PDA

View Full Version : Man arrested for firing gun at Charlottesville rally



SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 11:01 AM
For all you 2nd Amendment folks:


New York (CNN)A man who is suspected of firing a gun at counterprotesters during the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, earlier this month has been arrested, police said Saturday.

Richard Wilson Preston, 52, was arrested following the release of a video, filmed by the ACLU of Virginia, that allegedly shows him in a verbal altercation on August 12 with counterprotestors near the Southwest corner of Emancipation Park. In the video, counterprotesters appear to throw objects at right-wing marchers.
After several seconds, the man in the video, who is wearing a load-bearing vest, with a pistol on one leg and extra magazines on the other, turns away from the argument and walks away. Before reaching the edge of the frame, he turns back, drawing a pistol and shouting "Hey, n****r."

With his pistol out and pointed at the crowd, he walks toward them before pausing, taking a step back, and racking the slide to load a bullet in his weapon's chamber. The man aims again, seemingly lower, and quickly fires a shot, before turning around, holstering his weapon, and rejoining the march.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/27/us/man-arrested-gun-charlottesville-rally/index.html


there is a video of the incident on the cnn site.

CWSmith
08-28-2017, 11:06 AM
New York (CNN)A man who is suspected of firing a gun at counterprotesters during the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, earlier this month has been arrested, police said Saturday.

I'm surprised it took this long.

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 11:06 AM
Wow. Here's hoping they throw the book at him.

Canoeyawl
08-28-2017, 11:09 AM
Wow. Here's hoping they throw the book at him.

Trump will pardon him

TomF
08-28-2017, 11:11 AM
"On all sides. All sides."

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 11:13 AM
"On all sides. All sides."


you did see the part where they were throwing things at him right? while not as serious as gun fire, that's still BOTH SIDES doing something wrong.

Joe (SoCal)
08-28-2017, 11:16 AM
AwwwShucks™.com (https://fosterhere.wixsite.com/awwwshucks) < Click

oznabrag
08-28-2017, 11:16 AM
Cliiiiing to it, man!

Joe (SoCal)
08-28-2017, 11:16 AM
you did see the part where they were throwing things at him right? while not as serious as gun fire, that's still BOTH SIDES doing something wrong.

Deplorable

TomF
08-28-2017, 11:19 AM
you did see the part where they were throwing things at him right? while not as serious as gun fire, that's still BOTH SIDES doing something wrong.
Gunfire is, as you almost note, often lethal. Throwing things rarely is.

Chris Coose
08-28-2017, 11:35 AM
That's awesome.

Reynard38
08-28-2017, 11:36 AM
you did see the part where they were throwing things at him right? while not as serious as gun fire, that's still BOTH SIDES doing something wrong.

Its always interesting seeing people try to justify what occurred in Charlottesville. The rednecks were there to provoke a reaction, not to see a statue of a traitor remain in place. They got what they were looking for, and in doing so hurt their, and Trump's cause.

Rum_Pirate
08-28-2017, 11:37 AM
Gunfire is, as you almost note, often lethal. Throwing things rarely is.


I recall being on a muddy building site when the Architect and other consultants were was walking beside a 4 story building.

There was a shout of "LOOK OUT" from the flat roof.


A 8'0" x 4'0" sheet was coming down from the roof.

Architect and other consultants scattered and dived, . . . muddy site.

The 8'0" x 4'0" sheet then wafted down like a leaf.

http://rs1037.pbsrc.com/albums/a454/redwine-n-strawberries/The%20Four%20Seasons/Fall%20-%20Colorful%20Changes/Autumn%20Colored%20Falling%20Leaves/gif09llisallindsay.gif~c200



It was an 8'0" x 4'0" sheet of expanded polystyrene foam board insulation.

Naturally there was nobody remaining on the roof.

A good laugh was had by the workers, but not by the consultants.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 12:06 PM
Gunfire is, as you almost note, often lethal. Throwing things rarely is.


so everyone misses the point... again...

so, do we think this guys pulls out a gun and starts shooting if say, NO ONE IS THROWING THINGS AT HIM? does that sound plausible? i originally stipulated that the gun was a worse offense, so how does responding with "but the gun was worse" help your argument? (it doesn't btw)

John of Phoenix
08-28-2017, 12:09 PM
Virginia State Police say their officers nearby were unaware of the incident.

How the hell did they not hear a gunshot only 15 feet away?

