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View Full Version : Trump says Puerto Ricans 'want everything done for them'



Norman Bernstein
10-01-2017, 09:18 AM
He would know.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DK_L1dAUMAA7EcH.jpg

Arizona Bay
10-01-2017, 09:42 AM
Buncha "politically motivated ingrates"!

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 11:15 AM
I'm not going to defend the guy, but why are there 1000 trucks at the docks loaded and ready to go and they can't find drivers? I just don't understand that.

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2017, 11:19 AM
I'm not going to defend the guy, but why are there 1000 trucks at the docks loaded and ready to go and they can't find drivers? I just don't understand that.Are the roads all passable?

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 11:22 AM
^ "All"?

Do you remember the nun down in Florida helping to clear the roads? We're not seeing that. The general down there said they could clear 5 miles of road a day by hand.

I know there are infrastructure problems, but I think we should see 200 truck drivers standing at the gate wanting to drive and the people down there say they don't have any. It's not right.

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2017, 11:28 AM
^ "All"?

Do you remember the nun down in Florida helping to clear the roads? We're not seeing that. The general down there said they could clear 5 miles of road a day by hand.

I know there are infrastructure problems, but I think we should see 200 truck drivers standing at the gate wanting to drive and the people down there say they don't have any. It's not right.Maybe they are just standing around with their hands in their pockets waiting for the roads to be passable. I question very much that there presently that many. I do note that it appears that the residents are doing apparently most of the work to clear them themselves.

Tom Wilkinson
10-01-2017, 11:33 AM
I'm not going to defend the guy, but why are there 1000 trucks at the docks loaded and ready to go and they can't find drivers? I just don't understand that.

I'm sure there are a myriad of reasons why there may not be enough truck drivers. Caring for family? No way to get to work? They live in flooded out sections of town? No communication so they don't even no they need to be there?? Who knows. I'm not going to judge them with no information.

Chris Smith porter maine
10-01-2017, 11:46 AM
It's been ten days I would have thought we could have sent them a couple of plane loads of US army truck drivers by now.

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 11:48 AM
I'm sure there are a myriad of reasons why there may not be enough truck drivers. Caring for family? No way to get to work? They live in flooded out sections of town? No communication so they don't even no they need to be there?? Who knows. I'm not going to judge them with no information.

Well, here is some information for you.

There are 3.4 million people in Puerto Rico. There are 1000 trucks with badly needed supplies sitting on the docks. They need 300 drivers out of 3.4M people and can't find them.

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 11:49 AM
It's been ten days I would have thought we could have sent them a couple of plane loads of US army truck drivers by now.

I don't doubt it for a moment. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You know the joke that goes "Lord, why don't you save me from this flood...?"

What Puerto Rico needs is more nuns with chain saws.

Jimmy W
10-01-2017, 11:57 AM
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/hurricane-maria-puerto-rico-gty-jt-170930_4x3_992.jpg

http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/hurricane-maria-puerto-rico-2-pol-jt-170924_4x3_992.jpg

https://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/puerto-rico-hurricane-maria-ap-img.jpg?scale=896&compress=80

Chris Smith porter maine
10-01-2017, 12:06 PM
If Trump won't help it seems that the teamsters will

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/30/news/teamsters-union-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria/index.html

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 12:23 PM
For the Commander In Chief to get up off his lazy, racist, psychotic ass, and help those people.

What Puerto Rico needs is an actual, US President.

Like O'Bama.

No argument from me. But let's be honest, the Republican Party has not been strong on relief efforts for a long time now. He is not the first.


If Trump won't help it seems that the teamsters will

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/30/news/teamsters-union-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria/index.html

Good story! It won't keep the GOP from demagoguing unions, but good for them!

Tom Wilkinson
10-01-2017, 12:27 PM
No argument from me. But let's be honest, the Republican Party has not been strong on relief efforts for a long time now. He is not the first.



Good story! It won't keep the GOP from demagoguing unions, but good for them!

It is a good story but in that article even the union is saying they don't know if there are even trucks available, fuel for the trucks, or passable roads to distribution centers.

We have the resources to make those logistics happen. Are we using them? Should we be using them?

LeeG
10-01-2017, 12:38 PM
^ "All"?

Do you remember the nun down in Florida helping to clear the roads? We're not seeing that. The general down there said they could clear 5 miles of road a day by hand.

I know there are infrastructure problems, but I think we should see 200 truck drivers standing at the gate wanting to drive and the people down there say they don't have any. It's not right.

Something to consider is that the bottleneck is comprised of multiple parts. Not just a shortage of drivers or nuns with chainsaws. While all roads need clearing there are places where the road is washed out or the road unsafe or impassable. For the roads that are clear is there diesel at the terminal and other end to refuel trucks. Out of the truck drivers on the island how many are not injured, dehydrated or caring for the emergency at home or stuck far from the terminal. How many local trucks need repair or are out of service from the hurricane?
Seems to me the ability of local services to meet an emergency is severely hampered when those emergency services are without water and power. Imagine how your local fire dept or police could handle an emergency when they haven't slept, their refrigeration and AC is knocked out. Their generators are out of fuel. The next shift can't get to the station. The consumables in an ambulance unit run out.

LeeG
10-01-2017, 12:41 PM
It is a good story but in that article even the union is saying they don't know if there are even trucks available, fuel for the trucks, or passable roads to distribution centers.

We have the resources to make those logistics happen. Are we using them? Should we be using them?

I suppose some trucks would have been driven to high ground but looking at the damage to buildings and roads I could imagine some trucks would be damaged enough to be unreliable.

stromborg
10-01-2017, 12:43 PM
This explanation from CNN last Thursday makes sense to me:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/us/puerto-rico-aid-problem/index.html


Part of the reason for the distribution backlog is that only 20% of truck drivers have reported back to work since Hurricane Maria swept through, (http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/us/hurricane-maria-puerto-rico/index.html) according to a representative for Puerto Rican Gov. Ricardo Rosselló.
On top of that, a diesel fuel shortage and a tangle of blocked roads mean the distribution of supplies is extremely challenging. Even contacting drivers is a problem because cell towers are still down.


