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SKIP KILPATRICK
10-11-2017, 10:02 AM
Trump: 'It is about time' Goodell is 'demanding' NFL players stand for anthem !

A lot of countries force their citizens to show their patriotism maybe it's time we do in the USA as well!

Do you think the NFL should require players to stand for the National Anthem or face expulsion from the league?

Norman Bernstein
10-11-2017, 10:06 AM
My prediction: This is going to end badly, for the NFL... and worse, for Roger Goodell.

amish rob
10-11-2017, 10:06 AM
I would love to see the NFL shoot itself in the foot over this. How long can the teams survive without merchandise revenue? It’s the shirts and hats that make the loot...

Charisma is a quality true leaders possess. It is what evokes fealty in people. Not force.

Peace,
Emperor For Life

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 10:06 AM
i think the NFL should do what's best for their business. in this case, the players are costing them millions. they use those millions to pay those players. it's in all of their best financial interests to stand. i have no problem with the owners directing their employees to conduct themselves in a manner deemed appropriate by their employers. if they don't want to abide by their employers guidelines, they are free to work elsewhere.

Tom Wilkinson
10-11-2017, 10:10 AM
The NFL has been bought by the government, and it's a bad path to go down. The government has no business directing the NFL, or their players, but that's what is happening.

The fact that the highest person that is sworn to uphold everyone's first amendment right is directly trying to violate that right should be troubling to everyone.

CWSmith
10-11-2017, 10:11 AM
No, they should not be required to stand for the national anthem.

From what I read of Goodell's message, things were being considered but had not yet been decided. Trump's message seems premature.

I also don't believe the anthem should be played at sporting games. It demeans the anthem.

Garret
10-11-2017, 10:12 AM
I think the whole requiring people to stand for the anthem is complete BS. Requiring people to stand for the anthem? What happened to the "land of the free"?? This is the usual Republican thing of "We know what's best for you, so we're going to force you to do it". Bunch of hypocritical, lying sacks of ...

Yes - this pisses me off. If I don't feel like standing for the anthem I have every right not to! Someone wanna tell me where the constitution says I have to?

CWSmith
10-11-2017, 10:13 AM
i think the NFL should do what's best for their business. in this case, the players are costing them millions. they use those millions to pay those players. it's in all of their best financial interests to stand. i have no problem with the owners directing their employees to conduct themselves in a manner deemed appropriate by their employers. if they don't want to abide by their employers guidelines, they are free to work elsewhere.

As usual, you are wrong.

If the game loses money because of the players, then repay the players in kind with lower salaries.

Americans should be smart enough to know that "take a knee" is a sign of affection for this country and a protest that we are not living up to its ideals without self-interested politicians misrepresenting the act as unpatriotic.

And you, too, should know the difference.

S.V. Airlie
10-11-2017, 10:14 AM
My prediction: This is going to end badly, for the NFL... and worse, for Roger Goodell.I agree! Trump is finally getting back at the NFL too after being kicked to the curb for trying to float another football league.

amish rob
10-11-2017, 10:14 AM
i think the NFL should do what's best for their business. in this case, the players are costing them millions. they use those millions to pay those players. it's in all of their best financial interests to stand. i have no problem with the owners directing their employees to conduct themselves in a manner deemed appropriate by their employers. if they don't want to abide by their employers guidelines, they are free to work elsewhere.

Oh. This is a tricky spot.

No employer has the right to force me to express a political opinion. Period.

If I don’t want to stand, I don’t have to. The polite, respectful way to not stand, is, apparently, to kneel. For my employer to FORCE me to demonstrate a political opinion is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Drug test? Sure. Wear the uniform? Sure. Believe this? Nope.

Here’s the deal. These men are protesting the treatment of black people, and being treated like property. Which is what black people used to be. We, as a country, have never dealt with the slavery issue. It’s still festering.

Who makes the money? That’s the real bottom line. The maniacs bashing their skulls together. Period. The owners do little other than juggle loans.

We are too management biased in this country.

