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SKIP KILPATRICK
02-28-2018, 10:16 AM
One of the nation’s largest sports retailers, Dick’s Sporting Goods, said Wednesday morning it was immediately ending sales of all assault-style rifles in its stores.

The retailer also said that it would no longer sell high-capacity magazines and that it would not sell any gun to anyone under 21 years of age, regardless of local laws.

The announcement, made two weeks after the school shooting in Parkland, Fla., that killed 17 students and staff members, is one of the strongest stances taken by corporate America in the national gun debate. It also carries symbolic weight, coming from a prominent national gunseller.

Late last week, after coming under attack on social media for their ties to the National Rifle Association, a number of major companies, including Hertz car rental, MetLife insurance and Delta Air Lines, publicly ended those relationships, issuing brief, carefully phrased statements.


But Edward Stack, the 63-year-old chief executive of Dick’s whose father founded the store in 1948, is deliberately steering his company directly into the storm, making clear that the company’s new policy was a direct response to the Florida shooting.

“When we saw what happened in Parkland, we were so disturbed and upset,” Mr. Stack said in an interview Tuesday evening. “We love these kids and their rallying cry, ‘enough is enough.’ It got to us.”

He added, “We’re going to take a stand and step up and tell people our view and, hopefully, bring people along into the conversation.”


Mr. Stack said he hoped that conversation would include politicians. As part of its stance, Dick’s is calling on elected officials to enact what it called “common sense gun reform’’ by passing laws to raise the minimum age to purchase guns to 21, to ban assault-type weapons and so-called bump stocks, and to conduct broader universal background checks that include mental-health information and previous interactions with law enforcement.
Mr. Stack said the retailer began scouring its purchase records shortly after the identity of the suspected Parkland shooter, Nikolas Cruz, became known. The company soon discovered it had legally sold a gun to Mr. Cruz in November, though it was not the gun or type of gun used in the school shooting.

“But it came to us that we could have been a part of this story,’’ he said. “We said, ‘We don’t want to be a part of this any longer,’” said Mr. Stack.
That decision raised rounds of discussions with top executives inside the company as well as the directors, all of whom backed the decision to take a stance, said Mr. Stack.

As of Wednesday morning, the company said all AR-15s and other semiautomatic rifles would be removed from its stores and websites.
Mr. Stack said Dick’s remained a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment and will continue to sell a variety of sport and hunting firearms. Although he has never been a member of the N.R.A., Mr. Stack said he is, in fact, a gun owner and enjoys trapshooting clay targets.
But when it comes to selling guns to individuals under 21 years of age or stocking assault-style rifles, Mr. Stack said his company was done. “We don’t want to be a part of a mass shooting,” he said.

This is not the first time Dick’s has made changes in response to a school massacre. In 2012, after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, Dick’s removed assault-style rifles from its main retail stores. But a few months later, the company began carrying the firearms at its outdoor and hunting retail chain, Field & Stream.

This time, Mr. Stack said, the changes will be permanent.

Dick’s planned to inform its employees of the new policy in an internal note Wednesday morning, shortly after Mr. Stack appeared on “Good Morning America” to discuss the decision.

Dick’s is not the first retailer to stop selling the semiautomatic guns. In 2015, Walmart said that it would no longer sell (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/27/business/walmart-to-end-sales-of-assault-rifles-in-us-stores.html)high-powered rifles in its stores in the United States. But Walmart sidestepped any controversy involving gun politics, attributing its decision to lower customer demand for the military-style rifles.

It is unclear what financial impact the decision will have on Dick’s business. Neither Dick’s nor its competitor, Cabela’s, now owned by Bass Pro Shops, have broken out firearm sales in their financial reports. But last August, Dick’s shares plummeted after it said weak results from its hunting segment resulted in its missing Wall Street’s second-quarter earnings estimates.

Over all, firearm sales for retailers and gun manufacturers have slumped since Donald J. Trump was elected president, as fears of stricter gun regulation receded. Firearm sales data for the United States is not readily available, but background checks tumbled more than 8 percent (https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view) last year, the largest fall since the F.B.I. began keeping track in 1998.

Mr. Stack said he and his company expected there would be mixed response — including fallout — to its new policy.

“The whole hunting business is an important part of our business, and we know there is going to be backlash on this,” said Mr. Stack. “But we’re willing to accept that.”

He added, “If the kids in Parkland are being brave enough to stand up and do this, we can be brave enough to stand up with them.”

George Jung
02-28-2018, 10:27 AM
Good on them. My only question - WTH happened that any of these retailers, 'sporting goods' stores, thought it a good idea to sell assault style guns for 'hunters'?

That trend is part of what turned me off from hunting. Haven't participated in 30 years.

Old Dryfoot
02-28-2018, 10:30 AM
^ But they are modern sporting rifles, not military arms. . . the NRA says so!

George Jung
02-28-2018, 10:35 AM
Yup. And I'm the Pope.

SKIP KILPATRICK
02-28-2018, 10:35 AM
Good on them. My only question - WTH happened that any of these retailers, 'sporting goods' stores, thought it a good idea to sell assault style guns for 'hunters'?

That trend is part of what turned me off from hunting. Haven't participated in 30 years.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ nuff said!

Tom Wilkinson
02-28-2018, 10:53 AM
It's a step...

ron ll
02-28-2018, 10:56 AM
My biggest surprise at this announcement was that they sold them in the first place.

George Jung
02-28-2018, 10:59 AM
Look at Scheels, or Cabela's, and how they advertise their 'sporting' guns.

wizbang 13
02-28-2018, 11:36 AM
Not selling high capacity mags ids a big deal, imo.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 11:41 AM
ok, explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels.

StevenBauer
02-28-2018, 11:46 AM
ok, explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels.

Hopefully it will be illegal soon. Sadly, not soon enough.

mmd
02-28-2018, 11:55 AM
..."explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels." - AlanMc

Alan, there is no law that says a merchant must sell a product to a potential purchaser. In fact, there are well-entrenched laws that support shop owners's right to refuse service to people, as long as they do not contravene existing laws regarding religious or racial discrimination. As for how they can do this, all they have to do is say, "I am sorry, son, but we have a company policy that we don't sell weapons to people under twenty-one. May I interest you in camping gear - a tent, perhaps?"

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 12:00 PM
..."explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels." - AlanMc

Alan, there is no law that says a merchant must sell a product to a potential purchaser. In fact, there are well-entrenched laws that support shop owners's right to refuse service to people, as long as they do not contravene existing laws regarding religious or racial discrimination. As for how they can do this, all they have to do is say, "I am sorry, son, but we have a company policy that we don't sell weapons to people under twenty-one. May I interest you in camping gear - a tent, perhaps?"


well, the gay wedding cake scenario comes to mind.

John of Phoenix
02-28-2018, 12:03 PM
https://images.mysecuritysign.com/img/lg/S/right-to-refuse-service-osha-notice-sign-s2-2349.png

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 12:18 PM
https://images.mysecuritysign.com/img/lg/S/right-to-refuse-service-osha-notice-sign-s2-2349.png


well, that theory keeps getting shot down in court recently

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 12:46 PM
ok, explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels.

Let me explain corporation inventory and SKU to you Alan. Dicks will basically stop ordering and stop stocking and thus stop selling the items in question.

So for example even though it's perfectly legal to purchase and consume spaghetti & meatballs good luck trying to order it at Dunkin Donuts

L.W. Baxter
02-28-2018, 12:48 PM
Dick's CEO made a mistake though, apparently said out loud that "prayers don't work". Open mouth, insert foot.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 12:58 PM
Let me explain corporation inventory and SKU to you Alan. Dicks will basically stop ordering and stop stocking and thus stop selling the items in question.

So for example even though it's perfectly legal to purchase and consume spaghetti & meatballs good luck trying to order it at Dunkin Donuts


let me explain something to you joe. that's not what i'm talking about. they said they would quit selling "assault" rifles. fine. but they also said they would not sell the rifles they will keep selling to anyone under 21 even though it is legal to sell a rifle to someone under 21. are you up to speed yet?

Bobcat
02-28-2018, 01:01 PM
Again, a merchant can refuse to do business with anyone provided that the person is not in a protected class.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 01:04 PM
Again, a merchant can refuse to do business with anyone provided that the person is not in a protected class.


you sure?

Protected Class

A group of people with a common characteristic who are legally protected from employment discrimination on the basis of that characteristic. Protected classes are created by both federal and state law.