Wherever this is headed, it's not good.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 12:11 PM
i'd hate to be the police these days. nothing they do is "right" anymore.

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 12:12 PM
i'd hate to be the police these days. nothing they do is "right" anymore.

Silly hyperbole.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 12:13 PM
so everyone misses the point... again...



"but the gun was worse"

No Alan, I think we all get your point.


Are there fees for filing moral bankruptcy? It must be easy since s many are doing it. Or do you need to even file? Does it just suddenly happen?

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 12:13 PM
so everyone misses the point... again...

so, do we think this guys pulls out a gun and starts shooting if say, NO ONE IS THROWING THINGS AT HIM? does that sound plausible? i originally stipulated that the gun was a worse offense, so how does responding with "but the gun was worse" help your argument? (it doesn't btw)I don't know, do you? As I see it, he brought a gun to a rally. In this case, he used it! If he wasn't out to cause trouble, why did he bring a gun Alan? For looks, for intimidation, why?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 12:17 PM
I don't know, do you? As I see it, he brought a gun to a rally. In this case, he used it! If he wasn't out to cause trouble, why did he bring a gun Alan? For looks, for intimidation, why?



so what are we saying here? if someone shoots someone else b/c they hit them with a bottle... only ONE person was wrong in that scenario? uh, ok?

LeeG
08-28-2017, 12:17 PM
so everyone misses the point... again...

so, do we think this guys pulls out a gun and starts shooting if say, NO ONE IS THROWING THINGS AT HIM? does that sound plausible? i originally stipulated that the gun was a worse offense, so how does responding with "but the gun was worse" help your argument? (it doesn't btw)


What is your point again?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 12:19 PM
What is your point again?


that there were people on BOTH SIDES acting like morons. some more moronic than others.

Peerie Maa
08-28-2017, 12:19 PM
What is your point again?

That it is OK to use lethal force against someone who is not?

genglandoh
08-28-2017, 12:21 PM
Good he should be arrested.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 12:22 PM
Good he should be arrested.


absolutely

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 12:23 PM
so what are we saying here? if someone shoots someone else b/c they hit them with a bottle... only ONE person was wrong in that scenario? uh, ok?Answer my question, don't keep trying to deflect like PA tends to do.

LeeG
08-28-2017, 12:25 PM
That it is OK to use lethal force against someone who is not?

Sounds like Alan wants to emphasize the idea of two sides "both sides being bad" while diminishing what constitutes "bad".

L.W. Baxter
08-28-2017, 12:28 PM
People who threw projectiles should be arrested and prosecuted commensurate with the seriousness of the offense.

The guy who showed up strapped and fired a round, should get a violent felony conviction and lose his gun "rights" permanently.

Peerie Maa
08-28-2017, 12:28 PM
Sounds like Alan wants to emphasize the idea of two sides "both sides being bad" while diminishing what constitutes "bad".

Channelling Dolt 45?

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 12:29 PM
People who threw projectiles should be arrested and prosecuted commensurate with the seriousness of the offense.

The guy who showed up strapped and fired a round, should get a violent felony conviction and lose his gun "rights" permanently.Now, that's too logical.

genglandoh
08-28-2017, 12:30 PM
That it is OK to use lethal force against someone who is not?

In this situation I would say no.
The shooter was not in any live threatening situation.

If you are driving your car and a mob starts to attack your car yelling that are going to kill you, would it be OK to drive thru the mob?
I do not think I would but I would not condemn other if they did.

Joe (SoCal)
08-28-2017, 12:34 PM
In this situation I would say no.
The shooter was not in any live threatening situation.

If you are driving your car and a mob starts to attack your car yelling that are going to kill you, would it be OK to drive thru the mob?
I do not think I would but I would not condemn other if they did.

WTF !!!! The guy backed up in order to BUILD UP SPEED !!!! You are an apologist to murder.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 12:35 PM
Sounds like Alan wants to emphasize the idea of two sides "both sides being bad" while diminishing what constitutes "bad".


sounds like you guys are way too partisan driven. let's break this down 2nd grader style. is throwing objects at people RIGHT or WRONG? is shooting at people RIGHT or WRONG?

in the scenario in question, EVERYONE should have been arrested for various crimes.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 12:36 PM
WTF !!!! The guy backed up in order to BUILD UP SPEED !!!! You are an apologist to murder.


i don't think he was talking about THAT car run over, just my guess though

Joe (SoCal)
08-28-2017, 12:37 PM
http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170814193931-01-ryan-kelly-charlottesville-exlarge-169.jpg

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 12:37 PM
In this situation I would say no.
The shooter was not in any live threatening situation.

