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Norman Bernstein
01-26-2018, 08:37 AM
While browsing Audible for books for an upcoming road trip, I ran across one called "The Sociopath Next Door"... with an interesting premise:


Harvard psychologist Martha Stout reveals that a shocking 4 percent of ordinary people, one in 25, has an often undetected mental disorder, the chief symptom of which is that that person possesses no conscience. He or she has no ability whatsoever to feel shame, guilt, or remorse. One in 25 everyday Americans, therefore, is secretly a sociopath. They could be your colleague, your neighbor, even family. And they can do literally anything at all and feel absolutely no guilt.

Of course, the accuracy of this claim is debatable... but it does make one think.


How do we recognize the remorseless? One of their chief characteristics is a kind of glow or charisma that makes sociopaths more charming or interesting than the other people around them. They're more spontaneous, more intense, more complex, or even sexier than everyone else, making them tricky to identify and leaving us easily seduced.

If the author is right, then we undoubtedly have one or more of them right here in the bilge....

...and no, I'm NOT going to suggest who they are :)

Keith Wilson
01-26-2018, 08:43 AM
I've worked with a couple. I do not recommend it.

ishmael
01-26-2018, 08:47 AM
If they're good, it can be difficult to realize. Time, and dispassionate experience.

Reynard38
01-26-2018, 09:14 AM
Ive worked with more than a couple.
Also my FIL might have qualified as one.

Unpleasant people to be around.

Art Haberland
01-26-2018, 09:19 AM
sadly enough, my sister is one.

SKIP KILPATRICK
01-26-2018, 09:23 AM
I've known at least two. Try to avoid them.

Jim Mahan
01-26-2018, 09:35 AM
Know any? Dude, I help breed 'em, apparently. Or attract them anyway. Present company, not included.

I don't think being a sociopath makes one a serial killer in waiting. If you felt no remorse, does it necessarily follow that you will indulge yourself in that for which you would otherwise have remorse, automatically? Does being a sociopath make one a for-the-helluvit disturber of the brown stuff? LIke you know who?

A sociopath in the office would not hesitate to cut the legs out from under a co-worker in competition for a promotion. Feeling no remorse would make it easier to be amoral or unethical, but does it necessarily include evil intent and danger as Hollywood would have us believe? Or temporarily not disbelieve?

Ian McColgin
01-26-2018, 10:23 AM
I have a friend who is a sociopath. He is very charming and his manipulations combined with his very strong work ethic have made him quite successful in several careers - studio musician, arts administrator, choir master, internet sales enterpreneur. He has no conscience, ability to lie with whole being conviction, and the basic ego centered alternative reality. Unlike Trump, my friend has a very fine mind and can keep his lies well organized, plausable, and internally consistent. He's as fearless at using truth as he is using falsehood.

He is totally untrustworthy in any normal sense naive sense of expecting good from people, but if you base your expectations on clear knowledge, he's perfectly reliable. You can absolutely trust him to stab you, front or back makes no difference, if the occasion requires. Not literally stab. He is intelligent which means that his strategies for living in society do not involve crime (outside of a bit of commercial fraud that's the norm in his business world) or interpersonal violence - too smooth for that.

Some sociopaths I've met professionally are very scarey and physically dangerous. Most are like Trump - intellectually limited but able to manipulate greedy people who are equally limited. And some are like my friend, authentically smart both in street smarts and high academic intelligence.

Nothing like a group of musicians sailing through the fog on Goblin. The choruses of "Balls to your partners" made any foghorn redundant.

David G
01-26-2018, 10:27 AM
While browsing Audible for books for an upcoming road trip, I ran across one called "The Sociopath Next Door"... with an interesting premise:



Of course, the accuracy of this claim is debatable... but it does make one think.



If the author is right, then we undoubtedly have one or more of them right here in the bilge....

...and no, I'm NOT going to suggest who they are :)

Ooohhh... I know, I know. We certainly have them here... both Big and Small. Call on me, I can surely answer this one. And in detail!!! <G> Ok... just kidding. I'd only get myself into trouble. But I suspect we can all compile our own lists. And, as mentioned, it often takes a while to identify a sociopath - because they are often both charming, and convincing. If you've read up a bit, and know what to look for, though...

amish rob
01-26-2018, 10:31 AM
My second step dad was clinical. A real sociopath. He was a gangster and criminal, and his absolute lack of feelings allowed him to excel.
Well, lack of emotional feelings.

He sure did feel when I went upside his punk head.

Anyway. Real sociopaths ainít a joke. They are as terrifying as crazy people, because they are totally unpredictable. A sociopath, for example, will just jump out the car at freeway speed, or stab you in the knee with a letter opener.

