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Dave Hadfield
12-21-2017, 01:38 PM
2 Yak-55 aerobatic aircraft bolted together. (Kind of a Russian Lightning?)

EAA at it's best!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2VrKp4M6qk&app=desktop

Steve McMahon
12-21-2017, 01:52 PM
That was great!

Pitsligo
12-21-2017, 01:55 PM
(Kind of a Russian Lightning?)

More like a Russian F-82 Twin Mustang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-82_Twin_Mustang

Alex

Jim Bow
12-21-2017, 01:57 PM
How many watches does Breitling sell in a year?

Dave Hadfield
12-21-2017, 02:43 PM
The Collection I fly for ran a spoof a few years ago on April 01. http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/351/Double-Double--The-Story-of-the-Zwillingsbiber-Beaver.aspx

It actually fooled a lot of people -- hence the large label at the top now.

Anyway, this aircraft looks like the doppelganger story brought to life.

Norman Bernstein
12-21-2017, 02:52 PM
I have a hard time discerning the motivation for a project like this, as well as the economics.

I don't know how a project like this is 'monetized'.... if, indeed, it is monetized at all. Can money be made from airshows? If so, I don't see how.... As for the economics, it seems that the overall cost for a project like this would be astounding... years in the making, which would cause costs to mount.

I could see this as a labor of love, for someone with far too much money, than they know what to do with... but the project itself seems a little specious. There's nothing new about welding two airplanes together.... witness the double P-51.

Some years back, there was the attempt to get a B-29, which had been downed in Greenland during WWII, back in the air... by reconditioning it in the spot where it made an emergency landing. Heaven only knows how much money was spent, to get the plane sufficiently reconditioned to at least make a short hop over to Thule AFB... and, in fact, one participant died, although it's not know whether the rigors of setting up camp at the site and doing the reconditioning contributed to his death in a significant way. The sad part of the story is that, when attempting to take off, a makeshift APU in the rear of the plane caught fire (maybe just a cheap gasoline generator?) and the entire plane burned up.

I don't know what the 'value' of a recovered B-29 would be.... if it had value, at all, in terms of being able to recoup the expense via airshows or museum entry fees or whatever....

...maybe Dave, you could enlighten us, on the economics of this sort of thing?

johnw
12-21-2017, 03:10 PM
The Collection I fly for ran a spoof a few years ago on April 01. http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/351/Double-Double--The-Story-of-the-Zwillingsbiber-Beaver.aspx

It actually fooled a lot of people -- hence the large label at the top now.

Anyway, this aircraft looks like the doppelganger story brought to life.

Someone was justly proud of their ability with photoshop.

Barry
12-21-2017, 05:46 PM
The Collection I fly for ran a spoof a few years ago on April 01. http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/351/Double-Double--The-Story-of-the-Zwillingsbiber-Beaver.aspx

It actually fooled a lot of people -- hence the large label at the top now.

Anyway, this aircraft looks like the doppelganger story brought to life.

CCGS Tabernack, That's a good one!!

http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/News%20Stories%20D/Double%20Double%20-%20The%20story%20of%20the%20Zwillingsbiber%20Beave r/TwinBeaver29.jpg

ron ll
12-21-2017, 06:41 PM
Bump the good threads, flush the immature crap.

Paul Pless
12-21-2017, 08:28 PM
shorts mayo composite

because the fully loaded transatlantic flyingboat didn't have enough power to lift off on its own. . .

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/9a/a8/f79aa86fefe45b492742eb720186c9e6.jpg

Dave Hadfield
12-22-2017, 07:52 AM
Bump the good threads, flush the immature crap.

Thanks!

ishmael
12-22-2017, 08:06 AM
Norm,

Why do anything? Money, love, fame? Or, the oft repeated ol' saw, "because it's there!" And, these guys are clearly having a blast to boot!:) :) :)

I wanna see it fly with a jet engine!

moTthediesel
12-22-2017, 08:27 AM
I love that center wing section -- cleco-palooza!

Dave Hadfield
12-22-2017, 12:08 PM
Yes, there is a quality in American life that is "Can-Do", in which original thought, and creativity, and engineering know-how, and hands-on skill, and craftsmanship come together to make something or do something no one has done before. And I relish that, I admire it, I think it's terrific.

