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David G
03-13-2018, 10:03 AM
Some clueless dingbat - unfamiliar with industry standards, and primed to take needless offence - is suing Home Depot because the dimensional lumber is NOT full dimension. Claims a 4X4 should be precisely 4" by 4". I guess he wants to go back to the days when the lumber yards DID carry full dimension lumber... as it came off the saw. No planing smooth. No rounded corners. Then he can plane everything himself. Sheeeesh. Maybe this is why bbbbbbybs has been a bit scarcer than usual around here. Occupied with legal matters?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lawsuit-saying-home-depot-tricks-buyers-4x4-lumber-223834129--finance.html

Tom Wilkinson
03-13-2018, 10:10 AM
Lawsuit was dismissed. Was filed quite some time ago.

David G
03-13-2018, 10:13 AM
Lawsuit was dismissed. Was filed quite some time ago.

Yes, and the ruling came down yesterday. And he's apparently talking about re-filing.

LeeG
03-13-2018, 10:13 AM
I call your snowflake and raise another!


http://www.businessinsider.com/rick-saccone-liberals-hate-god-and-trump-2018-3

Pennsylvania state Rep. Rick Saccone, the Republican candidate in the special election for Pennsylvania's 18th Congressional District, reportedly accused the Democratic party of being galvanized by "hatred for our country" and "hatred for God," during a rally in Elizabeth, Pennsylvania on Monday.

Saccone, who was endorsed by and campaigned with President Donald Trump on Saturday, continued the campaign trail with Donald Trump Jr. on the eve of the election.

"They say the other side is energized," Saccone reportedly said. "Let me tell you, they're energized for hate for our president. They have a hatred for our president."

Saccone then suggested that liberals founded their ideals on the basis of hating religion and the US.

"I've talked to so many of these on the left," Saccone said. "And they have a hatred for our president. I tell you, many of them have a hatred for our country."

"I'll tell you some more — my wife and I saw it again today, they have a hatred for God," Saccone continued.

CWSmith
03-13-2018, 10:16 AM
Some clueless dingbat - unfamiliar with industry standards, and primed to take needless offence - is suing Home Depot because the dimensional lumber is NOT full dimension. Claims a 4X4 should be precisely 4" by 4". I guess he wants to go back to the days when the lumber yards DID carry full dimension lumber... as it came off the saw. No planing smooth. No rounded corners. Then he can plane everything himself. Sheeeesh. Maybe this is why bbbbbbybs has been a bit scarcer than usual around here. Occupied with legal matters?


I'm not sure a 4 x 4 was full dimension even when I was a kid. I'm 62. It's been that way for a very long time.

John of Phoenix
03-13-2018, 10:23 AM
I think the all time Remarkable suit was the woman who sued J&J because their contraceptive jelly didn't work. That she spread it on her toast didn't sit well with the judge.

David G
03-13-2018, 10:25 AM
I'm not sure a 4 x 4 was full dimension even when I was a kid. I'm 62. It's been that way for a very long time. When my parents were building the place on Puget Sound, full/rough was the only thing available locally. As I was growing up, it became mixed, and if you wanted smooth/planed... you had to specify "S4S" (surfaced four sides). Now, and for a long time, as you say, S4S is the norm.

SchoonerRat
03-13-2018, 10:27 AM
The local HD no longer sells 2x4s. They are now clearly labeled as 1 1/2 x 3 1/2s. 4x4s are now 3 1/2 x 3 1/2s etc. I get lots of lumber from HD. We have a dozen or more HDs withing a 20 mile radius. The company HD credit card in my wallet can usually help me finish a job no matter where I am. The change is quite recent. I first noticed it last week. Also, for some time, it's been impossible to buy a piece of 3/4" or 1/2" ply. Plywood is now measured in 1/32" increments and is shy of the 3/4" and 1/2" measurements we're used to. Furring strips are necessary to match old work that you're repairing.