For more information, see Practice Notes, Discrimination: Overview (https://content.next.westlaw.com/Document/I03f4d9bceee311e28578f7ccc38dcbee/View/FullText.html?originationContext=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=(sc.Default)) and Recruiting and Interviewing: Minimizing Legal Risk: Protected Classes Under Federal Law (https://content.next.westlaw.com/Document/I0f9fbe4def0811e28578f7ccc38dcbee/View/FullText.html?originationContext=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=(sc.Default)#co_anchor_a341217).

Federal protected classes include:



Race.



Color.



Religion or creed.



National origin or ancestry.



Sex.



Age.



Physical or mental disability.



Veteran status.



Genetic information.



Citizenship.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 01:06 PM
also notice that sexual orientation isn't on the protected list, yet people are getting sued and losing for not selling them things.

Rich Jones
02-28-2018, 01:08 PM
PR stunt, They only sold them in their field and stream stores, which amounts to 35 stores.What's a field and stream store? I've shopped at two Dick's stores in my life. One in a heavily suburban region, the other very rural. Both sold guns.
Even if it is just 35 stores, it's a good start.
No doubt the NRA will call on it's rabid members to boycott Dick's.

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 01:08 PM
let me explain something to you joe. that's not what i'm talking about. they said they would quit selling "assault" rifles. fine. but they also said they would not sell the rifles they will keep selling to anyone under 21 even though it is legal to sell a rifle to someone under 21. are you up to speed yet?

Yea I worked in bars that required patrons to be 25 or above to have alcohol. Kept the riff raff out. They could legally raise the age they could not LOWER the age ;)

I know bodegas that require you to be 21 to purchase cigarettes even though the age limit is 18.

Canoez
02-28-2018, 01:09 PM
ok, explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels.

If you don't carry it, you can't sell it.

Bobcat
02-28-2018, 01:10 PM
also notice that sexual orientation isn't on the protected list, yet people are getting sued and losing for not selling them things.

It is some states, and the issue is being litigated in the federal courts as to federal protection in light of the USSC's decision regarding same sex marriage

CWSmith
02-28-2018, 01:11 PM
I am under the impression (not a gun owner or hunter) that there are other rifles with multi-bullet clips that fire 6 to 10 bullets without reloading, but that do not look like military assault rifles.

I get the impression it's more a matter of style than substance when comparing these different rifles.

So, are we really being reasonable to limit the discussion to "assault-style rifles" rather than semi-automatics in general?

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 01:11 PM
Yea I worked in bars that required patrons to be 25 or above to have alcohol. Kept the riff raff out. They could legally raise the age they could not LOWER the age ;)

I know bodegas that require you to be 21 to purchase cigarettes even though the age limit is 18.



ok, well that's what i'm asking if there's any legal precedent for denying service based on your age even though it's legal. i've personally never seen a place that excluded legal customers b/c they weren't old enough for some arbitrary reason.

CWSmith
02-28-2018, 01:11 PM
Dick's CEO made a mistake though, apparently said out loud that "prayers don't work". Open mouth, insert foot.

God helps those who help themselves.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 01:14 PM
If you don't carry it, you can't sell it.



read the article first, comment second.

SKIP KILPATRICK
02-28-2018, 01:19 PM
" In 2012, after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, Dick’s removed assault-style rifles from its main retail stores. But a few months later, the company began carrying the firearms at its outdoor and hunting retail chain, Field & Stream."

The Dick's branded stores haven't been selling assault rifles since 2012. The new change is to remove them from the 35 Field & Stream stores.

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 01:20 PM
ok, well that's what i'm asking if there's any legal precedent for denying service based on your age even though it's legal. i've personally never seen a place that excluded legal customers b/c they weren't old enough for some arbitrary reason.

Somehow I'm gonna trust Dick's Corporate Counsel has made sure they are fully compliant with all the laws in all the states they have a store over some right wing nut on the WBF ;) Just saying :D

SKIP KILPATRICK
02-28-2018, 01:26 PM
I'm really not sure what you guys are talking about. They weren't selling assault rifles to anyone under 21 in Dick's stores....because they weren't selling them to anyone.

Effective immediately they are pulling them from field and stream stores where persons under the age of 21 where permitted by law could by them until today's change.

John of Phoenix
02-28-2018, 01:27 PM
" In 2012, after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, Dick’s removed assault-style rifles from its main retail stores."If they haven't been sued (or hammered by the nra) since 2012... what's that tell you?

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 01:29 PM
Somehow I'm gonna trust Dick's Corporate Counsel has made sure they are fully compliant with all the laws in all the states they have a store over some right wing nut on the WBF ;) Just saying :D


oh joe, if you think I'M a rwn then you're living a sheltered life little fella.

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 01:31 PM
Market summary (https://www.google.com/search?tbm=fin&q=finance&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPQeMSozC3w8sc9YSmpSWtOXmMU4RJy y8xLzEtO9UnMS8nMSw9ITE_lAQCCiJIYKAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjw8r-Bn8nZAhWV3oMKHdynBO8Q6M8CCCgwAA) Dicks Sporting Goods Inc
NYSE: DKS - Feb 28, 1:30 PM EST
32.25 USDhttp://forum.woodenboat.com/image/svg xml;base64,PD94bWwgdmVyc2lvbj0iMS4wIiBlbmNvZGluZz0 iVVRGLTgiIHN0YW5kYWxvbmU9Im5vIj8 Cjxzdmcgd2lkdGg9IjI2cHgiIGhlaWdodD0iMjZweCIgdmlld0 JveD0iMCAwIDI2IDI2IiB2ZXJzaW9uPSIxLjEiIHhtbG5zPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy8yMDAwL3N2ZyI CiAgPHBhdGggZD0iTTEyLjUsMyBMNCwxNSBMMTAuMjgwMjg1Ny wxNSBMMTAuMjgwMjg1NywyMi41IEwxNC43MTk3MTQzLDIyLjUg TDE0LjcxOTcxNDMsMTUgTDIxLDE1IEwxMi41LDMgTDEyLjUsMy BaIiBmaWxsPSIjM0Q5NDAwIj48L3BhdGg Cjwvc3ZnPg== 0.45 (1.42%)

John of Phoenix
02-28-2018, 01:31 PM
https://www.quotemaster.org/images/88/881127000967c9e03d5f917a3c728b7e.jpeg

L.W. Baxter
02-28-2018, 01:31 PM
God helps those who help themselves.

Yes, but a CEO has some responsibility to employees and shareholders to not say counterproductive things without a good reason. It's an important aspect of leadership, missing from our current federal executive, but prevalent wherever reality rules.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 01:32 PM
I'm really not sure what you guys are talking about. They weren't selling assault rifles to anyone under 21 in Dick's stores....because they weren't selling them to anyone.

Effective immediately they are pulling them from field and stream stores where persons under the age of 21 where permitted by law could by them until today's change.


jesus. why are some of you having a hard time with this?

PART A

One of the nation’s largest sports retailers, Dick’s Sporting Goods, said Wednesday morning it was immediately ending sales of all assault-style rifles in its stores.



PART B

The retailer also said that it would no longer sell high-capacity magazines and that it would not sell any gun to anyone under 21 years of age, regardless of local laws.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
02-28-2018, 01:33 PM
well, the gay wedding cake scenario comes to mind.

If you want a gay wedding cake, ask Cabela's.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 01:38 PM
found a judge that says they could be legal in refusing to sell under 21 even though it's legal

https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/dicks-sporting-goods-violating-civil-rights-laws

that still seems strange to me. surely someone will sue them over that policy. it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 01:38 PM
Gunmaker stocks slide after Dick's halts assault rifle sales



"Thoughts and prayers are not enough. ... We will no longer sell assault-style rifles, also referred to as modern sporting rifles," Dick's CEO Edward Stack says.
Shares of American Outdoor Brands fell more than 1 percent Wednesday, while Sturm, Ruger & Co. fell 2 percent. Dick's share prices, on the other hand, rose 1 percent.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/28/gunmaker-stocks-slide-after-dicks-halts-assault-rifle-sales.html

AndyG
02-28-2018, 01:40 PM
ok, explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels.

Dunno about the US, but at bigger stores here in the UK you are very likely to be asked for ID if you look under 25 if you wish to purchase alcohol, knives (18) or paracetamol, lottery (16). No ID and the sale is stopped, no matter what the law states.

Andy

Peerie Maa
02-28-2018, 01:41 PM
Somehow I'm gonna trust Dick's Corporate Counsel has made sure they are fully compliant with all the laws in all the states they have a store


If they haven't been sued (or hammered by the nra) since 2012... what's that tell you?


jesus. why are some of you having a hard time with this?

PART A

One of the nation’s largest sports retailers, Dick’s Sporting Goods, said Wednesday morning it was immediately ending sales of all assault-style rifles in its stores.



