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cs
10-23-2017, 03:06 PM
Shifting tax burden to middle class; Check
Limiting access to health care insurance; Check
Playing hoops with paper towels and hurricane victims: Check
white supremacy: Check
Undermining subordinates: Check
Belittling world leaders: Check
Retreat is for ratings: Check
Playground antics & name calling: Check
B-52's back on alert: Check

Seems like we've checked off all the major things needed to get us back on the road to being great again.

Chad

oznabrag
10-23-2017, 03:11 PM
I don't know, Chad, seems like we haven't had a good impeachment in a while.

S.V. Airlie
10-23-2017, 03:14 PM
Chad, here's one or two you forgot; make women 2nd class citizens and destroying the environment.Oh, don't forget education either!

cs
10-23-2017, 03:16 PM
Not sure if you can tell I'm just a little bit bitter over this. Not only did we (as a country) make a choice for the lesser of two evils ( and lost) but we complexly overlooked perfectly acceptable choices, one that was taken aback for a second by Aleppo (bet he knew Portia Rico was on our side) but beyond that even my lifelong closest friends has decided me and him should just part as friends because I haven't bought into the propaganda machine and it is "just not worth it".

Chad

cs
10-23-2017, 03:17 PM
Chad, here's one or two you forgot; make women 2nd class citizens and destroying the environment.Oh, don't forget education either!


Oh yeah TRIPLE CHECK. Man we are on a roll!

Chad

mmd
10-23-2017, 03:36 PM
Well, he did say that after he was President, America would never be the same again...

StevenBauer
10-23-2017, 03:39 PM
You forgot how he’s lining his own pockets with our taxpayer dollars.

cs
10-23-2017, 03:42 PM
Just feel like everything I've done, everything I've believed in, Every value, every moment spent in service to this great country, just feel like it is all being made a mockery of and my time was wasted. Just because this guy sold everyone a pig in a poke with his false patriotism and rhetoric. And here I thought that I helped in winning the Cold War, but yet again we are back to hiding under tables if the planes take off (or at least getting ready for that).

Chad

skuthorp
10-23-2017, 03:43 PM
I am sorry about losing your friend Chad, but it seems he has made the choice not you.

S… happens in life, it's up to you whether you remain open for a future reconciliation, or just move on.

SKIP KILPATRICK
10-23-2017, 03:46 PM
I'm sorry too.

Of all the stupid things in this world, I lost a friend over a statue!

cs
10-23-2017, 03:47 PM
Yeah it is one of those things and I"m sure he will come back around and realize that friendship is more important. I always have prided myself on trying to listen to the other side and not be so judgmental. I stood by watching and hoping that he would do us right and prove all the haters wrong, but in the end my heart is broken and my spirit in disrepair over what I have seen.

Chad

cs
10-23-2017, 03:51 PM
I guess here is what started the descent into madness for me, when he started the childish name calling for the Anthem protest. Here is a piece I wrote on that and my opinion was not popular among my friends.

BETRAYAL

Let no one doubt my Patriotism or my love of country. Thirty one years (and counting) of military service. I’ve never backed down and I’ve always paid the upmost respect to our country, our flag, and our citizens. Doubt me not when I say I love my country.


You may ask what it is that I love about the USofA? Well the answer to that can be found in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This document outlines the basic freedoms that we enjoy, the freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, protection of the right of life and liberty. These rights and freedoms and many more can be found within that great document. When you get down to the nuts and bolts, what I love about my Country is that our founding fathers built this nation based on these rights and freedoms, free from the oppression of others. Sure we’ve had our bumps and bruises and we have a long way to go, but with our Constitution as the basic building block we can achieve a true equality of man.


We’ve come a long way but yet we still have a long way to go. As a middle aged Southern white male maybe I haven’t seen how severe the racial difference is, maybe I do experience “white privilege”. So I’m probably not in position to say how others have been wronged. What I can say though is if there is a perception of wrong and it is very deeply seated that somewhere there is a kernel of truth. I can’t be blinded by my own safe and secure life to the troubles of others. Just because I don’t see it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. When others talk about how they are oppressed or treated differently because of race and the call is repeated loudly and often, then I have to take notice and start to believe that yes there is a problem.