DGentry
03-13-2018, 10:32 AM
Perhaps a wake-up call from this lawsuit? I've recently noted that 1x (cedar) boards at the big box stores are actually 3/4" thick again. For a long while their stock was closer to 5/8".

Rum_Pirate
03-13-2018, 10:43 AM
Perhaps a wake-up call from this lawsuit? I've recently noted that 1x (cedar) boards at the big box stores are actually 3/4" thick again. For a long while their stock was closer to 5/8".
Can you get 1 1/4"? thick boards?

Ian McColgin
03-13-2018, 10:57 AM
The National Institute of Standards and Technology in the US Department of Commerce is the responsible party. If Secretary Ross figures how introducing chaos to the building industry will assist his lust for leveraged raiding, perhaps he'll arrange for NIST to be defunded and disbanded.

Jim Bow
03-13-2018, 11:25 AM
I'm not sure a 4 x 4 was full dimension even when I was a kid. I'm 62. It's been that way for a very long time.
We had a major remodel done on a 1940 house in Seattle. The 2X4s were actually 2X4. Where walls aligned, the contractor cut shims to line things up.

Garret
03-13-2018, 11:35 AM
I can buy actual 2x4's etc. from my local mill - but only if specified - otherwise they are smaller.

Handy for restoration, though some folks don't like working with green wood.

Canoeyawl
03-13-2018, 11:50 AM
"They say the other side is energized," Saccone reportedly said. "Let me tell you, they're energized for hate for our president. They have a hatred for our president."

.

Nailed it in one!

David G
03-13-2018, 11:52 AM
I can buy actual 2x4's etc. from my local mill - but only if specified - otherwise they are smaller.

Handy for restoration, though some folks don't like working with green wood.

Yes. Local mill is the key. I'm not aware of any lumber yards around here that carries rough/green lumber, or would even special order them. Maybe Disdero. But there are all sorts of small milling operations that will supply them that way. Lots of 'em, that's ALL they offer. Full sized, green, and rough. And yes, they are splintery to handle. Douglas fir especially, though the hemlock splinters are the most obnoxious... most likely to hide and fester.

This lawsuit is silly.

But it does touch up (in a blind squirrel sort of way) an issue that might be worth addressing. That is -- what is a reasonable/acceptable standard for dressed lumber. For instance -- at one point, a 4X4 was more like 3 - 5/8". That size arrived at by what was reasonably/consistently achievable by milling a full 4" X 4" stick. Now, most rigs are more accurate. Both the saws, and the 4-sided moulders that mill them into dimensioned lumber. And still 3-5/8" has become 3.5" I think all that is happening is that the added precision is allowing the sawyer to cut a smaller rough stick, and therefore potentially increase the yield from any log. It's arguable either way. But that's not the issue the lawsuit took aim at.

AlanMc
03-13-2018, 12:01 PM
nothing new


https://www.hbsdealer.com/article/lowes-ordered-pay-2x4-settlement/

only they LOST. there's so much weird language and numbers that comes with commodity lumber sales. if you're buying 2x4's by the thousand board ft you use the full 2x4xlength/144 to get the board footage. precut studs are done different. plywood different. engineered wood different. i don't know how many times i've been asked "so how tall is a 16" I-joist?"

David G
03-13-2018, 12:22 PM
nothing new


https://www.hbsdealer.com/article/lowes-ordered-pay-2x4-settlement/

only they LOST. there's so much weird language and numbers that comes with commodity lumber sales. if you're buying 2x4's by the thousand board ft you use the full 2x4xlength/144 to get the board footage. precut studs are done different. plywood different. engineered wood different. i don't know how many times i've been asked "so how tall is a 16" I-joist?"

Not 'lost', but 'settled'.

But I think it's a fine compromise. Give the nominal dimension AND the actual.

Daniel Noyes
03-13-2018, 12:36 PM
wow...