PART B

The retailer also said that it would no longer sell high-capacity magazines and that it would not sell any gun to anyone under 21 years of age, regardless of local laws.



AlanMc, Why are you having such a hard time with this?

Chris Smith porter maine
02-28-2018, 01:41 PM
I know my local plumbing wholesaler will not sell anything propane related to the public, they will sell you a toilet for about twice what they charge me. It's all about liability and I would guess that will be dick's argument when the NRA takes them to Court.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 01:46 PM
AlanMc, Why are you having such a hard time with this?



i'm asking a legal question. i'm not a lawyer. seems like it would be against the law to refuse services to legal customers based on their age. would it be legal for them to refuse a sale b/c you are over 40? would it be legal for them to refuse to sell you gum if you're not 30?

but again, not a lawyer so that's why i ask.

Dave Gray
02-28-2018, 01:47 PM
Gotta work on Cabelas, the Second Amendment Classic store.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 01:49 PM
Dunno about the US, but at bigger stores here in the UK you are very likely to be asked for ID if you look under 25 if you wish to purchase alcohol, knives (18) or paracetamol, lottery (16). No ID and the sale is stopped, no matter what the law states.

Andy


well, asking for ID isn't quite the same thing. if your drinking age is 21, they ask for ID b/c you "look under 25"... it says you're 21, and they still refuse to sell you alcohol b/c they have a company policy that you should be 30 to buy alcohol, would that be legal to do?

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 01:54 PM
i'm asking a legal question. i'm not a lawyer. seems like it would be against the law

Question asked & answered all in the same quote ;)

Jimmy W
02-28-2018, 01:58 PM
Media Statement


We at DICK’S Sporting Goods are deeply disturbed and saddened by the tragic events in Parkland. Our thoughts and prayers are with all of the victims and their loved ones.

But thoughts and prayers are not enough.

We have tremendous respect and admiration for the students organizing and making their voices heard regarding gun violence in schools and elsewhere in our country.

We have heard you. The nation has heard you.

We support and respect the Second Amendment, and we recognize and appreciate that the vast majority of gun owners in this country are responsible, law-abiding citizens. But we have to help solve the problem that’s in front of us. Gun violence is an epidemic that’s taking the lives of too many people, including the brightest hope for the future of America – our kids.

Following all of the rules and laws, we sold a shotgun to the Parkland shooter in November of 2017. It was not the gun, nor type of gun, he used in the shooting. But it could have been.

Clearly this indicates on so many levels that the systems in place are not effective to protect our kids and our citizens.

We believe it’s time to do something about it.

Beginning today, DICK’S Sporting Goods is committed to the following:

We will no longer sell assault-style rifles, also referred to as modern sporting rifles. We had already removed them from all DICK’S stores after the Sandy Hook massacre, but we will now remove them from sale at all 35 Field & Stream stores.
We will no longer sell firearms to anyone under 21 years of age.
We will no longer sell high capacity magazines.
We never have and never will sell bump stocks that allow semi-automatic weapons to fire more rapidly.
At the same time, we implore our elected officials to enact common sense gun reform and pass the following regulations:

Ban assault-style firearms
Raise the minimum age to purchase firearms to 21
Ban high capacity magazines and bump stocks
Require universal background checks that include relevant mental health information and previous interactions with the law
Ensure a complete universal database of those banned from buying firearms
Close the private sale and gun show loophole that waives the necessity of background checks
We hope others join us in this effort to let our kids know that their pleas are being taken seriously.

Some will say these steps can’t guarantee tragedies like Parkland will never happen again. They may be correct – but if common sense reform is enacted and even one life is saved, it will have been worth it.

We deeply believe that this country’s most precious gift is our children. They are our future. We must keep them safe.

Sincerely,


Edward W. Stack
Chairman & CEO
DICK’S Sporting Goods

L.W. Baxter
02-28-2018, 02:08 PM
I was misled by a click bait headline regarding what Mr. Stack actually said about "prayers". I should know better by now.

That statement is perfectly well reasoned and a productive move business-wise, I think.

John of Phoenix
02-28-2018, 02:09 PM
Some will say these steps can’t guarantee tragedies like Parkland will never happen again. They may be correct – but if common sense reform is enacted and even one life is saved, it will have been worth it.

Brave man and those kids are amazing.

Phillip Allen
02-28-2018, 02:28 PM
that's happened several times now... I make a post then check back later and there's no sign of it

however I'll reconstruct if I may... I worked part time at a sports shop from the mid 70's to the mid 80's and we refused to handle the para military stuff ("assault" got invented later by sensation seekers)... all we got for our troubles was bankruptcy

I remember saying that if we go around frightening blue-haired old ladies we would endanger our rights

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 02:40 PM
that's happened several times now... I make a post then check back later and there's no sign of it

however I'll reconstruct if I may... I worked part time at a sports shop from the mid 70's to the mid 80's and we refused to handle the para military stuff ("assault" got invented later by sensation seekers)... all we got for our troubles was bankruptcy

I remember saying that if we go around frightening blue-haired old ladies we would endanger our rights

Dick's Market Share is up since the announcement.

Jimmy W
02-28-2018, 02:42 PM
that's happened several times now... I make a post then check back later and there's no sign of it

however I'll reconstruct if I may... I worked part time at a sports shop from the mid 70's to the mid 80's and we refused to handle the para military stuff ("assault" got invented later by sensation seekers)... all we got for our troubles was bankruptcy

I remember saying that if we go around frightening blue-haired old ladies we would endanger our rights

There are two threads on this. You posted to the other one which is now in page 2.

Bobcat
02-28-2018, 02:47 PM
i'm asking a legal question. i'm not a lawyer. seems like it would be against the law to refuse services to legal customers based on their age. would it be legal for them to refuse a sale b/c you are over 40? would it be legal for them to refuse to sell you gum if you're not 30?

but again, not a lawyer so that's why i ask.

You have been provided the answers to your question several times, but you're back at it.

You just don't like the answers

Phillip Allen
02-28-2018, 02:50 PM
There are two threads on this. You posted to the other one which is now in page 2.

thanks

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 02:53 PM
You have been provided the answers to your question several times, but you're back at it.

You just don't like the answers


no one has provided anything other than anecdotes and opinion. i have been looking it up and gathering legal opinions on it. it seems like it might be legal. and no, i don't like the idea of discriminating against someone for their age. change the law to 21, i don't care. but if the law is 19 i don't believe you should be able to tell a 19 yr old they can't buy something that's legal to sell 19 yr old.

Bobcat
02-28-2018, 02:58 PM
no one has provided anything other than anecdotes and opinion. i have been looking it up and gathering legal opinions on it. it seems like it might be legal. and no, i don't like the idea of discriminating against someone for their age. change the law to 21, i don't care. but if the law is 19 i don't believe you should be able to tell a 19 yr old they can't buy something that's legal to sell 19 yr old.

On a lot of areas of law, that's all you have are opinions. You have been told repeatedly what the law is or likely is.

I understand you don't like what you view as discrimination. Why hide behind this idea that you don't know what the law is?

I am glad that you feel you're qualified to address the legal issues without a day of law school or decades of experience in the field.

beernd
02-28-2018, 03:00 PM
..."explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels." - AlanMc

Alan, there is no law that says a merchant must sell a product to a potential purchaser. In fact, there are well-entrenched laws that support shop owners's right to refuse service to people, as long as they do not contravene existing laws regarding religious or racial discrimination. As for how they can do this, all they have to do is say, "I am sorry, son, but we have a company policy that we don't sell weapons to people under twenty-one. May I interest you in camping gear - a tent, perhaps?"

I think it is even simpler than that, they don't have to apologize, they can simply say "I am sorry we don't sell that"

ccmanuals
02-28-2018, 03:02 PM
PR stunt, They only sold them in their field and stream stores, which amounts to 35 stores.

I know they sold them at the Dick's Store in Plano (outside Dallas).

beernd
02-28-2018, 03:05 PM
ok, explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels.

They are not selling them to anybody PERIOD, because they don't have them in stock anymore, how difficult is that ?
So tell me where is the denying part?
Or do you think that the law can force them to sell AR 15?
A famous Josephine Baker quote comes to mind "Yes sir we have no bananas"

ccmanuals
02-28-2018, 03:07 PM
I guess they could say it's against their religious beliefs to sell guns to anyone under 21. Remember Hobby Lobby?