Peace,
Robert

Norman Bernstein
10-11-2017, 10:15 AM
i think the NFL should do what's best for their business. in this case, the players are costing them millions.

Got a source or link to support the idea that player protests are 'costing them millions'? I don't think so....

In any event, support for the players is what it is:


A majority of Americans say that the protests by NFL players during the national anthem are appropriate, according to a USA Today/Suffolk University poll (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/02/usa-today-poll-americans-say-trump-wrong-nfl-protests/721809001/) published on Monday.

The poll found that 51 percent of those surveyed said the players' protests were appropriate while 42 percent said they were inappropriate.

The results differ from a CBS News/YouGov (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/353073-poll-nfl-protests-trumps-response-both-unpopular) poll released on Sept. 29 that found 52 percent of Americans disapproved of the players kneeling, while 38 percent approved.

In the USA Today poll, over two-thirds (68 percent), said that Trump's call for NFL owners to fire players and for fans to boycott their games was inappropriate. Only 27 percent of responders agreed with Trump's response.

A third of Republicans support players' right to protest compared with nine out of 10 Democrats. Only 8 percent of respondents had no opinion about the protests.

CWSmith
10-11-2017, 10:15 AM
I think the whole requiring people to stand for the anthem is complete BS. Requiring people to stand for the anthem? What happened to the "land of the free"?? This is the usual Republican thing of "We know what's best for you, so we're going to force you to do it". Bunch of hypocritical, lying sacks of ...

Yes - this pisses me off. If I don't feel like standing for the anthem I have every right not to! Someone wanna tell me where the constitution says I have to?

Maybe it's time more of the fans "take a knee" along with the players?

If I ever went to a football game, and I don't because I despise the game, I would do it. We all should if only as a protest to politicians who don't understand what the Constitution is really about.

Dave Hadfield
10-11-2017, 10:15 AM
I lack the Watching-Team-Sports Gene. My DNA is deficient.

No professional sports team has ever made a penny out of me. I don't watch any of it, I don't go to games, I don't buy the clothes and the endorsements mean nothing to me. I don't "get" it. And I'm puzzled by the obvious interest of everyone else.

Not that it bears on this case...

mmd
10-11-2017, 10:16 AM
Didn't your Supreme Court rule some years ago that burning the flag is an expression of free speech? Not standing to honour it during the playing of the national anthem seems to be a much lesser affront to patriotism.

Arizona Bay
10-11-2017, 10:16 AM
The more disrespectful and unpatriotic thing is a "President",
who is charged with upholding and defending the Constitution,
condemning the citizens of the country for exorcising their Constitutional rights.


I'm with Molly
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/88/3d/a7/883da733f456753c5eed039532fc1a6e--us-flags-famous-quotes.jpg

Garret
10-11-2017, 10:17 AM
The more disrespectful and unpatriotic thing is a "President",
who is charged with upholding and defending the Constitution,
condemning the citizens of the country for exorcising their Constitutional rights.


I'm with Molly


Well said! Me too.

Norman Bernstein
10-11-2017, 10:19 AM
I lack the Watching-Team-Sports Gene. My DNA is deficient.

No professional sports team has ever made a penny out of me. I don't watch any of it, I don't go to games, I don't buy the clothes and the endorsements mean nothing to me. I don't "get" it. And I'm puzzled by the obvious interest of everyone else.

Not that it bears on this case...

I used to be like you, Dave... and still am, to a degree.

I will admit, though, that being married to a woman who knows more about professional sports than any guy I know, has had it's influence. These days, I DO enjoy watching the Patriots... although I don't watch any other pro sports, and don't read about sports in the papers or on-line.

I most certainly don't buy the clothes :) I was a bit of a fan of Vince Wilfork, the Patriots former defensive lineman, who had a wonderful sense of humor and seemed like a good guy... but when my wife suggested that I buy a Wilfork jersey, and I saw the $99 price, I decided I didn't like him THAT much :):)

Tom Wilkinson
10-11-2017, 10:20 AM
If you actually use the definition of patriot, those that are kneeling very closely fit that definition.

patriot
[pey-tree-uh t, -ot or, esp. British, pa-tree-uh t]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2.
a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.

