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John Smith
09-02-2017, 12:53 PM
Can anyone think of any other crime, other than crossing the border, that we punish the children for?

If mom and dad rob a bank or blow up a building, we would arrest them, but we'd do our best to make sure their young children are cared for, no?

CWSmith
09-02-2017, 12:58 PM
I don't mean to defend this, but in the case you site we separate the children from the parents. Do you want to do this for families that cross the border illegally? On the other hand, do you want to make children into shields that prevent us from sending illegal parents back? It's a bit more complicated than we care to admit.

John Smith
09-02-2017, 03:28 PM
I guess I'm asking why we don't treat this as we treat other crimes. We lock up those who commit crimes, and that separates them from family.

MY point is that the parents who came here illegally are the ones who broke the law. If you pull a car over and give the driver a ticket for speeding, his child in the back seat does not get a ticket.

If we lock up two parents, we try to find another relative, or we give the child to social services. We make an effort designed to provide GOOD for the child. Many of those who came here as children are now teenagers or adults. They speak English and this is the only country they know.

If they are over 12, maybe the child gets to choose.

jack grebe
09-02-2017, 03:39 PM
Can anyone think of any other crime, other than crossing the border, that we punish the children for?

If mom and dad rob a bank or blow up a building, we would arrest them, but we'd do our best to make sure their young children are cared for, no?

If the children crossed the border, they are guilty of illegal immigration also.......

Peerie Maa
09-02-2017, 03:57 PM
If the children crossed the border, they are guilty of illegal immigration also.......

http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/dyingfordollars.png

CWSmith
09-02-2017, 04:38 PM
I guess I'm asking why we don't treat this as we treat other crimes. We lock up those who commit crimes, and that separates them from family.

Those children are American citizens with relatives in the country. If there are no relatives, the children go into social services which is not what I would wish on any child.

The point is that I don't think we have the legal right to detain the children in this country, place them into adopted families, and ship the parents back.

Too Little Time
09-02-2017, 04:46 PM
Can anyone think of any other crime, other than crossing the border, that we punish the children for?

If mom and dad rob a bank or blow up a building, we would arrest them, but we'd do our best to make sure their young children are cared for, no?
If a kid robs a bank, he might spend some time in some type of juvenile facility. But yes it is a difficult situation. I would rather not punish kids.

The idea of free migration is appealing until it is put into practice and the migrants come in droves. There seems to be a problem in Europe alone those lines. But I am willing to accept whatever policy we put into place.

John Smith
09-02-2017, 06:19 PM
Those children are American citizens with relatives in the country. If there are no relatives, the children go into social services which is not what I would wish on any child.

The point is that I don't think we have the legal right to detain the children in this country, place them into adopted families, and ship the parents back.

What is the difference between shipping their parents back to another country or putting their parents in a prison?

John Smith
09-02-2017, 06:20 PM
If a kid robs a bank, he might spend some time in some type of juvenile facility. But yes it is a difficult situation. I would rather not punish kids.

The idea of free migration is appealing until it is put into practice and the migrants come in droves. There seems to be a problem in Europe alone those lines. But I am willing to accept whatever policy we put into place.

The child did not come to this country, he was brought to this country. Why make him a victim?

CWSmith
09-02-2017, 06:28 PM
What is the difference between shipping their parents back to another country or putting their parents in a prison?

The kids aren't American citizens. If the kids are born here, then the parents still cannot be coerced to surrender their parental rights. Or, do we now set the precedent that the child has rights over the parent so that we emancipate every child born here to illegal parents?

Norman Bernstein
09-02-2017, 06:38 PM
This entire situation exits because certain interests, for purely political reasons, have painted a rather dour picture of the REAL effect of immigration on this country... both legal, and illegal. Every time I look for meaningful data and statistics about the effect of illegal immigration, I find a completely different picture of the reality of the situation.

This is NOT to say that I think we ought to have open borders; SOME degree of control is necessary, and reasonable. However, the talk of deporting 800,000 dreamers who know no other country, who are as 'American' in any way that really counts... PLUS their parents (which is precisely what Donald Trump campaigned on)... is the very antithesis of what I believe America is all about.

The final decision will undoubtedly be weighed, with a heavy thumb on the scale, in the interests of delivering a campaign promise.... rather than what is in the best interests of the country.