I think it is a very complicated and tragic situation that is simply going to take a long time to sort out. Sounds like what they need right now is a fleet of bulldozers to plow paths through the wreckage...but I'm reasonably sure that is an oversimplification of how one goes about the task. From what I've heard and seen on TV the people of Puerto Rico are working their collective butts off to survive. trump talking smack about them while riding around in his golf cart isn't going to help the situation.

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 12:46 PM
Believe me, I am not minimizing the problem or excusing Trump's poor response.

I am more than amazed that we have the ability to meet the needs of 3.4M people who live off shore, but it seems that we do and we are not doing well.

I may not be giving the people of Puerto Rico the credit they are do. I'm just wondering about some of the news stories I have read and wondering why?

As for fuel, I have seen news stories about people waiting in line for gas. It's in short supply, but after a day or two they get it for their cars. If fuel is needed for those trucks, then use for the trucks!

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2017, 12:51 PM
Believe me, I am not minimizing the problem or excusing Trump's poor response.

I am more than amazed that we have the ability to meet the needs of 3.4M people who live off shore, but it seems that we do and we are not doing well.

I may not be giving the people of Puerto Rico the credit they are do. I'm just wondering about some of the news stories I have read and wondering why?

As for fuel, I have seen news stories about people waiting in line for gas. It's in short supply, but after a day or two they get it for their cars. If fuel is needed for those trucks, then use for the trucks!I suspect that the trucks use diesel.

Chip-skiff
10-01-2017, 01:02 PM
He could at least look busy.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_small/public/thumbnails/image/2017/01/19/11/trump-golf3.jpg

Hwyl
10-01-2017, 01:04 PM
It's simplistic to think that "the thousand truck loads" in <San Juan can solve the problem. Trump, and some members of this board, seem to hold the blatantly racist view that the Puerto Ricans are incapable of helping themselves. I am certain this is not true. I am sure that they are helping themselves and each other. It's a territory of 3,500 square miles, with mountains, rivers and former rain forest.

The lack of truck drivers story, is just a joke, for horses arse racists to latch on to there are many other ports, other than San Juan, these could be air drops, helicopters or myriad other ways to distribute this stuff

LeeG
10-01-2017, 01:09 PM
CWSmith, I think the comparison to recovery on the mainland misses a simple fact that Puerto Rico does not have the mainlands infrastructure. It's substandard to begin with and now it's pretty much gone. On the mainland you can have well rested drivers delivering fuel and repair supplies over roads that aren't washed out. Road repair crews can drive a hundred miles to repair roads. Down there the road repair services are affected.

A comparison might be a Carrington sized event that hits North America and blows out the power grid and transformers that take months to replace.

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2017, 01:10 PM
It's simplistic to think that "the thousand truck loads" in <San Juan can solve the problem. Trump, and some members of this board, seem to hold the blatantly racist view that the Puerto Ricans are incapable of helping themselves. I am certain this is not true. I am sure that they are helping themselves and each other. It's a territory of 3,500 square miles, with mountains, rivers and former rain forest.

The lack of truck drivers story, is just a joke, for horses arse racists to latch on to there are many other ports, other than San Juan, these could be air drops, helicopters or myriad other ways to distribute this stuffI totally agree Gareth!

Hwyl
10-01-2017, 01:19 PM
I totally agree Gareth!

Thanks Jamie, you know I don't usually touch Norm's threads, but my kids are Puerto Rican.

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2017, 01:24 PM
Thanks Jamie, you know I don't usually touch Norm's threads, but my kids are Puerto Rican.I knew or suspected that Gareth. I recall a few pictures you've posted.

LeeG
10-01-2017, 01:35 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/01/politics/trump-tweets-puerto-rico/index.html

Trump's willingness to divide, to turn every situation in which he is questioned or criticized into an "us" vs "them" is well documented by now. The 2016 election was an 18-month master class in how to divide the country for your own political gain. Trump's handling of the white supremacist violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, and his deliberate decision to pick a fight with (mostly black) NFL players over the national anthem illustrate that same perpetual need to divide.
That default divisiveness makes Trump different than every person who has held the office before him. For the 43 previous presidents, their ultimate goal was to find ways to remind people in the country of our common humanity, to take the high road, to appeal to our better angels. Many of them missed that mark -- often badly -- but it was always their North Star.
It is not for Trump. Not close. For Trump, the lone goal is winning at all costs. If that means attacking the mayor of San Juan even as Puerto Rico faces a historic recovery challenge, so be it. If it means blaming Puerto Rico's debt and infrastructure issues even as people are desperately searching for their loved ones, well, that's just how it goes. If it means trying to build the media up as a scapegoat to cover up a slower-than-ideal response to Maria's aftermath? Consider it done!

18 tweets. 11 hours. Full of blame, anger and victimhood. Totally devoid of hope, inspiration or unity.
This is Trumpism.

Nicholas Scheuer
10-01-2017, 01:45 PM
Remember, the Cajun Navy had bookoo trailerable boats and trucks fueled with plenty of gasoline (brought from home), and good highways on which to tow them.

Chris Smith porter maine
10-01-2017, 05:35 PM
Believe me, I am not minimizing the problem or excusing Trump's poor response.

I am more than amazed that we have the ability to meet the needs of 3.4M people who live off shore, but it seems that we do and we are not doing well.

I may not be giving the people of Puerto Rico the credit they are do. I'm just wondering about some of the news stories I have read and wondering why?

As for fuel, I have seen news stories about people waiting in line for gas. It's in short supply, but after a day or two they get it for their cars. If fuel is needed for those trucks, then use for the trucks!

Those would be Americans that live on an island. Did you miss what Obama did for Haiti and how quickly.

Chris Smith porter maine
10-01-2017, 05:38 PM
Let me add I hope should something happen to the people of New Hampshire we might try a bit harder....

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 06:06 PM
Those would be Americans that live on an island. Did you miss what Obama did for Haiti and how quickly.