There was an interview with Jesse Ventura (whom I rarely agree with) where he articulates this point very well. This a very basic freedom and precisely what those that fought for our flag fought for. The flag is not a piece of cloth representing those who fought, it represents the very freedom that they are using to protest.

amish rob
10-11-2017, 10:23 AM
I lack the Watching-Team-Sports Gene. My DNA is deficient.

No professional sports team has ever made a penny out of me. I don't watch any of it, I don't go to games, I don't buy the clothes and the endorsements mean nothing to me. I don't "get" it. And I'm puzzled by the obvious interest of everyone else.

Not that it bears on this case...
Bread and Circuses. Bread and Circuses.

Peace,
Brutus

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 10:24 AM
Got a source or link to support the idea that player protests are 'costing them millions'? I don't think so....

In any event, support for the players is what it is:


how about forbes?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed-nfl-losing-millions-of-tv-viewers-because-of-national-anthem-protests/#1a946e79226c

secondary blow back

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2017/09/25/von-miller-loses-denver-endorsement-kneeling-national-anthem-brandon-marshall/702366001/

Norman Bernstein
10-11-2017, 10:26 AM
how about forbes?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed-nfl-losing-millions-of-tv-viewers-because-of-national-anthem-protests/#1a946e79226c

secondary blow back

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2017/09/25/von-miller-loses-denver-endorsement-kneeling-national-anthem-brandon-marshall/702366001/

Fair enough... I stand corrected.

CWSmith
10-11-2017, 10:30 AM
I saw an interview with an Iraq vet who said that he fought and risked his life not for a flag, but for what it stands for and that includes the right to protest. He was behind the players. I don't know if he agreed with them and that was not the issue.

Garret
10-11-2017, 10:30 AM
how about forbes?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed-nfl-losing-millions-of-tv-viewers-because-of-national-anthem-protests/#1a946e79226c

secondary blow back

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2017/09/25/von-miller-loses-denver-endorsement-kneeling-national-anthem-brandon-marshall/702366001/

OK - so this simply proves that we have lots of intolerant anti-patriots in the US. I guess you think we should be proud of restricting freedom.

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 10:31 AM
no one is arguing they CAN'T kneel. they're saying they don't approve of ti and are going to quit watching it. when they quit watching everyone loses money. go ask all of those athletes if they're willing to cut their salaries in half so they can keep kneeling and see how long it lasts. bottom line is, if your employers feels like you are doing somthing that hurts your business then they can fire you or discipline you in some fashion. i doubt anyone in here arguing for players rights to kneel would have ANY problem for a company firing someone bc they expressed their opinions against gay marriage.

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 10:31 AM
OK - so this simply proves that we have lots of intolerant anti-patriots in the US. I guess you think we should be proud of restricting freedom.



man, you guys just don't get it.

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 10:34 AM
I saw an interview with an Iraq vet who said that he fought and risked his life not for a flag, but for what it stands for and that includes the right to protest. He was behind the players. I don't know if he agreed with them and that was not the issue.


that's all fine and good, but for every one of those guys i can find 100 that don't share that view. no one is right or wrong. you're "free" to kneel. but your employer is free to fire you for costing them millions of dollars in revenue. do you think you would last long at your job if you were costing your employers millions of dollars due to your actions in public?

Tom Wilkinson
10-11-2017, 10:35 AM
how about forbes?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed-nfl-losing-millions-of-tv-viewers-because-of-national-anthem-protests/#1a946e79226c

secondary blow back

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2017/09/25/von-miller-loses-denver-endorsement-kneeling-national-anthem-brandon-marshall/702366001/

The NFL made this bed by taking the DOD contracts. If it costs them money, too bad. What other political stances should they force their players to take. Pro or anti abortion?? What political stances are you willing to let your employer force on you?