If you are driving your car and a mob starts to attack your car yelling that are going to kill you, would it be OK to drive thru the mob?
I do not think I would but I would not condemn other if they did.


Did you really just defend James Fields?

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 12:38 PM
I'm sure it's purely hypothetical. :rolleyes:

The number of Nazi apologists in the Bilge is disheartening.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 12:39 PM
i don't think he was talking about THAT car run over, just my guess though


If he wasn't he really needs to learn how to frame his allegories better. It sure read like he was.

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 12:40 PM
In this situation I would say no.
The shooter was not in any live threatening situation.

If you are driving your car and a mob starts to attack your car yelling that are going to kill you, would it be OK to drive thru the mob?
I do not think I would but I would not condemn other if they did.Drive how fast? Are you using your horn? Believe me, they would have a tendency to avoid being hit. Something about NOT wanting to die or be injured.Then again, I try not to get in that kinda situation. In this case, VA. I knew there was going to be a rally before hand, I suspected it might get out of hand and I didn't drive anywhere near it.

Joe (SoCal)
08-28-2017, 12:41 PM
sounds like you guys are way too partisan driven. let's break this down 2nd grader style. is throwing objects at people RIGHT or WRONG? is shooting at people RIGHT or WRONG?

in the scenario in question, EVERYONE should have been arrested for various crimes.

throwing objects at people RIGHT or WRONG? - Wrong - possible misdemeanor and you can still play with stones

shooting at people RIGHT or WRONG? - WRONGER - Felony, Jail, lose your right to vote, and you can't play with guns no more.

genglandoh
08-28-2017, 12:42 PM
WTF !!!! The guy backed up in order to BUILD UP SPEED !!!! You are an apologist to murder.

I was not talking about the Charlottesville driver who drove into the crowd, he had no excuse for what he did.

I was talking in more general terms, when someone is in fear for they life then it may be OK to use lethal force.

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 12:45 PM
throwing objects at people RIGHT or WRONG? - Wrong - possible misdemeanor and you can still play with stones

shooting at people RIGHT or WRONG? - WRONGER - Felony, Jail, lose your right to vote, and you can't play with guns no more.If Alan notices, only the guy who shot off the gun was arrested. I wonder if he thinks there just might be a reason for that?

Joe (SoCal)
08-28-2017, 12:45 PM
I was not talking about the Charlottesville driver who drove into the crowd, he had no excuse for what he did.

I was talking in more general terms, when someone is in fear for they life then it may be OK to use lethal force.

Get better general terms because this one sucks.

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 12:54 PM
I was not talking about the Charlottesville driver who drove into the crowd, he had no excuse for what he did.

I was talking in more general terms, when someone is in fear for they life then it may be OK to use lethal force.Geng, how long do you think it takes for a mob to become a mob? If I see one, if I hear that there is a potential of one happening, I don't go near it! I don't drive into them anyway. If I go to a rally that's getting a little edgy, I leave the rally.

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 12:54 PM
If Alan notices, only the guy who shot off the gun was arrested. I wonder if he thinks there just might be a reason for that?

I'll take "the others didn't use deadly force" for $800, Alex.

LeeG
08-28-2017, 01:00 PM
Dumb, dumb, dumb to attempt some moral equivalence starting with the characterization of "two sides being bad"

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:02 PM
I'm sure it's purely hypothetical. :rolleyes:

The number of Nazi apologists in the Bilge is disheartening.

that number is 0. now, the number if people that are being labeled nazi apologists by ideological zealots... that's a much different number.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:03 PM
throwing objects at people RIGHT or WRONG? - Wrong - possible misdemeanor and you can still play with stones

shooting at people RIGHT or WRONG? - WRONGER - Felony, Jail, lose your right to vote, and you can't play with guns no more.


see, this is progress. you AGREE with trump now!

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 01:04 PM
that number is 0.

Feel free to try to convince me.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:05 PM
I'll take "the others didn't use deadly force" for $800, Alex.



so, we don't arrest anyone for assault now? assault is fine as long as you vote democrat and really really really didn't mean any harm?