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:11 PM
They are not selling them to anybody PERIOD, because they don't have them in stock anymore, how difficult is that ?
So tell me where is the denying part?
Or do you think that the law can force them to sell AR 15?
A famous Josephine Baker quote comes to mind "Yes sir we have no bananas"


dear god. READ THE ARTICLE. i've quoted it at least once if not twice. sure, they are going to quit selling AR's. FINE BY ME, that's THEIR CHOICE and i'm not saying ANYTHING ABOUT IT. but they ALSO SAID they were going to quit selling ANY OF THEIR GUNS to anyone under 21 regardless of the local laws allowing the sales.

so let's recap. they WILL STILL SELL GUNS. but WON'T sell to someone under 21 even though it might be legal to sell certain guns (that they will STILL BE SELLING) to 19 year olds.

Phillip Allen
02-28-2018, 03:14 PM
On a lot of areas of law, that's all you have are opinions. You have been told repeatedly what the law is or likely is.

I understand you don't like what you view as discrimination. Why hide behind this idea that you don't know what the law is?

I am glad that you feel you're as qualified to address the legal issues without a day of law school or decades of experience in the field.

that sort of talk only gets more argument and intransigence... think about it,

beernd
02-28-2018, 03:14 PM
well, the gay wedding cake scenario comes to mind.

Cheezus, in the case of the gay wedding cake, the bakery made and sold cakes, and they refused to sell a cake to a gay couple.
If that bakery had stopped baking cakes totally they could have told to their customers "Sorry we don't bake cakes anymore, at all"
So where would the refuse to sell part be?
Dick's just DO NOT SELL THAT STUFF ANYMORE, so where is the refusal part come in?

Oh sh!t I am doing it again, feeding the troll, bad bad beernd.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:19 PM
On a lot of areas of law, that's all you have are opinions. You have been told repeatedly what the law is or likely is.

I understand you don't like what you view as discrimination. Why hide behind this idea that you don't know what the law is?

I am glad that you feel you're qualified to address the legal issues without a day of law school or decades of experience in the field.


i even went back and reread every reply in here. NO WHERE does anyone point out any law covering what i have asked. the ONLY person that has even responded to my question properly was joe, and he could only provide anecdotal evidence of a few places he has seen that had higher age standards than the law regarding alcohol and cigarette sales.

if you can point me to where there's a law explaining how it is legal for businesses to refuse services to legal customers based on their age that would be great. but you can keep your condescending zero substance garbage replies

Peerie Maa
02-28-2018, 03:20 PM
Cheezus, in the case of the gay wedding cake, the bakery made and sold cakes, and they refused to sell a cake to a gay couple.
If that bakery had stopped baking cakes totally they could have told to their customers "Sorry we don't bake cakes anymore, at all"
So where would the refuse to sell part be?
Dick's just DO NOT SELL THAT STUFF ANYMORE, so where is the refusal part come in?

Oh sh!t I am doing it again, feeding the troll, bad bad beernd.

Calm down, take a deep breath and count to ten.
They have not stopped selling all guns
They will not sell the guns that they do sell to a 22 yo to any one under 21. That choice of theirs is what has wound AlanMc up.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:20 PM
Cheezus, in the case of the gay wedding cake, the bakery made and sold cakes, and they refused to sell a cake to a gay couple.
If that bakery had stopped baking cakes totally they could have told to their customers "Sorry we don't bake cakes anymore, at all"
So where would the refuse to sell part be?
Dick's just DO NOT SELL THAT STUFF ANYMORE, so where is the refusal part come in?

Oh sh!t I am doing it again, feeding the troll, bad bad beernd.


HOLY JESUS are you dense.


THEY STILL SELL GUNS!!!!


they

still

sell

guns


THEY

STILL

SELL

GUNS

mmd
02-28-2018, 03:21 PM
"I am sorry that you are upset, young man, but I repeat: It is against company policy to sell weapons to anyone under 21. Period. If I can't interest you in any of the other fine products that we carry, I will have to respectfully ask you to leave the store."

beernd
02-28-2018, 03:23 PM
dear god. READ THE ARTICLE. i've quoted it at least once if not twice. sure, they are going to quit selling AR's. FINE BY ME, that's THEIR CHOICE and i'm not saying ANYTHING ABOUT IT. but they ALSO SAID they were going to quit selling ANY OF THEIR GUNS to anyone under 21 regardless of the local laws allowing the sales.

so let's recap. they WILL STILL SELL GUNS. but WON'T sell to someone under 21 even though it might be legal to sell certain guns (that they will STILL BE SELLING) to 19 year olds.
So they are a bit ahead of the new legislation that treats semi automatic rifles the same as semy automatic hand guns, big deal.
and BTW you better back down buddy or i am going to kill you dead with my gay wedding cake :d

Canoez
02-28-2018, 03:24 PM
There are stores that will not sell BB's or pellets for air rifles, or air rifles to a purchaser without a Firearms Identification Card, even though the only requirement for the purchase in this state is to be 18 years of age.

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 03:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXA9l7wFVmU

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:26 PM
There are stores that will not sell BB's or pellets for air rifles, or air rifles to a purchaser without a Firearms Identification Card, even though the only requirement for the purchase in this state is to be 18 years of age.



well how are the local kids supposed to shoot out all the street lights?

Peerie Maa
02-28-2018, 03:27 PM
It would seem that the Dick's chain is not the only retail outlet putting this policy in place https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/20/us/jason-cazes-raising-age-limit-to-buy-gun-cnntv/index.html

JimD
02-28-2018, 03:27 PM
...if you can point me to where there's a law explaining how it is legal for businesses to refuse services to legal customers based on their age that would be great. ..I wouldn't be surprised if the store policy is legally challenged as age discrimination. One for the courts to decide, perhaps. Maybe the other examples of store policies mentioned could also be challenged but no one has bothered. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, the NRA and it's legal team has to say now.

Canoez
02-28-2018, 03:30 PM
well how are the local kids supposed to shoot out all the street lights?

They're all LED now with polycarbonate lenses. I'm told they're much, MUCH harder to break and that they've only had to replace a few for failures - and not from damage.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:30 PM
i wonder what the reaction would be in this crowd if all of the local spirit shops stopped selling scotch to people over 60.... |;)

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:32 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the store policy is legally challenged as age discrimination. One for the courts to decide, perhaps. Perhaps the other examples of store policies mentioned could also be challenged but no one has bothered. It will be interesting to see what, if anything the NRA and it's legal team has to say now.



right, that's all i'm wondering about. i would be fine with the law making the legal age 21 to purchase ANY firearm. but it seems like you are being age discriminate by refusing a legal sale to someone based on their age.

mmd
02-28-2018, 03:32 PM
Wouldn't bother me a bit - I drink much safer and socially-responsible rum.

Art Haberland
02-28-2018, 03:33 PM
..."explain to me how they can legally deny a purchase to someone under 21 when it's legal at the local, state, and federal levels." - AlanMc

Alan, there is no law that says a merchant must sell a product to a potential purchaser. In fact, there are well-entrenched laws that support shop owners's right to refuse service to people, as long as they do not contravene existing laws regarding religious or racial discrimination. As for how they can do this, all they have to do is say, "I am sorry, son, but we have a company policy that we don't sell weapons to people under twenty-one. May I interest you in camping gear - a tent, perhaps?"

Try buying spray paint at Home Depot if you are 18. They won't sell it to you

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:33 PM
Wouldn't bother me a bit - I drink much safer and socially-responsible rum.


rum is neither safe nor socially responsible at my house.

beernd
02-28-2018, 03:34 PM
well how are the local kids supposed to shoot out all the street lights?

How about by trying a little harder?

Canoez
02-28-2018, 03:37 PM
Try buying spray paint at Home Depot if you are 18. They won't sell it to you

Or renting a car if you're under 25.

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 03:37 PM
Try buying spray paint at Home Depot if you are 18. They won't sell it to you

^=^=^=^
This

Peerie Maa
02-28-2018, 03:39 PM
There is a flip side to this age discrimination thing.

As it is now, although it is unlawful to refuse to serve certain classes of people, it is not unlawful to give senior citizen discounts (discrimination based on age) or free meals to groups such as children, people celebrating birthdays, and police officers even though doing so discriminates against adults, people not celebrating birthdays, and all occupations besides police officers.

beernd
02-28-2018, 03:42 PM
.

A gay wedding cake is just a cake fixed up to look gay., just like a assult rifle is just a semi auto dressed up .

And your point is?

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:42 PM
doing some light looking into the spray paint thing. looks like it's local laws prohibiting the sales. i can't find where it's a home depot company policy to not sell minors spray paint.

George Jung
02-28-2018, 03:43 PM
We just need better disclosure:

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28279226_1882029065161171_5535924027631732162_n.jp g?oh=4011359f49a1c97a18235754f13ff0e8&oe=5B098482

beernd
02-28-2018, 03:50 PM
HOLY JESUS are you dense.


