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tomandersonbrown
01-31-2018, 06:19 PM
Hi All!

I am interested in building the Bruce Conklin (http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Oar/BruceConklin.html) for goofing around on Wisconsin's lakes and rivers with two friends and fly rods.

I intend to build it with solid wood lapstrake.

The design length is 15' 6". I would like to consider extending the length to 17' 6" and I have a couple of questions.

First, how much more difficult and expensive will it be to find planks long enough to utilize on a boat of this length? Is an 18' board much more readily available than a 16' board?

Second, is it silly to think I'd scarf the planks to get the necessary length?

This will be my first experience building a boat, but I've done quite a lot of woodworking with hand tools and power tools.

Thanks!
Tom

Peerie Maa
01-31-2018, 06:50 PM
Scarfing is dead easy. I would recommend scarfing the planks below the tuck that land on the stern post as they will be easier to fit in two pieces.
Furthermore, where the planks are curved, putting them in in two lengths will lessen grain run out if you are buying straight lumber rather than having a curved log sawn belly up.
http://www.duck-trap.com/planks.GIF

tomandersonbrown
01-31-2018, 08:12 PM
Thanks for the info! I’m not familiar with what the “tuck” is. Nor the stern post. Can you please elaborate?

Gratefully,
Tom

Peerie Maa
02-01-2018, 04:30 AM
Thanks for the info! I’m not familiar with what the “tuck” is. Nor the stern post. Can you please elaborate?

Gratefully,
Tom

The stern post is the post at the back that is equivalent to the stem at the front.
The tuck is the area where the plank flares out around the bottom of the transom from vertical on the stern post.
http://www.littlerivermarine.com/rowing-store/images/products/detail_56_thumb_56_teak.mjpg.jpg

http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Oar/images/BruceConklin-2.gif

I suggest that you beg borrow or buy a copy of https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clinker-Boatbuilding-John-Leather/dp/0713636432/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1517477486&sr=1-10&keywords=john+leather

Falcon1
02-01-2018, 07:47 AM
I'll look forward to following your progress. Seems like a great first boat. Scarfing is not that hard, and even kinda fun.
As Nick points out, you can scarph the two pieces together at a slight angle that somewhat matches the curve of your intended plank, to eliminate waste and grain runout.

Good luck!

Mike

schoonerjay
02-01-2018, 09:03 AM
I'll also follow along! The design detail is a lovely read, and I appreciate the notes on balance - if you stretch the design two feet I would guess it's important to maintain the same relative thwart positions to keep the same balance. As an aside, I'm not sure you'll be able to get an 18' plank to go from stem to transom on a 17' 6" boat when accounting for the beam. You'll likely want to trim off the ends of stock plank due to checking and other defects, giving you an even shorter plank. You can certainly get lengths in the 20' to 24' range depending on your local suppliers but for quite a bit more cost, and as others above have pointed out scarfing provides advantages especially to a modern-day builder.

Good luck and have fun!

BOI
02-01-2018, 09:10 AM
Wow, ambitious first project but I'm sure it will turn out to be an awesome boat.

Having at least one, but often even more scarfs in each plank over the length of the boat is the norm in the Nordic lapstrake boats. There are a several different ways the scarfing can be done. Sometimes just a short scarf reinforced by a block on the inside, but in that case I think it is necessary to have many ribs/frames.

Scarfs in real wood planking need to be staggered along the boat; having two in the same place on adjacent planks generates a weak spot in the hull. The traditional boats of Sunnmore, a region in Norway, had some very "creative" planking and scarfing. This made for a flexible boat but the type was abandoned and replaced with another boat type due to the weak spots.

tomandersonbrown
02-01-2018, 10:35 AM
Thanks for the info and encouragement everyone. It does perhaps seem ambitious but I'm not expecting it to go quickly or look perfect. It's in the doing, right? Boats two, three, and four will be better than boat number one.

As regards maintaining the relative thwart positions in extending the length, my though was to take the center of the boat (midships) and extend fore and aft by whatever ratio is required to gain 2 feet in length. This extension will be applied equally to each station to maintain proportions.

I've got the John Leather book on order. Found it used on Amazon for $6. Thanks for the tip!

DeniseO30
02-01-2018, 11:44 AM
The is is no reason to not build it in plywood lapstrake. May last longer and be leak free, It would serve better for the recreational use that most boats are built for now. https://www.amazon.com/Clinker-Plywood-Boatbuilding-Manual-Oughtred/dp/0937822612#reader_0937822612

Planks will be drying and swelling.. many times over the mostly in storage life such boats have. Now if she were to be wet 95% of her life. Traditional planking would be great.

I'd not suggest stretching a 15ft boat as a first build when there are any number of rowing boats that are in the 17-20 range.

You may also consider a fly fishing cobble! (I have a love for for line casting too ) just can't seem to get back to the streams anymore!

I'm slowly restoring what is a called a "Delaware Ducker" that will be perfect for fly fishing. She's traditional lapstrake

Welcome aboard!

