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CWSmith
01-25-2018, 11:25 AM
I was looking at some statistics yesterday and it blew my mind. I always figured there is a percentage of the population that cannot or does not remain faithful to their spouses, but I've always thought it was something like a 5% problem.

It's not a 5% problem!

There are a lot of web pages out there and they all say about the same thing.

From: https://www.trustify.info/blog/infidelity-statistics-2017



Infidelity Statistics



In over 1/3 of marriages, one or both partners admit to cheating.
22% of men say that they've cheated on their significant other.
14% of women admit to cheating on their significant other.
36% of men and women admit to having an affair with a coworker.
17% of men and women admit to having an affair with a sister-in-law or brother-in-law.
People who have cheated before are 350% more likely to cheat again.
Affairs are most likely to occur two years into a marriage.
35% of men and women admit to cheating while on a business trip.
9% of men admit they might have an affair to get back at a spouse.
14% of women admit they might have an affair to get back at a spouse.
10% of affairs begin online.
40% of the time online affairs turn into real life affairs.



Perhaps the most troubling statistic that I saw (and I can't find it right now) is that about 70% of married people said they would cheat on their spouses if they knew they could get away with it.

Also, if I remember correctly only 1 in 3 marriages survive the cheating when it is uncovered.

I've been walking around my office today wondering, "Did he, did she, did...?"

I wear a ring on my hand that everyone can see. I define myself as "Her husband" to anyone, everyone, and in my own mind down to the very core of my being. I could not look at myself in the mirror in the morning if I had betrayed that commitment. I honestly do not know how anyone could.

StevenBauer
01-25-2018, 11:29 AM
I don’t get it either. And if those numbers are what people admit to - what do you think the real numbers are?

bob winter
01-25-2018, 11:33 AM
Depressing stats but not beyond belief.

mmd
01-25-2018, 11:34 AM
Infidelity - the game that comes without instructions, that anyone can play, and the winner usually loses, too!

David G
01-25-2018, 11:40 AM
I don't think anyone should be shocked.

It's the old hogamus, higamous thing.

That fact that anyone is shocked at the reality simply shows how well they have absorbed the socialization in favor of monogamy. There are certainly good reasons why, as a society, we have chosen to adopt monogamy as a value. But - as I understand it - we shouldn't confuse that with the way that human animals are hard-wired.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/are-men-hardwired-to-be-less-monogamous-than-women/

L.W. Baxter
01-25-2018, 11:40 AM
17% of men and women admit to having an affair with a sister-in-law or brother-in-law.


So gross.

Keith Wilson
01-25-2018, 11:42 AM
I'm beginning to understand why I've been happily married for 37 years.

Norman Bernstein
01-25-2018, 11:43 AM
Society defines marital fidelity... hormones and primal urges deny it. I'm not especially surprised. We weren't 'built' for fidelity, so it's a battle, for many people.

mmd
01-25-2018, 11:44 AM
^Ugly sister-in-law?

(Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll delete if too risqué...)

L.W. Baxter
01-25-2018, 11:47 AM
^Ugly sister-in-law?

(Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll delete if too risqué...)

Actually, no. Don't know why I find the idea especially disturbing.

Keith Wilson
01-25-2018, 11:47 AM
^Ugly sister-in-law? (Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll delete if too risqué...)No sister-in-law at all, actually, so no temptation there at all. I have a brother-in-law, but neither of us are into that kind of thing.

Eeeeeeew, really? 17%??

Bobcat
01-25-2018, 11:49 AM
Perhaps it's time to admit that monogamy doesn't work for a lot of people

amish rob
01-25-2018, 11:51 AM
17% picked the wrong sibling?

Peace,
Robert

CWSmith
01-25-2018, 11:57 AM
^Ugly sister-in-law?

(Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll delete if too risqué...)

:) Thanks. That lifts my spirits.

Ian McColgin
01-25-2018, 12:11 PM
If you're in relationships of free love (the real thing, not just screwing around) then it's not cheating. But it's still not easy or simple.

Humans, like swans, often find life more practical as a stabile long term couple. Genetic studies of swans have shown that while the swan coupld may be permanent, the actual genetics show a broader parentage. The same thing can happen with humans (with or without offspring) but if both parties do not have the requisit combination of commitment and acceptance, it may turn from attempting free love into exploitation. But then, monogomy very often turns into a form of exploitation. That's a risk in all human interactions however deep of shallow.