THEY STILL SELL GUNS!!!!




they

still

sell

guns


THEY

STILL

SELL

GUNS

They don't sell AR 15 anymore
THEY DON'T SELL AR 15 ANYMORE.

WHERE DID I SAY THAT THEY STOPPED SELLING GUNS.
WHERE?
SO WHO IS DENSE?

OK say something even stupider, you can do it, I am sure.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:50 PM
They don't sell AR 15 anymore
THEY DON'T SELL AR 15 ANYMORE.

WHERE DID I SAY THAT THEY STOPPED SELLING GUNS.
WHERE?
SO WHO IS DENSE?

OK say something even stupider, you can do it, I am sure.



wow, getting denser i see.

beernd
02-28-2018, 03:55 PM
wow, getting denser i see.

Where did I say that they stopped selling guns?
BTW I was right you just out did your self.
I am ready for something even stupider than that, bring it on.

SKIP KILPATRICK
02-28-2018, 03:58 PM
Cat fight!!!!!

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warriorscatsfanon/images/6/6a/Cats_fighting.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150219231923

Art Haberland
02-28-2018, 03:59 PM
doing some light looking into the spray paint thing. looks like it's local laws prohibiting the sales. i can't find where it's a home depot company policy to not sell minors spray paint.

It's on a tag right on their registers and you can go online and see many many many minors complaining about not being able to buy spraypaint at HD

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 03:59 PM
Where did I say that they stopped selling guns?
BTW I was right you just out did your self.
I am ready for something even stupider than that, bring it on.


uh, right here mr dense


Cheezus, in the case of the gay wedding cake, the bakery made and sold cakes, and they refused to sell a cake to a gay couple.
If that bakery had stopped baking cakes totally they could have told to their customers "Sorry we don't bake cakes anymore, at all"
So where would the refuse to sell part be?
Dick's just DO NOT SELL THAT STUFF ANYMORE, so where is the refusal part come in?

Oh sh!t I am doing it again, feeding the troll, bad bad beernd.


you quote me in your reply, when i have been EXPLICITLY referring to dick's refusal to sell guns to anyone under 21 and say "Dick's just DO NOT SELL THAT STUFF ANYMORE, so where is the refusal part come in?"


well, the REFUSAL PART comes in, where they said they REFUSE to sell people under 21 any weapon that they sell.

is any of this getting through yet?

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 04:05 PM
It's on a tag right on their registers and you can go online and see many many many minors complaining about not being able to buy spraypaint at HD



if your HD has a sign up saying no spray paint for under 18, is that b/c it's their company policy or b/c its the law in your town? b/c at my HD there's no restriction for spray paint purchasing.

from the local paper:

"Gang graffiti seems to be popping up everywhere all across the Valley, but what if state laws could curb the growing problem?Could states actually prohibit the sale of spray paint?
That's the case in larger cities; most have laws prohibiting the sale of spray paint to minors -- those under the age of 18.
But could it happen here in the Heart of the Valley?
We take a look in this Investigator's Report.
From Sand Mountain to Athens gangs have made their presence known through graffiti.
An art form marking territorial boundaries usually serving as warnings.
In Downtown Huntsville, graffiti can be seen in a drainage ditch. MS-13, SUR-13 all major gangs based out of larger cities like L.A. and New York, but there where graffiti runs rampant the sale of spray paint and other graffiti tools is outlawed to minors.
In L.A. you must be over 18 to buy spray paint.
In New York over 21.
Here in Alabama there's no law, but the age of the culprit depends on the purpose of the crime."

JimD
02-28-2018, 04:06 PM
I'd imagine the spray paint lobby does not have a lot of politicians in its back pocket and is not very powerful in Washington and that the NRA doesn't care if kids can't buy it. I admit I have no idea what the actual existing laws are regarding age discrimination in the US or my own country but if anything could initiate a 'national discussion' on the subject this will be it.

Decourcy
02-28-2018, 04:09 PM
Any retailer has the right to not carry a legal product and allow another business to sell them and take that profit from them. And sell them they will. In fact, I predict another surge in AR sales. Particularly amongst the youth demographic, to get in ahead of the curve. There will certainly be age-related legal challenges, since the law says what it says, until it says something different.

beernd
02-28-2018, 04:10 PM
uh, right here mr dense




you quote me in your reply, when i have been EXPLICITLY referring to dick's refusal to sell guns to anyone under 21 and say "Dick's just DO NOT SELL THAT STUFF ANYMORE, so where is the refusal part come in?"


well, the REFUSAL PART comes in, where they said they REFUSE to sell people under 21 any weapon that they sell.

is any of this getting through yet?

Nice try!

You chanted they still seel guns as a reply to one fof my posts, and I asked you wher did I say that they didn't sell guns anymore.
About the refusing to sell guns to people under 21, I responded that they were starting to view semi automatic rifles the sama way as semi automatic hand hand guns.

So I adressed both questions.

Your answer "you quote me in your reply, when i have been EXPLICITLY referring to dick's refusal to sell guns to anyone under 21 and say "Dick's just DO NOT SELL THAT STUFF ANYMORE, so where is the refusal part come in?""

Only says something about your very poor comprehensive reading skills.

Work on them it will do you a world of good.

BTW this is the first time I engage in a pi$$ing match like this and I am having the time of my life.
But could you please try a little harder?
I like a little challenge from time to time.
Thank you |:)

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 04:10 PM
i'm not even remotely arguing they don't have a right to NOT SELL something in their store.

Chris249
02-28-2018, 04:11 PM
i wonder what the reaction would be in this crowd if all of the local spirit shops stopped selling scotch to people over 60.... |;)

If someone was massacring kids in school with scotch then I'd agree with the ban. My fun is not worth someone else's life.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 04:12 PM
Nice try!

You chanted they still seel guns as a reply to one fof my posts, and I asked you wher did I say that they didn't sell guns anymore.
About the refusing to sell guns to people under 21, I responded that they were starting to view semi automatic rifles the sama way as semi automatic hand hand guns.

So I adressed both questions.

Your answer "you quote me in your reply, when i have been EXPLICITLY referring to dick's refusal to sell guns to anyone under 21 and say "Dick's just DO NOT SELL THAT STUFF ANYMORE, so where is the refusal part come in?""

Only says something about your very poor comprehensive reading skills.

Work on them it will do you a world of good.

BTW this is the first time I engage in a pi$$ing match like this and I am having the time of my life.
But could you please try a little harder?
I like a little challenge from time to time.
Thank you |:)


if pi$$ing down your own leg is a match, then i must admit, you're killing me

beernd
02-28-2018, 04:12 PM
i'm not even remotely arguing they don't have a right to NOT SELL something in their store.

Tanks for making all my points, I am of for now, I will get back to you tomorrow.
You will keep it up, won't you?

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 04:14 PM
If someone was massacring kids in school with scotch then I'd agree with the ban. My fun is not worth someone else's life.


According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA), more than 80,000 people die from alcohol-related deaths each year in the United States. And alcohol continues to be one of the nation’s most preventable causes of death, second only to tobacco and a poor diet/sedentary lifestyle.

SKIP KILPATRICK
02-28-2018, 04:17 PM
According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA), more than 80,000 people die from alcohol-related deaths each year in the United States. And alcohol continues to be one of the nation’s most preventable causes of death, second only to tobacco and a poor diet/sedentary lifestyle.

Four out of five dentists surveyed recommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum.

AlanMc
02-28-2018, 04:17 PM
Four out of five dentists surveyed recommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum.


glad i got that 5th dentist.

Canoez
02-28-2018, 04:21 PM
According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA), more than 80,000 people die from alcohol-related deaths each year in the United States. And alcohol continues to be one of the nation’s most preventable causes of death, second only to tobacco and a poor diet/sedentary lifestyle.

You'll take note that there have been changes to the use and abuse of alcohol including raising the drinking age from 18 to 21, and changes to the definition of "legally intoxicated" reducing blood alcohol content. On top of that there has been a significant reduction in the number of drunk-driving incidents and increases in penalties for drunk driving. So, if you work on the problem, you get results.