Peerie Maa
02-01-2018, 11:57 AM
Denise is right. Real wood boats do not like getting really wet and then drying out. So you either need to keep them in the water or haul them out each evening and put them under cover to keep the rain off.

tomandersonbrown
02-01-2018, 12:06 PM
Right. I could either keep it in the water at a slip on the lake across the street from my house, or keep it on a trailer after using it each time. Either way, I love real boards and plan to build it using real boards!

I appreciate the input.

Those Cobles are beautiful boats! Might just be boat number two...

David G
02-01-2018, 12:07 PM
My first thought is about that much stretching. Growing in 15.5' boat by two feet is getting potentially problematic anyway. And that boat is already a splinter. Can you not find an existing design that is the lenghth you want? I'd also suggest you consider glued plywood lapstrake - for reasons of weight and practicality. But if you're dead set on working with solid lumber - for the joy of it - then carry on.

Here's one list of available boat plans --

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/plansindex.htm

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/plansindex/pullingboats.htm

And a list of designers --

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/designers.htm

You haven't given us a full design brief, but from what you've said so far, I'd be thinking of the Lutra Laker --

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/designs/laker/index.htm

DeniseO30
02-01-2018, 12:17 PM
There is a boat builder using mastic between the laps on his lapstrake builds for the same reasons of how planks dry and "take up" (swell)

DeniseO30
02-01-2018, 01:05 PM
Right. I could either keep it in the water at a slip on the lake across the street from my house, or keep it on a trailer after using it each time. Either way, I love real boards and plan to build it using real boards!

I appreciate the input.

Those Cobles are beautiful boats! Might just be boat number two...Ducker https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180201/f8a23eface01669761a868172c376b5d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180201/ac6e4c74b5f4d2e7960b2fb3b2a0363e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180201/0eed5656bc9fd77c7b16b2b27b3b6c38.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180201/d5200ea704126abc8da7cd0787bc95c7.jpg

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rbgarr
02-01-2018, 01:40 PM
Given your interest in fly-fishing with three people, I'd suggest a wider, longer boat like Peregrine at 18' by 4'. It has a flatter bottom for a bit more stability when standing to cast, and carries her width aft to the transom which will support a third person's weight or gear better. David Brooks, the designer/builder is also available for consultation during the build, which is VERY helpful. (Atkin plans are somewhat sketchy about details from what I hear.) http://www.brooksboatsdesigns.com/BrooksBoatsDesignsplans/Peregrine/peregrine.html

tomandersonbrown
02-01-2018, 04:00 PM
That Peregrine is a handsome craft!

Peerie Maa
02-01-2018, 05:41 PM
Given your interest in fly-fishing with three people, I'd suggest a wider, longer boat like Peregrine at 18' by 4'. It has a flatter bottom for a bit more stability when standing to cast, and carries her width aft to the transom which will support a third person's weight or gear better. David Brooks, the designer/builder is also available for consultation during the build, which is VERY helpful. (Atkin plans are somewhat sketchy about details from what I hear.) http://www.brooksboatsdesigns.com/BrooksBoatsDesignsplans/Peregrine/peregrine.html

This boat was developed for fly fishing and is a lot easier to build.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/sel-14rodfishingcoble.htm (http://www.selway-fisher.com) offers a "rod fishing" coble.
http://www.selway-fisher.com/rodcob14D1.gif



[ 08-05-2004, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

rbgarr
02-02-2018, 03:55 AM
This boat was developed for fly fishing and is a lot easier to build.

The 15' coble is nice and I really like the Hartford 18'!

tomandersonbrown
02-02-2018, 10:54 AM
Thanks to all for the input on the choice of boat. I think I'm set on the Bruce Conklin, but I've decided I'll keep it at the plan length of 15'6".

Crazy as it may sound, I'm interested in building this boat to learn how to build a clinker boat made of solid wood. Plywood has its place in boat building I'm sure. And more optimal designs for fly fishing certainly exist. But I'm in it to learn how to build a solid wood clinker, and will hope to enjoy it cutting through the water under oar power.

The plans have been shipped. Copies of John Leather's Clinker Boatbuilding (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0877420300/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and Walter J. Simmons' Lapstrake Boat Building: Vol 2 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0877421277/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) are on their way. When the weather turns warmer I'll get to lofting, pull out the band saw, and start building!

DeniseO30
02-02-2018, 11:02 AM
http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Oar/images/bruceC.png
I don't think you can do badly on any build you choose and
Spiling a plank is the same in wood or plywood.

Good luck!

Looking at the photo... Hey Nick? move the bow forward? Oh about. 6"?

Peerie Maa
02-02-2018, 11:25 AM
http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Oar/images/bruceC.png


Looking at the photo... Hey Nick? move the bow forward? Oh about. 6"?

