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Joe (SoCal)
02-16-2018, 07:20 PM
OK I may be completely wrong but I'm sensing a tipping point. I hear ANGER from people about this last shooting. It's one of those times when all of a sudden things flip. Like with Gay Marriage, for years it was NO WAY IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN. Then one day it just happened.

I'm hearing a deafening outrage this time around. Sad that Sandy Hook wasn't the straw that broke the back of the NRA lobby but I get a feeling it's coming. After that, maybe decent, intelligent gun laws and reform will finally be possible.

Somehow this time I'm feeling hopeful even amidst this silly administration.

Does anyone get the same vibe ?

CWSmith
02-16-2018, 07:24 PM
I hope you're right, but I have come to believe a great many people aren't capable of seeing beyond what they are told. I sincerely hope you are right.

delecta
02-16-2018, 07:26 PM
Some new laws might be made but guns will not be taken away. There is no way to do it.

ron ll
02-16-2018, 07:29 PM
I hope youíre right Joe. But for anything to change, lawmakers have to be willing to give up millions of dollars in donations which means they wonít get elected again. Iím not holding my breath.

Joe (SoCal)
02-16-2018, 07:31 PM
2018 Midterms might be sending that much needed message.

McMike
02-16-2018, 07:31 PM
Nothing will happen. There are too many people out there that think the 2nd amendment gives them permission to have and hold any firearm that they deem necessary. So few people understand the one principal that is the glue of our constitution and our civilization; your rights end where mine begin. This principal and this principal alone should lead our law makers to outright banning most firearms.

A very scary fact is, for many people, their AR is the most expensive thing they own, it's literally the entirety of their personal wealth. If the government is allowed to simply take that, what will they retire on?

Joe (SoCal)
02-16-2018, 07:34 PM
Nothing will happen. There are too many people out there that think the 2nd amendment gives them permission to have and hold any firearm that they deem necessary. So few people understand the one principal that is the glue of our constitution and our civilization; your rights end where mine begin. This principal and this principal alone should lead our law makers to outright banning most firearms.

A very scary fact is, to many people, their AR is the most expensive thing they own, it's literally the entirety of their personal wealth. If the government is allowed to simply take that, what will they retire on?

Actually McMike I disagree I think there are more of us ( me ) and younger me's that are tipping the scale. Just like no one would ever think in my dad's generation in the 50's that two men could legally get married in the US, but in my generation they can now, and it happened fast. That's why I'm talking a tipping point. I think we might be on it with this issue now.

A generiouse buyback program will take many of those who need more than an AR-15 to retire on

Tom Montgomery
02-16-2018, 07:39 PM
Anger AND disgust are building. And it is not just over the gun issue.

My guess? In 2018 38% will vote for a Republican versus ANY Democrat.

But I think the middle-class suburban Republicans (particularly females)and Independents (of both sexes) will largely vote differently in 2018 than they did in 2016.

ron ll
02-16-2018, 07:45 PM
Anger AND disgust are building. And it is not just over the gun issue.

My guess? In 2018 38% will vote for a Republican versus ANY Democrat.

But I think the middle-class suburban Republicans (particularly females)and Independents (of both sexes) will largely vote differently in 2018 than they did in 2016.

Many people in the know seem to be very concerned that Russian interference may upset the 2018 elections. And we are doing absolutely nothing to prevent it.

CWSmith
02-16-2018, 07:53 PM
A generiouse buyback program will take many of those who need more than an AR-15 to retire on

At $500 to $1000, an AR-15 would be a very short retirement.

Gerarddm
02-16-2018, 08:07 PM
The inaction following Sandy Hook broke me. My disdain for hoplophiles became permanent.

One would like to think there would be a tipping point, Joe. But I doubt it. Not until progressives take over all three branches of government.

McMike
02-16-2018, 08:09 PM
Actually McMike I disagree I think there are more of us ( me ) and younger me's that are tipping the scale. Just like no one would ever think in my dad's generation in the 50's that two men could legally get married in the US, but in my generation they can now, and it happened fast. That's why I'm talking a tipping point. I think we might be on it with this issue now.

A generiouse buyback program will take many of those who need more than an AR-15 to retire on

A person could just as easily have done the same amount of damage with a pistol, it's not about AR-15s, stop making it about AR-15s, it makes you sound ignorant. This is simply about firearm proliferation, our country's lack of maturity, and it's aversion to thoughtfulness. None of these things are curable within the foreseeable future.