George Jung
08-28-2017, 01:05 PM
Too bad that big, tough man needed a gun in order to 'defend' himself. Thought you boys were tougher than that.

oznabrag
08-28-2017, 01:05 PM
sounds like you guys are way too partisan driven. let's break this down 2nd grader style. is throwing objects at people RIGHT or WRONG? is shooting at people RIGHT or WRONG?

in the scenario in question, EVERYONE should have been arrested for various crimes.

How about this one:

Is rounding up 6 million people and cooking them to death wrong?

Is jaywalking wrong?


You use false equivalence, I use reductio ad absurdum.

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 01:08 PM
so, we don't arrest anyone for assault now? assault is fine as long as you vote democrat and really really really didn't mean any harm?

Ask the po', not me. I'm not responsible for American police, and that's a good thing.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:12 PM
How about this one:

Is rounding up 6 million people and cooking them to death wrong?

Is jaywalking wrong?


You use false equivalence, I use reductio ad absurdum.


did 6 million jaywalkers go to the gas chambers?

your ad absurdum is hoc rediculi.

people were throwing things at someone, he shot at them for it. was he going to shoot at them for no reason? maybe. but i would doubt it. so bad actions caused an even worse response. does that mean only the ONE person was wrong. you guys with your ideology sure don't leave much room for common sense thought processes.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 01:17 PM
did 6 million jaywalkers go to the gas chambers?



No Alan, They weren't jaywalkers. They weren't criminals at all just undesirable to the people you are currently defending. They were Jews, homosexuals, priests, Romani and others.

Joe (SoCal)
08-28-2017, 01:19 PM
see, this is progress. you AGREE with trump now!

absurdum

oznabrag
08-28-2017, 01:19 PM
did 6 million jaywalkers go to the gas chambers?

your ad absurdum is hoc rediculi.

people were throwing things at someone, he shot at them for it. was he going to shoot at them for no reason? maybe. but i would doubt it. so bad actions caused an even worse response. does that mean only the ONE person was wrong. you guys with your ideology sure don't leave much room for common sense thought processes.

Wrong.

People were throwing things at someone. That person walked away, turned BACK, and fired into the crowd.

That makes his act assault with a deadly weapon, if not attempted first-degree murder.

Turning lethal force against someone who is not threatening your life is a felony.

There was a lady in Austin, about 15 years ago, who had a guy come to her door, force his way in and attempt to rape her. She produced a pistol and he turned away as she fired, making the entry wound in his back.

He dragged himself outside to die, and she went to jail.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:26 PM
Wrong.

People were throwing things at someone. That person walked away, turned BACK, and fired into the crowd.

That makes his act assault with a deadly weapon, if not attempted first-degree murder.

Turning lethal force against someone who is not threatening your life is a felony.

There was a lady in Austin, about 15 years ago, who had a guy come to her door, force his way in and attempt to rape her. She produced a pistol and he turned away as she fired, making the entry wound in his back.

He dragged himself outside to die, and she went to jail.



ugh... let's try this ONE MORE TIME. do YOU, that's YOU OZANBRAG, believe that if all of those people were standing there politely holding their signs in protest instead of throwing objects at this guy, that he would have STILL shot at them? now pay attention here b/c this is important, EITHER WAY the guy shooting is STILL WRONG and should be arrested. but, would he have shot had they not been throwing things at him? it's ok to say no. saying no doesn't make you a nazi. (although half the people in here will call you one)

Canoez
08-28-2017, 01:28 PM
people were throwing things at someone, he shot at them for it.

Do you think before you write?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:29 PM
Do you think before you write?



do you? are you also missing the point?

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 01:30 PM
ugh... let's try this ONE MORE TIME. do YOU, that's YOU OZANBRAG, believe that if all of those people were standing there politely holding their signs in protest instead of throwing objects at this guy, that he would have STILL shot at them? now pay attention here b/c this is important, EITHER WAY the guy shooting is STILL WRONG and should be arrested. but, would he have shot had they not been throwing things at him? it's ok to say no. saying no doesn't make you a nazi. (although half the people in here will call you one)


Objection your Honor! This call for speculation. How would we know if this Nazi would or wouldn't have? Was anyone throwing things at Dylann Roof?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:32 PM
Objection your Honor! This call for speculation. How would we know if this Nazi would or wouldn't have? Was anyone throwing things at Dylann Roof?



if this forum was a court of law it would hang more people in the public square than Mao. glad it's not.

Canoez
08-28-2017, 01:32 PM
do you? are you also missing the point?

No. Not at all.

Simple assault versus assault with a deadly weapon?

Nope.