The lines drawing looks nicer, less angular.
http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Oar/images/BruceConklin-2.gif

DeniseO30
02-02-2018, 11:47 AM
The lines drawing looks nicer, less angular.
http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Oar/images/BruceConklin-2.gifTom you have a source for White Cedar? in Wisconsin assuming that's where you're at

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tomandersonbrown
02-02-2018, 01:35 PM
Tom you have a source for White Cedar? in Wisconsin assuming that's where you're at

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Denise,

I haven’t started investigating white cedar suppliers. There is a mill not too far away and I once bought a log from them for greenwood chair making. I would imagine they could help me out.

If anyone has any suggestions for Wisconsin or Northern Illinois suppliers I’m all ears!


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DeniseO30
02-02-2018, 02:20 PM
Denise,

I haven’t started investigating white cedar suppliers. There is a mill not too far away and I once bought a log from them for greenwood chair making. I would imagine they could help me out.

If anyone has any suggestions for Wisconsin or Northern Illinois suppliers I’m all ears!


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt's really great for boat building especially lapstrake. people think; "Eh, red cedar white cedar but they are very very different from each other.

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tomandersonbrown
02-07-2018, 10:54 AM
It's really great for boat building especially lapstrake. people think; "Eh, red cedar white cedar but they are very very different from each other.

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I have found a white cedar source, in Duluth, Minnesota. It is called http://truenorthcedar.com/.

Plans are due to arrive any day! I'll close this thread and start a new build thread once I get lofting.

Gib Etheridge
02-07-2018, 11:26 AM
Get your lumber as soon as possible, it will need time to dry.

tomandersonbrown
02-07-2018, 12:05 PM
They air dry it for six months. How long in total should it dry prior to planking?

Gib Etheridge
02-07-2018, 12:18 PM
Roughly 1 year for each inch of thickness under cover and well ventilated on stickers.

DeniseO30
02-07-2018, 01:14 PM
Roughly 1 year for each inch of thickness under cover and well ventilated on stickers.What thickness do the plans call for on the planking? I'm sure others will vary in opinion, in but I've always taken Saw Mill Lumber and try to mill it to about 25% of the final size. White Cedar doesn't seem to move a whole lot.

tomandersonbrown
02-07-2018, 01:54 PM
What thickness do the plans call for on the planking? I'm sure others will vary in opinion, in but I've always taken Saw Mill Lumber and try to mill it to about 25% of the final size. White Cedar doesn't seem to move a whole lot.

I'll know when the plans arrive. I'm guessing 3/8 to 1/2 inch. I'm hoping to get 4/4 (1" thick) lumber and will use a band saw to rip into 1/2" board, then mill down to finished thickness.

DeniseO30
02-07-2018, 02:08 PM
I love to book match re-sawn parts & planks when ever I can. On larger boats of course it wouldn't matter as much on planking. I'm about start on my wood canvas canoe new canvas project that's been sitting 4 years now. in the basement shop. (just fits behind the table saw and in front of the chimney in the basement. new winter is still hanging tough out this way. And my Ducker has to stay outside.

Peerie Maa
02-07-2018, 02:16 PM
I love to book match re-sawn parts & planks when ever I can. On larger boats of course it wouldn't matter as much on planking. I'm about start on my wood canvas canoe new canvas project that's been sitting 4 years now. in the basement shop. (just fits behind the table saw and in front of the chimney in the basement. new winter is still hanging tough out this way. And my Ducker has to stay outside.

I knew a couple of older generation boat builders who spiled onto thick boards, cut to the spiled lines, and then ripped down to make a pair of planks. One of the two also spoke of using the offcuts from the spiling to make risers and rails etc, thereby avoiding waste.

DeniseO30
02-07-2018, 03:01 PM
I knew a couple of older generation boat builders who spiled onto thick boards, cut to the spiled lines, and then ripped down to make a pair of planks. One of the two also spoke of using the offcuts from the spiling to make risers and rails etc, thereby avoiding waste.The cost of lumber all that makes perfect sense.

Nick do people ever steam and pre-curve larger planks before they spile the pattern on? Given that wider planks are getting difficult to obtain

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Peerie Maa
02-07-2018, 03:06 PM
The cost of lumber all that makes perfect sense.

Nick do people ever steam and pre-curve larger planks before they spile the pattern on? Given that wider planks are getting difficult to obtain

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Never heard of it, but that does not mean No.
I know one builder that did edge set planks to utilise too narrow stock. He said that if he could edge set the spiling batten he knew that he could edge set the plank. It is easier with a new build than with a repair or with the shutter plank.

Gib Etheridge
02-07-2018, 06:24 PM
The cost of lumber all that makes perfect sense.

Nick do people ever steam and pre-curve larger planks before they spile the pattern on? Given that wider planks are getting difficult to obtain

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I wasn't going to complicate things, but since you've asked...

I have strip built individual planks.

You would want to make a girder type pattern and use it as a template to lay up the strips on the bench. No grain runout that way, and it's a great way to use up narrow stock.

Regarding resawing to get 2 of 3/8" from 1", it won't work, you'll need to start with 5/4".

Nick's suggestion to get 2 identical planks, one for each side, is a good one, saves spiling since you only have to do it once. For that to work though you will need to pay lots of attention to making sure both sides are identical.