John of Phoenix
02-28-2018, 04:24 PM
You'll take note that there have been changes to the use and abuse of alcohol including raising the drinking age from 18 to 21, and changes to the definition of "legally intoxicated" reducing blood alcohol content. On top of that there has been a significant reduction in the number of drunk-driving incidents and increases in penalties for drunk driving. So, if you work on the problem, you get results.Oh geez, not the logic thing again. You guys are relentless. :D

John Meachen
02-28-2018, 04:28 PM
On the less bad tempered thread on this topic there is a link to the company statement,from which this is excerpted :

"
Chairman and CEO of Dick's Sporting Goods tells @GStephanopoulos (https://twitter.com/GStephanopoulos?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) why the company has decided to no longer sell assault style rifles or firearms to anyone under 21 years of age, and no longer sell high capacity magazines. pic.twitter.com/xiuMfqIZLd (https://t.co/xiuMfqIZLd)
— Good Morning America (@GMA) February 28, 2018 (https://twitter.com/GMA/status/968821607903801344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)


Dick's Sporting Goods announced (http://pressroom.dicks.com/press-information/media-statements.aspx?camp=sns::20180227:CS2015:am:end:&utm_medium=Social%20DSG&utm_source=&utm_campaign=CS2015&utm_term=&utm_content=20180227) early Wednesday it will stop selling assault-style rifles.
Dick's also said it will no longer allow people who are under the age of 21 to purchase a gun "

Is that clear enough?Please note the question is not whether you like their new policy.

Art Haberland
02-28-2018, 04:34 PM
if your HD has a sign up saying no spray paint for under 18, is that b/c it's their company policy or b/c its the law in your town? b/c at my HD there's no restriction for spray paint purchasing.


Home Depot has a policy of not selling spray paint to Minors. NJ DOES have a regulation regarding that.


NEW JERSEY
New Jersey requires spray paint retailers to post a sign near the product display or the cashier warning that a juvenile who commits an act of graffiti is subject to a one-year driver's license suspension for a first offense and a two-year suspension for a second offense (N.J.S.A §2C:33-25).


But rather than dealing with it, HD just does not sell to Minors. Lowes, across the street, will.

Canoez
02-28-2018, 04:39 PM
Oh geez, not the logic thing again. You guys are relentless. :D

Awful, ain't it.

WX
02-28-2018, 04:42 PM
8.30 in the morning and even though I have only had one cup of tea I can still understand what AlanMc is on about.:)
I applaud the steps taken by the company to cease selling these weapons, they show more courage and a sense of ethics than those who have the power to change the laws.

John of Phoenix
02-28-2018, 04:45 PM
8.30 in the morning and even though I have only had one cup of tea I can still understand what AlanMc is on about.:)
I applaud the steps taken by the company to cease selling these weapons, they show more courage and a sense of ethics than those who have the power to change the laws.reds being led (some would whine that they're being bullied) by a bunch of kids has to be humiliating. :D

Canoez
02-28-2018, 04:53 PM
reds being led (some would whine that they're being bullied) by a bunch of kids has to be humiliating. :D

You have seen Rubio's comments about the kids, haven't you? https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/968829963007864834

John of Phoenix
02-28-2018, 05:10 PM
You have seen Rubio's comments about the kids, haven't you? https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/968829963007864834"... but we celebrate arrogance & boasting. & worst of all we have infected the next generation with the same disease"

Those kids want to go to school without worrying about getting killed is "arrogance & boasting"? That's Psychotic. That's rubio Celebrating Being Stupid.

Reynard38
02-28-2018, 05:14 PM
Definition of assault style rifle please.

John of Phoenix
02-28-2018, 05:23 PM
Those penis extender things.

Reynard38
02-28-2018, 05:28 PM
Those penis extender things.

Thanks, that narrows it down a bit ;)

Have not seen a proper definition, though the term is bandied about frequently.

SKIP KILPATRICK
02-28-2018, 05:32 PM
Definition of assault style rifle please.

not my definition, but I was curious too so this is what I found.

Pistol grip: A grip that “protrudes conspicuously” below the weapon, allowing the shooter to hold the rifle or shotgun like a pistol. Some people feel the pistol grip puts their wrist in a more comfortable position.
Forward grip: A second grip for the non-trigger hand.

Folding, telescopic, or detachable stock: The stock is the part of the gun that’s held against the shoulder. A folding, telescopic, or detachable stock makes the weapon shorter so it can be stored or concealed more easily, and may allow the stock to be adjusted for different users.

Grenade launcher or rocket launcher: Attachments that allow grenades or rockets to be fired from the muzzle or a separate barrel. These can be used to fire flares, smoke rounds, or chalk rounds. Grenades that contain explosive material are expensive and heavily regulated, and must be registered (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#nfa-firearms) with the federal government.

Barrel shroud: A ventilated covering that partially or completely encircles the barrel of a gun. This lets the shooter hold the barrel without being burned.

Threaded barrel: Threading at the tip of the barrel that allows attachments like silencers and flash suppressors to be mounted on the gun.
Under the 1994 law, an assault weapon was defined as having two of these features. Also included on the list were bayonet mounts and flash suppressors, which reduce the chances that the shooter will be blinded by the flash in low light.
The new bill would also ban ammunition feeding devices that can accept more than ten rounds and three “dangerous aftermarket modification and workarounds” used to circumvent the previous assault weapons ban. These include:

Bullet buttons: A recessed button that lets the user detach the magazine using the tip of a bullet or another small object. Since the magazine can’t be released without a tool, it’s considered fixed, not detachable.

Thumbhole stocks: A hole that lets the shooter put the thumb of their trigger hand through the stock. Since the grip doesn’t “protrude conspicuously” below the weapon, in some states thumbhole stocks aren’t considered pistol grips.

Bump or slide fire stocks: “Bump firing” is a process that allows a semiautomatic firearm to simulate an automatic weapon. It involves pulling the gun forward with the non-trigger hand until the trigger hits your finger. The recoil makes the rifle bounce against your trigger finger, allowing the gun to fire rapidly. As Slate explains (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/01/07/slide_fire_this_simple_legal_add_on_lets_an_ar_15_ fire_900_rounds_per_minute.html), this shooting method was difficult and inaccurate until the company Slide Fire Solutions introduced a replacement stock that lets users bump fire with accuracy and control.

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons-ban-summary

StevenBauer
02-28-2018, 08:07 PM
I heard Walmart will raise the age to buy guns to 21, too. True?


https://i.redd.it/rm5qes1qe0j01.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 08:24 PM
I heard Walmart will raise the age to buy guns to 21, too. True?




True

Walmart says it will raise age restriction to 21 for gun purchases, remove items resembling assault-style rifles from website
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/28/walmart-says-it-will-raise-age-restriction-to-21-for-gun-purchases-remove-items-resembling-assault-style-weapons-from-website.html

Reynard38
02-28-2018, 08:43 PM
not my definition, but I was curious too so this is what I found.

Pistol grip: A grip that “protrudes conspicuously” below the weapon, allowing the shooter to hold the rifle or shotgun like a pistol. Some people feel the pistol grip puts their wrist in a more comfortable position.
Forward grip: A second grip for the non-trigger hand.

Folding, telescopic, or detachable stock: The stock is the part of the gun that’s held against the shoulder. A folding, telescopic, or detachable stock makes the weapon shorter so it can be stored or concealed more easily, and may allow the stock to be adjusted for different users.

Grenade launcher or rocket launcher: Attachments that allow grenades or rockets to be fired from the muzzle or a separate barrel. These can be used to fire flares, smoke rounds, or chalk rounds. Grenades that contain explosive material are expensive and heavily regulated, and must be registered (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#nfa-firearms) with the federal government.

Barrel shroud: A ventilated covering that partially or completely encircles the barrel of a gun. This lets the shooter hold the barrel without being burned.

Threaded barrel: Threading at the tip of the barrel that allows attachments like silencers and flash suppressors to be mounted on the gun.
Under the 1994 law, an assault weapon was defined as having two of these features. Also included on the list were bayonet mounts and flash suppressors, which reduce the chances that the shooter will be blinded by the flash in low light.
The new bill would also ban ammunition feeding devices that can accept more than ten rounds and three “dangerous aftermarket modification and workarounds” used to circumvent the previous assault weapons ban. These include:

Bullet buttons: A recessed button that lets the user detach the magazine using the tip of a bullet or another small object. Since the magazine can’t be released without a tool, it’s considered fixed, not detachable.

Thumbhole stocks: A hole that lets the shooter put the thumb of their trigger hand through the stock. Since the grip doesn’t “protrude conspicuously” below the weapon, in some states thumbhole stocks aren’t considered pistol grips.

Bump or slide fire stocks: “Bump firing” is a process that allows a semiautomatic firearm to simulate an automatic weapon. It involves pulling the gun forward with the non-trigger hand until the trigger hits your finger. The recoil makes the rifle bounce against your trigger finger, allowing the gun to fire rapidly. As Slate explains (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/01/07/slide_fire_this_simple_legal_add_on_lets_an_ar_15_ fire_900_rounds_per_minute.html), this shooting method was difficult and inaccurate until the company Slide Fire Solutions introduced a replacement stock that lets users bump fire with accuracy and control.

