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Paul Pless
03-26-2018, 05:34 AM
Vettel. . .

beyond the first lap, there were only five on track passes during the entire race

Paul Pless
03-26-2018, 05:35 AM
and why don't they just put canopies on the cars?

skuthorp
03-26-2018, 06:14 AM
Boring…………………. Noisily boring……………….

Paul Pless
03-26-2018, 06:16 AM
Noisily boring……………….and the cars don't even sound good!

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
03-26-2018, 07:00 AM
And the winner decided by a "software glitch".....

This game needs a serious rethink.

skuthorp
03-26-2018, 07:04 AM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Monaco_Grand_Prix_Coverart.png

Democratise the GP's, everyone can drive…………….

The Bigfella
03-26-2018, 07:47 AM
Run by the Americans, isn't it? Oughta give it to the North Koreans to run... they'd spice it up.

I missed the race... was at a Baha'i memorial service for a generation of a family that died within a few months of each other.

delecta
03-26-2018, 08:27 AM
The race was fine, anytime Lewis finishes 2nd its a plus. Got to laugh at Mercedes though, blaming a software issue. It would be an improvement if they did away with the fuel saving, as if there is anything about F1 which is environmentally pleasing.

Tank them up and let them run. I want to see hydro carbon blasting out of the exhaust in the form of flames. 13189

Reynard38
03-26-2018, 08:48 AM
Ill start watching again when the rules loosen up.

Give the teams a box. Say 5 meters by 2.5 meters by 1 meter high. Car has to fit in it, that’s it. Materials, fuel, anything goes.

David G
03-26-2018, 08:50 AM
And the winner decided by a "software glitch".....

This game needs a serious rethink.

Agreed. Even as a former racer, I gave up watching most motorsports long ago.

Paul Pless
03-26-2018, 08:53 AM
Ill start watching again when the rules loosen up.

Give the teams a box. Say 5 meters by 2.5 meters by 1 meter high. Car has to fit in it, that’s it. Materials, fuel, anything goes.ala can am, group seven, 1966 - 1974

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
03-26-2018, 09:24 AM
Can am cars were the things I drew in the back of schoolbooks.

F1 needs to;
Limit downforce to make wheel to wheel racing more frequent,
Allow more freedom for visible and audible development.

At the moment the LMP cars are much better entertainment.

Paul Pless
03-26-2018, 09:38 AM
Limit downforce to make wheel to wheel racing more frequenti disagree

they need to ****can the ridiculous nascaresque drs system
and they need to scrap the flat bottom rule and bring back ground effect tunnels

the over sanitization of their circuits might also be addressed

moTthediesel
03-26-2018, 09:45 AM
ala can am, group seven, 1966 - 1974

That sounds great, and I'd agree that the Can-Am series of those years was fantastic racing. The innovation of cars like Jim Hall's "vacuum cleaner" Chaparral, and the multi-engine Shadow were fun to see for sure. Remember though, that the "open" seriies was eventually killed by the total dominance of one team -- that being the Penske/Donohue 917-30. As much fun as it was for a Porsche guy like me to watch that blue and yellow streak channel between the armco at Watkins Glen like a full size Hot Wheels car, it's obvious advantages made every other team in the series look obsolete, and they were.

An "open" F1 series would probably work the same way, with the additional problem that you would likely have 300 mph cars on those tracks in no time at all, scary.

What's my answer? I don't have one, but I hope someone does, because it looks to me like motorsports are just dying everywhere.

Tom

Paul Pless
03-26-2018, 10:00 AM
I was merely pointing out that the original Canam was the closest to a box rule that we've had at the upper echelon of racing. My favourite series and rule of all time was CART/Indycar in the decade and a half before Tony George effed it all up. A fairly wide open engine rule that saw purpose developed as well as stock block engines in inline 4's, V6's, and V8's from a wide variety of manufacturers all compete making horsepower in the 750 to 950 hp range. There were multiple chassis manufacturers including privateers, March, Lola, as well chassis manufactured by companies such as Honda. It was multi discipline, high speed oval, bull rings, temp street course, and full blown road courses. The cars were fast, reliable, relatively inexpensive (compared to f1) and the series attracted an international ownership and internationally elite driver corp - mario, emmo, the unsers, foyt, mansell, rahal, etc etc.

The racing, on track, was spectacular.

Tony George is an effing piece of ****. Probably voted for Trump.


That sounds great, and I'd agree that the Can-Am series of those years was fantastic racing. The innovation of cars like Jim Hall's "vacuum cleaner" Chaparral, and the multi-engine Shadow were fun to see for sure. Remember though, that the "open" seriies was eventually killed by the total dominance of one team -- that being the Penske/Donohue 917-30. As much fun as it was for a Porsche guy like me to watch that blue and yellow streak channel between the armco at Watkins Glen like a full size Hot Wheels car, it's obvious advantages made every other team in the series look obsolete, and they were.

An "open" F1 series would probably work the same way, with the additional problem that you would likely have 300 mph cars on those tracks in no time at all, scary.