It occurs everywhere to some degree of course, but in the States, it seems -- to me anyway, quite subjectively of course -- to have coalesced more than in other places in the past, and it's still very much alive.

I love the way these guys just went ahead and Made-This-Happen.

Norm, it doesn't have to make sense. And it's probably socially irresponsible to do Cool Stuff with your money rather than hand it away to the unfortunate. But I delight in it anyway.

The ice-cap B-29 accident was indeed due to an improperly-secured gas-powered generator in the fuselage. They taxied out to the airstrip they'd improvised, the ground was rough, the generator came loose, caught fire, and the aircraft burned on the spot. As for the mechanic who died, yes, he had medical problems which went untreated as he worked on the airplane, there on the ice, and he was evacuated to Frobisher too late. The story is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kee_Bird

Is there a sensible Business Plan for this idea? Probably, although I wouldn't bet my house on it. It certainly has novelty-value for airshow appearances, and with both radials cranking it will sound terrific. Yes, they'll get bookings. As for the actual balance-sheet, we don't know how much it cost -- quite a bit of the project might have been donated labour and materials, just for the fun of being a part of it.

Norman Bernstein
12-22-2017, 12:26 PM
Norm, it doesn't have to make sense. And it's probably socially irresponsible to do Cool Stuff with your money rather than hand it away to the unfortunate. But I delight in it anyway.

I understand the appeal, Dave, of doing something unique and original... and certainly, folks with excess money aren't exclusively obligated to be philanthropic... they're got the right to also enjoy it.

This particular project, however, doesn't strike me as having a great deal of conceptual merit... I suspect I could think of other unusual things that might be done, which would be more interesting.


The ice-cap B-29 accident was indeed due to an improperly-secured gas-powered generator in the fuselage. They taxied out to the airstrip they'd improvised, the ground was rough, the generator came loose, caught fire, and the aircraft burned on the spot. As for the mechanic who died, yes, he had medical problems which went untreated as he worked on the airplane, there on the ice, and he was evacuated to Frobisher too late. The story is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kee_Bird

Yes, there was a documentary film about the entire project, which I've watched more than once... pretty fascinating, when you think about trying to restore an aircraft that has been sitting, exposed to the weather, for decades... and doing just enough restoration for a ferry flight... thinking about the fact that they could not possibly have examined and tested all of the wiring and cabling.

THAT project had a lot of conceptual merit, at least.... there aren't a lot of flyable B-29's left.


Is there a sensible Business Plan for this idea? Probably, although I wouldn't bet my house on it. It certainly has novelty-value for airshow appearances, and with both radials cranking it will sound terrific. Yes, they'll get bookings. As for the actual balance-sheet, we don't know how much it cost -- quite a bit of the project might have been donated labour and materials, just for the fun of being a part of it.

Since you are associated with antique/classic aircraft, aviation museums, and air shows, could you possibly provide a primer to the rest of us, on the economics of those activities? Is there any money to be made, in tings like airshows? Do the museums pay for themselves in terms of admission tickets? How much contribution is required, to sustain all of that?


EDITED TO ADD: if I were to choose an aviation project which would be REALLY cool... and impossibly expensive.... I'd love to see one of the four remaining B-36's take to the air again! :)

Dave Hadfield
12-22-2017, 12:30 PM
Norm,

It would be good to encapsulate my thoughts on the airshow business. But it'll take a bit of time, and I need to go do Christmas-prep at the moment.

Short version: if you want to make a million dollars in the airshow business, start with 2 million.

;)

Norman Bernstein
12-22-2017, 12:32 PM
Norm,

It would be good to encapsulate my thoughts on the airshow business. But it'll take a bit of time, and I need to go do Christmas-prep at the moment.

Short version: if you want to make a million dollars in the airshow business, start with 2 million.



I get the point, Dave :)

Yeah, it has to be a labor of love, I guess... and probably best suited for those with either lots of money... or a rich patron! :)

Reynard38
12-22-2017, 03:28 PM
Used to fly with a captain that bought a Mig 15 after the wall came down. $75,000 including a spares package and a spare engine. Only way he could afford to fly the thing was in airshows. They'd paid his fuel bill to and from in additions to the tab for the show.