My solution; the feds should take the authority of making laws surrounding firearms away from states. It should track every gun from when it comes off the assembly line to when it is melted down for scrap. If a firearm is used in committing a violent act, life in prison. If a gun owner is negligent and that negligence results in someone else getting hurt or killed, mandatory 10 year sentence, even if it's their child, heck, especially if it's their child who was hurt or killed. We just had a 15 year old in a nearby town die because his friend's father left his shotgun out and they decided to play Russian roulette. Also, ban all semi and full-auto, magazine fed firearms. Leaving revolvers and bolt-action, break open and lever-action to hunters and carry permit holders. There must be two locks on a gun at all times unless it's on your body. A locked case or safe and a trigger lock. Give doctors the power to revoke permits and have police confiscate weapons.

Upside to gun owners, after they are registered and permitted, they can take their firearm to any state.

john l
02-16-2018, 08:12 PM
It's easier to track a bag of lettuce than a gun. In fact a gun is probably the most difficult product to track. This is by law. Check out that gq article.

McMike
02-16-2018, 08:33 PM
It's easier to track a bag of lettuce than a gun. In fact a gun is probably the most difficult product to track. This is by law. Check out that gq article.

The laws need to be changed and created.

LeeG
02-16-2018, 08:35 PM
Things will tip when support crumbles, don’t see it happening yet. The pisser is that there are a lot of solutions that can move towards less proliferation of firearms and more social connectivity/containment for the nut jobs but it’ll take a generational change.

LeeG
02-16-2018, 08:39 PM
A person could just as easily have done the same amount of damage with a pistol, it's not about AR-15s, stop making it about AR-15s, it makes you sound ignorant. This is simply about firearm proliferation, our country's lack of maturity, and it's aversion to thoughtfulness. None of these things are curable within the foreseeable future.

My solution; the feds should take the authority of making laws surrounding firearms away from states. It should track every gun from when it comes off the assembly line to when it is melted down for scrap. If a firearm is used in committing a violent act, life in prison. If a gun owner is negligent and that negligence results in someone else getting hurt or killed, mandatory 10 year sentence, even if it's their child, heck, especially if it's their child who was hurt or killed. We just had a 15 year old in a nearby town die because his friend's father left his shotgun out and they decided to play Russian roulette. Also, ban all semi and full-auto, magazine fed firearms. Leaving revolvers and bolt-action, break open and lever-action to hunters and carry permit holders. There must be two locks on a gun at all times unless it's on your body. A locked case or safe and a trigger lock. Give doctors the power to revoke permits and have police confiscate weapons.

Upside to gun owners, after they are registered and permitted, they can take their firearm to any state.

all that makes lots of sense. Btw my son-in-law probably shoots his .243 fifty times a year. Every year one deer one bullet. No need for semi-automatic rifles in civilian use.

Jimmy W
02-16-2018, 09:48 PM
A person could just as easily have done the same amount of damage with a pistol, it's not about AR-15s, stop making it about AR-15s, it makes you sound ignorant. This is simply about firearm proliferation, our country's lack of maturity, and it's aversion to thoughtfulness. None of these things are curable within the foreseeable future.

My solution; the feds should take the authority of making laws surrounding firearms away from states. It should track every gun from when it comes off the assembly line to when it is melted down for scrap. If a firearm is used in committing a violent act, life in prison. If a gun owner is negligent and that negligence results in someone else getting hurt or killed, mandatory 10 year sentence, even if it's their child, heck, especially if it's their child who was hurt or killed. We just had a 15 year old in a nearby town die because his friend's father left his shotgun out and they decided to play Russian roulette. Also, ban all semi and full-auto, magazine fed firearms. Leaving revolvers and bolt-action, break open and lever-action to hunters and carry permit holders. There must be two locks on a gun at all times unless it's on your body. A locked case or safe and a trigger lock. Give doctors the power to revoke permits and have police confiscate weapons.

Upside to gun owners, after they are registered and permitted, they can take their firearm to any state.

The Parkland shooter wasn't old enough to buy a handgun, but was old enough to buy an AR and it is harder to shoot accurately with a handgun. Also he probably would have had to reload more often with a handgun.

