Rosen]

Reading this over, it occurs to me that some of you will imagine yourself being booted under my rules.

Eyup.

Ta Ta for Now.

[Harry Miller]

Procrastinating again? smile.gif

[Scott Rosen]

Yep.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I nominate Sot(t) King
I of course would have to reform ;)
But many who I have issue with would not even be eligible or soon banned :D

Sco(t) has always been a fair and reasonable member. I will go by his leadership.

My Lord your leage {genuflect} :D

[paladin]

Darn Scott...izzat called a Benevolent Monarchy..?

edited to add.....

Why izzitt the the Jewish guy always wants to be king? :D :D

[ 10-15-2004, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: paladin ]

[Scott Rosen]

Benevolent?

The people who I didn't want around wouldn't consider it Benevolent, if you know what I mean. ;)

[paladin]

aw..just hang 'em..or izzat ill eagle these days...didn't seem to bother Roy Bean....

[Scott Rosen]

Originally posted by paladin:
Why izzitt the the Jewish guy always wants to be king? :D :D We take after our Father (in Heaven). :D :D

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ya know My Lord Scot(t) even a strong King might need the services of a Bald, Grizzled, old, battle scared, dragon slayer. :D

[Kev Smyth]

Joe, is there anyone you won't play up to? :D ;)

http://www.bhra.org/dog_images/joey.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

The Alpaca that wanted to be King
http://www.caba-alpaca.org/Auction/studs04/conrad.jpg

Stud Description: King Conrad's phenotype breeds true. He has many cria that are strong and lustrous. He is our 'gentle giant' weighing in at 186 lbs with a proud conformation and a fleece of fine microns.

http://www.caba-alpaca.org/Auction/studs_zone1.html

[BrianW]

He has many cria that are strong and lustrous. He is our 'gentle giant' weighing in at 186 lbs with a proud conformation and a fleece of fine microns.Hey this is a family forum! That will be enough of that kind's tawdry trash talk! smile.gif I must now go cleanse my mind. Where'd that 'bikini contest' thread go?...

;)

[ 10-15-2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: BrianW ]

[MJC]

We don't need no stinkin' ground rules. We need well defined 'rules of engagement'.

I propose the philosophy espoused best in the movie Lawrence of Arabia when he's been driven crazy by the horrific brutality of the Turks. So when the Arabs finally attack the Turks he waves his sword over his head and charges on horseback madly screaming "Nooooo Prisoners!"

[Scott Rosen]

Originally posted by JTA:
Reading this over, it occurs to me that the ones who need it the most will not imagine themselves being booted under your rules.

JackI think they'll know who they are. But they won't care, 'cause they probably think I'm an ***hole, or worse. :D

[John C. Gresham]

A vote for Scott is a vote for not having your head on a platter. :D

[Kev Smyth]

I propose that only Jewish lawyers be allowed to post since they are clearly more enlightened than the railing masses! :rolleyes: :D

[Keith Wilson]

Good ideas, Scott, although I don't think they'll work without coercion. Those who would abide by reasonable rules mostly do so already. As evidence, I'd offer the post above by one of our more vitriolic members. I've made a couple of suggestions to reduce the stench of the bilge. Those who already behave reasonably agree; those who don't continue as they've always done.

[ 10-15-2004, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Scott Rosen]

Keith,

None of this works without having the power of the Moderator.

No coercion needed. Just a few keystrokes and, poof, they're gone.

The bilge suffers from the same problem of all unmoderated forums. The discussions tend to sink to the lowest level because, unlike real life, there is no way to exclude the obnoxious or unwanted visitor. The worse it gets, the more you chase away the better quality and more courteous posters. In the end, the only people who are left are those who actually get enjoyment from fighting and flaming.

[Kev Smyth]

vitriolic ? :eek: :cool:

I further propose that humorless engineers be allowed to post only on Mondays when their pencils are at their sharpest, and calculator batteries fresh.