Their nationality has nothing to do with my amazement that we can move supplies for 3.4M people. Also, the reporters down there are not returning with the same get-it-done stories we heard out of Texas and Florida and I find that unusual (or are all reporters racists?).

Maybe you could explain why they are selling gas to private citizens if they don't have enough to move critical supplies? That's not a prejudicial question. It just makes sense.


Let me add I hope should something happen to the people of New Hampshire we might try a bit harder....

You bet your ass it would. Do I have to remind you of our governor's last name? I can also tell you this place would be moving before the feds got here if for no other reason than to tell the feds off when they do arrive.

Chris Smith porter maine
10-01-2017, 06:38 PM
Their nationality has nothing to do with my amazement that we can move supplies for 3.4M people. Also, the reporters down there are not returning with the same get-it-done stories we heard out of Texas and Florida and I find that unusual (or are all reporters racists?).

Maybe you could explain why they are selling gas to private citizens if they don't have enough to move critical supplies? That's not a prejudicial question. It just makes sense.



You bet your ass it would. Do I have to remind you of our governor's last name? I can also tell you this place would be moving before the feds got here if for no other reason than to tell the feds off when they do arrive.

Ah your governor last name, sir we had 20k people in Haiti in two days, we don't seem to be able to send them a few truck drivers in over a week.

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 06:40 PM
Ah your governor last name, sir we had 20k people in Haiti in two days, we don't seem to be able to send them a few truck drivers in over a week.

Like I've said here at least 3 times on this thread alone, I am not defending Trump. I am asking a question. You don't need to answer it, but not every uncomfortable question needs the same political answer.

Chris Smith porter maine
10-01-2017, 06:47 PM
OK so l will bet you a beer once the island and media opens up we will here about many Puerto Rican peeps that actually acted like your nun.

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 06:51 PM
OK so l will bet you a beer once the island and media opens up we will here about many Puerto Rican peeps that actually acted like your nun.

I hope and think you are probably right. I also suspect we will hear that Puerto Rico has too much in common with New Orleans when their hurricane hit. By that, I mean incompetence. Remember all those buses sitting there and not moving because they had no drivers? This is not about race or culture. It's about society and the choices we make long before the disaster hits.

Daniel Noyes
10-01-2017, 06:53 PM
Seems like puerto Rico may have endured a direct hit from a Major Hurricane!... and that coupled with generally aknowledged crumbling infrastructure has made for a difficult situation all around. There has aparently been alot of effort put into the response but more effort needs to be made.
getting into a he said she said about the number of Truck Drivers willing to show up for work or hypothesizing about what the Millitary could or could not do just sounds silly to me.

it seems that sowing dischord and trying to turn the recovery effort into a political foot ball just when we need a robust bipartisan team response is just the
WRONG
thing to be doing.

Political Partisans, Left wing loonies desperate to score political victory points by exploiting a difficult situation...

which brings me directly to the OP, a disgusting and deliberately misleading, misrepresentation and mangling of the bumbling comments made by Trumpy.

Daniel Noyes
10-01-2017, 06:56 PM
Ah your governor last name, sir we had 20k people in Haiti in two days, we don't seem to be able to send them a few truck drivers in over a week.

If they cant find drivers in a island of over 1,000,000 people, who will unload the aid trucks once they reach their destination?

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 07:00 PM
it seems that sowing dischord and trying to turn the recovery effort into a political foot ball just when we need a robust bipartisan team response is just the
WRONG
thing to be doing.


Almost sounds reasonable.



Political Partisans, Left wing loonies desperate to score political victory points by exploiting a difficult situation...


And that brings us to the partisan political comment we have come to expect.



which brings me directly to the OP, a disgusting and deliberately misleading, misrepresentation and mangling of the bumbling comments made by Trumpy.

And in the end the usual nasty comment and misdirection that sums up all your posts.

LeeG
10-01-2017, 07:07 PM
"Trumpy"...?

Daniel Noyes
10-01-2017, 07:10 PM
isnt that what this thread/ OP is about? scoring political points using the difficulties of the rescue relief effort as ammunition? an attempt to weaponize a natural disaster for partisan gain?

I heard the host on NPR doing it this morning she practically got into an argument with the Rep to congress from Puerto Rico because the woman was not attacking the Trump administration enough, and she actually said that the administration was working hard and had been very helpful...

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2017, 07:27 PM
isnt that what this thread/ OP is about? scoring political points using the difficulties of the rescue relief effort as ammunition? an attempt to weaponize a natural disaster for partisan gain?

I heard the host on NPR doing it this morning she practically got into an argument with the Rep to congress from Puerto Rico because the woman was not attacking the Trump administration enough, and she actually said that the administration was working hard and had been very helpful...LINK if you have one from a reliable source please!

CWSmith
10-01-2017, 07:28 PM
isnt that what this thread/ OP is about? scoring political points using the difficulties of the rescue relief effort as ammunition? an attempt to weaponize a natural disaster for partisan gain?

That's not been my reading. Scoring points does not solve problems. Raising awareness can solve problems. You are always welcome to prove that Trump is doing a great job. So far you have not.



I heard the host on NPR doing it this morning she practically got into an argument with the Rep to congress from Puerto Rico because the woman was not attacking the Trump administration enough, and she actually said that the administration was working hard and had been very helpful...

That is not here, she is not us, and your thinking is muddy.

I'm breaking my own rule. What I meant to say is "Ignore".

Daniel Noyes
10-01-2017, 07:35 PM
LINK if you have one from a reliable source please!

sorry it was a radio interview, aired on NPR WBUR boston about 10 20 am this morning (10/1/17)

the NPR interviewer kept interrupting the Puerto Rican US Representative trying to contradict her version of the recovery efforts.

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2017, 07:37 PM
sorry it was a radio interview, aired on NPR WBUR boston about 10 20 am this morning (10/1/17)

the NPR interviewer kept interrupting the Puerto Rican US Representative trying to contradict her version of the recovery efforts.There we go, Daniel doesn't have a link. Figures! What was it, Limbag?I listen toNPR a lot. I didn't hear the same garbage you did. I doubt you listen to NPR anyway, why would you?