DMillet
02-16-2018, 11:28 PM
A person could just as easily have done the same amount of damage with a pistol, it's not about AR-15s, stop making it about AR-15s, it makes you sound ignorant. This is simply about firearm proliferation, our country's lack of maturity, and it's aversion to thoughtfulness. None of these things are curable within the foreseeable future.

My solution; the feds should take the authority of making laws surrounding firearms away from states. It should track every gun from when it comes off the assembly line to when it is melted down for scrap. If a firearm is used in committing a violent act, life in prison. If a gun owner is negligent and that negligence results in someone else getting hurt or killed, mandatory 10 year sentence, even if it's their child, heck, especially if it's their child who was hurt or killed. We just had a 15 year old in a nearby town die because his friend's father left his shotgun out and they decided to play Russian roulette. Also, ban all semi and full-auto, magazine fed firearms. Leaving revolvers and bolt-action, break open and lever-action to hunters and carry permit holders. There must be two locks on a gun at all times unless it's on your body. A locked case or safe and a trigger lock. Give doctors the power to revoke permits and have police confiscate weapons.

Upside to gun owners, after they are registered and permitted, they can take their firearm to any state.

I agree with everything you say here. I'm a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. Nothing you say here is objectionable to me. This is what it means to be a RESPONSIBLE gun owner.

Ted Hoppe
02-17-2018, 12:43 AM
The gun lobby social network is too well organized. There is not great man/woman leader capable of changing the status quo and able to knock the legs from gun lovers social network. It is the phenomenon of our times - that the greatest social leaders are beyond state interaction and yet incapable of giving social critism that can change the direction of our own faulty leadership.

Currently in the United States we can only have profound sadness, rage, disappointment and eventual of acceptance of our situation. The majorities who could agree that semi and automatic guns are a plague can't get anything passed over the collective gun coalition and moneyed network.

Gib Etheridge
02-17-2018, 12:54 AM
It will only work if the firearms are confiscated. How are you going to do that?

L.W. Baxter
02-17-2018, 01:04 AM
It will only work if the firearms are confiscated. How are you going to do that?

Giant magnet.

Portland
02-17-2018, 01:19 AM
Its quite simple really , its been done before.
But if you sorry lot are just going to accept the status quo , then I expect you deserve what you get !.
Slaughter of your innocents , kids in your schools , concert goers , theatre goers.
There is NOBODY , NOBODY to blame but yourselves.
Over and out.
Rob J.

Joe (SoCal)
02-17-2018, 01:41 AM
It will only work if the firearms are confiscated. How are you going to do that?

Easy extremely lucrative buy back programs. Hand in ANY AR-15 before the gun ban goes into effect get $2,000 cash no questions asked. The money expended would be less than the stupid wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for.

PeterSibley
02-17-2018, 01:43 AM
Probably the only person who could do it is Trump, the Right trust him and might even see the point if he suggested sane restriction and checks.

A wild eyed dream .... is it possible ?

Sam Squatch
02-17-2018, 01:47 AM
It probably feels different *this time* to you, Joe, because you're in SoCal. North of you in Redneck Land, I have not heard a single word about the shooting, or guns. I'm guessing that correlates to the amount of soul searching and political pontificating that's happening in our respective locales.

hawkeye54
02-17-2018, 04:40 AM
I was scheduled for " Active Shooter" and "Workplace Violence" training Friday by my employer - it was tough to get thru while thinking of the kids and parents in Parkland. Strange, the way our culture has evolved (devolved).


Rick

LeeG
02-17-2018, 09:14 AM
I was scheduled for " Active Shooter" and "Workplace Violence" training Friday by my employer - it was tough to get thru while thinking of the kids and parents in Parkland. Strange, the way our culture has evolved (devolved).


Rick

I wonder if insurance companies offer incentives to present these. Last year the business landlord invited tenants to a seminar and the idea was revolting, except it’s something that has gone through my head given the rare disturbed person who comes through the door.