I love football, I love the thrill of the game and all the excitement that goes with the winning and all the sorrow that goes with losing. Football is that escape from the drudgery of life, it allows us to step outside of ourselves and to be part of something bigger, but at the end of the day I understand that this is just a game. Here of late however the game I love has been buried in a muck of controversy as players kneel during the National Anthem. This is not the protest I would choose.


I love my country and it brings a tear to my eye when I listen to the National Anthem, I think about all those rights and freedoms that was earned through the blood of others. I have a stirring in my heart as I think of all my brothers and sisters I served with over the years. I’m filled with pride as I think of my time served, of the times I spent away from my family so they and others could enjoy the rights and freedoms our forefathers fought for and established for us. I think of how brother fought brother to hold our nation together. I think of how not once but twice our grandfathers and fathers went off to help stop the spread of evil on the other side of the world. I think of our brothers and sisters that went around the world to spend their lives in defense of others. Of how we have tried to do our part to stop the spread of terror. And I also think about those great leaders that have struggled to bring us to the point where all men are equal.


On game day when I see players take a knee during the National Anthem I am not angered. I don’t take a personal affront to their kneeling, I don’t feel disrespected because of these actions. What I do feel is sadness deep in my heart. A feeling of betrayal, not by them, but a betrayal of us. The blood of our fathers has given us the foundations for the greatest nation ever, a nation where all are equal, a nation where brother and sisters stand arm in arm regardless of race or ethnic background. We as citizens, we as brothers & sisters, we have betrayed that trust given to us by these great men. When our fellow man feels so wronged, when injustice is so great, when this man feels that to make himself heard he has to take a knee during the National Anthem, yes friends WE have betrayed him!


These men are not “Sons of Bitches”, they aren’t disrespecting the flag. These men are taking a knee, crying out for help because we have betrayed them. There is an old saying “if there is smoke there is a fire”, well maybe these men have opened our eyes to the fire. If they choose to kneel in peaceful protest, I personally will defend their right even as I stand beside them with my hand on my heart.



Chad

SKIP KILPATRICK
10-23-2017, 03:56 PM
Well stated! For what it is worth I'd be proud to have you as a friend.

Garret
10-23-2017, 03:57 PM
That's a beautifully written, obviously heartfelt piece Chad. I am very sorry you've lost friends over it. Here's hoping that they see the light sooner rather than later.

John of Phoenix
10-23-2017, 04:02 PM
Here's hoping that they see the light sooner rather than later.I wouldn't count on them seeing the light at all, ever. If all his crap hasn't flipped their switch, it won't happen.

Garret
10-23-2017, 04:07 PM
I wouldn't count on them seeing the light at all, ever. If all his crap hasn't flipped their switch, it won't happen.

I was trying to be positive.

Sort of to your statement, I talked with a friend I hadn't seen for over a year yesterday. When I mentioned how angry, embarrassed & disgusted I am, he said "I get it, but you need to be patient - this is a test for the US. If he is slammed in the next election, then we know the US will be OK. If he wins, we'll know it's time to give up on our country."

Not sure I can be that philosophical about it...

WI-Tom
10-23-2017, 04:23 PM
Just feel like everything I've done, everything I've believed in, Every value, every moment spent in service to this great country, just feel like it is all being made a mockery of and my time was wasted. Just because this guy sold everyone a pig in a poke with his false patriotism and rhetoric.

At least in Wisconsin we had time to work up to feeling like this when Scott Walker was elected governor multiple times despite hundreds of thousands of protesters in Madison and a successful campaign for a recall election...

Tom

John of Phoenix
10-23-2017, 04:28 PM
I was trying to be positive.

Sort of to your statement, I talked with a friend I hadn't seen for over a year yesterday. When I mentioned how angry, embarrassed & disgusted I am, he said "I get it, but you need to be patient - this is a test for the US. If he is slammed in the next election, then we know the US will be OK. If he wins, we'll know it's time to give up on our country."