Daniel Noyes
10-01-2017, 07:42 PM
There we go, Daniel doesn't have a link. Figures! What was it, Limbag?I listen toNPR a lot. I didn't hear the same garbage you did. I doubt you listen to NPR anyway, why would you?

my car radio is broken... I'm stuck with NPR or static.

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2017, 07:45 PM
I'm sorry that your station doesn't carry Rush, your life must be really hard for you to deal with.You must be really pe'od not getting what you think isn't fake news.

Tom Lathrop
10-01-2017, 08:04 PM
isnt that what this thread/ OP is about? scoring political points using the difficulties of the rescue relief effort as ammunition? an attempt to weaponize a natural disaster for partisan gain?

I heard the host on NPR doing it this morning she practically got into an argument with the Rep to congress from Puerto Rico because the woman was not attacking the Trump administration enough, and she actually said that the administration was working hard and had been very helpful...

The OP simply quoted Trump and made no political points of his own whatever. You just inserted your own to misdirect the conversation as usual.

Tom Lathrop
10-01-2017, 08:09 PM
Seems like puerto Rico may have endured a direct hit from a Major Hurricane!... and that coupled with generally aknowledged crumbling infrastructure has made for a difficult situation all around. There has aparently been alot of effort put into the response but more effort needs to be made.
getting into a he said she said about the number of Truck Drivers willing to show up for work or hypothesizing about what the Millitary could or could not do just sounds silly to me.

it seems that sowing dischord and trying to turn the recovery effort into a political foot ball just when we need a robust bipartisan team response is just the
WRONG
thing to be doing.

Political Partisans, Left wing loonies desperate to score political victory points by exploiting a difficult situation...

which brings me directly to the OP, a disgusting and deliberately misleading, misrepresentation and mangling of the bumbling comments made by Trumpy.

What a narrow and very sharp filter you must have that magically transforms whatever Trump says in to something actually that makes sense.

Rich Jones
10-01-2017, 08:17 PM
Trump's biggest weakness is his inability to not viciously attack anyone who is critical of him. People are always critical of their elected officials. The smart ones know to react in a diplomatic manner and not bark like a mad dog. Trump will never learn this lesson.

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2017, 08:34 PM
Hey Daniel, what does it take for you to realize that Trump, at best, is a flaming idiot? I mean, what makes you think that he's even a good one. You spend your time defending him but, what has he actually done? I really am tired of the garbage I have to wade through mostly perpetuated by this fool, why don't you get it?

Hwyl
10-01-2017, 08:45 PM
So, I'm a racist.

I think your antipathy is rather misplaced.

I, too, am sure the Puerto Ricans are helping themselves.

Whatever bumbling piece of spit Trump has 'running' this show has no idea how to do it.

O'Bama knew how to do it.


You call up the US Army and send the beach landers in. Ships that can land anywhere, set tons and tons of heavy equipment, fuel, food and clean water anywhere on the freaking PLANET in a matter of two days.

Getting those supplies to Puerto Rico is child's play.


All those Puerto Ricans are NOT going to survive this, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with their willingness to help themselves.


A man trapped under a shipping container full of metal, and the water rising to drown him, certainly has the willingness to help himself. He's gonna die anyway.
i was not directing it at you John

skuthorp
10-02-2017, 12:08 AM
Daniel attempting distraction again…………
Who'd a thunk it…………….

LeeG
10-02-2017, 06:18 AM
Speaking of distraction, DoNald goes full Borowitz.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VFH6jps9Zsk&ebc=ANyPxKq4Z3hYKlNk1HH8W2sLW-rpyUYd1NGTYGU2GvMnubcAS0zgy1RHa7TU_8CGMtyCYcZflgUc DS70upr1I3EsSiEi7KPnaQ


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/353355-trump-dedicates-golf-trophy-to-puerto-rico-hurricane-victims

On behalf of all of the people of Texas, and all of the people -- if you look today and see what is happening, how horrible it is but we have it under really great control -- Puerto Rico and the people of Florida who have really suffered over this last short period of time with the hurricanes, I want to just remember them," the president said.

"And we're going to dedicate this trophy to all of those people that went through so much that we love -- a part of our great state, really part of our great nation," he continued.

LeeG
10-02-2017, 08:14 AM
Why the delay? DT had to play golf.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lost-weekend-how-trumps-time-at-his-golf-club-hurt-the-response-to-maria/2017/09/29/ce92ed0a-a522-11e7-8c37-e1d99ad6aa22_story.html?utm_term=.9cdad34af631

At first, the Trump administration seemed to be doing all the right things to respond to the disaster in Puerto Rico.

As Hurricane Maria made landfall on Wednesday, Sept. 20, there was a frenzy of activity publicly and privately. The next day, President Trump called local officials on the island, issued an emergency declaration and pledged that all federal resources would be directed to help.

But then for four days after that — as storm-ravaged Puerto Rico struggled for food and water amid the darkness of power outages — Trump and his top aides effectively went dark themselves.

Trump jetted to New Jersey that Thursday night to spend a long weekend at his private golf club there, save for a quick trip to Alabama for a political rally. Neither Trump nor any of his senior White House aides said a word publicly about the unfolding crisis.
....

Gerarddm
10-02-2017, 08:21 AM
Jeez, the Marines are experts at getting tons of gear ashore at short notice. Hit the beaches! Establish a beach head or two, work out from there.

mmd
10-02-2017, 08:51 AM
I noticed in the news this morning that there are photos of the US Marines (I think) distributing emergency supplies in PR via helicopter. This is the first photo evidence of this that I've seen, and I would have thought that if it had been on-going for some time that there would have been news stories about it before this morning. Interesting that this evidence of care surfaces the day before Mr. Trump says he will visit the island. Just sayin'...