Paul Pless
02-17-2018, 09:25 AM
tipping point

oh ****, i better order me another ar or two quick

McMike
02-17-2018, 09:26 AM
A November 2012 Congressional Research Service report found that, as of 2009, there were approximately 310 million firearms in the United States: “114 million handguns, 110 million rifles, and 86 million shotguns.” However, author William J. Krouse went on to note that “data are not available on the number of ‘assault weapons’ in private possession or available for sale, but one study estimated that 1.5 million assault weapons were privately owned in 1994.” (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/20/assault_rifle_stats_how_many_assault_rifles_are_th ere_in_america.html)

That would be $3 Billion on Assault rifles alone Joe. And, as I said to you before, stop focusing on ARs, it makes you sound stupid and like you're simply covering the "talking points" instead of really trying to understand the problem. An intent killer can go to a local shop and buy a pair of used Glock 17s with 6 17 round magazines and a few hundred 9mm rounds for less than $1000 and do as much or more damage in any crowded area, none of these mass shootings, outside of the Las Vegas incident, occurs where the killer is more than 15 feet away from his victims. It's not about the platform, the AR style carbine is flashy, it attracts the person looking for the projection of power but if it didn't exist, their are 100 other models and configurations that would do the same thing. It's about semi-auto, this is the capability, coupled with large magazine capacity, that allows would-be killers to do so much damage. And lets face it, we can go a lot further with addressing mental illness and the societal ills which are drivers in these cases, but that alone will never capture all of the potential mass killers. Also, while horrifying on it's own, mass shootings don't make up the majority of gun deaths in this country. The proliferation of firearms is the single solvable problem that will have the biggest impact in stopping gun deaths.

I also want to address a few things.

A person or group of people will never be able to successfully oppose the government with ARs, it's simply not a reality. If the government was intent on suppressing us and was willing to kill it's own people indiscriminately, we wouldn't be able to stop it by force.

Any firearm that can shoot a projectile through my walls in my home and through my neighbors walls, infringes upon my neighbors right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It's simply unconstitutional and the notion that protecting your home with anything but bird shot in a shot gun or a roofing hammer should be extinguished with the full force of the law. For clarification; any person who discharges a firearm in their home that is capable of killing a person in the next house over or on the street from inside the house should go to jail.

Keith Wilson
02-17-2018, 09:37 AM
It's about semi-auto, this is the capability, coupled with large magazine capacity, that allows would-be killers to do so much damage.Excellent point. ARs are popular among the deranged because they look so macho, but focusing on one particular model rather what it can do is silly.

Joe, I expect you're partly right - but you're in urban southern California. This has always been a rural-urban divide. But the country becomes more urban every year.

JimD
02-17-2018, 09:42 AM
https://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27857891_1598814670209908_3924344987533870145_n.jp g?oh=572c6aa3989a6d7b98c766d4d78c734f&oe=5B15B54C

CK 17
02-17-2018, 09:45 AM
OK I may be completely wrong but I'm sensing a tipping point. I hear ANGER from people about this last shooting. It's one of those times when all of a sudden things flip. Like with Gay Marriage, for years it was NO WAY IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN. Then one day it just happened.

I'm hearing a deafening outrage this time around. Sad that Sandy Hook wasn't the straw that broke the back of the NRA lobby but I get a feeling it's coming. After that, maybe decent, intelligent gun laws and reform will finally be possible.

Somehow this time I'm feeling hopeful even amidst this silly administration.

Does anyone get the same vibe ?
No, your not the only one. Just this morning, a Florida Republican congressman when asked “why does anyone need an AR-15 in their home?” Responded, “they don’t”. People are angry. These kids are pissed. There planning a nation wide walkout on twitter. That will keep the outrage alive if it’s big. I’m not sure how quick it will happen being an election year, but momentum is shifting.

McMike
02-17-2018, 09:56 AM
IF YOU SIMPLY BAN ARs, YOU ARE NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM!

Tell me; what is an AR?

McMike
02-17-2018, 10:01 AM
Is this an assault rifle? Or, are you simply talking the "AR" platform?

http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/prodimages/14497-DEFAULT-l.jpg

Because this^ rifle is this rifle:

http://imagineimagery.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p847796427-5.jpg

Neither are "AR"s but both are assault rifles. These are, in fact, the same rifle.

Paul Pless
02-17-2018, 10:04 AM
neither one of those is an assault rifle. . .


Is this an assault rifle? Or, are you simply talking the "AR" platform?

http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/prodimages/14497-DEFAULT-l.jpg

Because this^ rifle is this rifle:

http://imagineimagery.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p847796427-5.jpg

Neither are "AR"s but both are assault rifles. These are, in fact, the same rifle.

McMike
02-17-2018, 10:15 AM
neither one of those is an assault rifle. . .