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons-ban-summary

So a thumbhole stock or pistol grip is a feature of an assault weapon?
Somebody better tell the IOC about those dangerous biathletes.

Herein lies the problem. An AR is pretty easily identified as an “assault weapon”. However many target rifles used in competition or for sport shooting could also be considered in the same category by well the meaning but uninformed.
Notice this list does not mention semi auto OR large capacity magazines.

TomF
02-28-2018, 08:55 PM
I heard Walmart will raise the age to buy guns to 21, too. True?


https://i.redd.it/rm5qes1qe0j01.jpg
It would appear that the great American principle of the power of market forces may be able to counter the great American principle of the 2nd Amendment.

WX
02-28-2018, 09:01 PM
650 reported murders in Chicago last year, as reported in USA Today and not a single gathering of political leaders and zero outcry by the same media outlets that's doing marathon reporting on the 17 deaths in Florida. And no "weapons of war" was used that's known about anyway. Where has Diane Finklestien and Chuckie Baby been on calls for ending the slaughter just in that one town alone. Dana said it right at the CPAC meeting.
Different topic.

SKIP KILPATRICK
02-28-2018, 09:10 PM
So a thumbhole stock or pistol grip is a feature of an assault weapon?
Somebody better tell the IOC about those dangerous biathletes.

Herein lies the problem. An AR is pretty easily identified as an “assault weapon”. However many target rifles used in competition or for sport shooting could also be considered in the same category by well the meaning but uninformed.
Notice this list does not mention semi auto OR large capacity magazines.

i agree! I think any legislation should include a provision for ATF to have some discretion.

TomF
02-28-2018, 09:14 PM
The high school students have publicly disagreed with you on that, erster. Google will find the soundbites for you.

And surely you support the right of 2 pillars of the firearms retail community responding to customer feedback.

Art Haberland
02-28-2018, 09:19 PM
Not really, if the outraged are so concerned about stupid and senseless deaths, why now? The large liberal cities and states with some of the most restrictive gun laws sees repeated mass killings without a single peep from people like this dick at Dick Sporting Goods and all of those corporations that's now distancing themselves from the NRA. And the NRA did not kill these students in Florida. Some weekends in Chicago there are similar numbers of gun deaths or shootings and it does not even make the bilge here either by all of the same posting on this topic. And nothing in the mainstream media outlets,,,. And you also know that this shooting in Florida could have been prevented. So this would be a non-issue from the hyped up hysteria that we see now.


And what of the 27 gun homicides in St Louis in January alone? That whole throwing stones thing.

SKIP KILPATRICK
02-28-2018, 09:21 PM
You mean the spamming of company headquarters by the same liberal groups that finds a new outrage each and every day to bitch about, while sending the talking points to the bilge regulars to repost?? .


Really? You are losing this argument!

TomF
02-28-2018, 09:22 PM
You mean the spamming of company headquarters by the same liberal groups that finds a new outrage each and every day to bitch about, while sending the talking points to the bilge regulars to repost?? .

No, I mean the kids who Trump invited to his "listening session" at the White House. Who, if his comments this afternoon are to be believed at all, he may have actually "listened to".

Trump is your guy, eh?

TomF
02-28-2018, 09:28 PM
Does it occur to you, erster, that when Australia or the UK or etc changed their approach to firearms in response to a mass shooting in a specific city, firearms violence actually reduced throughout the country? Not just where that pivotal mass shooting happened?

Jim Bow
02-28-2018, 09:31 PM
I'm arriving late to this thread. Has anyone mentioned that "Dick's" branded stores stopped selling AR type guns several years ago. The latest are in Dick's owned " Field and Stream" stores.

Joe (SoCal)
02-28-2018, 09:40 PM
650 reported murders in Chicago last year, as reported in USA Today and not a single gathering of political leaders and zero outcry by the same media outlets that's doing marathon reporting on the 17 deaths in Florida. And no "weapons of war" was used that's known about anyway. Where has Diane Finklestien and Chuckie Baby been on calls for ending the slaughter just in that one town alone. Dana said it right at the CPAC meeting.


What the hell is wrong with the rabid right wing nuts and Chicago - IT'S A FALSE FLAG


http://www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/oct/03/sarah-huckabee-sanders/chicago-toughest-gun-control-claim-shot-full-holes/

Daniel Noyes
02-28-2018, 09:43 PM
^ But they are modern sporting rifles, not military arms. . . the NRA says so!

Fact check, if we are going to be factual and accurate, the military does not use AR15's... hence an AR15 is not a military arm... sorry but Liberals are wrong about this, First time for everything ... Right?

WX
02-28-2018, 09:44 PM
So there has been 27 homicides in Jan? HUM,,, Where were the threads here and outraged CEOs? Did I miss something here along with the NYT, WP and HuffyPost? Were these the result of one person with a semi automatic?

WX
02-28-2018, 09:47 PM
Fact check, if we are going to be factual and accurate, the military does not use AR15's... hence an AR15 is not a military arm... sorry but Liberals are wrong about this, First time for everything ... Right?
It’s military pattern though. This type of argument is like discussing the type of beach sand when talking about drownings.

Daniel Noyes
02-28-2018, 09:50 PM
It’s military pattern though. This type of argument is like discussing the type of beach sand when talking about drownings.

it's hyperbole, hysteria, fear mongering and misinformation... VS... honest, accurate, fact based, level headed, discussion.

Daniel Noyes
02-28-2018, 09:53 PM
What the hell is wrong with the rabid right wing nuts and Chicago - IT'S A FALSE FLAG


http://www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/oct/03/sarah-huckabee-sanders/chicago-toughest-gun-control-claim-shot-full-holes/


Fact is Gun Laws already exist ... and are not Enforced, so the only people deprived of guns by gun laws are law abiding citizens.

George Jung
02-28-2018, 09:54 PM
Fact check, if we are going to be factual and accurate, the military does not use AR15's... hence an AR15 is not a military arm... sorry but Liberals are wrong about this, First time for everything ... Right?

But then - there's this: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/28/us/ar-15-rifle-mass-shootings.html?hpw&rref=us&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well


Read it, and weep. And read it real slow for Erster...

WX
02-28-2018, 09:55 PM
These dead kids in Florida would be alive today if it was not for the failure of the Broward County school board in particular. This would be a non-issue. The kids from the school that has been on tv have voiced their opinions and anger at the wrong people. They did not even have to travel out of the county. But you guys continue to ignore this. The NRA members have not shot up any school with AR 15s. The same outraged politicians have done nothing and have been ignoring hardening up the soft topics for the expressed purpose of the national gun grab using innocent and unknowing kids as pawns. The same song and dance takes place when targeted school shootings takes place. I repeat, politicians prove their hypocrisy each and every time as they have been ignoring hundreds more innocent deaths , even similar amounts on a single weekend in minority communities.

You guys enjoy your evening now.
What about the little children at Sandy Hook? What about the 50+ dead and 500+ wounded in Las Vegas?

Daniel Noyes
02-28-2018, 09:55 PM
Were these the result of one person with a semi automatic?

More people are killed by a lightning stike than in a School Mass Shooting with an assault style rifle.

More people are killed by a COW than in a School Shooting with an assault rifle.

WX
02-28-2018, 09:57 PM
you are more likely to be killed by a lightning stike than in a School Mass Shooting with an assault style rifle.

you are more likely to be killed by a COW than in a School Shooting with an assault rifle.
Oh well that makes it okay then, nothing to see here folks move along. I wonder how you sleep at night.

Daniel Noyes
02-28-2018, 10:03 PM
Americans are more likely to be killed by a Islamic Terrorist than die in a school shooting...

https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_05/1887491/number_of_people_killed_annually_in_the_united_sta tes_by-_2-6_chartbuilder_3fc1749639ede3b4f1cec9077cbf6cb2.nb cnews-ux-2880-1000.png

Bobcat
02-28-2018, 10:03 PM
More people are killed by a lightning stike than in a School Mass Shooting with an assault style rifle.

More people are killed by a COW than in a School Shooting with an assault rifle.