CWSmith
01-25-2018, 12:25 PM
If you're in relationships of free love (the real thing, not just screwing around) then it's not cheating. But it's still not easy or simple.


Respectfully, Ian, the whole "free love, open marriage, ...." nonsense is F-ing stupid.

One summer years ago there was a wife swapping club in my old neighborhood. About 15 or so couples played the game. That winter about half of them got divorced. We always hear about "It spices up our marriage, it's just for fun, no one gets hurt,...", but you never hear anyone say, "Then I watched as my wife went off with another man for the night." Free love sounds good on paper, but it doesn't work in human beings. At least, I've never seen it work for more than a relatively short time.

Keith Wilson
01-25-2018, 12:29 PM
Genetic studies of swans have shown that while the swan coupld may be permanent, the actual genetics show a broader parentage. .Humans too. Biological motherhood is obvious, but a surprising number of children have a different biological father than their social one. We appear to be wired in mutually-contradictory ways by evolution - and men and women somewhat differently. Not at all surprising; this stuff is MUCH older than human intelligence or society.

Katherine
01-25-2018, 12:36 PM
I've met my BIL, YUCK!!!!!

David G
01-25-2018, 12:39 PM
Respectfully, Ian, the whole "free love, open marriage, ...." nonsense is F-ing stupid.

One summer years ago there was a wife swapping club in my old neighborhood. About 15 or so couples played the game. That winter about half of them got divorced. We always hear about "It spices up our marriage, it's just for fun, no one gets hurt,...", but you never hear anyone say, "Then I watched as my wife went off with another man for the night." Free love sounds good on paper, but it doesn't work in human beings. At least, I've never seen it work for more than a relatively short time.

Apparently, you have no idea what Ian means by 'the real thing'. What you're describing is the 'just screwing around' he discounted.

Ian McColgin
01-25-2018, 12:42 PM
Wife swapping is an economic relationship theory based on putativly equal exchange. It seems that all too often in couples AA' and BB', A and B' want, while A' and B sort of go along. Pretty shallow. But again, no shallower than most human relationships or couples.

If one cares about any sort of ownership or possession, whether of one person or of several, one can have either a shallow sort of monogomy or a shallow "open marriage". Whatever it is, is not free love, which can be monogomous or not, just free as in not controlled or dictated by law, society, or anyone else's notion.

Free love is considerably more demanding than any of the societally sanctioned forms of monogomy, polygamy, or economic model forms of whatever passes for love.

Gib Etheridge
01-25-2018, 12:46 PM
I had a girlfriend who described it as "Nice to have a good secure base camp, but there's more to life than that." She was correct. We eventually drifted apart, but it had nothing to do with the fact that we were willing to share. We were quite open about it, enjoyed the occasional MMF heterosexual threesome, which she loved. That never grossed me out, it was a powerful turn-on. I must say that while I'm just fine with my marriage of 36+ years I do miss the variety and fun.

CWSmith
01-25-2018, 12:50 PM
Apparently, you have no idea what Ian means by 'the real thing'. What you're describing is the 'just screwing around' he discounted.

I actually do know what it means and I'm trying to say it is a fiction. It can be done for a time, but the level of commitment to the physical and psychological well-being of all involved is limited and generally brief. I've never seen it function for more than a year or two. I do know what he means. I just don't believe that it exists.

CWSmith
01-25-2018, 12:55 PM
Wife swapping is an economic relationship theory based on putativly equal exchange. It seems that all too often in couples AA' and BB', A and B' want, while A' and B sort of go along. Pretty shallow. But again, no shallower than most human relationships or couples.

If one cares about any sort of ownership or possession, whether of one person or of several, one can have either a shallow sort of monogomy or a shallow "open marriage". Whatever it is, is not free love, which can be monogomous or not, just free as in not controlled or dictated by law, society, or anyone else's notion.

Free love is considerably more demanding than any of the societally sanctioned forms of monogomy, polygamy, or economic model forms of whatever passes for love.