Technically a SAW by their original design. The M1A is semi-auto only but soldiers found its older brother, the M14 were unwieldy in full auto, however, very effective in semi. The M14 platform is still in use by the military today.

It is, loosely, and Assault rifle Paul, but if you want to get into wonky semantics, you are right. The M1 Garand, the father of both, was a "full-powered rifle" and the M14 and M1A still retain the full sized cartridge but were/are an evolutionary middle ground.


An assault rifle is a selective-fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. Assault rifles were first used during World War II.Though Western nations were slow to accept the assault rifle concept, by the end of the 20th century they had become the standard weapon in most of the world's armies, replacing full-powered rifles and sub-machine guns in most roles.Examples include the StG 44, AK-47 and the M16 rifle.

Technically, because the commercial AR platform is Semi only, it's not an assault rifle either. We are forced to use buzz words, deal with it.

LeeG
02-17-2018, 10:16 AM
Looking at the news about a highschool walkout I can see a tipping point of sorts but it’ll be a decade before that means something.

McMike
02-17-2018, 10:19 AM
Looking at the news about a highschool walkout I can see a tipping point of sorts but it’ll be a decade before that means something.

I agree, IF the walk-out is significant enough, it will be a nice starting point but certainly only still the prologue.

CK 17
02-17-2018, 10:25 AM
Is this an assault rifle? Or, are you simply talking the "AR" platform?

http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/prodimages/14497-DEFAULT-l.jpg

Because this^ rifle is this rifle:

http://imagineimagery.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p847796427-5.jpg

Neither are "AR"s but both are assault rifles. These are, in fact, the same rifle.

i see where your going. This is the beginning of a line of argument that leads to we shouldn’t do anything. We should do something. We ban, confiscat and destroy what the current political will will allow. Then we reevaluate, and if necessary, ban confiscate and destroy more guns. We keep going till the massacres stop.

ill give you an example of how laws can make us safer. In 2009 there was a crash in Buffalo, it killed a lot of people. There was an outcry of inexperienced crew. The laws were changed to require more experienced crew. This drove up the average experience in the industry. The interesting thing about the new law was that the crew that crashed in Buffalo would have still been legal. Nevertheless, the law worked. That has been the last crash in this country.

McMike
02-17-2018, 10:56 AM
i see where your going. This is the beginning of a line of argument that leads to we shouldn’t do anything. We should do something. We ban, confiscat and destroy what the current political will will allow. Then we reevaluate, and if necessary, ban confiscate and destroy more guns. We keep going till the massacres stop.

No, we as a country need to ban that which has no real value to the 2nd amendment and to society. All semi-autos must go, IMO. All, magazine feed arms must go. No grandfathering, and family heirlooms should be filled with molten steel.


ill give you an example of how laws can make us safer. In 2009 there was a crash in Buffalo, it killed a lot of people. There was an outcry of inexperienced crew. The laws were changed to require more experienced crew. This drove up the average experience in the industry. The interesting thing about the new law was that the crew that crashed in Buffalo would have still been legal. Nevertheless, the law worked. That has been the last crash in this country.

That's interesting. It is probably the way that we will go with this issue, if we do anything at all.

Paul Pless
02-17-2018, 11:05 AM
No, we as a country need to ban that which has no real value to the 2nd amendment and to society. All semi-autos must go, IMO. All, magazine feed arms must go. No grandfathering, and family heirlooms should be filled with molten steel. i disagree

i support licensing based upon passage of a criminal background check, mental health survey, training, proven competency, safe storage, and insurance

you pass these tests every two or four years and you can own whatever you like

you get caught with an unregistered gun or you don't have a license you go to prison

if one of your own guns is used in crime or even accidental injury or death through your negligence you go to prison

McMike
02-17-2018, 11:12 AM
i disagree

i support licensing based upon passage of a criminal background check, mental health survey, training, proven competency, safe storage, and insurance

you pass these tests every two or four years and you can own whatever you like

you get caught with an unregistered gun or you don't have a license you go to prison

if one of your own guns is used in crime or even accidental injury or death through your negligence you go to prison

That'd be a great start Paul. I like my Idea better for a lot of reasons but something like what you propose is a great start. I think you have to agree that the only way for your idea to work is to nationalize firearm laws, taking it away from states and creating the dreaded national database.

wizbang 13
02-17-2018, 11:17 AM
If one ever visits right wing Facebook groups , reads some of their comments, dips their toe into the tar by argueing with/confronting them....one does not get the feeling they are at a tipping point.