What's my answer? I don't have one, but I hope someone does, because it looks to me like motorsports are just dying everywhere.

Tom

moTthediesel
03-26-2018, 10:12 AM
Tony George is an effing piece of ****. Probably voted for Trump.

True Paul, but to be fair, not everyone is born with the natural charm and warm nature of a Bernie Ecclestone ;)

Paul Pless
03-26-2018, 10:14 AM
if all were right in the world, eddie jordan would be the competition director of f1 :D

mmd
03-26-2018, 10:15 AM
Modern F1 isn't racing; it's a high-speed parade.

Paul Pless
03-26-2018, 10:24 AM
Modern F1 isn't racing; it's a high-speed parade.five on track passes yesterday! five!!!

mmd
03-26-2018, 10:28 AM
Did they line up in the parade-marshalling lanes incorrectly at the start of the parade?

delecta
03-26-2018, 11:49 AM
There is plenty of wheel to wheel racing in F1, one race does not make a season. F1 is a constructors championship, drivers are a necessary evil.

I think the whole notion of trying to be green is the problem. Do away with fuel saving, let them suck that stuff down as fast as it can be provided. The reason they try and save fuel is because they don't put enough in. Make them all carry 120kg, that will end this coasting crap, the faster you burn it the lighter you'll be.

No limits on the amount of power units, lets be realistic, the actual lump of aluminum is the least of the cost associated with engine design and usage.

One spec of tire for each race, with three sets required to be used. Everyone loves pit stops, well maybe not Haas.

Ground effect cars can be scary once they get some air, too many dangers associated with that design.

It really is amazing with the amount of money spent in design and execution that the simple task of fitting a wheel is so difficult. :)

lupussonic
03-26-2018, 01:03 PM
I think F1 should be banned. It's obscene, a huge waste of resources, serves nothing apart from generating testosterone hits for the unimaginative, and wealth obsession for the gullible. Oh, and it drives the celebrity culture, ever fascinated by automotive addiction, which is a major trickle down for our environmental collapse.

Its part of the problem.

delecta
03-26-2018, 03:15 PM
I think F1 should be banned. It's obscene, a huge waste of resources, serves nothing apart from generating testosterone hits for the unimaginative, and wealth obsession for the gullible. Oh, and it drives the celebrity culture, ever fascinated by automotive addiction, which is a major trickle down for our environmental collapse.

Its part of the problem.

Well, thank God you're not in charge of anything. :) I would like to hear them rev to 20k, drown out other noise.

John Meachen
03-26-2018, 03:53 PM
I thought it was an interesting race and showed us who had done the best job over the winter.For me the critical point was Ferrari timing the pitstops well and then being aided further by the safety car.Seems that Mercedes have the absolute fastest car and will dominate if they start from the front.The rate at which they develop will determine which team dominates and sadly there are the haves and have-nots pitted against one another.

I have never got the point of those who really want to be deafened by racing engines.I also guarantee that if you asked any engineer if they would be happy with less noise and more power they would think you mad for even asking and this is basically what happened with turbo engines and energy recovery.I am puzzled by the policy of only three engines a season as it requires hundreds of hours of durability testing before signing off changes as ready to race-the cost of which exceeds the new engine.The spin offs will be in a showroom in your town fairly soon as the current engines are nudging 50% thermal efficiency now and may have crept past it thus displacing the large marine diesel as the most efficient engines in use.

I agree with Paul about the CART series being the high point of open wheel racing and I think his assessment of Tony George is not only correct it is echoed by thousands of others.

The Bigfella
03-26-2018, 05:23 PM
Mark Webber was commentating here during qualifying, which I did get to see. The thing about the three engines is the need for the team to budget engine time. Mark said Mercedes apparently allocate 2 to 3 percent of each engine's life to one qualifying lap. They crank it up to 1,000 hp... and that's why they're starting at the pointy end of the field. Back in the bad fuels days, BMW were apparently getting close to 1,500 hp out of their road car-derived four cylinder engines.... but they didn't have to worry about limited engine numbers in those days.

F1 has been responsible for a lot of what's trickled down to road cars.

John Meachen
03-27-2018, 02:24 PM
I understand the point about engine time.My bafflement comes from the amount of engine time on dynos to confirm that the engine in it's latest stage of development is durable enough to put into active service.Combine this with the three engine rule and there are virtually no opportunities to upgrade an engine during the season.I think I would prefer to see five engines a year and maybe a re-shuffling of the order if good ideas get through.

The Bigfella
03-27-2018, 06:43 PM
I understand the point about engine time.My bafflement comes from the amount of engine time on dynos to confirm that the engine in it's latest stage of development is durable enough to put into active service.Combine this with the three engine rule and there are virtually no opportunities to upgrade an engine during the season.I think I would prefer to see five engines a year and maybe a re-shuffling of the order if good ideas get through.

Different engine management maps, boost settings, etc, etc. I'm sure they're wanting data on every variable and how it impacts durability.