In addition, in the spirit of this discussion, I further propose that all who disagree with me be banned from posting in ANY section of the forum. (I'm tired of being criticized for suggesting polyester resin has its place.) Since the WBF is here to mimic or act as a microcosm of my perfect little world, where I am always right, no dissent or discomforting thoughts will be tolerated. :D

I feel better about the future already! :D ;)

[High C]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:

None of this works without having the power of the Moderator....The moderator, or our very part time moderator, obviously doesn't care.

As proof, I observe the common occurrence of an expelled member coming back under a new name which everyone quickly recognizes as the expelled member. Yet the "new" member remains. This indicates to me that the moderator doesn't observe here much at all, or he would also recognize these new members as recent bootees and boot them again.

So how does he come to boot someone in the first place if he's not here enough to witness things for himself? He must be responding to complaint emails, the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

I don't know what else could account for the moderator's actions, but his inconsistency has certainly added to the problems. While some have their feet held to the fire, others get away with murder on a frequent basis. There do seem to be rules and standards, but they're kept a secret. We need a bit of even handed oversight here.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Conrad you have allready been banned once by Scot. Who the hell are you to talk? You are tresspassing here !! :(

[Keith Wilson]

Humorless?? HUMORLESS??? Damn! I've been called many awful things in my life, but humorless?!?!?!?? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!! http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/edoom/sad2.gif

(Real Engineers don't use calculators with batteries much anymore, we have these little HP emulator things that pop right up on our computer screens with the click of a mouse).

Scott, you're right. We need a moderator.

[Scott Rosen]

High C, I'd be happy to nominate you as Moderator, or even King of the Universe. ;)

[High C]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
High C, I'd be happy to nominate you as Moderator, or even King of the Universe. ;) Oh stop.... redface.gif :D

[Jim H]

When I first found this forum I was suprised by how attached people were to it. Over time I too became attached to the forum. There was a time when trolls were not tolerated and all forum members stood together against them. Now there are cute trolls, tolerated trolls and reformed trolls - the forum is a train wreck. Fascinating in a horrible way. The WB people should not have to pay someone to moderate a forum for adults.

[flatbottom]

MMD had the right idea in a similar thread. A couple hundred letters landing on Matt Murphy's desk would clean this mess up in a hurry.

[paladin]

I wanna be moderator.....I've got a viking battle ax that needs testing......

[Kev Smyth]

Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
Conrad you have allready been banned once by Scot. :( He knows, joey- and the funny thing is it was YOUR post on a thread of his that made it happen! Even that ploy didn't work for you in the end. Isn't life grand! But while Conrad is gone, Kev is here to maintain the balance. ;)

You have the strangest sense of justice of anyone I've even known. tongue.gif Censorship- the more the merrier, and the sooner the better!!! :D :D And put me in charge!!

[ 10-15-2004, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Kev Smyth ]

[Keith Wilson]

Hey Conrad, there's at least one thing we agree on, anyway - polyester resin! I actually built two little taped-seam boats with the stuff, which are still holding together just fine many years later.

Now back to politics. ;)

[Kev Smyth]

Originally posted by Keith Wilson:
- polyester resin! I actually built two little taped-seam boats with the stuffSheesh-bold move, Keith. But you're toast around here now. :eek: :D ;)

[Scott Rosen]

Originally posted by flatbottom:
MMD had the right idea in a similar thread. A couple hundred letters landing on Matt Murphy's desk would clean this mess up in a hurry.Jim's right that WB shouldn't have to pay someone to moderate this. I'm pretty sure they would shut the Forum down before they would pay a Moderator. Scot Bell, I'm sure, has other more pressing things to do with his time, things which actually relate to his job.

I'm afraid that if Matt M got hundreds of letters about the Forum, he would shut it down.

[Ian Wright]

It's not just the forum, it's the times we live in,,,,,,
You know what? The world was a better place when us British ran it, much better.