LeeG
10-02-2017, 09:23 AM
Check out the video

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trapped-in-the-mountains-puerto-ricans-dont-see-help-or-a-way-out/2017/10/01/7621867e-a647-11e7-ade1-76d061d56efa_story.html?utm_term=.0c020f441e64


An unknown number of families are still trapped in this part of Utuado, much of which is inaccessible nearly two weeks after the storm. From the air it is clear why: Mountaintop houses are surrounded by landslides, shredded structures are scattered down mountain slopes, and residents in some areas could be seen waving frantically for help as a helicopter passed.

Some of the homes are so remote and in such rugged terrain that getting to them requires extraordinary effort by helicopter or all-terrain vehicle. Pilots can’t land in many nearby spots, making it unclear how authorities will reach people before the road infrastructure is repaired, which could take months. Residents are cut off from civilization, in some places at least a four-hour walk to the nearest store.

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 09:54 AM
I noticed in the news this morning that there are photos of the US Marines (I think) distributing emergency supplies in PR via helicopter. This is the first photo evidence of this that I've seen, and I would have thought that if it had been on-going for some time that there would have been news stories about it before this morning. Interesting that this evidence of care surfaces the day before Mr. Trump says he will visit the island. Just sayin'...

The Navy and Marines have been providing emergency supplies, services, and medical care throughout the regions affected by the hurricanes since day 1. It doesn't fit the mainstream media's "Hate America First" narrative to tell you about that.

U.S. Military Support to Hurricanes Irma and Maria Relief in the Eastern Caribbean (Link) (http://www.southcom.mil/Media/Special-Coverage/US-Military-Support-to-Hurricane-Irma-Relief-in-the-Eastern-Caribbean/)

S.V. Airlie
10-02-2017, 10:00 AM
The Navy and Marines have been providing emergency supplies, services, and medical care throughout the regions affected by the hurricanes since day 1. It doesn't fit the mainstream media's "Hate America First" narrative to tell you about that.

U.S. Military Support to Hurricanes Irma and Maria Relief in the Eastern Caribbean (Link) (http://www.southcom.mil/Media/Special-Coverage/US-Military-Support-to-Hurricane-Irma-Relief-in-the-Eastern-Caribbean/)In the 1st paragraph, Puerto Rico isn't even listed!

LeeG
10-02-2017, 10:02 AM
The Navy and Marines have been providing emergency supplies, services, and medical care throughout the regions affected by the hurricanes since day 1. It doesn't fit the mainstream media's "Hate America First" narrative to tell you about that.

U.S. Military Support to Hurricanes Irma and Maria Relief in the Eastern Caribbean (Link) (http://www.southcom.mil/Media/Special-Coverage/US-Military-Support-to-Hurricane-Irma-Relief-in-the-Eastern-Caribbean/)

MSM "Hate America First" narrative. It would be enlightening to hear what media sources you follow that don't have that narrative.

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 10:47 AM
In the 1st paragraph, Puerto Rico isn't even listed!

https://www.defense.gov/News/Special-Reports/DoD-Hurricane-Relief/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1330657/dod-continues-to-provide-more-response-capacity-to-puerto-rico/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1330602/dod-boosts-personnel-aiding-hurricane-relief-efforts-in-puerto-rico/

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 10:52 AM
MSM "Hate America First" narrative. It would be enlightening to hear what media sources you follow that don't have that narrative.

Hyperbolic? Yes. Close to true? Yes. I'm just tired of seeing what used to be respectable news sources turn everything into an anti-Trump/anti-Republican screed.* Sorry if I touched a nerve.

*Not that either is worthy of much support right now, but there is a time and place for that, and reporting on a natural disaster is *not* it.

S.V. Airlie
10-02-2017, 11:02 AM
https://www.defense.gov/News/Special-Reports/DoD-Hurricane-Relief/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1330657/dod-continues-to-provide-more-response-capacity-to-puerto-rico/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1330602/dod-boosts-personnel-aiding-hurricane-relief-efforts-in-puerto-rico/I'm glad they are FINALLY there but, I have doubts about it being day 1. Maybe day 6, or 7. or 9. I note also that much of the language starts off with, "We will be adding this" or "We will be doing this" Well, I'm glad they will be adding these. Bottom line, I think both are improving on their presence but, I doubt it was day 1 when they started as you imply.

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 11:13 AM
In http://robbwhite.com/i/flotsam.and.jetsam.cover.100.jpg (http://robbwhite.com/)Flotsam and Jetsam, Robb White has some stories about his tour of duty in the Navy in Puerto Rico. He admired and celebrated the people's creative can-do-it-iveness in making do with what was available. A couple of my squadron-mates were from the island, and were great guys. I very much doubt they are sitting around waiting for a handout, and it makes me sad and angry to see them denigrated in that way.

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 11:20 AM
I'm glad they are FINALLY there but, I have doubts about it being day 1. Maybe day 6, or 7. or 9. I note also that much of the language starts off with, "We will be adding this" or "We will be doing this" Well, I'm glad they will be adding these. Bottom line, I think both are improving on their presence but, I doubt it was day 1 when they started as you imply.

Sept. 12, 2017 — SOTO CANO AIR BASE, Honduras --Over 300 U.S. service members temporarily based in Honduras are poised to respond to Hurricane Irma in the eastern Caribbean Sea, at the request of the U.S. Agency for International Development - Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance.

U.S. Forces prepare to support foreign Hurricane Irma relief in Caribbean (LINK) (http://www.southcom.mil/News/PressReleases/Article/1313424/release-us-forces-prepare-to-support-foreign-hurricane-irma-relief-in-caribbean/)

LeeG
10-02-2017, 12:01 PM
Hyperbolic? Yes. Close to true? Yes. I'm just tired of seeing what used to be respectable news sources turn everything into an anti-Trump/anti-Republican screed.* Sorry if I touched a nerve.

*Not that either is worthy of much support right now, but there is a time and place for that, and reporting on a natural disaster is *not* it.

You didn't touch a nerve, just curious given your statement that the MSM has a "hate America first" narrative what media sources you use that don't "hate America first".