Not missing a darned thing.

amish rob
08-28-2017, 01:32 PM
Shooting people for throwing rocks does seem an awfully Zionist response for a white supremacist. Ironic?

Peace,
Robert

Canoez
08-28-2017, 01:33 PM
Shooting people for throwing rocks does seem an awfully Zionist response for a white supremacist. Ironic?

Peace,
Robert

The Emperor speaks the truth.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 01:34 PM
if this forum was a court of law it would hang more people in the public square than Mao. glad it's not.


Your Honor, Please direct the "expert" to answer the question: How would we know if this Nazi would or wouldn't have? Was anyone throwing things at Dylann Roof?

amish rob
08-28-2017, 01:37 PM
The Emperor speaks the truth.
It was bound to happen, eventually.:D

Peace,
Robert

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:38 PM
Your Honor, Please direct the "expert" to answer the question: How would we know if this Nazi would or wouldn't have? Was anyone throwing things at Dylann Roof?



objection, asked and answered


"people were throwing things at someone, he shot at them for it. was he going to shoot at them for no reason? maybe. but i would doubt it. so bad actions caused an even worse response. does that mean only the ONE person was wrong. you guys with your ideology sure don't leave much room for common sense thought processes."

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 01:42 PM
your ideology sure don't leave much room for common sense thought processes."


My ideology and common sense tells me not to bring a gun to a political rally. Does yours?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:44 PM
My ideology and common sense tells me not to bring a gun to a political rally. Does yours?


no. it tells me not to go at all. a bunch of morons all around.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 01:48 PM
Ah, a man of talk but no action! I get it.

Gerarddm
08-28-2017, 01:48 PM
#28 sums it up nicely. Nothing more need be said.

Joe (SoCal)
08-28-2017, 01:48 PM
no. it tells me not to go at all. a bunch of morons all around.

"all around, all around"
"On both side, both sides"

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:51 PM
"all around, all around"
"On both side, both sides"



blind partisanship overriding common sense.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:52 PM
Ah, a man of talk but no action! I get it.


that's about all this forum is! a bunch of old white guys whining about crap they wouldn't get off the couch about. MERICA

LeeG
08-28-2017, 01:56 PM
no. it tells me not to go at all. a bunch of morons all around.

Let's say you're a student at University of Virginia and a parade of white supremacists chanting "Jews will not replace us" came marching into your college greens. You would do what?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 01:58 PM
Let's say you're a student at University of Virginia and a parade of white supremacists chanting "Jews will not replace us" came marching into your college greens. You would do what?


throw rocks and bottles? pour my urine on them? hit them with bike locks?

sounds reasonable to me. and hey, they'd better not get mad about and react in some fashion.

LeeG
08-28-2017, 01:59 PM
throw rocks and bottles? pour my urine on them? hit them with bike locks?

sounds reasonable to me. and hey, they'd better not get mad about and react in some fashion.

What would YOU do?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 02:00 PM
What would YOU do?



i would go to my next ME class b/c they don't care if you missed the info, you still have to pass the exams.

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 02:02 PM
i would go to my next ME class b/c they don't care if you missed the info, you still have to pass the exams.At least you are funnier than PA Alan. That's a good thing!

BrianY
08-28-2017, 02:06 PM
that there were people on BOTH SIDES acting like morons. some more moronic than others.

Yes. That's absolutely indisputable. Does that in any way excuse the firing of a gun at the protestors?

TomF
08-28-2017, 02:09 PM
Alan, the self defense guys (Roy Miller, Wim DeMeeres, etc) each write how crucial it is to be aware of the laws where you live, if you ever get into a use-of-force situation. Because a judge will ask if the use was proportional to the threat, if there was any effort at de-escalation, etc.

Gunfire isn't proportionate to thrown bottles. It isn't even in the same ballpark when, as here, the guy with a gun actually walked away safely, but then returned without further threats to himself, to pull and fire a gun.

I am not arguing in favour of bottle throwing; I'm saying that the neo-Nazi wasn't even remotely following ordinary use of force law. Instead, he was discharging his firearm in a way intended to intimidate.

There is no equivalence. There is no meaningful any that this was comparably "both sides", even though it is true that bottles and rocks were thrown.

Canoez
08-28-2017, 02:09 PM
Yes. That's absolutely indisputable. Does that in any way excuse the firing of a gun at the protestors?

Apparently only if the guy firing the gun is a Nazi or KKK member.