Not sure I can be that philosophical about it...That's an "All or Nothing" bet and with as many proud, celebrating, self described deplorables in this country, I'd actually call it a sucker's bet.

John Meachen
10-23-2017, 04:33 PM
A truly depressing thread,Chad has always been one of the good guys on this forum.I wish he posted more often and it saddens me that he feels so badly.

Hugh Conway
10-23-2017, 04:35 PM
Not sure if you can tell I'm just a little bit bitter over this. Not only did we (as a country) make a choice for the lesser of two evils ( and lost) but we complexly overlooked perfectly acceptable choices, one that was taken aback for a second by Aleppo (bet he knew Portia Rico was on our side) but beyond that even my lifelong closest friends has decided me and him should just part as friends because I haven't bought into the propaganda machine and it is "just not worth it".

Chad

While Gary Johnson might have been slightly more sane than Trump, the Libertarian party is utterly incapable of governance.

skuthorp
10-23-2017, 04:36 PM
I was trying to be positive.

Sort of to your statement, I talked with a friend I hadn't seen for over a year yesterday. When I mentioned how angry, embarrassed & disgusted I am, he said "I get it, but you need to be patient - this is a test for the US. If he is slammed in the next election, then we know the US will be OK. If he wins, we'll know it's time to give up on our country."

Not sure I can be that philosophical about it...
He will be at his most dangerous to the nation if it looks like he could lose.

TomF
10-23-2017, 04:49 PM
Chad, I'm sorry about your friend, and the similar stories many people can tell. This is something like what happens in a civil war.

McMike
10-23-2017, 05:50 PM
Well stated! For what it is worth I'd be proud to have you as a friend.

A agree on both counts.

cs
10-24-2017, 07:35 AM
Thanks for the support guys and I count you guys as my friends for sure. I do get caught up in life sometimes and don't get on here as much as I used to. But that may change. I will be re-visiting the Dragonship/Meerkat project and hoping to finalize the design and start construction. Bruce and I have dug the plans up and posted them online and I just gotta get back into them.

Oh I think my former Mayor has gained a few notches of respect in my eyes. He is one of the few standing up and voicing his opinion. Go get 'em Bob!

Chad

Chris Coose
10-24-2017, 07:48 AM
I gotta ask, how did you get by the pussy grabbing and mocking the disabled reporter parts to see that this fool could make America great again?

cs
10-24-2017, 08:02 AM
I never did buy into his sales pitch and always thought he was a chauvinist pig at best. I gave him a chance, like we all should, but at some point I found I had enough and could take no more and started actively speaking out.

Chad

Chris Coose
10-24-2017, 08:20 AM
All that those of us who could see the pathology in this creepy **** early on can hope for is that reasonable people such as yourself will turn the corner and, like you, actually speak out. In the big picture, the loss of that kinda friend actually adds to your equanimity.

Canoez
10-24-2017, 08:28 AM
Just feel like everything I've done, everything I've believed in, Every value, every moment spent in service to this great country, just feel like it is all being made a mockery of and my time was wasted. Just because this guy sold everyone a pig in a poke with his false patriotism and rhetoric. And here I thought that I helped in winning the Cold War, but yet again we are back to hiding under tables if the planes take off (or at least getting ready for that).

Chad

Let no one doubt that you helped do that - including yourself.

The issue, at least in my mind, is that the Russians now have a spymaster as their leader. He longs for the greatness of the past and is using asymmetric methods to achieve his ends. We are at war, but do not realize it.

Norman Bernstein
10-24-2017, 08:56 AM
Chad, you have served your country honorably, and sacrificed far more than most of us, to do so, which is why I salute you.

The country is vastly bigger than Donald Trump... and I continue to believe that the true meaning of America is more commonly found in people like you, who serve... and not in those who want to tear us down, divide us, and diminish the American dream.