IanW

[Donn]

Originally posted by Ian Wright:
The world was a better place when us British ran it, much better.

IanWIt was still small enough that you could handle the job back then.

[Kev Smyth]

Here are some "ground rules" for actual posts:

No foul language
No lewd pictures
No blowing up or disrupting threads
No threats
No nasty rudeness, insinuations, or name-calling
(mild swipes and badgering are OK)

Here are some rules for posters:

Have a sense of humor
Use your free will to ignore the offensive
Recognize not everyone is like you, and it's OK
If named Joe, one pic per thread ;)

How's that?! :D

[JimD]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):

http://www.caba-alpaca.org/Auction/studs04/conrad.jpg


http://www.caba-alpaca.org/Auction/studs_zone1.html[ /QUOTE]

That's not an alpaca. That's stan trying to sneak back in again

[High C]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
I'm afraid that if Matt M got hundreds of letters about the Forum, he would shut it down.I think that's what MMD was saying in that thread...

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by Kev Smyth:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
Conrad you have allready been banned once by Scot. :( He knows, joey- and the funny thing is it was YOUR post on a thread of his that made it happen! </font>[/QUOTE]I slayed you once, you will be slayed again ;) Have ya seen Nighmoves lately ?? ;) tongue.gif

Oh and Keith as long as someone else doesn't try to start a thread of photos of me I promise no more than one per sailing thread smile.gif

[Kev Smyth]

The only thing joey "slays" is his dinner and uncut lawns..... tongue.gif ;)

http://www.bhra.org/dog_images/joey.jpg

P.S.- give that alpaca a haircut, will ya- and watch the language, or I'll complain ta Scot. I almost lost it as it was when ya said you were looking for a "bikini top" for the jeep. The red dress was bad enough, you in a bikini, in the jeep I couldn't handle. Post a pic of that and I'm gone.....

[ 10-15-2004, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Kev Smyth ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Yea go complain to Scot I dare ya - I DOUBLE DARE YA, seemed to work before didn't it

Bwaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ™

[Kev Smyth]

Actually, I hear Conrad wrote to Carl and Matt, a very nice letter. Things do seem a bit better around here since then, don't they, everything considered.... with a very few exceptions. smile.gif :cool:

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I have NEVER needed a new name
Conrad ya was ™ You are trespassing. Folla ;)

[Kev Smyth]

Keep boasting, Joe. Your behavior is too volatile to ensure your continued existence should rules come into force. The "bigger the boast, the harder the fall.."

Can you say "splat?" :D

How about that pic of you in the jeep, in the bikini? :cool:

[mmd]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
I'm afraid that if Matt M got hundreds of letters about the Forum, he would shut it down.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that's what MMD was saying in that thread... High C Actually, I think I said that a few hundred letters of complaint to Mr. Murphy might get the Misc. Non-Boat section policed better. In another thread I proposed a system of WB-appointed volunteer moderators:


An easy fix, IMHO. Appoint a moderator or moderators. Disallow discussions involving sex, politics, & religion. Blacklist rebels using the "three-strike" model. Tough love, too bad. It has been my observation over the past few years here that those who will howl the loudest about censorship and loss of freedom are the ones that are usually at the vanguard of the name-calling and trolling.

Freedom of speech be damned in this context. It is pretty apparent that some cannot rationalize freedom with good manners and proper dialogue, so they should be ostracised. They are free to take their vitriol and argumentativeness elsewhere. Obviously several here have mistaken a forum provided by the good will and generosity of a private company to be a public street corner.

I will type slowly so that you all can follow along: You are guests here. Act like you know how to be polite. - mmd (posted 02-14-2003 10:37 AM)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

http://www.nic-inc.com/pics/signs/z117.jpg

[WFK]

I don't need more ground rules,.....I already learned them in kindergarden, remember? What is needed is what's called personel accountability! Do any of you remember what that means? Being responsible for your actions instead of always looking elswhere for the answer seems to be something of the past. A moderator is only a baid-aid, and if that's what's implemented, then we have truley failed. Now grow up and don't feed the trolls! It's as simple as that.