Breakaway
10-02-2017, 01:38 PM
You call up the US Army and send the beach landers in. Ships that can land anywhere, set tons and tons of heavy equipment, fuel, food and clean water anywhere on the freaking PLANET in a matter of two days.

OZ, once they get the landing ship to the beach, it's the same problem--distributing the supplies.

In fact, I believe the ports in Puerto Rico are open, so beach landings are not necessary. Getting supplies TO Puerto Rico is not the biggest hurdle. Getting supplies AROUND Puerto Rico is the challenge. See above about washed out roads, rainforest, mountains, etc.

Kevin

Barry
10-02-2017, 02:16 PM
OZ, once they get the landing ship to the beach, it's the same problem--distributing the supplies.

In fact, I believe the ports in Puerto Rico are open, so beach landings are not necessary. Getting supplies TO Puerto Rico is not the biggest hurdle. Getting supplies AROUND Puerto Rico is the challenge. See above about washed out roads, rainforest, mountains, etc.

Kevin


The Marine Corps has Mule corps, stationed in NC and CA with trained Mule packers and handlers..(Re-established in the 80's). 10 Mules can deliver 2500- 3000 lbs of materials and equipment to any where on the Island within a day. In addition Navy corpsman are trained in the usage of Mules to extract the ill and wounded from inaccessible areas using mules. Can be deployed using landing craft on any beach. No diesel, no heavy equipment, low tech solution.

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 04:04 PM
You didn't touch a nerve, just curious given your statement that the MSM has a "hate America first" narrative what media sources you use that don't "hate America first".

I just try to trace a story back to an original source,- a science paper, an official source, a person directly involved, someone with boots on the ground at the point of origin. When the political content starts getting thin, I figure I'm close.

ahp
10-02-2017, 04:15 PM
The United States Army has trucks. They have drivers. Does not the United States Army know how to build temporary bridges very fast? I suspect that all it takes is the word from the POTUS "GO".

CWSmith
10-02-2017, 04:16 PM
The United States Army has trucks. They have drivers. Does not the United States Army know how to build temporary bridges very fast? I suspect that all it takes is the word from the POTUS "GO".

With every day that goes by the lack of response grows more unacceptable.

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 04:27 PM
The ships can deliver bulldozers, track loaders , concrete mixers, and helicopters.

They didn't.


SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico, Oct. 2, 2017 —Air National Guard units from Puerto Rico, Illinois and Wisconsin teamed up to restore Federal Aviation Administration-managed air traffic control operations on Puerto Rico as part of response efforts in the wake of Hurricane Maria's devastation on the island.

Maria made landfall in Puerto Rico on Sept. 20 and destroyed a key generator used by the FAA to power its control center that directs aircraft movement in and around the island. The FAA's San Juan Center is responsible for directing the movement not only civilian and military aircraft for takeoff and landing at the island's airports, but also any aircraft flying in the vicinity.

"Thanks to our relationship with the Puerto Rico Air National Guard,they were able to provide us with the assistance we needed to get back up and running, and now the Air National Guard is supporting us with redundancy as a backup now that power is restored to our building," said Edward Tirado, an operations manager with the FAA in Puerto Rico.

Air Traffic Control Curtailed

The loss of power and communications lines required that all aircraft traffic be controlled by visual and physical spacing. Only one aircraft could arrive or leave the island every 10 minutes, or six per hour, to ensure that the aircraft were safely separated. Under normal operating conditions, an airport the size of San Juan International can handle about 45 flights per hour. The limited aircraft movement choked the supply chain of critical material and personnel, officials said.

The Puerto Rico Air National Guard, while in a recovery state itself, saw the big picture and knew they needed to immediately support the FAA, Tirado said. The focus of the assistance, he said, was to help re-establish local and ground-to-air communications and to re-establish radar coverage of the air space above the island and surrounding area.

Air Force Lt. Col. Humberto Pabon, the vice wing commander of the Puerto Rico Air National Guard's 156th Airlift Wing,said he understood the gravity of the situation and the necessity to restore air operations capabilities, so he set teams in motion.

"Our communications flight immediately engaged with the FAA at the airport to begin that process," Pabon said. "We worked with various Guard resources to provide power and immediate data link access."

Restoring Air Traffic Control System

With basic communications re-established, the number of flights taking place per hour began to climb -- from six per hour to 18 per hour two days after the storm --to more than 30 per hour, and finally into the upper 30s and low 40s, which is normal operations.

After the storm, the wing's 156th Communications Flight had immediately established a Joint Incident Site Communications Capability team, giving Air Guard commanders local communications to get their own air operations back online.

Another Air National Guard JISCC unit, the 126th Communications Flight from Illinois, is powering the 156th's command post and airfield management office and restoring ramp operations at Muniz Air National Guard Base near here.

The Wisconsin Air National Guard's 115th Communications Flight set up a separate JISCC at the FAA's San Juan communications center. This allowed San Juan Center to resume having direct communications with inbound and outbound aircraft.

The commanders and team members from all three JISCCs pooled resources and knowledge to work with the FAA and get the air traffic control system back up and running.

"We had to come up with multiple solutions to every challenge," said Air Force Capt. Jeff Rutkowski, commander of the Wisconsin Air National Guard's JISCC. "We'd try something and the first solution wouldn't work. We'd get something started and realize that a better idea came along, and we'd switch to that.

"We were dealing with a scenario where so many things were damaged. We really had to get creative," Rutkowski added.

"This support between the guard and the FAA is unprecedented," said Air Force 2nd Lt. Jose Arroyo-Cruz, a 156th cyberspace operations officer and one of hundreds of Puerto Rico Air National Guard members who've been on the job since before the storm hit.

"We had a 'hole in the sky' over Puerto Rico," Arroyo-Cruz said. "It was a giant hole in the highway in the sky. We had to fix that hole before we could bring in aid to the people of Puerto Rico."