"...no shallower than most human relationships or couples." Wow. You do have a low opinion of relationships, but maybe the infidelity statistics I quoted confirm that opinion. I've never "owned" my wife, but I do take comfort in her dedication to our marriage. We came together as a choice and we remain that way as a choice. Couples can work together, listen, share, and build a supportive and lasting relationship if that is their priority. What you describe has more to do with maturity than anything else.

Yes, free love is demanding. It also runs contrary to human nature. We invest ourselves in relationships unless we are fundamentally dysfunctional. That investment is never equal to all and works to fill a need in us all. Human nature will always move a group to disproportionate smaller groups.

Keith Wilson
01-25-2018, 12:56 PM
One point is that evolved characteristics often vary a lot between individuals. Some folks are wired more for monogamy than others. 'Human Nature' is not just one thing.

John of Phoenix
01-25-2018, 01:03 PM
Actually, no. Don't know why I find the idea especially disturbing.Maybe because it's double betrayal - by both spouse and sibling. That's a crusher.

CWSmith
01-25-2018, 01:05 PM
Let me be clear before I participate in the derailing of this thread.

What I described in the OP is the deceitful disregard of marriage vows. I know people in open marriages. At least one of the two partners is always unhappy. I know singles who just want to go from bed to bed. I used to know people in free love relationships, but I don't know any such relationships that lasted more than a short time.

What I am surprised by is not that some people try to live life without commitments. What surprised me is that so many people make those commitments and then break them.

I am happy to debate free love, open marriage, or parsnip sex, but I just want it clear what my original statement is.

Landrith
01-25-2018, 01:09 PM
I am not married, I used to be. Inexplicably, I have a liberal Northern European attitude toward infidelity. If I was married and someone was giving my wife attention and making her happy, I'd loan him my car if he needed it...more time for boats!

Jim Mahan
01-25-2018, 01:11 PM
Some of us are not far removed from bonobos.

And for some it's mostly about the bon part.



In France, that's considered good.

PhaseLockedLoop
01-25-2018, 01:15 PM
Humans too. Biological motherhood is obvious, but a surprising number of children have a different biological father than their social one. We appear to be wired in mutually-contradictory ways by evolution - and men and women somewhat differently. Not at all surprising; this stuff is MUCH older than human intelligence or society.

Yeah, yeah. It’s all so much older. And we know this how, exactly?

SKIP KILPATRICK
01-25-2018, 01:15 PM
For those who haven't tried infidelity, don't knock it until you try it! :d

Gib Etheridge
01-25-2018, 01:21 PM
I am not married, I used to be. Inexplicably, I have a liberal Northern European attitude toward infidelity. If I was married and someone was giving my wife attention and making her happy, I'd loan him my car if he needed it...more time for boats!

I helped one of my girlfriends pack for a visit to Paris with another guy. She had a lovely time.

For me it has everything to do with not being the insecure sort and not wanting to own anyone.

Not projecting anything onto anyone here, but I have noticed that the friends I have that are the most turned off by the idea are clearly the most insecure.

Ian McColgin
01-25-2018, 01:24 PM
CWSmith is correct that we risk thread drift. I apologize.

I was not surprised or disturbed by this latest iteration of statistics because I have been reading generally similar stuff since the mid'60s. Besides sociology, we know a great deal about this from the writings of Chaucer and Mallory down to Shakespere, Dylan Thomas, Edna St. Vincent Millay, Ginsberg . . .

CWSmith
01-25-2018, 01:30 PM
CWSmith is correct that we risk thread drift. I apologize.

I was not surprised or disturbed by this latest iteration of statistics because I have been reading generally similar stuff since the mid'60s. Besides sociology, we know a great deal about this from the writings of Chaucer and Mallory down to Shakespere, Dylan Thomas, Edna St. Vincent Millay, Ginsberg . . .

By no means do I mean to stop the drift. Please, Ian, feel free to continue. Let this go anywhere everyone wants. I just wanted to make it clear that secret infidelity is different from sanctioned non-monogamous behavior.

David G
01-25-2018, 02:02 PM
Yeah, yeah. It’s all so much older. And we know this how, exactly?

Thru reading, and learning from what we read. I highly recommend it.

L.W. Baxter
01-25-2018, 02:04 PM
Maybe because it's double betrayal - by both spouse and sibling. That's a crusher.