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 10:36 AM
The NFL made this bed by taking the DOD contracts. If it costs them money, too bad. What other political stances should they force their players to take. Pro or anti abortion?? What political stances are you willing to let your employer force on you?


yeah, the straw man!

Norman Bernstein
10-11-2017, 10:38 AM
that's all fine and good, but for every one of those guys i can find 100 that don't share that view. no one is right or wrong. you're "free" to kneel. but your employer is free to fire you for costing them millions of dollars in revenue. do you think you would last long at your job if you were costing your employers millions of dollars due to your actions in public?

This can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. When a team owner dumps a player who kneels, it depends greatly on what that player contributes to the team... if he's a star, then he's a big part of the reason that the fans tune in. When the star disappears, so will the fans... more, I suspect, than those who stopped tuning in because of the protests.

This is why this won't end well, for the NFL. The polls indicate that there is significant support for the protesting players. The question is this: are there MORE fans supporting the players, than those who oppose the protests?

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 10:41 AM
This can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. When a team owner dumps a player who kneels, it depends greatly on what that player contributes to the team... if he's a star, then he's a big part of the reason that the fans tune in. When the star disappears, so will the fans... more, I suspect, than those who stopped tuning in because of the protests.

This is why this won't end well, for the NFL. The polls indicate that there is significant support for the protesting players. The question is this: are there MORE fans supporting the players, than those who oppose the protests?



don't know the numbers on that, but just by watching the stadium footage during the anthems, i would say the 90% of the crowd standing and booing the players says there's more that don't support their actions.

George Jung
10-11-2017, 10:41 AM
This is a controversy only because Trump has co-opted it, and made it one. The flag doesn't represent the military/veterans; it represents this country, and its values. That you and yours wish to imply otherwise, is immaterial. You're buffoons.

Too Little Time
10-11-2017, 10:41 AM
No employer has the right to force me to express a political opinion. Period.
No employer has an obligation to employ you.

Considering the job market for ex-football players, https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/01/31/what-jobs-nfl-players-do-after-they-retire/#17a876665b18 , perhaps keeping a job is more important than losing a job.

Norman Bernstein
10-11-2017, 10:43 AM
i would say the 90% of the crowd standing and booing the players says there's more that don't support their actions.

90%? That has a bout as much credibility as Trump's claims about the size of his inaugural crowd.

George Jung
10-11-2017, 10:47 AM
'Hey! It was Yuuuuge! Like my hands!'

amish rob
10-11-2017, 10:48 AM
yeah, the straw man!

What about your gay marriage quip? Be honest. ;)

Here’s the deal. They aren’t saying or doing anything. If they had big banners, or were saying some horrible thing about somebody, that would be one thing.

They aren’t doing anything.

Ever been in the stands during the anthem? Most every jackdaw in the stadium is talking and texting and yoohooing about their beers and Yoo-hoo. At home, what are the “patriots” doing? Do these fans really stand in their homes for the anthem?

This is an employer forcing an employee to demonstrate a political opinion, and that is wrong. Period.

Peace,
Robert

JimD
10-11-2017, 10:48 AM
Aside from the Olympic podium, stop playing national anthems at sporting events.

amish rob
10-11-2017, 10:51 AM
No employer has an obligation to employ you.

Considering the job market for ex-football players, https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/01/31/what-jobs-nfl-players-do-after-they-retire/#17a876665b18 , perhaps keeping a job is more important than losing a job.


An employee in this country does have certain rights, though, almost as if they were a person. Once hired, that is. And, these cats operate under contracts, they don’t work at-will at Subway.

An employer cannot force an employee to demonstrate political or religious ideas. Not here.

Not yet.

Peace,
Robert

George Jung
10-11-2017, 10:51 AM
Aside from the Olympic podium, stop playing national anthems at sporting events.

That's... so rational.... so easy.... so appropriate...

Ain't got a chance in hell.

Garret
10-11-2017, 10:52 AM
An employee in this country does have certain rights, though, almost as if they were a person. Once hired, that is. And, these cats operate under contracts, they don’t work at-will at Subway.