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 04:35 PM
With every day that goes by the lack of response grows more unacceptable.
What "lack of response"? We've been there since the storms moved far enough away to make it safe to operate.

http://www.southcom.mil/News/PressReleases/Article/1313424/release-us-forces-prepare-to-support-foreign-hurricane-irma-relief-in-caribbean/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Special-Reports/DoD-Hurricane-Relief/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1330657/dod-continues-to-provide-more-response-capacity-to-puerto-rico/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1330602/dod-boosts-personnel-aiding-hurricane-relief-efforts-in-puerto-rico/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1331249/air-national-guard-restores-air-traffic-control-in-puerto-rico/

Chris Smith porter maine
10-02-2017, 05:34 PM
What "lack of response"? We've been there since the storms moved far enough away to make it safe to operate.

http://www.southcom.mil/News/PressReleases/Article/1313424/release-us-forces-prepare-to-support-foreign-hurricane-irma-relief-in-caribbean/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Special-Reports/DoD-Hurricane-Relief/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1330657/dod-continues-to-provide-more-response-capacity-to-puerto-rico/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1330602/dod-boosts-personnel-aiding-hurricane-relief-efforts-in-puerto-rico/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1331249/air-national-guard-restores-air-traffic-control-in-puerto-rico/

Ten days in I heard an interview this morning with the general now in charge, he has 44 helicopters now on site working, sorry but that's kinda lame. Yes the military went fast but without enough stuff, go big or go home as the saying goes, Trump went golfing.

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 06:03 PM
Ten days in I heard an interview this morning with the general now in charge, he has 44 helicopters now on site working, sorry but that's kinda lame. Yes the military went fast but without enough stuff, go big or go home as the saying goes, Trump went golfing.

Many were already supporting island communities throughout the Eastern Caribbean, and had to finish those missions before they could move on. It's not a video game, in which you can recover a bone pile and,-
*poof* -
have an endless supply of goods, vehicles, and personnel.

mmd
10-02-2017, 06:10 PM
You're doing a lot of heavy lifting here, sharpiefan; be careful you don't strain your back.

Chris Smith porter maine
10-02-2017, 06:31 PM
Many were already supporting island communities throughout the Eastern Caribbean, and had to finish those missions before they could move on. It's not a video game, in which you can recover a bone pile and,-
*poof* -
have an endless supply of goods, vehicles, and personnel.

I have no idea what your talking about regarding video games and bones, I don't play them I have worked on a tugboat in the Caribbean and it's 7 days to hual a loaded barge there from New Orleans by tug, ships move faster, if you think the US military only has 44 helicopters available your a bit behind the times, Puerto Rico is getting little and late it's not part of trumps base. There Americans they deserve all our efforts.

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 06:34 PM
You're doing a lot of heavy lifting here, sharpiefan; be careful you don't strain your back.

The ship I was on got tagged for an emergency mission to make & supply water to a small Greek island whose regular water supply failed. We had helos & boats moving supplies 24 hours a day. I know how hard the troops on the ground are working, and it bothers me to see their efforts slighted.

CWSmith
10-02-2017, 06:39 PM
The ship I was on got tagged for an emergency mission to make & supply water to a small Greek island whose regular water supply failed. We had helos & boats moving supplies 24 hours a day. I know how hard the troops on the ground are working, and it bothers me to see their efforts slighted.

You are being manipulated and you should recognize that.

The USA sent too little and is doing not enough. It isn't a reflection on the troops and you are foolish to defend those who hide behind them.

Chris Smith porter maine
10-02-2017, 06:43 PM
The ship I was on got tagged for an emergency mission to make & supply water to a small Greek island whose regular water supply failed. We had helos & boats moving supplies 24 hours a day. I know how hard the troops on the ground are working, and it bothers me to see their efforts slighted.

There is no doubt in my mind the military that's there are working there butt off they just need some more help we are talking 3 1/2 million people.

sharpiefan
10-02-2017, 07:41 PM
You are being manipulated and you should recognize that.

The USA sent too little and is doing not enough. It isn't a reflection on the troops and you are foolish to defend those who hide behind them.


Sorry if I sound testy folks. I'm an old fart who only speaks plain English, not political English, and to me a statement like

With every day that goes by the lack of response grows more unacceptable.

means you think noone is doing anything to help Puerto Rico.

If you think the response is inadequate, tell me what resources are available, how many should be committed to the relief effort, and how you determine that, bearing in mind that we still have two more months of hurricane season to get through.

S.V. Airlie
10-02-2017, 07:49 PM
Sorry if I sound testy folks. I'm an old fart who only speaks plain English, not political English, and to me a statement like

means you think noone is doing anything to help Puerto Rico.

If you think the response is inadequate, tell me what resources are available, how many should be committed to the relief effort, and how you determine that, bearing in mind that we still have two more months of hurricane season to get through.Sharpie, just out, the Pentagon says that Trump is trying to snow everyone. It refutes Trump's lies about the rescue of PR is going swimmingly.

sharpiefan
10-03-2017, 07:00 AM
Sharpie, just out, the Pentagon says that Trump is trying to snow everyone. It refutes Trump's lies about the rescue of PR is going swimmingly.

Link to Pentagon source?

I found an article from a few days ago referencing a Pentagon report about how only half the island has access to drinking water, and a factchecker article about his tweets, but nothing from the Pentagon accusing him of " trying to snow everyone." Sounds like a short road to early retirement to me, if those words wers used. :)

CWSmith
10-03-2017, 07:38 AM
If you think the response is inadequate, tell me what resources are available, how many should be committed to the relief effort, and how you determine that, bearing in mind that we still have two more months of hurricane season to get through.

Like I said, you are being manipulated. If you think the troops on the ground can act independently, bring resources that are not directed from senior personnel, function without the chain of command, then I will agree that the troops on the ground are due some criticism. Otherwise, you need to separate their actions from those of the White House.

sharpiefan
10-03-2017, 08:17 AM
Like I said, you are being manipulated. If you think the troops on the ground can act independently, bring resources that are not directed from senior personnel, function without the chain of command, then I will agree that the troops on the ground are due some criticism. Otherwise, you need to separate their actions from those of the White House.

There are regional commanders who do not require micromanaging from the White House to respond to an emergency. If they did, nothing would get done. They are not responsible for statements made by POTUS & his spinmeisters.