I believe you're right.

And as for in-laws married to your own siblings, that would also represent double betrayal, of a slightly different sort. Not something I would contemplate for even a split second.

David G
01-25-2018, 02:18 PM
One point is that evolved characteristics often vary a lot between individuals. Some folks are wired more for monogamy than others. 'Human Nature' is not just one thing.

Indeed. And the sexual mores change over time, and morph, and sometimes swing toward extremes in various directions.

And not just over time - but between subcultures. Consider the Mormans. Or... my life. I was lucky enough to live in a town with much Scandahoovian influence. Which meant, sexually, that things were just a bit more laissez-faire than in some other places. And lucky enough to spend my college years, and beyond, in a time when women were just beginning to exuberantly throw off the bonds of middle-class, 50's-style, sexual repression.

As one small example - I was once lovers with 3 women during the same period of time. I never made a secret of it. And, eventually, they all came to know each other. And found a lot in common. And became friends. And ended up doing a lot of things together - both with and without me. Hiking. Movies. Trips to the coast. All sorts of things. And, afik, there never were any hard feelings. Partly because there never were any lies told, nor promises made that weren't kept.

Obviously... we're not all still in a 4-way relationship. One, I lost track of - unfortunately. Since she was the most 'conventional' of the three... maybe there were some unexpressed resentments. But I never saw/heard any hint of it, and I'd be surprised if it were true. Another, I have stayed friends with. She's married to another old friend, and I'm godfather to their first child. I see them at least once a year, often more. The third is my starter wife. After 42 years... I'm beginning to think I might just keep her <G>

David G
01-25-2018, 02:23 PM
I believe you're right.

And as for in-laws married to your own siblings, that would also represent double betrayal, of a slightly different sort. Not something I would contemplate for even a split second.

Because such relationships would, if pursued, run counter to both the way women are hard-wired... and, more importantly, the existing social rules... it would be a situation highly unlikely result in joy and satisfaction for all, or to end well.

As I suggested earlier - I believe the key to any relationship is communication combined with your love.
This holds true many times over for 'unconventional' forms of relationship. But even with that as an accomplished skill, and a proven committment, Lee's (scary) scenario would not be one I'd attempt.

AussieBarney
01-25-2018, 02:28 PM
I believe this is covered by the "Love and Honour" part of my vows.

One does not do it, period.

It would destroy the trust, it would destroy my marriage and it would destroy us both.

That is something I am not willing to contemplate.

bob winter
01-25-2018, 02:29 PM
Divorce can be a very expensive hobby, one I plan to give a miss to.

skuthorp
01-25-2018, 02:31 PM
I like this comment from Gib, "For me it has everything to do with not being the insecure sort and not wanting to own anyone."
And I am not at all surprised by the statistics at all. At base it's about the male attempting to ensure that it's his genes that breed the next generation, and for the female having healthy offspring is likely more important. Once bred it used to be that the offspring, being an investment for the whole community, were looked after by that community. Since the invention of chief's kings and real estate it's been about money and property and title. All muddied by the intervention of religions who wished to exercise control over their adherents.
That's why I am not surprised at all.

Keith Wilson
01-25-2018, 02:32 PM
Yeah, yeah. It’s all so much older. And we know this how, exactly?Excuse me? How could it be possibly otherwise? We are, like it not, animals. Do our mammalian relatives not have a variety of different mating behaviors? What is more affected by evolution than reproduction? Of large-scale complicated behavior, what has more of an involuntary component? We can no more control who we're sexually attracted to than we can consciously control the secretions of our pancreas. We have a certain amount of conscious control over what we actually do, but far less over what we want to do. If evolutionary psychology can shed light on any aspect of human behavior, it's mating.

Note that this tells us nothing at all about what we ought to do; that's another subject altogether.

CWSmith
01-25-2018, 02:45 PM
We have a certain amount of conscious control over what we actually do, but far less over what we want to do.

Note that this tells us nothing at all about what we ought to do; that's another subject altogether.

This raises a good point. I believe that the statistics in the OP include a form of emotional infidelity. There is a statement somewhere in what I read that unfaithful behavior over the internet becomes unfaithful behavior face-to-face (or whatever-to-whatever) in about 40% of the cases. So, somewhere between flirtation and phone sex there is a form of nonphysical infidelity that I think is included in the stats.