Phillip Allen
09-02-2017, 06:42 PM
Can anyone think of any other crime, other than crossing the border, that we punish the children for?

If mom and dad rob a bank or blow up a building, we would arrest them, but we'd do our best to make sure their young children are cared for, no?

any crime that we lock up the parents for and thus take away child's parents

John Smith
09-02-2017, 06:49 PM
any crime that we lock up the parents for and thus take away child's parents

So why "lock the kids up" with the parents?

How can a 3 year old break a law?

John Smith
09-02-2017, 06:50 PM
Secondary question. Should Executive orders be retroactive?

Phillip Allen
09-02-2017, 06:52 PM
So why "lock the kids up" with the parents?

How can a 3 year old break a law?

I said nothing about locking up the kids...think about it

Phillip Allen
09-02-2017, 06:58 PM
So why "lock the kids up" with the parents?

How can a 3 year old break a law?

how about a nursing child?

PhaseLockedLoop
09-02-2017, 07:09 PM
If mom and dad rob a bank or blow up a building, we would arrest them, but we'd do our best to make sure their young children are cared for, no?

No.

Too Little Time
09-02-2017, 07:51 PM
The child did not come to this country, he was brought to this country. Why make him a victim?
I responded to your question. Not the question you are now asking. And as I said it is a difficult issue.

John Smith
09-02-2017, 09:50 PM
I said nothing about locking up the kids...think about it

Isn't deporting them with their parents pretty much as locking them up with their parents?

John Smith
09-02-2017, 09:51 PM
how about a nursing child?

What do we do with a nursing child if the mother is arrested for any other crime?

Phillip Allen
09-02-2017, 10:10 PM
What do we do with a nursing child if the mother is arrested for any other crime?

dunno... prolly varies by state and county

Phillip Allen
09-02-2017, 10:10 PM
Isn't deporting them with their parents pretty much as locking them up with their parents?

no.

John Smith
09-03-2017, 02:33 PM
Just for general info, this is the criteria for DACA
Individuals who meet the following criteria can apply for deferred action for childhood arrivals:

are under 31 years of age as of June 15, 2012;
came to the U.S. while under the age of 16;
have continuously resided in the U.S. from June 15, 2007 to the present. (For purposes of calculating this five year period, brief and innocent absences from the United States for humanitarian reasons will not be included);
entered the U.S. without inspection or fell out of lawful visa status before June 15, 2012;
were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making the request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS;
are currently in school, have graduated from high school, have obtained a GED, or have been honorably discharged from the Coast Guard or armed forces;
have not been convicted of a felony offense, a significant misdemeanor, or more than three misdemeanors of any kind; and
do not pose a threat to national security or public safety.
Applicants will have to provide documentary evidence of the above criteria. In addition, every applicant must complete and pass a biographic and biometric background check.

Too Little Time
09-03-2017, 03:30 PM
Just for general info, this is the criteria for DACA
Individuals who meet the following criteria can apply for deferred action for childhood arrivals:

are under 31 years of age as of June 15, 2012;
came to the U.S. while under the age of 16;
have continuously resided in the U.S. from June 15, 2007 to the present. (For purposes of calculating this five year period, brief and innocent absences from the United States for humanitarian reasons will not be included);
entered the U.S. without inspection or fell out of lawful visa status before June 15, 2012;
were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making the request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS;
are currently in school, have graduated from high school, have obtained a GED, or have been honorably discharged from the Coast Guard or armed forces;
have not been convicted of a felony offense, a significant misdemeanor, or more than three misdemeanors of any kind; and
do not pose a threat to national security or public safety.
Applicants will have to provide documentary evidence of the above criteria. In addition, every applicant must complete and pass a biographic and biometric background check.
You started with a comment on children. And now we have adults up to age 36.

Are you suggesting that those over 21 should be treated the same as minors? I can see an argument that those over 21 should have noticed they we not legal and should have taken some action prior to now. I don't know what action was available to them. I can also see the argument that some of those who are now over 21 did not know they were illegal and so did not take action.

John Smith
09-03-2017, 05:40 PM
You started with a comment on children. And now we have adults up to age 36.

Are you suggesting that those over 21 should be treated the same as minors? I can see an argument that those over 21 should have noticed they we not legal and should have taken some action prior to now. I don't know what action was available to them. I can also see the argument that some of those who are now over 21 did not know they were illegal and so did not take action.

came here as children.