Silliest post of the week

so far

Jimmy W
02-28-2018, 10:07 PM
This is fine with you then and we shouldn't try to do anything about it?


https://youtu.be/HEKf1qdCFk0

George Jung
02-28-2018, 10:08 PM
Missed it - again!, Danny. Presuming you went to school - time to get that refund! Personally, I don't think you're trying (to be honest/correct/human)

WX
02-28-2018, 10:08 PM
Americans are more likely to be killed by a Islamic Terrorist than die in a school shooting...

https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_05/1887491/number_of_people_killed_annually_in_the_united_sta tes_by-_2-6_chartbuilder_3fc1749639ede3b4f1cec9077cbf6cb2.nb cnews-ux-2880-1000.png
Rubbish and the one example you quote as terrorist is because his wife was Pakistani!

Daniel Noyes
02-28-2018, 10:11 PM
not "my" example... NBC News.

WX
02-28-2018, 10:18 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

The twin towers death toll wasn’t just US citizens, it included people from all over the planet some of whom were Muslim.
Islamic terrorists would seriously have to lift their game to come even remotely to the number your own people commit.
In fact christians commit more acts of terrorism in the US.

Old Dryfoot
02-28-2018, 10:18 PM
Fact check, if we are going to be factual and accurate, the military does not use AR15's... hence an AR15 is not a military arm... sorry but Liberals are wrong about this, First time for everything ... Right?

Look up "variant."

WX
02-28-2018, 10:18 PM
not "my" example... NBC News.
You posted it therefore...

Daniel Noyes
02-28-2018, 10:20 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

The twin towers death toll wasn’t just US citizens, it included people from all over the planet some of whom were Muslim.
Islamic terrorists would seriously have to lift their game to come even remotely to the number your own people commit.
In fact christians commit more acts of terrorism in the US.


?...

WX
02-28-2018, 10:21 PM
?...
Which bit puzzles you?

Ralphie Boy
02-28-2018, 10:42 PM
More people are killed by a lightning stike than in a School Mass Shooting with an assault style rifle.

More people are killed by a COW than in a School Shooting with an assault rifle.

Well, you can't outlaw lightning, now can you? (Kind of a stupid argument, don't you think?)

Cows actually provide a benifit to society (meat, dairy), so they aren't really like assault type weapons at all, are they? Of course you know that, somewhere deep inside; but can't admit it; because then the Liberals would win; right?
(Guess what, that's another stupid argument). Please try harder next time!
Ralphie

WX
03-01-2018, 12:34 AM
So we should accept mass murders in schools by semi auto wielding nutters because more people are killed by cows. I think you needs to up the meds Daniel.

WX
03-01-2018, 12:36 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mip9MppUsQA

TomF
03-01-2018, 07:22 AM
So we should accept mass murders in schools by semi auto wielding nutters because more people are killed by cows. I think you needs to up the meds Daniel.

Dunno about you, but I support stopping the sale of semi auto weapons to cows. 2nd Amendment be damned.

Peerie Maa
03-01-2018, 08:04 AM
Which bit puzzles you?

Life, the Universe, Everything.

AndyG
03-01-2018, 08:46 AM
well, asking for ID isn't quite the same thing. if your drinking age is 21, they ask for ID b/c you "look under 25"... it says you're 21, and they still refuse to sell you alcohol b/c they have a company policy that you should be 30 to buy alcohol, would that be legal to do?

Here, there's no legal age limit on buying a high-caffeine energy drink. Some stores are introducing an age ban on these. Under 25? You'll need ID to prove you're over 16, even though legally you can buy them at any age. There doesn't appear to be a limit on stores' individual policies.

Andy

John Meachen
03-01-2018, 10:54 AM
Americans are more likely to be killed by a Islamic Terrorist than die in a school shooting...

https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_05/1887491/number_of_people_killed_annually_in_the_united_sta tes_by-_2-6_chartbuilder_3fc1749639ede3b4f1cec9077cbf6cb2.nb cnews-ux-2880-1000.png



For some reason I can't see the line of the table that lists the numbers killed by firearms.Why might that be?

SKIP KILPATRICK
03-01-2018, 10:58 AM
It appears I have to fear right-wingers as much as Jihadists. But I already knew that!

John of Phoenix
03-01-2018, 11:36 AM
For some reason I can't see the line of the table that lists the numbers killed by firearms.Why might that be?Because it's "Off the Chart".

Dave Gray
03-01-2018, 12:01 PM
Related to firearm discussion, so relevant:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wdbd9y/the-atfs-nonsensical-non-searchable-gun-databases-explained-392

Art Haberland
03-01-2018, 12:16 PM
Americans are more likely to be killed by a Islamic Terrorist than die in a school shooting...

https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_05/1887491/number_of_people_killed_annually_in_the_united_sta tes_by-_2-6_chartbuilder_3fc1749639ede3b4f1cec9077cbf6cb2.nb cnews-ux-2880-1000.png

You know Daniel, your own chart makes you a liar. So far in 2018 there have been 20 deaths in School shootings, there were 23 last year, 2018 is off to a banner year.
Jan 20. 1 Student Shot to death at Wake Forest University in Winston Salem NC
Jan 23. Marshal County High School, 2 students shot dead, 4 wounded at Marshal County Ky
Feb 14. 17 Students killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland Florida, 14 injured.

Don't worry, the year is not even a quarter done, I am sure that School deaths due to shootings can top Lightning Strikes

SKIP KILPATRICK
03-01-2018, 12:21 PM
Chalk one up at Norfolk State University yesterday!

beernd
03-01-2018, 12:57 PM
So we should accept mass murders in schools by semi auto wielding nutters because more people are killed by cows. I think you needs to up the meds Daniel.

And what idiot decided it was OK to sell assault rifles to cows anyway?

I can imagine cows horsing around, but cows shooting rounds?.
Oh no wait I think I need my medication right now :rolleyes:

And a few stiff drinks as well.

SKIP KILPATRICK
03-01-2018, 01:13 PM
Oh you did it now!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI

Canoez
03-01-2018, 01:20 PM
:d:d:d:d:d

mmd
03-01-2018, 01:39 PM
https://youtu.be/45glq7huJJc

beernd
03-01-2018, 02:37 PM
Oh you did it now!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI
It's to late AARGH :arg

SKIP KILPATRICK
03-01-2018, 03:00 PM
Kroger-owned Fred Meyer stores won't sell guns to anyone under 21 years old

"We believe these are common sense steps we can take immediately that are in line with our values and our vision," said the company.

Dave Gray
03-01-2018, 03:38 PM
I've never seen a Fred Meyer's sell firearms and wonder where they would sell them. Roseberg?

SKIP KILPATRICK
03-01-2018, 05:21 PM
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is moving to banking reform legislation - not gun control or other responses to the high school shooting in Florida - next week in the Senate.

McConnell has filed a motion to have a procedural vote Tuesday on legislation sponsored by Senate Banking Committee Chairman Mike Crapo (R-Idaho). After that, McConnell hopes to move to legislation addressing sex trafficking, according to GOP sources.

AlanMc
03-06-2018, 09:06 AM
well, it's started already

PORTLAND, Ore. — An Oregon man filed suits Monday claiming Dick’s Sporting Goods and Walmart discriminated against the 20-year-old when they refused to sell him a rifle.
Dick’s and Walmart restricted gun sales to adults 21 and older in the wake of the Florida high school massacre. The 19-year-old accused in the school slaying bought the AR-15 used in the attack legally.
Oregon law allows residents to buy shotguns or rifles starting at age 18.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/20-year-old-sues-dicks-walmart-over-new-gun-policies/2018/03/05/c61d80a2-20f8-11e8-946c-9420060cb7bd_story.html?utm_term=.66e04b3cd0e0

Paul Pless
03-06-2018, 09:12 AM
yawn

Tom Wilkinson
03-06-2018, 09:16 AM
well, it's started already

PORTLAND, Ore. — An Oregon man filed suits Monday claiming Dick’s Sporting Goods and Walmart discriminated against the 20-year-old when they refused to sell him a rifle.
Dick’s and Walmart restricted gun sales to adults 21 and older in the wake of the Florida high school massacre. The 19-year-old accused in the school slaying bought the AR-15 used in the attack legally.
Oregon law allows residents to buy shotguns or rifles starting at age 18.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/20-year-old-sues-dicks-walmart-over-new-gun-policies/2018/03/05/c61d80a2-20f8-11e8-946c-9420060cb7bd_story.html?utm_term=.66e04b3cd0e0

There's a really simple solution to that.

mdh
03-06-2018, 09:19 AM
All it takes is two thirds of the people, and three quarters of the states.

Tom Wilkinson
03-06-2018, 09:30 AM
All it takes is two thirds of the people, and three quarters of the states.

For Dick's it only takes the guy in charge.

Vince Brennan
03-07-2018, 05:51 PM
And the guy in charge turns our NOT to be one! Go figger!

Some days you win one.

BrianW
03-07-2018, 06:10 PM
:d

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