I have no idea if this includes just going to a strip joint and the like, but I certainly don't think it's behavior that my wife would consider to be entirely within the realm of our vows.

webishop14
01-25-2018, 02:54 PM
I once was the second m in a situation where the woman's husband wanted to watch another man have sex with his wife. I should say this was back in my drinking days. Even so, after the fact I realized that this was a mistake I didn't need to repeat.

I've been married 27 years now (second marriage). Shortly after the wedding, I explained to my wife that the only way I could have a successful extramarital affair (one where the wife didn't find out about it) was if I didn't know about it. What happened in her past life is hers, and what happened in my past is mine. We sometimes share for our mutual enjoyment or introspection. I have always felt that jealousy is one emotion that will destroy a marriage. We have our together times and our separate times, and I have complete trust in her when she goes out to play. And should that play involve an affair, then that was what was needed. But I also know that an affair would be the end of our marriage.

All that said, while I am VERY married, I still can enjoy the scenery. On my last trip to Ukraine (alone), on my last night in Kiev before flying back home, I found a delightful young woman seating herself at the table as I was sitting down. We had an enjoyable dinner and conversation. Later we walked back up Khreschatic toward my hotel. In the middle of Independance Square I passed her the last 100 grivna note I had on me, and wished her farewell. Needless to say, she was stunned I didn't invite her up to my room. (This story I've not shared with my wife because she does have a fragile ego and would have a problem with it.)

bobbys
01-25-2018, 03:05 PM
I married the first gal that said....yes.... and I don't dare stray.

My wife is HOT and I'm a ugly lad.

All she would have to do is snap her fingers at some guy and I would be on my own and out of luck.

Ted Hoppe
01-25-2018, 03:07 PM
fantasy of a thing is often better than the actual possession and moreover less painful for all parties. Hey we all get this - Sometimes we cant stop wanting what we want. It has been my great fortune that I have had for a long time such a strong loving partner who has the sense to engage me on many levels even when we didn’t see eye to eye or eye or when we begin to drift apart. Being in a long loving relationship takes lots of work. Moreover - there are lots of lonely people. I know to stay clear of them emotionally and keep it distant. As people we need constant reassurance of attractiveness, connection and desire. When those who don’t get that after a while will most likely be actively seeking another partner. Many times it takes 2 or more people involved who sit in that position. One of the tops rules of a good relationship - if you can’t tell the person you love what you want because it is emotionally hurtful, morally or ethically wrong - why would you do it at all?

mmd
01-25-2018, 04:07 PM
When I was younger and first married to Maureen, I travelled a lot and was often away for long periods (months) on contract. My dear wife admonished me against extra-marital affairs thusly:

"I can't stop you from fooling around while you are away, but if you do, never let me find out about it, and never bring home any gifts that I do not want."

So far (thirty-five years), I have not broken that commandment.

Boater14
01-25-2018, 04:17 PM
The notion of having, no, allowing more than one woman in your life has always mystified me.

DMillet
01-25-2018, 04:31 PM
The notion of having, no, allowing more than one woman in your life has always mystified me.

Sort of the same here. I always thought one was maybe even a little more than I could actually handle. Since my wife passed away I've had two failed relationships. My suspicion that maybe I'm not quite up to even one at a time is further confirmed. :)

David G
01-25-2018, 04:33 PM
The notion of having, no, allowing more than one woman in your life has always mystified me.

I find it no more difficult than having more than one man in my life. <G>

Or... did you mean... 'having more than one lover (man or woman) in your life at a time?

But even then - having more than one lover in my life was sometimes a challenge. Certainly a different level of work and commitment than to have just one. But, in the final analysis, worth it. Similar, in ways, to the commitment and work of owning 6 boats. Now that I'm in my 60's however, I'll limit myself to trying to keep up with the boats. Extra women would just plumb wear me out, I suspect.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4HlOnA9NgQ

Ted Hoppe
01-25-2018, 04:58 PM
This thread needs music.


https://youtu.be/WaSy8yy-mr8

Ted Hoppe
01-25-2018, 05:00 PM
https://youtu.be/5ZnrZnFSlWU

David G
01-25-2018, 05:03 PM
Just to be clear - I know I've veered off from 'marital infidelity' to 'relationships with more than one lover at a time'. But my comments buttress the same concept: communication, commitment & love. If there are those things - you don't get infidelity. You might get 'experimentation'... or 'non-traditional relationships'... or somesuch.