I've got a couple places i can go within a 45 min drive for rough cut full size lumber.


this boat came into the shop as sticks of rough cut, 1" and 2" pine, 2" spruce and 5/4 white Oak...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aKZ85VBmGlWtniRBXpCndo6EsGSu6zH7yd9ezZkvo-VfukRCsHiSKFdqRkOnGDsX_5Xq0nnuvc5R27JsMKUu-llrSGI3-71VVoz2G2Vl3-WPfipKhjLVRxQuQWgjULljNK6vir4EdgV-VeXjczV7051DC1UbudflNOlNYZAVht3_cHJjl7y2yumcUsCGKD aFS3myYnRws7FcoZGo4MPDrQoIJsUFcJDWf9yQobHutw9p08ag aihWNyUgDKHhjz-u2_lfzjHGRCMD3i06ilnuZXWrCutxzlyPn_IcEgg6d0IUw1DFZ HbLHVmcn0rkKzoufOQWcoEoYPxXUYicaslvQ4yNpB-43g1gzOGnX2W66wQuJ5H2oGyKgCkbf17BU_vilgHXkCfqyWFAw pBVDw1cXcN1jLxf1bFCdgjUi8qVXvXzrIsgCpOGJwxICIdrRy1 GY2H95D_rCmNOTqR78XoVYfO2FEmZpMuKa-eMA4znBw6gpykF9CMMYfPLLF74cZJCr18hv-KTlri-hENKjO9MsgRaWPiOegy5OYvobUweU4lQX82ENVpH8_Flhi7WY6 lb0cOY8RJdCYc6WRj9NcuYD9NvPf_Z9NOGBWC7LRGXQkG9MgnM SxlkjxefyYY2f4hrzxpcBYfuIBGzz8QsIuosjZ3IaIwMYw6vhP twgcp6FqClog=w1247-h783-no

AlanMc
03-13-2018, 12:36 PM
Not 'lost', but 'settled'.

But I think it's a fine compromise. Give the nominal dimension AND the actual.



i don't have a problem with them listing the physical dimensions. but having to pay some greedy lowlife over a million dollars b/c they're "too dumb" to know what a 2x4 is... that's just WRONG

john welsford
03-13-2018, 12:40 PM
Can you get 1 1/4"? thick boards?

New Zealand sawmills cut 5/4 for export to the USA, it goes into manufacturing plants, what they're making I've no idea but its roughsawn, kiln dried and very grading specific. Radiata pine.


John Welsford

David G
03-13-2018, 12:42 PM
i don't have a problem with them listing the physical dimensions. but having to pay some greedy lowlife over a million dollars b/c they're "too dumb" to know what a 2x4 is... that's just WRONG Ayup.

Rum_Pirate
03-13-2018, 12:43 PM
PC continues to go mad.

john welsford
03-13-2018, 12:43 PM
Yes. Local mill is the key. I'm not aware of any lumber yards around here that carries rough/green lumber, or would even special order them. Maybe Disdero. But there are all sorts of small milling operations that will supply them that way. Lots of 'em, that's ALL they offer. Full sized, green, and rough. And yes, they are splintery to handle. Douglas fir especially, though the hemlock splinters are the most obnoxious... most likely to hide and fester.

This lawsuit is silly.

But it does touch up (in a blind squirrel sort of way) an issue that might be worth addressing. That is -- what is a reasonable/acceptable standard for dressed lumber. For instance -- at one point, a 4X4 was more like 3 - 5/8". That size arrived at by what was reasonably/consistently achievable by milling a full 4" X 4" stick. Now, most rigs are more accurate. Both the saws, and the 4-sided moulders that mill them into dimensioned lumber. And still 3-5/8" has become 3.5" I think all that is happening is that the added precision is allowing the sawyer to cut a smaller rough stick, and therefore potentially increase the yield from any log. It's arguable either way. But that's not the issue the lawsuit took aim at.