Peace,
Robert

Jim Mahan
01-26-2018, 10:39 AM
Ooohhh... I know, I know. We certainly have them here... both Big and Small. Call on me, I can answer this one!!! <G>

No doubt. Might we also call on you should the thread devolve from sociopathy to pedantry?




I kid the crusty old Oregostacean!




Was that sociopathic?


Wait, I'm one of the Small ones, right?

:pmad:


:)

Joe (SoCal)
01-26-2018, 10:45 AM
I fully admit I have sociopathic tendencies. I try to keep them in check and if it weren't for my saving grace of a modicum of compassion for my fellow man and my emotional sensitivity I would probably be a full blown sociopath. But you get me in jam situation with little or no options and I will become, very charming, manipulative and extremely dangerous.

CWSmith
01-26-2018, 11:05 AM
4 percent?!?!?!?! I guess that explains a lot.

downthecreek
01-26-2018, 11:06 AM
Anyway. Real sociopaths ain’t a joke. They are as terrifying as crazy people,

Peace,
Robert

Not sure whether it was socio or psychopath, but I worked with one. I shall always remember it as an encounter with pure evil.

amish rob
01-26-2018, 11:10 AM
Not sure whether it was socio or psychopath, but I worked with one. I shall always remember it as an encounter with pure evil.

Socio isnít really evil, just absolutely vacant. Iíve known psychos, too, but they tend to be more volatile.

Mind, I met these people while I myself was institutionalized, so these are not armchair diagnoses. I mean REAL sociopaths and psychopaths. Good times. :)

Peace,
All I Wanted Was A Pepsi (yes, I can joke about the torture, now:))

David G
01-26-2018, 11:14 AM
No doubt. Might we also call on you should the thread devolve from sociopathy to pedantry?




I kid the crusty old Oregostacean!




Was that sociopathic?


Wait, I'm one of the Small ones, right?

:pmad:


:)e

Of course, my dear boy. I shall endeavor to provide satisfaction and illumination should the need arise <G>

downthecreek
01-26-2018, 11:38 AM
Socio isn’t really evil, just absolutely vacant. I’ve known psychos, too, but they tend to be more volatile.

Mind, I met these people while I myself was institutionalized, so these are not armchair diagnoses. I mean REAL sociopaths and psychopaths. Good times. :)

Well maybe this one was psycho. Whatever she was, I experienced her as something less than human. If I were so disposed, she might have had me believing in devils. She ended up with a long sentence......

I don't think you would meet the likes of her in a UK institution, other than a prison. I think they are classified as severely personality disordered, not mentally ill, and not considered treatable.

Peace,
All I Wanted Was A Pepsi (yes, I can joke about the torture, now:))[/QUOTE]

bobbys
01-26-2018, 11:53 AM
While browsing Audible for books for an upcoming road trip, I ran across one called "The Sociopath Next Door"... with an interesting premise:



Of course, the accuracy of this claim is debatable... but it does make one think.



If the author is right, then we undoubtedly have one or more of them right here in the bilge....

...and no, I'm NOT going to suggest who they are :)
.

The hidden agenda is there is one here and is a conservitive that disagrees with the OP.

This way one can go on fake book and brag how right one is and that one is mental....

At any rate the seed is planted there is a kook here and the OP is on the case.LOL

Ian McColgin
01-26-2018, 11:53 AM
The terms 'psychopath' and 'sociopath' are lay terms. The DSM goes at all this differently as there are no identified physical brain or other diseases that cause these behaviors. So, not mental illness but behavioral disorder.

Most lay people use it that psychopath is "worse", especially absolutely no conscience, while sociopath is not quite so bad, a little conscience. When we use either term, we are describing a person more poetically, less scientifically.

bobbys
01-26-2018, 11:56 AM
i have a friend who is a sociopath. He is very charming and his manipulations combined with his very strong work ethic have made him quite successful in several careers - studio musician, arts administrator, choir master, internet sales enterpreneur. He has no conscience, ability to lie with whole being conviction, and the basic ego centered alternative reality. Unlike trump, my friend has a very fine mind and can keep his lies well organized, plausable, and internally consistent. He's as fearless at using truth as he is using falsehood.

He is totally untrustworthy in any normal sense naive sense of expecting good from people, but if you base your expectations on clear knowledge, he's perfectly reliable. You can absolutely trust him to stab you, front or back makes no difference, if the occasion requires. Not literally stab. He is intelligent which means that his strategies for living in society do not involve crime (outside of a bit of commercial fraud that's the norm in his business world) or interpersonal violence - too smooth for that.

Some sociopaths i've met professionally are very scarey and physically dangerous. Most are like trump - intellectually limited but able to manipulate greedy people who are equally limited. And some are like my friend, authentically smart both in street smarts and high academic intelligence.