Reynard38
01-25-2018, 07:09 PM
22% of men say that they've cheated on their significant other.
14% of women admit to cheating on their significant other.


Those 14% of women must cheat a lot!

I’ve owned aircraft, race cars, Porsche’s, and of course boats. None could come close to the expense and stress of an affair. Not even close!
I’d feel dirty. Worst of all would be how my daughter would see me. I’ve seen a number of fellow pilots go down this road. How they can look at themselves in the mirror I don’t know.

gilberj
01-25-2018, 07:13 PM
It is a little difficult to get to the bottom of where the default position of monogamy comes from (pun sort of intentional). Many non-mainstream societies have had a social mechanism for occasional cross-fertilization, from Inuit in the far north to Polynesia....(is that where 'Poly' comes from?). Several of the main religion's allow for more than 1 of each sex, though as far as I know none currently practice polyandry. I read once, can't vouch for the source, that During Mohamed's time it was fairly common for wealthy women to have several options. In any case most of our main-stream religions' are pretty specific about who you can have sex with and when.

Marriage was of course really started for the purpose of merging powerful houses together, and sex or love were seldom a main determining factor. A business deal...that is all. Then the church stepped in....A Priest once told me "you no play'a da game ...you no make'a da rules"

I do think extra-relational sex is a betrayal, ....unless you have specifically agreed to different rules in your relationship in this regard. I have known a number of people of both genders that have experimented with some form of open- . At least one of those relationships have lasted well beyond 20 years, another around 10 years to my knowledge. I don't think this "betrayal / cheating" is really an any worse than other forms of cheating/betrayal...secret drinking/gambling/porn/whatever after you have sworn off it, been identified as a problem. It is still a betrayal of trust and trust is damaged, and maybe impossible to repair.

Phil Y
01-25-2018, 07:20 PM
My wife says if I ever have an affair she'll cut my penis off. That's worked well. She's joking, I think. I've only once or twice been in a sitiation where the real possibility of infidelity has presented itself. While I've thought it might be fun it's not been hard to turn away.

David G
01-25-2018, 08:13 PM
Owning a business... I meet a fair number of women. Boat owners. Suppliers. Boating group members. Various woodworking project clients. And even though I'm now an old, fat, short, gray, grouchy guy, and I've always been short & stocky (not at all 'tall dark & handsome'... like Pless <G>)... I've attracted interest a fair amount over the years. I'm chatty. I tease. I flirt. I'm not the least bit stuffy, but rather friendly and collaborative. Women respond. And for the most part, I've been able to laugh my way out of trouble. Those few times when the women have become insistent - I tell them quite earnestly, "I don't sleep with other women until my wife approves them. Would you like me to schedule an interview?" Luckily, no one has said 'yes'. I don't have a backup plan. But I've never cheated on my wife. I'd feel dirty, and it's too much work to keep secrets.

CWSmith
01-25-2018, 08:41 PM
My wife says if I ever have an affair she'll cut my penis off.

I always thought the same, but then about 2 years ago I was working late a lot and at some point when she knew what was going on she confessed to me that she was thinking I was having an affair. That was odd. I think I'd sooner cut my own penis off than cheat on her, but her imagination got the better of her. She was sad and I didn't know it. I was too consumed with work. I can't let that happen again.

L.W. Baxter
01-25-2018, 09:03 PM
While I've thought it might be fun it's not been hard...

I'm not even going to swing at this

gilberj
01-25-2018, 09:18 PM
There is a substantial range in these statistics.
A few years ago I was bouncing around on the Internet and happened on an article about this... the numbers were different and much higher than we have seen on this thread.
Over 50% of men and slightly less than 50% of women admitted to 'cheating' at least once on their S.O. ever...
I guess you guys were not polled on that survey...

