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View Full Version : Rape - just so we're clear



David G
01-27-2018, 10:15 PM
Here's what a few Republican leaders have to say --

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26907482_1249513195192898_3823693364242521976_n.pn g?oh=dd034735e016e59e8912170f29ccefd9&oe=5B1E7BB1

George Jung
01-27-2018, 10:18 PM
Wow. Abysmal.

CWSmith
01-27-2018, 10:36 PM
It is clear that people like this exist. What bothers me most is that there are people who follow this thinking and vote for them. It's beyond evil.

LeeG
01-27-2018, 10:38 PM
David what the hell are you doing?

webishop14
01-27-2018, 10:41 PM
Before our brush gets too broad, I'd like to point out that Republicans don't have a monopoly on retarded thinking. It just seems that more of them congregate around conservative modes of thought. (I do recall that there are some conservative Democrats.)

David G
01-27-2018, 10:41 PM
David what the hell are you doing?

Finishing up dinner?

Could you be more explicit?

David G
01-28-2018, 12:04 AM
Before our brush gets too broad, I'd like to point out that Republicans don't have a monopoly on retarded thinking. It just seems that more of them congregate around conservative modes of thought. (I do recall that there are some conservative Democrats.)

I don't think there are very many conservative Democrats these days. Likewise, liberal Republicans. We have become far too polarized, and the right has swung way too far to the right, for such cross-fertilization to be manageable.

But you make a good point. Not ALL Republicans share such deplorable attitudes toward rape and such. But a lot of their leaders do, and far too large a % of the rank-and-file do. And not many on the left do. So I think it's fair to ascribe such troglodyte attitudes to the Republican Party side of things.

To illustrate the general acceptance by Republicans of such attitudes: think back to when each of these lovley bon mots was uttered. There was some outrage and condemnation, right? How much of that chiding... came from Republicans?

Chip-skiff
01-28-2018, 02:31 AM
One characteristic of Republicans these days is that they are scared to say what they actually think, mostly because they realize how awful it sounds. So they learn a lot of lying dog-whistle euphemisms.

Those quoted were either stupid or oblivious, which can be the effect of living in a Republican bubble.

WX
01-28-2018, 03:02 AM
The stats on how many men think it's okay to give the little woman a slap is quite staggering.

Canoeyawl
01-28-2018, 05:38 AM
Where are our "defenders of the deplorable"?

ishmael
01-28-2018, 07:18 AM
Politicians of all stripes, being human, say silly, at times downright ugly, things.

For example, I wonder what impact, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" had on young people?

"You mean oral sex isn't really sex!? That's great!"

Without excusing any of the statements referenced, some context. Context is always good.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/rapequotes.asp

LeeG
01-28-2018, 07:41 AM
Finishing up dinner?

Could you be more explicit?

Just wondering what was behind the bundles of threads in a few minutes .

Tom Wilkinson
01-28-2018, 07:53 AM
Politicians of all stripes, being human, say silly, at times downright ugly, things.

For example, I wonder what impact, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" had on young people?

"You mean oral sex isn't really sex!? That's great!"

Without excusing any of the statements referenced, some context. Context is always good.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/rapequotes.asp

I didn't see an instance where context helped those statements. Which one(s) did you think the context helped?

Osborne Russell
01-28-2018, 08:56 AM
If you get pregnant from rape, it's something God intended to happen.

If you get murdered, it's because God wanted you killed.

So where do humans get the presumption to make it a crime to carry out God's will?

Peerie Maa
01-28-2018, 09:00 AM
So where do humans get the presumption to make it a crime to carry out God's will?

That would be the Devil at work.

CWSmith
01-28-2018, 12:08 PM
Before our brush gets too broad, I'd like to point out that Republicans don't have a monopoly on retarded thinking. It just seems that more of them congregate around conservative modes of thought. (I do recall that there are some conservative Democrats.)

You'll have to explain to me what in post #1 can be called "conservative".

David G
01-28-2018, 12:19 PM
Just wondering what was behind the bundles of threads in a few minutes .

Too much caffeine? Dunno.

David G
01-28-2018, 12:21 PM
Where are our "defenders of the deplorable"?


Politicians of all stripes, being human, say silly, at times downright ugly, things.

For example, I wonder what impact, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" had on young people?

"You mean oral sex isn't really sex!? That's great!"