An employer cannot force an employee to demonstrate political or religious ideas. Not here.

Not yet.

Peace,
Robert

The Reps want to change that.

Jimmy W
10-11-2017, 10:55 AM
I lack the Watching-Team-Sports Gene. My DNA is deficient.

No professional sports team has ever made a penny out of me. I don't watch any of it, I don't go to games, I don't buy the clothes and the endorsements mean nothing to me. I don't "get" it. And I'm puzzled by the obvious interest of everyone else.

Not that it bears on this case...

I also don't pay any attention except that I did watch part of the Super Bowl this year. I guess that in effect, I have been boycotting them for years.

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 10:58 AM
What about your gay marriage quip? Be honest. ;)

Here’s the deal. They aren’t saying or doing anything. If they had big banners, or were saying some horrible thing about somebody, that would be one thing.

They aren’t doing anything.

Ever been in the stands during the anthem? Most every jackdaw in the stadium is talking and texting and yoohooing about their beers and Yoo-hoo. At home, what are the “patriots” doing? Do these fans really stand in their homes for the anthem?

This is an employer forcing an employee to demonstrate a political opinion, and that is wrong. Period.

Peace,
Robert



i don't think you like that comparison :ycool:

do you think the players aren't costing the NFL money? do you think an employer should be forced to employ people that cost them money? the goal of the NFL is to put a product on the field that generates revenue. if employees are hindering your productivity, you fire them. i don't care what it's for. employee goes on anti-gay rants and makes your business look bad? fired. employee makes a large part of your customers mad by kneeling? fired.

JimD
10-11-2017, 11:00 AM
That's... so rational...

Ain't got a chance in hell. Rational rarely does :)

SKIP KILPATRICK
10-11-2017, 11:00 AM
I think very few want to stop singing the National Anthem. What is wanted is a government and a society that truly treats ALL of its citizens with fairness and respect.

It there was movement towards true equality in representation and respect for justice and civil rights, I'm sure almost all would proudly stand.

But, what we have is social and judicial inequality and a President who's built his power base on dividing not uniting.

Tom Wilkinson
10-11-2017, 11:01 AM
No employer has an obligation to employ you.

Considering the job market for ex-football players, https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/01/31/what-jobs-nfl-players-do-after-they-retire/#17a876665b18 , perhaps keeping a job is more important than losing a job.

The players have a contract with the team. Is what they are doing against that contract or not?

bamamick
10-11-2017, 11:05 AM
NFL expert Mike Florio said this morning that he thinks the players will cave if given an ultimatum, which is very freakin' sad to me. The old white men are hitting out at anything they perceive as a threat to their tenuous grasp on power, and we are all just too damn polite and well mannered to do anything about it. What's sad about it is that these players are advocating non-violence in their protests, and the actions by the administration in forcing their hand will most likely result in the opposite, with property damage and people killed or injured protesting in the streets.

And I honestly believe that's what Trump WANTS. I really believe that he sees himself as some sort of savior of the old white men class, and that he is going to 'put the ni**as down', as Randy Newman once said (satirically). He is driving a deep wedge between the people in this country who feel threatened by others who don't look or sound the way they do, and the longer it is allowed to go on the harder it will be to heal the wounds.

This is not about a flag, or about respecting God (believe me when I say that a lot of these players respect God moreso than does this President. Many of them have their heads bowed in prayer during their protest), or respecting the military (most of these guys know someone personally who has served or is serving. How many members of the President's family have done so?). This is about power. This is the old white men class trying desperately to hold on to theirs, and the young African American athletes demanding their fair share. In the end I think that Mike Florio is right, and the players will back down because this is their lives and livelihood we are talking about, but it's just delaying the inevitable. This isn't just going to go away.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
10-11-2017, 11:06 AM
The players have a contract with the team. Is what they are doing against that contract or not?

The collective bargaining agreement says that the players 'should' stand with their hands over their hearts. It does not say that they 'must' stand, and that's how this evolved into what it has.