George Jung
01-25-2018, 09:23 PM
Lots of variability to the numbers. We still at a 50% divorce rate? For me, no temptation. I’d lose so much.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/well/marriage-cheating-infidelity.html

Dave Hadfield
01-25-2018, 09:54 PM
22% of men say that they've cheated on their significant other.
14% of women admit to cheating on their significant other.


Those 14% of women must cheat a lot!

I’ve owned aircraft, race cars, Porsche’s, and of course boats. None could come close to the expense and stress of an affair. Not even close!
I’d feel dirty. Worst of all would be how my daughter would see me. I’ve seen a number of fellow pilots go down this road. How they can look at themselves in the mirror I don’t know.]

Nailed it.

I've always thought that for every layover minute I was on my own, so was my wife. (Two sides to the street. The goose and the gander. Etc.)

Also, regarding the other threads, "it's a wise child that knows its own father". The modern trend towards DNA testing is sometimes shocking. It isn't discussed much, because its painful, but a lot of skeletons are nowadays dancing out of the closet.

It's not simple. This NY Times article is well written. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/magazine/22Paternity-t.html

bobbys
01-25-2018, 10:08 PM
My daughter said out of all her friends parents we were the only ones married from the get go.

When i was young i never heard of anyone divorced in our parish.

Jim Mahan
01-25-2018, 11:13 PM
Oh what webs we weave, when once we start weaving in earnest.

I have always been a one woman man. Each and every time it was just one woman. That one. And it's her fault. And I know she can hear me thinking, so I'm not just saying this.

You know, one man—one woman. One job, one house, one car and just one damn boat. Is that so hard? One on the side. One here and there.



Seriously, I have a longish post just a bit more personal and to the point if anyone were not already bored to tears.



Don't all post at once. I'm going to post the whole damn thing in a bit anyway so you might as well be encouraging first.

Breakaway
01-25-2018, 11:43 PM
One set of my grandparents divorced. Three uncles and one aunt all divorced.My folks stayed together. I am now getting divorced.

The OP stats don't surprise me at all.

Kevin

Oysterhouse
01-26-2018, 12:42 AM
Married for 30 years. Ethical non-monogamist for over a decade. Becoming more polyamorous as I get older.

It is a difficult lifestyle, it takes lots of work, constant comunication, rigorous honesty, integrity, and self awareness.

I find it to be rewarding. But it certainly isn't for everyone.

downthecreek
01-26-2018, 03:22 AM
Now that I'm in my 60's however, I'll limit myself to trying to keep up with the boats. Extra women would just plumb wear me out, I suspect.


Made me think of the retired fisherman whose little trawler was in the yard next to mine last time she was hauled out. I was there working on her and he was working on his. Chatting while we had a breather, he remarked that there are three things that keep you young - an old boat, an old house and a young wife |:)

Well, I've got two of the three. I think a structure dated back to around 1470 (the house) counts as old. Whether 43 years counts as old for the boat I'm not sure. But a young wife - well I really don't want one of those. (Not after 40 years of happy and faithful - on both our parts, I believe - marriage to a person of the male persuasion) So maybe I'll stay youngish.

None of us really know anything but a tiny tip of the iceberg of other people's relationships, so I don't presume to comment on them. Unhappy marriages come in many forms and I've seen a lot of marriages come to grief. A horrible, miserable situation. On the other hand, perhaps people can, indeed, love more than one person, as many say they can. But I think I would have a hard time getting past the hurt I would have caused to someone I loved (my husband) if I had cheated on him.

PeterSibley
01-26-2018, 04:26 AM
44 years and not counting .

CK 17
01-26-2018, 07:41 AM
I’m not perfect and I’ll just leave it at that.

Canoez
01-26-2018, 09:15 AM
44 years and not counting .

I like that perspective.

Frankly, I've never had any interest in an affair and according to SWMBO, neither has she. We have interests in things we do together, and we have interests that we pursue independently - so from that perspective we've got a measure of trust in the other individual. On top of that, we've often (sort of) joked about the fact that we're both too busy and too tired to even think of having an affair!

CWSmith
01-26-2018, 11:24 AM
]
I've always thought that for every layover minute I was on my own, so was my wife. (Two sides to the street. The goose and the gander. Etc.)

Not to mention that every woman finds it far easier to cheat than any man will find it.