I know from personal experience that in a disaster of this magnitude, no matter how much has been done, it is not enough. There is always room for more help.

LeeG
10-03-2017, 08:28 AM
So far multiple people speaking for the rescue operation have identified lack of drivers and secure fuel supplies as a bottleneck in the distribution of aid. It seems odd there isn't a follow up description of solutions. Something along the lines of "200 drivers are needed, the National Guard and Army are supplying 100 with 50 local drivers available but fuel infrastructure can only supply 120. X roads and bridges are washed out and will take weeks to months to replace with side roads only able to handle 5 ton trucks"
The lack of specificity in solutions makes it sound like assessing the problem is still under way.

CWSmith
10-03-2017, 09:21 AM
There are regional commanders who do not require micromanaging from the White House to respond to an emergency. If they did, nothing would get done. They are not responsible for statements made by POTUS & his spinmeisters.


And no one said they are, but you keep defending them as though they were guilty.

sharpiefan
10-03-2017, 09:53 AM
And no one said they are, but you keep defending them as though they were guilty.

I am defending them against statements that they have not responded to the emergency.


With every day that goes by the lack of response grows more unacceptable.

CWSmith
10-03-2017, 10:12 AM
It is a common tactic for small men to hide behind the sacrifices and reputation of others. The GWBush administration claimed that every attack on the POTUS was an attack on the troops in an effort to make it impossible to criticize a war that was poorly conceived, under-funded, and a gross foreign policy mistake.

Sharpie is making that same behavior possible for a POTUS who does not deserve it. He may or may not know this and at some point I refuse to care. It is our duty as citizens to complain about what is not right. If Sharpie misunderstands, then it's a shame. My criticism of this POTUS continues.

sharpiefan
10-03-2017, 10:49 AM
Mr. Sharpiefan, The comments are not directed at the personnel, but at the POS in the Oval Office.

Imagine the incredible boost that stupid sack of garbage would have gotten if he had sent the Mule Skinners!


Imagine what positive attention he may have garnered if he had sent a half-dozen LCUs!

He hasn't.

It's clear that he hasn't done nearly as much as he could have done because HE IS A RACIST, AND THE BROWN PEOPLE OF PUERTO RICO CAN NOT AND WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM!!!!!.

Clear as mud?



It is a common tactic for small men to hide behind the sacrifices and reputation of others. The GWBush administration claimed that every attack on the POTUS was an attack on the troops in an effort to make it impossible to criticize a war that was poorly conceived, under-funded, and a gross foreign policy mistake.

Sharpie is making that same behavior possible for a POTUS who does not deserve it. He may or may not know this and at some point I refuse to care. It is our duty as citizens to complain about what is not right. If Sharpie misunderstands, then it's a shame. My criticism of this POTUS continue


Sorry, CW, it was not clear that your comment about "lack of response" referred to POTUS. I suspect that much of the first response was without his input; he should have put the word out immediately to "Do what it takes, take what you need." to the regional commanders & the materiel & logistics people.

He has responded, shamefully, with slurs against the people and government of Puerto Rico, lies about the continuing state of emergency on the island, attacks against news outlets reporting on same, and heartless indifference. GOLF?! He should be meeting with senior commanders & FEMA folk to be expediting recovery, so that the island can move from emergency management to rebuilding.


WASHINGTON, Oct. 2, 2017 — Puerto Rican and federal officials are working as a unified coordination group and progress is being made in all lines of effort on the island, but Hurricane Maria's devastation was so extreme and widespread that the island remains in emergency mode, Gov. Ricardo Rossello said in San Juan today.

Government and nongovernmental agencies are working together to deliver food, water and fuel to people throughout the island commonwealth, he said.

Progress is being made in all lines of effort, the governor stressed, but he acknowledged that much more needs to happen. His government is working "effectively with [the Federal Emercency Management Agency] and the Department of Defense,who are helping extensively with all of the logistics and the efforts we have on the ground," he said.

About 7,200 service members of all services and components are on the ground in Puerto Rico, the governor said, employed in areas such as transportation, security, fuel units and medical efforts.

Army Lt. Gen. Jeffrey S. Buchanan, the U.S. Northern Command representative on the island and the Defense Department's liaison to the FEMA-led effort, told National Public Radio that Puerto Rico has received everything he has asked for from Northcom and DoD.

The Navy amphibious assault ship USS Wasp, with three embarked helicopters and 10 additional aircraft, will arrive tomorrow. Eight Marine Corps MV-22 Ospreys and two KC-130 Hercules transport planes also will deploy to the island.

The Navy hospital ship USNS Comfort is due to arrive in Puerto Rico tomorrow. The Military Sealift Command ship is crewed with 800 medical personnel and support staff to support 250 patient beds.The ship will fall in on a medical systemthat is recovering from the storm. The governor said that assessments of the hospital system are complete and that 10 hospitals are back on the electrical grid, with others operating via generators. FEMA officials have worked up a fuel distribution system to ensure uninterrupted electricity at those facilities, Rossello said.

Fuel is a major and necessary commodity. More than 759 of 1,120 retail gas stations have reopened, and waiting times for gas and diesel fuel have dropped drastically, he added, and about 65 percent of large grocery and big-box stores have reopened.

After Maria struck the island, all airports and seaports were inoperable. Now all 10 airports are reopened, the governor said, and eight vital seaports are accepting cargoes.

Some 37 percent of residents now have cellular phone service, Rossello said. "We have 270 antennas that are up," he added. "We have more than 1,700 antennas in Puerto Rico."

Transportation within the island is improving. Crews are clearing roads and repairing roads and bridges as they move along. Aviation assets – including military helicopters – are providing commodities to those communities where road are still blocked.

"We want to add more efforts from the private sector to help repair and open roadways in Puerto Rico, making our logistical objectives more clear," the governor said. "By the end of the week, we will have 75 percent of the public transportation efforts working."


LINK (https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1331056/unified-coordination-group-addressing-puerto-rico-recovery-governor-says/)