Mickey Lake

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 11:06 AM
The players have a contract with the team. Is what they are doing against that contract or not?


well, depends on how you want to interpret this

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2017/08/11/0ap3000000828506.pdf


"Conduct by anyone in the league that is illegal, violent, dangerous, or irresponsible puts innocentvictims at risk, damages the reputation of others in the game, and undercuts public respect and support forthe NFL."

Tom Wilkinson
10-11-2017, 11:09 AM
well, depends on how you want to interpret this

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2017/08/11/0ap3000000828506.pdf


"Conduct by anyone in the league that is illegal, violent, dangerous, or irresponsible puts innocentvictims at risk, damages the reputation of others in the game, and undercuts public respect and support forthe NFL."
Except they have already allowed it to happen for more than one season and deemed it acceptable. Why politics is involved in the game at all is ridiculous.

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 11:10 AM
Except they have already allowed it to happen for more than one season and deemed it acceptable. Why politics is involved in the game at all is ridiculous.


well, it's starting to "undercut public respect" aka "cost them money"

mmd
10-11-2017, 11:19 AM
And God knows, money trumps everything in the Good Ol' USA, right?

Tom Wilkinson
10-11-2017, 11:20 AM
well, it's starting to "undercut public respect" aka "cost them money"

And that is really the American ideal that is being embraced here. Money. Freedom is just a sales pitch.

bamamick
10-11-2017, 11:20 AM
It is nothing but about the money as far as the owners and Goodell are concerned (how many realize that the commissioner gets paid about $40 MILLION dollars a year?).

It is odd how things are done in such a business. I am not 100% sure if it's still this way, but if you played for the Yankees you were never allowed to have facial hair. It was just a team rule, and if you signed up for the team that was the way it was. And they always got away with it.

Mickey Lake

amish rob
10-11-2017, 11:22 AM
i don't think you like that comparison :ycool:

do you think the players aren't costing the NFL money? do you think an employer should be forced to employ people that cost them money? the goal of the NFL is to put a product on the field that generates revenue. if employees are hindering your productivity, you fire them. i don't care what it's for. employee goes on anti-gay rants and makes your business look bad? fired. employee makes a large part of your customers mad by kneeling? fired.

Oh, the gay marriage thing? Well, I do abhor anti-gay sentiment, and I do have a cousin who has been happily married for some years to the same man. They are wonderful people.

Really, though, I was just calling you out on your own straw man. :) Hehe.

But football players? Yes. Fire them all. Fire every football player.

Typical that management does not understand money is made by labor.

No football players, no money.

Peace,
William Inge :)

amish rob
10-11-2017, 11:23 AM
And God knows, money trumps everything in the Good Ol' USA, right?
Yes. Absolutely.

It sickens my soul to know it is true, but it is.

Peace,
Robert

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 11:26 AM
Oh, the gay marriage thing? Well, I do abhor anti-gay sentiment, and I do have a cousin who,has been happily married for some years to the same man. They are wonderful people.

Really, though, I was just calling you out on your own straw man. :) Hehe.

But football players? Yes. Fire them all. Fire every football player.

Typical that management does not understand money is made by labor.

No football players, no money.

Peace,
William Inge :)


well anti-gay sentiment is abhorrent, but that's not the point. what we're seeing here is the people that would be demanding for the firing of someone for that "political view" are all happy with this political view being expressed bc they share the same views.

as far as firing them all, you wouldn't have to. fire ONE and watch them do whatever they can to keep that high paying job.

JimD
10-11-2017, 11:28 AM
I think very few want to stop singing the National Anthem...Agreed few want to stop but that is mainly because we've all been doing it all our lives. If city based sports teams had been starting games with team anthems to boost civic pride for decades we'd all be just as attached to continuing with that tradition.

amish rob
10-11-2017, 11:35 AM
well anti-gay sentiment is abhorrent, but that's not the point. what we're seeing here is the people that would be demanding for the firing of someone for that "political view" are all happy with this political view being expressed bc they share the same views.

as far as firing them all, you wouldn't have to. fire ONE and watch them do whatever they can to keep that high paying job.