[htom]

"The only control is self-control."

[Ian Wright]

Originally posted by Donn:
It was still small enough that you could handle the job back then.[/QB],,,,,,, and even though it's getting smaller by the second we STILL haven't found a country up to taking over the job,,,,,,, Let's hope the Chinese don't feel the need to civilize us when it's their turn, eh?

IanW.

[ 10-16-2004, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: Ian Wright ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Cosmo :D :D :D

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Originally posted by Ian Wright:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Donn:
It was still small enough that you could handle the job back then.,,,,,,, and even though it's getting smaller by the second we STILL haven't found a country up to taking over the job,,,,,,, Let's hope the Chinese don't feel the need to civilize us when it's their turn, eh?

IanW.[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]One Chinese idea that we British adopted and seem to have forgotten about was the notion of an impartial Civil Service, appointed by examination, rather than appointed by the politicos in power at the time as a way of dishing out goodies to their mates; we might usefully give that one another go. (Cf Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson...)

[bottompaint]

Shame on you Scot Rosen.

The WoodenBoatForum should be all INCLUSIVE to ANYONE and EVERYONE with any interest AT ALL in wooden boats.

The lasting nastiness of the bilge is directly linked to the EXCLUSIVE use by a select few.

What you have suggested Mr. Rosen is in effect, a continued exclusivity that will be taken advantage of by a select few.

Perhaps it is time for Wooden Boat Magazine to fund another employee that would moderate more often and take a personal interest in the forum.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Give it a freaking rest Foote :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[bottompaint]

Case in point.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Dull point :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Paul Pless]

my two cents worth:

I've been a member for about a year, have posted on numerous threads in all areas of the forum. I have trolled and been trolled. (most memorably by John B's schooner conversion, April Fools day post :D ). I have at times purposely been directly deragotory to a few individuals here. I thought, at the time, that they could of used a good kick in the rearend. There have been times I've deserved and received such treatment as well. And BTW, I've learned a great deal about boats, tools, seamanship, and human nature here.

My point is that you only take from the forum what you bring. We all come here wanting something. That may be knowledge of some specific construction technique, or you may be wanting to engage in some type of political debate. Insert warning here ***** All political discourse in the U.S. and elsewhere in the world has tendencies to devolve into vulgar and sometimes violent shouting matches *****. If you find yourself upset by something that some nearly anonymous individual has posted here, then perhaps you should look within yourself to see what is truly disturbing you.

It is my opinion that the closest analogy to our internet forum and the real world would be the Friday afternoon commute home from work. We are headed home for what should be a peaceful and joyfull time (the weekend) and we are cofronted by trolls (aggressive drivers) and their victims (those drivers that respond by be overly offensively and dangerously aggressive).

Further, we need not bother are hosts by demands for moderation. If someone here bothers you, you should use that as a lesson to how you yourself should act and react in the future.

Peace,
Paul

[JimD]

Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
Dull point :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: If a point is both dull and bluntly stated does that make it a dull, blunt point? :D

[Harry Miller]

Paul, I think it's worth four cents - your two and two more from me.

[paladin]

Many, Many Many moons ago when I wuz a fledgling Ham radio operator......I wuz taught by the ancient and prehistoric old, old timers there wuz two subjects never addressed on ham radio....one wuz politics...the other religion.......I think those were good sage words.......