Without excusing any of the statements referenced, some context. Context is always good.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/rapequotes.asp

Would a defender of 'degrees of deplorable', and promoter of False Equivalence serve?

CPF
01-28-2018, 12:42 PM
I know a lot of Republicans. I differ with them on many things, but none of them think like that. So how is this thread helpful, or a good thing in any way? Or is it mere divisiveness?

Best,
Chris

CWSmith
01-28-2018, 12:48 PM
I know a lot of Republicans. I differ with them on many things, but none of them think like that. So how is this thread helpful, or a good thing in any way? Or is it mere divisiveness?

Best,
Chris

The answer is that these thoughts and public comments come out from the Republican bubble where ideas such as this are born and evolve in an environment of mutual support and affirmation. This is what is being said by the people who only listen to right-wing commentary and news sources.

I also have friends and relatives in the Republican Party who would strongly disagree with these statements, but their values do not guide the GOP at this time.

David G
01-28-2018, 12:54 PM
I know a lot of Republicans. I differ with them on many things, but none of them think like that. So how is this thread helpful, or a good thing in any way? Or is it mere divisiveness?

Best,
Chris

Dateline Munich - November 10, 1923

I know a lot of Germans. I differ from them on many things. Their lingering resentment for the way they were treated as the losers of WW1 causes friction between us on many issues. Some of them are nearly blinded with that reaction. But none of them supported the Beer Hall Putsch. Not a single one of the people in my circle.

So how does reporting on the nascent German Workers Party movement serve any purpose, my editor (who is, fwiw, German) asks. Am I just being needlessly divisive?

No, I say. Reporting on this group is important. They are a danger to the nation. Their actions and statements have defined them as such. And if we don't recognize that danger - and take steps soon to quash it - it will lead to further ugliness. Perhaps even a Civil War... or another World War. I don't want to see that happen to the good people of Germany.

George Jung
01-28-2018, 12:54 PM
Sure, there’s a spectrum- and I’ve encountered folks at the extremes. All claimed Republicans.

David G
01-28-2018, 12:55 PM
Sure, there’s a spectrum- and I’ve encountered folks at the extremes. All claimed Republicans.

And who among them, do you think, controls Today's Republican Party?

David W Pratt
01-28-2018, 12:58 PM
IIRC, a number of self professed, left leaning people in the entertainment business voiced the opinion that Roman Polanski's rape of a 13 yo girl was not objectionable

George Jung
01-28-2018, 01:00 PM
Citations? Or just your recollection?

Peerie Maa
01-28-2018, 01:01 PM
I know a lot of Republicans. I differ with them on many things, but none of them think like that. So how is this thread helpful, or a good thing in any way? Or is it mere divisiveness?

Best,
Chris

It highlights the fact that Elected Representatives can think like that, or are so inept (yathink?) that their comments can be taken to mean that. The problem for right thinking Americans is that statements like that empower the aerosols amongst you.

Canoeyawl
01-28-2018, 01:15 PM
Sure, there’s a spectrum- and I’ve encountered folks at the extremes. All claimed Republicans.

Once upon a time you presented here as republican, and I think you sir are well up the ladder of IQ and critical thinking.

So, if A leads to B, these poor folks (bless their hearts) don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of changing their own mind. At least until they are guided to a breadline or protected in a foxhole perhaps, by someone outside their normal sphere of influence.
Or... until they can be no longer distracted by the flashing of lights and glimpses of mammary glands from the Fox network.

Joe (SoCal)
01-28-2018, 01:32 PM
The first quote by Clayton Williams reminds me a drunk weather announcer Tex Antoine on WABC in NYC.


On November 24, 1976, on the 6 p.m. broadcast, Antoine's weather report immediately followed a story about the attempted rape of an eight-year-old girl. Antoine thereupon quipped: "With rape so predominant in the news lately, it is well to remember the words of Confucius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius): 'If rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it'."

Within 25 minutes of the comment, the station received 665 calls from mostly irate women about Anotine's insensitive comment. Despite the on-air apology, WABC wasted no time suspending Antoine. Roger Grimsby (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Grimsby) and Bill Beutel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Beutel) led the 11 p.m. newscast that night with the official apology from WABC-TV. After the station apology, another 450 calls were made, including a quarter in favor of not suspending Antoine after making the on-air apology. The comment was not the first occurrence of controversial remarks by Antoine. In February 1974, over 100 calls were sent in for the broadcaster using a profanity on an open microphone. A day later, network executives hinted that they would probably forgive Antoine for the controversial remark.

bobbys
01-28-2018, 01:47 PM
IIRC, a number of self professed, left leaning people in the entertainment business voiced the opinion that Roman Polanski's rape of a 13 yo girl was not objectionable
.