Nothing like a group of musicians sailing through the fog on goblin. The choruses of "balls to your partners" made any foghorn redundant..

Tds.

bobbys
01-26-2018, 11:58 AM
I fully admit I have sociopathic tendencies. I try to keep them in check and if it weren't for my saving grace of a modicum of compassion for my fellow man and my emotional sensitivity I would probably be a full blown sociopath. But you get me in jam situation with little or no options and I will become, very charming, manipulative and extremely dangerous.
.

Bet one pushes the button like a secret agent man on a dangerous mission!

Joe (SoCal)
01-26-2018, 12:24 PM
Who ?™

I good psychopath DGAF :D

CWSmith
01-26-2018, 12:25 PM
One psychological disorder that many lay people might interpret as sociopathic is Borderline Personality Disorder. Anyone familiar with the term? A friend was married to a woman with BPD and when he consulted a psychologist about it the psychologist said, "Yes. We have a term for that. She's 'nuts'!"

People with Borderline Personality Disorder will drive you beyond despair and destroy just about every meaningful relationship they are in.

Art Haberland
01-26-2018, 10:45 PM
As I stated before, my Sister is one. She has spent her entire life believing she is smarter, prettier, wiser, and more charismatic than everybody else. To any that pose a threat, she will deride and destroy. She goes through her day utterly controlling each and everyone in her vicinity and within range of her cellphone. My mom allows herself to seem "Controlled" if only to see her two granddaughters. As for her daughters, the 16 year old is not even allowed to brush her own teeth without my sis inspecting them and sending her back to brush again and the list of offenses against that girl go on and on and on. She might as well be 6 for how my sister treats her.

And oh yes, you are also not allowed to be more sick that my sister, she is always in "pain" and ill, but still manages to raise a family, walk to the store daily, and do everything a normal person can.

C. Ross
01-27-2018, 12:48 AM
I worked for a sociopath. It was exhausting. I quit.

Phil Y
01-27-2018, 06:03 AM
The ones on here? Put them on ignore. Then you can make a deliberate decision about whether you want to read their post in the context of a particular conversation. 95% of the time you'll regret the decision to open the post, disengage and move on.

L.W. Baxter
01-27-2018, 06:52 AM
Diagnosing sociopathy on an Internet forum seems problematic at best. I wouldn't try it.

It's just words here, not deeds. And many of the words are anonymous, and most at least semi-anonymous.

If a poster argues from an amoral position, can we trust that they are amoral?

If a poster demonstrates narcissism, can we trust that it's not a put-on?

Is a consistent and provocative lack of sincerity/veracity on an Internet forum sociopathic? Or just annoying af?

CK 17
01-27-2018, 09:30 AM
Why just the other day I was complimented on my glow and charisma. . .

LeeG
01-27-2018, 09:47 AM
The terms 'psychopath' and 'sociopath' are lay terms. The DSM goes at all this differently as there are no identified physical brain or other diseases that cause these behaviors. So, not mental illness but behavioral disorder.

Most lay people use it that psychopath is "worse", especially absolutely no conscience, while sociopath is not quite so bad, a little conscience. When we use either term, we are describing a person more poetically, less scientifically.

Ian, so the terms aren’t really useful in identifying behavior disorders?

Ian McColgin
01-27-2018, 11:35 AM
A good introductory article about how the terms sociopath and psychopath fit in the DSM umbrella of Antisocial Personality Disorder, including the ambiguities and quarrels within the psychiatric community about which is what, may be found at https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath.

But if you're not a clinician, it makes no sense to nitpick. The lay use of the words is close enough for common use among lay people and does not lead to serious misunderstanding so long as one recognizes that while behavioral traits may be so deep seated as to be as unchanging as incurably awry brain chemistry, its a cluster of behaviors, as we see things now, and not an organic illness and behaviors are matters of degree. What we might mean by sociopathy in an extreme form in a more moderate form is part of a combat commander's ability to send troops to their deaths.

One reason real diagnosis is tricky is making the judgement as to when a leader exhibits not courageous decisiveness but rather utter disregard . . . and maybe even if it is utter disregard that's what it took to meet the challenge.

And this cycles around to no matter what you call it, can you trust a leader? Eisenhower certainly used legerdomain in war and in peace, yet in both war and peace he was trusted. Hitler and Stalin, on the otherhand, were well understood to be ruthless and both men could be "trusted" to betray anything or anybody if it suited their purposes. Success in leadership does not mean one is either good or right. In fact, like Hitler and Stalin, many of the most effective leaders - effective meaning they got their way with masses of people - led straight to Hell.

Ted Hoppe
01-27-2018, 12:03 PM
Besides my father...

David W Pratt
01-27-2018, 12:56 PM
Yes, my Granddaughter; she is only 1 yo so she'll probably grow out of it