McMike
02-17-2018, 11:20 AM
If one ever visits right wing Facebook groups , reads some of their comments, dips their toe into the tar by argueing with/confronting them....one does not get the feeling they are at a tipping point.

Exactly true. The NRA is silent ATM because they are seeing gun sales go up and membership increase as we type. This is their golden goose, for every mass shooting, they get richer. They love this sh17. They are terrorists as are their members.

LeeG
02-17-2018, 02:34 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/mass-shooting-attention/img/google-index.jpg?c=cf4b807abee5619664cff89a7c63119f63f0d2 b8-1518800079

but if a politician proposed a 25 cent fuel tax people would be pegging the meter. Priorities.

skuthorp
02-17-2018, 03:07 PM
I reckon you can be assured that the blood tax will continue to be paid. There's a deal of investment involved in it's continuance.

Arizona Bay
02-17-2018, 04:29 PM
There is hope...

Preach it Emma!


https://youtu.be/JMxG0reODQY

skuthorp
02-17-2018, 04:36 PM
Good luck there………….
and that girl had better watch her back.

In about a week the shooting will be being dissed as propaganda, and that it didn't actually happen.

Arizona Bay
02-17-2018, 04:56 PM
Good luck there………….
and that girl had better watch her back.

In about a week the shooting will be being dissed as propaganda, and that it didn't actually happen.


It begins with the children.



The lunatics are already calling it a hoax, with paid trauma actors...:rolleyes:

Portland
02-17-2018, 10:21 PM
i disagree

i support licensing based upon passage of a criminal background check, mental health survey, training, proven competency, safe storage, and insurance

you pass these tests every two or four years and you can own whatever you like

you get caught with an unregistered gun or you don't have a license you go to prison

if one of your own guns is used in crime or even accidental injury or death through your negligence you go to prison

Yes , that would work Paul , its pretty much what happens here.
The only thing is that yes , nothing is completely banned , but it is really really hard to qualify to be licensed to own some weapons.
Another thing here , is that if you have unregistered weapons , are unlicenced , then yes , you go to jail.
And then , if you are a dual citizen , you will be deported.
THAT apparently is what the crims with dual citizenship fear most.
Australian states have passed laws that criminals can have their houses/cars searched at any time .
If weapons are found (since they aren't licensed) it is a criminal offence , and off to the can they go.
Do the right thing , and you can have and keep appropriate weapons , properly stored.
Rob J.

wizbang 13
02-17-2018, 10:52 PM
Is this the 4/20 student walk out , (#48),?
Oh I hope that catches fire . I give the youth credit for ending Vietnam ( the war).Something new may light this fuse.

CK 17
02-18-2018, 09:24 AM
Prominent Republican Donor Issues Ultimatum on Assault Weapons

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/us/prominent-republican-donor-issues-ultimatum-on-assault-weapons.html?ribbon-ad-idx=15&rref=us&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=U.S.&pgtype=article (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/us/prominent-republican-donor-issues-ultimatum-on-assault-weapons.html?ribbon-ad-idx=15&rref=us&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=U.S.&pgtype=article)

StevenBauer
02-18-2018, 10:01 AM
https://i.imgur.com/yhfMJkh.jpg

Art Haberland
02-18-2018, 10:17 AM
11264

As I pointed out on a differing site. The only reasons one would choose the AR over the Ruger are Price and looks. The Ruger, like most weapons designed and sold by that storied company is better made than the AR. While their capabilities are the same, the Ruger looks like an "old man's rifle" that their Father or Grandfather would have used, but the AR is a wannabe M16 that is meant to be intimidating looking. If you walk around an open carry state with the Ruger, you will get a few nods from aficionados, but every one will know you mean "business" by carrying the AR around your neck.

Face it, the only reason to buy an AR is so you can dream your "red dawn" fantasies of saving the nation from an invading army.

StevenBauer
02-18-2018, 10:20 AM
https://i.redd.it/alyjmk8fbyg01.jpg

LeeG
02-18-2018, 10:26 AM
presidential

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-florida-shooting-visit-20180217-story.html

At the sheriff's office, his team told the assembled media it would be quicker than one minute for a photo spray. Instead, Trump asked everyone around the table to introduce themselves and explain what they did. Many talked of their journeys into the blood-spattered school or their hunt for the suspect.