We may have serious political disagreements... and the rhetoric can be heated at times... but true Americans don't lose sight of what binds us together. I've been thinking about John McCain, a man whose service I honor, despite the fact that he may be miles away from me, politically... but even before his diagnosis of an incurable brain tumor, he was still standing up for the principles of democratic government, and acting honorably. I also think about men like Tom Steyer, Nick Hannauer, and others, who have achieved the highest pinnacles of the American dream, but still devote efforts to the common interests of ALL Americans, and not just the wealthy and powerful.

History teaches us that political movement, and political sentiment to the extremes, is never long-lasting... so the national nightmare we are experiencing will not be perpetuated. Eventually, wiser heads will prevail... and all we can do, until that happens, is hang on.

cs
10-24-2017, 09:03 AM
Honest assessment here, what do you think about Bob Corker and his stance here of late?

Chad

Canoez
10-24-2017, 09:05 AM
Corker is a man with nothing to lose but his reputation in certain circles. He's certainly free to speak his mind now.

John of Phoenix
10-24-2017, 10:10 AM
Corker's stance of late is way the hell too late. trump hasn't changed since he was in knee pants.

What changed Corker's mind all of a sudden?

cs
10-24-2017, 10:20 AM
Not sure what changed other than like mentioned he has nothing to lose, or maybe as we grow we learn and his eyes are no opened. Not sure but I do like that he is speaking out.

Chad

John of Phoenix
10-24-2017, 10:41 AM
Not sure what changed other than like mentioned he has nothing to lose,Which means that we get screwed so he can keep his job. This is the whole problem with republicans.

"I've got mine (and I'll do anything to keep it), SCREW you."

Norman Bernstein
10-24-2017, 10:47 AM
Honest assessment here, what do you think about Bob Corker and his stance here of late?


I think Corker reflects a MUCH wider sentiment, which cannot be expressed by Republican legislators who want to hold onto their seats. I'm convinced that a great number of these folks are THINKING the same thing as Corker... but recognize political suicide when they see it.

I think it's rather a shame that it requires a decision to retire, before a guy like Corker can speak truth to power... but this is the nature of politics today. The hard core right wing, represented by the Tea Party and the Alt Right, are more than willing to 'primary' any GOP legislator who strays off the reservation, even if it means that they destroy guys with substantial seniority who are empowered to push the Republican agenda.

It l may be for naught, however.....

For a VERY depressing read, try this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/on-safari-in-trumps-america/543288/?utm_source=nl-atlantic-daily-102317&silverid=MzEwMTkxNDYyMDc3S0

The main point of the article: there may NOT be any sort of political center in this country... and the next election may be just a contest between extremes.

cs
10-24-2017, 03:25 PM
When I had posted that note about my stance on kneeling of course I caught some flack and the question did inevitably come up about white privilege. Below is the story I related about what I perceive as white privilege or at least as I understand it. Of course I got beat up a little over this. This is an actual event that actually happened to me.

And there was this one night when all was right in the world. Getting ready to go out on the town I put in my new contact lenses. Now anyone that knows about semi-hard contact lenses might understand how red they can make your eyes. But anyway I head out in the beat up rusty old Dodge with leaky wide open headers, boy those Thrush mufflers do nothing to tone down the sound. Flying down the road like I do I came across the hard 90 degree left hand curve in the road. Reaching down I grab 2nd gear. Jerking the GT steering wheel to the left I slam my foot to the floor as the car dives into the turn. Smoke boiling off my tires, the smell of burning rubber fills the air as the scream of tires on pavement is drowned out by the roaring of a 318 breathing through headers. Successful navigation of the turn was answered with keeping the proverbial petal to the metal only to find several blue lights flashing ahead. Yeah so they got me, pulled me over finding I had an out of state Driver’s licenses, the tags were for a VW bug (and registered in someone else’s name), and no insurance. So here I stand on the side of the road, a young testosterone filled young man, talking to a Orlando police officer, eyes bloodshot, dangerously and recklessly driving a loud unregistered un-insured rusty car and not even a legal resident of the state of Florida thinking the whole time that I was getting ready to do some time in the local jail. The officer reviewed my information and told me to be careful and sent me on my way with just a verbal warning. No ask yourself, what would have happened if I had been a young Hispanic or black male? This is a true story and this is white privilege.


Chad