You know, one man—one woman. One job, one house, one car and just one damn boat. Is that so hard?

When you got to the one boat I think you went to far! :)

George Jung
01-26-2018, 12:02 PM
I recall a 'blurb' in the news, several years ago, when it was policy to do paternity tests for immigrants - but they stopped performing, because of the trauma and excitement they caused, as (as I recall), 25% or so didn't match!

Suspect it's similar, from our locals.

DMillet
01-26-2018, 12:16 PM
You know, one man—one woman. One job, one house, one car and just one damn boat. Is that so hard? One on the side. One here and there.


Seems God gave us two of most of the things we need (eyes, ears, kidneys, etc) who are we to decide we only need one wife (or house or car, or boat). For God's sake man, one BOAT, what were you thinking?

CWSmith
01-26-2018, 03:39 PM
I told a friend about these statistics and his immediate was response was that he was surprised the numbers were so low.

Then in reference to the infidelity while on business trips stats, he told me of a trip where he repeatedly called the front desk and asked them to tell the couple next door to please keep the spanking quieter! :)

The Bigfella
01-26-2018, 05:51 PM
Is Bonnie Prince Charlie a forum member?

Too Little Time
01-26-2018, 07:44 PM
I wear a ring on my hand that everyone can see. I define myself as "Her husband" to anyone, everyone, and in my own mind down to the very core of my being. I could not look at myself in the mirror in the morning if I had betrayed that commitment. I honestly do not know how anyone could.
I think I share those values. It seems to me that most people I know share those values.

I know people who have divorced, but I cannot think of an instance where infidelity was the issue.

The Bigfella
01-26-2018, 08:10 PM
I think I share those values. It seems to me that most people I know share those values.

I know people who have divorced, but I cannot think of an instance where infidelity was the issue.

I got divorced last year, after 36 years married and 43 years together. My ex is the mother of my three children and I will always love her. We didn't divorce for reasons of fidelity.

I'll postulate, however, that fidelity is a spectrum.

At one end there's "doing it"... but even there, there's a range of behaviours... from the tipsy, business trip, one night stand in a far distant place out of character event, where (whatever....) and further on, there's the full blown affair / serial affairs end of the deal.

At the other end, there's one on one interactions with another person that ticks your box with respect to "interest". Is it unfaithful to have a meal with another woman (sticking to M/F hetero relationships here, from the M perspective)? Is it unfaithful to dance with another woman? Dance is sexual, after all. Is kissing another person infidelity?

On that last one... my girlfriend and another female friend have both had a male friend of ours try to slip the tongue in a couple of times. He's engaged to yet another friend (who doesn't know). We all think it's appalling behaviour. I think its borderline infidelity. I'm surprised that both women gave him a second opportunity (a kiss hello / goodbye). To me the answer is simple.... turn the cheek. He'll get the message.

CWSmith
01-26-2018, 09:41 PM
At the other end, there's one on one interactions with another person that ticks your box with respect to "interest". Is it unfaithful to have a meal with another woman (sticking to M/F hetero relationships here, from the M perspective)? Is it unfaithful to dance with another woman? Dance is sexual, after all. Is kissing another person infidelity?


I grew up in a community that still had Saturday night dances. The adults had a later time than the teenagers, but I'm sure that men danced with each other's wives. That's not infidelity, unless you're grinding your pecker into her. A kiss hello or goodbye is normal affection between friends, but on the other hand...



On that last one... my girlfriend and another female friend have both had a male friend of ours try to slip the tongue in a couple of times. He's engaged to yet another friend (who doesn't know). We all think it's appalling behaviour. I think its borderline infidelity. I'm surprised that both women gave him a second opportunity (a kiss hello / goodbye). To me the answer is simple.... turn the cheek. He'll get the message.

He's a scumbag and you should bury your fist in his teeth.

Bernadette
01-26-2018, 09:58 PM
44 years and not counting .
sweet as Peter!
absolutely wonderful!

DMillet
01-26-2018, 10:41 PM
I knew I married the right woman when I realized neither one of us knew the exact day of our anniversary! We always argued about whether it was on August 5th or August 6th. I could go look at the marriage certificate, I know right where it is, but the memory of those insignificant little quarrels warms my heart on this late January evening. God, I miss that woman.