Trump thanked them all, and some of them praised the president for praising law enforcement officers and defending them.

At the end, Michael Leonard, the officer who found the gunman and handcuffed him, gave a 15-second soliloquy explaining his actions.

The president was not satisfied, so he elaborated for the officer:

"That was so modest, I would have told it much differently," Trump said. "I would have said without me, they never would have found him."

StevenBauer
02-18-2018, 10:27 AM
https://i.redd.it/9yphy4lmjzg01.jpg

LeeG
02-18-2018, 10:30 AM
https://i.redd.it/alyjmk8fbyg01.jpg

too many choices, now is not the time.

JimD
02-18-2018, 11:02 AM
https://agingmillennialengineer.wordpress.com/2018/02/15/fuck-you-i-like-guns-2/

KMacDonald
02-18-2018, 11:53 AM
It's funny how people think laws stop crimes. Murder is illegal but murder still happens. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gerarddm
02-18-2018, 12:46 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27972755_10155908900506480_4320772358357664754_n.j pg?oh=6afcbd4e8caccf778628eccb211ced0f&oe=5B175056

KMacDonald
02-18-2018, 12:51 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27972755_10155908900506480_4320772358357664754_n.j pg?oh=6afcbd4e8caccf778628eccb211ced0f&oe=5B175056

Oh that's so cute. I'm convinced now. Not!!!!!!!!!!

Norman Bernstein
02-18-2018, 12:52 PM
It's funny how people think laws stop crimes. Murder is illegal but murder still happens. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

The very same juvenile rationalization could be used to argue for NO laws at all. After all, all laws are occasionally broken, so why bother to have ANY laws whatsoever?

This is what you get from primitive minds.

ron ll
02-18-2018, 12:56 PM
11276

Osborne Russell
02-18-2018, 01:01 PM
It's funny how people think laws stop crimes. Murder is illegal but murder still happens. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do we have laws then?

KMacDonald
02-18-2018, 01:01 PM
The very same juvenile rationalization could be used to argue for NO laws at all. After all, all laws are occasionally broken, so why bother to have ANY laws whatsoever?

This is what you get from primitive minds.
But it's not.
That is what you get from extreme rationalizations from extremists.

Art Haberland
02-18-2018, 01:42 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/behold-the-four-month-process-of-buying-a-gun-in-japan/2017/10/05/72283fea-2375-11e7-b503-9d616bd5a305_story.html?utm_term=.1f76c0670f32

L.W. Baxter
02-18-2018, 01:44 PM
Without laws, there is no crime.

Art Haberland
02-18-2018, 01:46 PM
Most laws are nothing but the codified mores of a society. So even if the laws were not written down, you could still be tried and punished for murder.

birlinn
02-18-2018, 01:51 PM
Oh that's so cute. I'm convinced now. Not!!!!!!!!!!
Sadly, I don't think your return here has improved the forum.

KMacDonald
02-18-2018, 01:56 PM
Sadly, I don't think your return here has improved the forum.
Don't think, you're not good at it.
Who are you anyway?

Joe (SoCal)
02-18-2018, 02:02 PM
Without laws, there is no crime.

F'in BRILLIANT Y>Y> |;)

birlinn
02-18-2018, 02:10 PM
Don't think, you're not good at it.
Who are you anyway?

Hopefully, nobody you would want to know.

wizbang 13
02-18-2018, 03:18 PM
Un welcome back kmac

KMacDonald
02-18-2018, 04:08 PM
Un welcome back kmac
Thanks.

Osborne Russell
02-18-2018, 05:15 PM
Most laws are nothing but the codified mores of a society. So even if the laws were not written down, you could still be tried and punished for murder.

Punished, anyway.

Osborne Russell
02-18-2018, 05:47 PM
Without laws, there is no crime.

:d And both sides do it, so it's not wrong !

StevenBauer
02-18-2018, 09:29 PM
https://i.redd.it/z5zkibtozzg01.jpg

Portland
02-19-2018, 12:34 AM
I'm backing the kids.
I reckon they , their families and their friends will get other kids voting , and ALL of those in Politics will have to take real notice.
Social media will do you old phart gun huggers in, even the Ruskies won't be able to help you .
The rule of law , that will finally sort you lot out.
And if you don't like it , you are fresh meat in the can.
Rob J.