[Boomkin Joe]

Originally posted by MJC:
I propose the philosophy espoused best in the movie Lawrence of Arabia when he's been driven crazy by the horrific brutality of the Turks. So when the Arabs finally attack the Turks he waves his sword over his head and charges on horseback madly screaming "Nooooo Prisoners!"The real TE Lawrence actually became a sadomasochist that very day. Just as anyone who posts in the Bilge longer than 2 bl**dy weeks. :eek:

[J. Dillon]

Bump

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

The Emperor of Ice-Cream

Call the roller of big cigars,
The muscular one, and bid him whip
In kitchen cups concupiscent curds.
Let the wenches dawdle in such dress
As they are used to wear, and let the boys
Bring flowers in last month's newspapers.
Let be be finale of seem.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream.

Take from the dresser of deal,
Lacking the three glass knobs, that sheet
On which she embroidered fantails once
And spread it so as to cover her face.
If her horny feet protrude, they come
To show how cold she is, and dumb.
Let the lamp affix its beam.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream.

-- Wallace Stevens (http://www.cs.rice.edu/%7Essiyer/minstrels/index_poet_S.html#Stevens)

[Northernguy59]

more laws ? naw............... Im out

[Phillip Allen]

Don't worry, Peter just brought up that two year old post because he wants to censor posts he doesn't approve of. He does not believe in freedom of speech as his claim of liberalism would suggest. Nothing would please him better than to ban freedom of speech from some of us in particular

[Chris Coose]

Don't worry, Peter just brought up that two year old post because he wants to censor posts he doesn't approve of. He does not believe in freedom of speech as his claim of liberalism would suggest. Nothing would please him better than to ban freedom of speech from some of us in particular

OOOPS!

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

What in hey are you talking about Philip... read the dates. John Dillon exhumed the post.... that's his right isn't it?

[Phillip Allen]

Yep, you are right and I apologize.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I do not think that Scott Rosen was ever a nice Jewish boy. If he was he would have had his nose in a Torah enough to know that EVERYTHING, including our relationship with the Almighty, is open to discussion. That's why there's all that stuff written in the margins. Of course , Jewish scholars are a cut above the boating riff-raff that assemble here but, we should not be deprived of the fun of beating a topic to a pulp just because of our low intellectual status.
Remember, even the prophets, when surrounded by sinfulness wailed out loud , "how long oh, Lord". If they would have had a Dell 4300, or equivalent, they would have spilled their guts on the web just like we do.
How's that? I just put us on a plane with the Old Testament prophets and I didn't even resort to telling lies.

Charlie

[crawdaddyjim50]

It isn't any wonder why Scot doesn't participate much anymore.
Not sure why someone would bump this unless he was mad about his alter ego getting booted. Not really sure about that too.

[Antonio Majer]

...call it snobbery if you like...
snob is a wonderful word; I read on www.etymonline.com

snob
1781, "a shoemaker, a shoemaker's apprentice," of unknown origin. It came to be used in Cambridge University slang c.1796 for "townsman, local merchant," and by 1831 it was being used for "person of the ordinary or lower classes." Meaning "person who vulgarly apes his social superiors" arose 1843, popularized 1848 by William Thackeray's "Book of Snobs." The meaning later broadened to include those who insist on their gentility, in addition to those who merely aspire to it, and by 1911 had its main modern sense of "one who despises those considered inferior in rank, attainment, or taste."

I wonder what kind of student invented this word, a true genius :D. The comic aspect is the success of the word in Europe, in Italy we have "snob" "snobbismo" "snobbistico" and "snobbare", maybe because it reflected perfectly the common idea of English people, i.e. of aristocratic snobs. Anyway, another wonderful word is "troll". The snob & the troll, they are linked by a common destiny now, maybe they are the same person in different moments of the day, suffering from a light form of schizophrenia, one cannot exist without the other anymore. The Buddy list and the Ignore list are the place where the snob and the troll declare their mutual love. Since these lists are hidden, they have to let the contents of their lists know to the others. "Plonk" means "I love you".

[Phillip Allen]

Nice, Antonio

[ishmael]

Scott,

Nice to see you sticking a toe in the water again.