In fact he got s standing ovation.

The difference here is a republican is not starting s thread on how every liberal is the same as polanski to score a cheap point.

birlinn
01-28-2018, 01:51 PM
Although it must have been tempting, bobbys.
You still haven't commented on the republican worthies in the original post, though.

ishmael
01-28-2018, 01:53 PM
You're right David, it was a false equivalence. A married president using his huge power differential to have sex with a young, naive White House intern in the oval office, then lying about it by parsing words, is much worse than merely SAYING ugly, stupid things.

Peerie Maa
01-28-2018, 01:59 PM
You're right David, it was a false equivalence. A married president using his huge power differential to have sex with a young, naive White House intern in the oval office, then lying about it by parsing words, is much worse than merely SAYING ugly, stupid things.

If you are being ironical please use an emoticon.

David G
01-28-2018, 02:24 PM
If you are being ironical please use an emoticon.

<snort>

Osborne Russell
01-28-2018, 03:45 PM
You're right David, it was a false equivalence. A married president using his huge power differential to have sex with a young, naive White House intern in the oval office, then lying about it by parsing words, is much worse than merely SAYING ugly, stupid things.

1. Consensual -> legal.
2. Takes two to tango, even if one is the President.
3. Not intended as a statement to the public, in fact measures were taken to keep it secret.

Arsehohl public statements are far worse, having a broader and deeper impact, intending to make it ever broader and ever deeper. Everyone should be raped. Or not complain, anyway.

Peerie Maa
01-28-2018, 03:52 PM
1. Consensual -> legal.
2. Takes two to tango, even if one is the President.
3. Not intended as a statement to the public, in fact measures were taken to keep it secret.

Arsehohl public statements are far worse, having a broader and deeper impact, intending to make it ever broader and ever deeper. Everyone should be raped. Or not complain, anyway.

Further more writing off a 22 yo woman as
young, naiveis a bit patronising, yes?

TomF
01-28-2018, 03:56 PM
You're right David, it was a false equivalence. A married president using his huge power differential to have sex with a young, naive White House intern in the oval office, then lying about it by parsing words, is much worse than merely SAYING ugly, stupid things.For the record, Jack, while I think Clinton acted execrably in his sex life, the Lewinsky thing isn't an example of using a huge power differential to have sex with an intern.

Lewinsky herself has been very prominent in recent years, reclaiming her own identity. In a TED talk exactly about this, she made the point that she, Monica, "fell in love with her boss." It was entirely, absolutely consensual, in her telling.

Now, Bill shouldn't have done it anyway. I can give you 6 reasons without breaking a sweat, but none of them include overwhelming Monica with the force of his personality, or taking advantage of a huge differentiation in power to effectively erase notions of consent. Monica consented. Initiated, even. Not the same thing as forced sexual encounters at all.

woodpile
01-28-2018, 04:01 PM
Wow. Abysmal.

Clear on what? if I we're a democrat I wouldn't be throwing too many stones, there's no monopoly on this conduct.


http://www.newsweek.com/republicans-democrats-sexual-misconduct-trump-715837

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_sex_scandals_in_the_Unit ed_States

George Jung
01-28-2018, 06:07 PM
Once upon a time you presented here as republican, and I think you sir are well up the ladder of IQ and critical thinking.

So, if A leads to B, these poor folks (bless their hearts) don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of changing their own mind. At least until they are guided to a breadline or protected in a foxhole perhaps, by someone outside their normal sphere of influence.
Or... until they can be no longer distracted by the flashing of lights and glimpses of mammary glands from the Fox network.

Not quite; your memory seemingly failed you. Always Democrat; always vote Independent; used to lean right until the GWB Experience.

George Jung
01-28-2018, 06:10 PM
Clear on what? if I we're a democrat I wouldn't be throwing too many stones, there's no monopoly on this conduct.


http://www.newsweek.com/republicans-democrats-sexual-misconduct-trump-715837

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_sex_scandals_in_the_Unit ed_States


’abysmal’ is irrespective the party affiliation; feel free to counter with your own. But if you’re keeping score, honestly, the disparity in transgressions doesn’t favor you and yours.