Another issue is shrinkage when drying, lumber can only ever be a "nominal" dimension ex the sawmill, as we all know it shrinks at different rates for different species, from different parts of the log and in different amounts according to grain direction.

John Welsford.

Osborne Russell
03-13-2018, 12:51 PM
PC continues to go mad.

Huh?

David G
03-13-2018, 12:57 PM
Another issue is shrinkage when drying, lumber can only ever be a "nominal" dimension ex the sawmill, as we all know it shrinks at different rates for different species, from different parts of the log and in different amounts according to grain direction.

John Welsford.

Yes. Different. But predictable. And certainly one has to take that factor into account when setting standards for what can be consistently delivered as a 'net' product. But none of that addresses the 'shrink' in the norm from 3-5/8" to 3-1/2" that has gradually occurred. I think that shift has to do with profit margins. I'm not railing against 3.5" as the standard. No strong feelings about it, really. It actually makes layout for structures made of dimensional lumber a bit easier. But there are arguments to be made either way.

Osborne Russell
03-13-2018, 01:02 PM
I think the all time Remarkable suit was the woman who sued J&J because their contraceptive jelly didn't work. That she spread it on her toast didn't sit well with the judge.

:d

I heard of one where a lady burned her house down because the recipe began with "Grease bottom of pan."

AlanMc
03-13-2018, 01:10 PM
i'm going to start suing architects. some draw 3.5" walls, 4" walls, 4.5" walls, 5", 5.5, 6, 8, 10, 11, and 12. their flagrant disregard for physical dimensions has caused me decades of mental anguish.

bobbys
03-13-2018, 01:41 PM
Some clueless dingbat - unfamiliar with industry standards, and primed to take needless offence - is suing Home Depot because the dimensional lumber is NOT full dimension. Claims a 4X4 should be precisely 4" by 4". I guess he wants to go back to the days when the lumber yards DID carry full dimension lumber... as it came off the saw. No planing smooth. No rounded corners. Then he can plane everything himself. Sheeeesh. Maybe this is why bbbbbbybs has been a bit scarcer than usual around here. Occupied with legal matters?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lawsuit-saying-home-depot-tricks-buyers-4x4-lumber-223834129--finance.html.

I pulled more splinters outta my hands then brew beer and pumpkin spice you ever had in volume....

Breakaway
03-13-2018, 03:26 PM
I 'd sue everybody if only I could leave the shower. But I cant. I am trapped following the directions on the shampoo label.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Kevin


:d

Tom Lathrop
03-13-2018, 06:22 PM
I 'd sue everybody if only I could leave the shower. But I cant. I am trapped following the directions on the shampoo label.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Kevin
:d

Lovely Kevin. This whole thread is beyond reasonable. Changing dimensions, weights, volumes, etc of products is old marketing strategy. At least there is good reason for lumber dimensions. If the nut making the suit bothers to look at what he is buying, he will see that it is called dimension lumber which has industry backed standards. The "discrepancy" changes for different sizes. Such as 1.5 X 1.5 (2X2), 1.5 X 3.5 (2 x 4), 1.5 X 5.5 (2 X 6), -----!.5 X 11.25 (2 X 12) and so forth.

My pound of coffee is now 12 oz and a quart of ice cram is really 3/4 quart etc, etc and so forth. Cereal changes with the manufacturers whim.

Dave Hadfield
03-13-2018, 07:38 PM
I see nothing wrong with marketing the wood in it's actual dimension. As long as it isn't metric.

I've noticed some planed wood that's not even 3/4" these days, or a full 1 1/2". It's being skimped.

The lawsuit of course is pitiable.

bobbys
03-13-2018, 08:27 PM
I 'd sue everybody if only I could leave the shower. But I cant. I am trapped following the directions on the shampoo label.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Kevin


:d.

Theres a bad joke thread......use it....

Canoeyawl
03-13-2018, 08:38 PM
.

Theres a bad joke thread......use it....

You mean " Use it, rinse, repeat"?
He'll never get out of there