Trying to ride herd on this bunch is tantamount to coralling spiders or herding cats. Every few months or so someone takes a doomed stab at it.

Short of a moderator, I don't see it changing much.

I've yet to find as good a forum on the web, so we aren't complete idiots.

[Phillip Allen]

Ish, look at the date of the first post...

[ishmael]

ah, silly me.

[Leon m]

My goal would be to establish an exclusive community, call it snobbery if you like, ]

OK...its snobbery.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

ah, silly me.

No, just drunk and reclusive.

[uncas]

Scot Rosen
I have nothing against your rules. And yup, I'm on the list to be scotted as I have gotten carried away recently. I put myself there! I have gotten carried away not everytime but enough to know that I have been in the wrong.
I'll be taking my own vacation soon. It will give me a chance to review why I am even here on this forum.
I don't want an automatic membership. Acceptance is fine but a lot of people can not afford boats especially wooden ones.
And I certainly came equiped with five thumbs on one hand and hence to not qualify as a builder/designer.
Cheers and good luck.

[Paul Girouard]

You going to be meeting Dutch in Argentina Jamie?

[Phillip Allen]

Folks...the original post is dated 2004!

[Paul Girouard]

Folks...the original post is dated 2004!


Ya so what ? You jumped right on early, shame on you for slaming Peter:eek: And nice apology;) Sllllloooowww day , EH!

[Phillip Allen]

Oh Peter had invaded another thread and deliberately disrupted it then I saw this thread and thought it was an extension of his desire to shut us up...I still think it was but just not one he thought of first...hence the apology...I was wrong about his exhuming it is all

[ishmael]

Phillip is right, if a bit archaic in his wording. There's no need to be gratuitous in our insults, as Peter often is. I recognized the slip of time, someone pulling an old thread up, said I was mildly abashed. But Peter had to jump on my case, call me a reclusive drunk. What's the point in that? It's the mean spirit of the web.

So it goes.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Why would I want to shut someone up...? Man, I'd be bored silly when I came on..:D

[uncas]

Nope Paul G.
Have a feeling I wouldn't be able to get connected to WiFi down there. Have enough trouble on the eastern seaboard.
Also, I suspect I may have to wait a while before Dutch shows up. :)

[B_B]

Procrastinating again? smile.gif

Yep

How do you think the Yankees are gonna do this year? Still optimistic? :p

[Jagermeister]

Reading the P.O.B. novels, there are many occasions where the rules of the wardroom are explained:

No discussion of politics or religion in the wardroom.

This would clean out about 99% of the vitriol and abuse. And although I freely admit to posting my share, I do it because to do otherwise would be leaving the field wide open to the "other side". An bilateral disarmament would be welcomed by me. PLEASE!

[Phillip Allen]

I come here to hear about religon and politics...if I don't want to discuss them I don't look at those posts...it is simple, it is easy. If it is not easy to pass them up then it may be a personal failing for someone but not for me.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Reading the P.O.B. novels, there are many occasions where the rules of the wardroom are explained:

No discussion of politics or religion in the wardroom.

This would clean out about 99% of the vitriol and abuse. And although I freely admit to posting my share, I do it because to do otherwise would be leaving the field wide open to the "other side". An bilateral disarmament would be welcomed by me. PLEASE!


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Phillip Allen]

Come to think of it...

I grew up in a family where we were expected to be intellectually honest, our father required it. My extended family, aunts, uncles and cousins were somewhat different. Intellectual honesty was banned. The chicken we ate came from plastic bags at the grocery...same for beef and pork etc. I and my siblings knew better but were told by those elders to keep quiet about it and also we were taught to stand outside the door and ask politely to be let in...Something they didn't require of their own children when they came to our house. I learned that sort of prejudice very young...and to despise it.

I will talk of politics when I find any willing partner and then only when I'm in the mood...what I have to say may not be valuable to others but it is valuable to me and that is all I require.