Can you really not see the difference between being “anti gay marriage” and kneeling to draw attention to the “racial inequality” in our country?
Because the protest is about the way black people are treated.

See, maybe, MAYBE, I can understand a person being anti-gay, especially if their rationale is based on religious values.
But, I can NEVER understand being anti-anyone because of their skin color.

That, to me, is the difference.

Peace,
Robert

P.S. I’ve never seen this kneeling behavior. I only know of it through the news. Me no really likey American Football.

Norman Bernstein
10-11-2017, 11:37 AM
as far as firing them all, you wouldn't have to. fire ONE and watch them do whatever they can to keep that high paying job.

Nobody is going to be fired... because there will not be just one who kneels. Do you REALLY think that a team owner is going to bench a dozen players at the same time for kneeling? :)

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 11:40 AM
Can you really not see the difference between being “anti gay marriage” and kneeling to draw attention to the “racial inequality” in our country?
Because the protest is about the way black people are treated.

See, maybe, MAYBE, I can understand a person being anti-gay, especially if their rationale is based on religious values.
But, I can NEVER understand being anti-anyone because of their skin color.

That, to me, is the difference.

Peace,
Robert

P.S. I’ve never seen this kneeling behavior. I only know of it through the news. Me no really likey American Football.


the only thing i see is people of different view points agreeing with it or not based on their own view points. i have the view point that they are free to kneel, and the owners are free to fire them for costing them money. i have the view point that if you publicly put out views that are detrimental to your employers bottom line, then they should be able to fire you.

would you force employers to employ people that hurt their business?

you have to think, there's a LARGE portion of the country that feels like kneeling on their anthem is disrespecting them.

CWSmith
10-11-2017, 11:42 AM
Nobody is going to be fired... because there will not be just one who kneels. Do you REALLY think that a team owner is going to bench a dozen players at the same time for kneeling? :)

Given that some team owners have knelt with their players before the anthem and then they all stood for the anthem, I suspect we will see a lot more of that. And it will be amusing to see what complaint the Narcissist in Chief can make of that!

amish rob
10-11-2017, 11:53 AM
the only thing i see is people of different view points agreeing with it or not based on their own view points. i have the view point that they are free to kneel, and the owners are free to fire them for costing them money. i have the view point that if you publicly put out views that are detrimental to your employers bottom line, then they should be able to fire you.

would you force employers to employ people that hurt their business?

you have to think, there's a LARGE portion of the country that feels like kneeling on their anthem is disrespecting them.

If my boss tried to make me express a political view, I would refuse. If he fired me, it would be wrong of him.

Has any player failed to fulfill their duties on field? Deliberately lost a game? The game is what matters.

Michael Irving is in the Hall of Fame, and he had a bad drug and hooker problem. Shouldn’t he have been fired for making the NFL look bad? What about the animal that beat his lady and dragged her out of the elevator?

Right. It’s all about the image of the NFL. Sure. I believe that.

Peace,
Worker’s Rights! :d

AlanMc
10-11-2017, 12:11 PM
If my boss tried to make me express a political view, I would refuse. If he fired me, it would be wrong of him.

Has any player failed to fulfill their duties on field? Deliberately lost a game? The game is what matters.

Michael Irving is in the Hall of Fame, and he had a bad drug and hooker problem. Shouldn’t he have been fired for making the NFL look bad? What about the animal that beat his lady and dragged her out of the elevator?

Right. It’s all about the image of the NFL. Sure. I believe that.

Peace,
Worker’s Rights! :d


that's a very idealistic and naive view of what the NFL does. the NFL sells tickets and advertising. sure, winning games is part of it. but suggesting that's all that matters in terms of revenue is not the reality.

if this was still just the one guy sitting, it wouldn't be a big deal. most people would say "eff that guy" and keep watching. but now people are turning it off and that costs money. LOTS of money.