David G
01-28-2018, 06:15 PM
Clear on what? if I we're a democrat I wouldn't be throwing too many stones, there's no monopoly on this conduct.


http://www.newsweek.com/republicans-democrats-sexual-misconduct-trump-715837

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_sex_scandals_in_the_Unit ed_States

Your links address the bipartisan nature of sexual harassment. And that is most certainly true. Perhaps not equivalent across party lines... but too close to it for my liking.

But your links are not on topic. I get it... the OP is an inconvenient and uncomfortable truth... and you want to change the subject. To deflect attention. Understandable. But not legitimate. Not honest.

The OP addresses repugnant comments about rape. If you want to make the 'equivalence' argument, you're going to have to come up with a similar dumpster full of disgusting crap - ONE THIS TOPIC - voiced by prominent Democrats.

Osborne Russell
01-29-2018, 01:45 PM
Further more writing off a 22 yo woman as is a bit patronising, yes?

Not only that, but if a 22 yo woman is incapable of giving consent, then the age of consent has to be raised to at least 23. I don't want to even start to think of the unintended consequences.

LeeG
01-29-2018, 02:24 PM
Too much caffeine? Dunno.

Ive been enjoying Peets lighter roasts lately, still have a good kick.

David G
01-29-2018, 02:33 PM
I’ve been enjoying Peets lighter roasts lately, still have a good kick.

I just picked up some of their Madison Blend last night. I've had it before, I know, but can't recall how it differs. Guess I'll find out.

woodpile -- anything on topic, as suggested? Or are you just trying to dream up your next deflection?

birlinn
01-29-2018, 02:34 PM
From rape to cofefe- strange how Fred drifts.

bobbys
01-29-2018, 04:15 PM
. If you thought Hollywood’s bad, it’s got nothing on the record business, particularly in the worlds of hip-hop and rap.
Take Big Sean, a rapper whose lyrics are littered with misogynistic and homophobic material.
In the video for his single ‘I Don’t F*ck With You’, the Detroit rapper talks about ‘stupid ass b*tches.’
He collaborated last year on a song with Eminem which included lyrics about ‘urinating on Fergie’ and raping Conservative talk show host Ann Coulter ‘with a Klan poster, a lamp post, a door handle and a damn bolt cutter.’
He doesn’t just write about treating women badly, he acts on it too.

LeeG
01-29-2018, 06:25 PM
. If you thought Hollywood’s bad, it’s got nothing on the record business, particularly in the worlds of hip-hop and rap.
Take Big Sean, a rapper whose lyrics are littered with misogynistic and homophobic material.
In the video for his single ‘I Don’t F*ck With You’, the Detroit rapper talks about ‘stupid ass b*tches.’
He collaborated last year on a song with Eminem which included lyrics about ‘urinating on Fergie’ and raping Conservative talk show host Ann Coulter ‘with a Klan poster, a lamp post, a door handle and a damn bolt cutter.’
He doesn’t just write about treating women badly, he acts on it too.

dang bobbys yer spelling just got so much better!

Peerie Maa
01-29-2018, 06:28 PM
dang bobbys yer spelling just got so much better!
From the cambridge study thread.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by bobbys http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=5463884#post5463884)
In my yute a ugly gal had me under her thumb..

My wife was a model and has a masters.

Trouble is when ever we meet people they ask , what are you doing with this guy?..... who the f=/k sez this to strangers?

Guy could get his feelings hurt!


Coincidence or what?

CWSmith
01-29-2018, 06:40 PM
Coincidence or what?

Odd, isn't it? I've noticed that he is very lucid at times and then barely literate.

Garret
01-29-2018, 07:22 PM
Odd, isn't it? I've noticed that he is very lucid at times and then barely literate.

Nope - he's a bright guy who works for effect. Sometimes it's funny...

Maybe we'll learn he's not a roofer, but an English Prof at Oregon.

David G
01-31-2018, 11:24 AM
Nope - he's a bright guy who works for effect. Sometimes it's funny...

Maybe we'll learn he's not a roofer, but an English Prof at Oregon.

Naahhh... he's a roofer. Sorta. My people down on the N. Coast have told me stories about him. Small towns: everyone knows everyone. I understand he's a perfectly competent roofer. And, beyond that, he's every bit as clear-headed and reasonable in real life as he is here. Ask him about local politics sometime.