Phillip Allen
08-28-2017, 02:11 PM
I think they should have arrested him just the same as they arrested the people throwing stones and brick bats... shooting at them was not necessary from the sound of it. also, he took a gun to a rock fight which is stupid

LeeG
08-28-2017, 02:12 PM
At least you are funnier than PA Alan. That's a good thing!

Except the night of torches wasn't funny, classes wouldn't be in session at midnight. Alan has a hard time answering

Phillip Allen
08-28-2017, 02:12 PM
Apparently only if the guy firing the gun is a Nazi or KKK member.

come on... the real reason our fellow rats want him arrested is because they think he didn't vote democrat in the last election :)

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 02:14 PM
a poor marksman to boot!

Phillip Allen
08-28-2017, 02:16 PM
Alan, the self defense guys (Roy Miller, Wim DeMeeres, etc) each write how crucial it is to be aware of the laws where you live, if you ever get into a use-of-force situation. Because a judge will ask if the use was proportional to the threat, if there was any effort at de-escalation, etc.

Gunfire isn't proportionate to thrown bottles. It isn't even in the same ballpark when, as here, the guy with a gun actually walked away safely, but then returned without further threats to himself, to pull and fire a gun.

I am not arguing in favour of bottle throwing; I'm saying that the neo-Nazi wasn't even remotely following ordinary use of force law. Instead, he was discharging his firearm in a way intended to intimidate.

There is no equivalence. There is no meaningful any that this was comparably "both sides", even though it is true that bottles and rocks were thrown.
okay, okay... you got me... the guy was wrong :)... BTW, how come it took so long after the event for this to come up here

Phillip Allen
08-28-2017, 02:17 PM
a poor marksman to boot!

I wondered about that :)

Canoez
08-28-2017, 02:18 PM
okay, okay... you got me... the guy was wrong :)... BTW, how come it took so long after the event for this to come up here

Because it took the police so long to identify and arrest the guy.

And would you not agree that this individual's poor discipline with a firearm and a felony assault charge should remove his right to possess firearms?

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 02:18 PM
Good question, I read the video was taken by a member of the ACLU. There may be a conspiracy there to run down!

Phillip Allen
08-28-2017, 02:20 PM
Because it took the police so long to identify and arrest the guy.

And would you not agree that this individual's poor discipline with a firearm and a felony assault charge should remove his right to possess firearms?

the same as anyone caught cheating on their taxes? :)

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 02:21 PM
Except the night of torches wasn't funny, classes wouldn't be in session at midnight. Alan has a hard time answering



you have a hard time reading. the question posed was "Let's say you're a student at University of Virginia and a parade of white supremacists chanting "Jews will not replace us" came marching into your college greens. You would do what?"


there wasn't a time of day mentioned in the question posed.

but, since you want to be obtuse.

if it was at midnight, i would have had about a 50% chance of being in a lab running experiments or putting together lab reports b/c i would have been waiting tables all night prior to that. 40% chance i would have been sleeping after waiting tables all night and didn't have any labs or homework. and 10% chance i would have been in a bar acting like a college kid. so, 100% chance i wouldn't have been out throwing rocks at nazis.


happy now?

Canoez
08-28-2017, 02:23 PM
But unfortunately, Nazi's apparently didn't make an appearance on your campus, so we will never know if you would have been marching with them or protesting their march on your campus.

Oh, wait.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 02:24 PM
Alan, the self defense guys (Roy Miller, Wim DeMeeres, etc) each write how crucial it is to be aware of the laws where you live, if you ever get into a use-of-force situation. Because a judge will ask if the use was proportional to the threat, if there was any effort at de-escalation, etc.

Gunfire isn't proportionate to thrown bottles. It isn't even in the same ballpark when, as here, the guy with a gun actually walked away safely, but then returned without further threats to himself, to pull and fire a gun.

I am not arguing in favour of bottle throwing; I'm saying that the neo-Nazi wasn't even remotely following ordinary use of force law. Instead, he was discharging his firearm in a way intended to intimidate.

There is no equivalence. There is no meaningful any that this was comparably "both sides", even though it is true that bottles and rocks were thrown.


ugh, WHERE AM I SAYING IT'S THE SAME?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 02:26 PM
But unfortunately, Nazi's apparently didn't make an appearance on your campus, so we will never know if you would have been marching with them or protesting their march on your campus.

Oh, wait.


lame attempt dude. get better faster

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 02:28 PM
Alan,

One could reasonably conclude you are a gentler man than me. I could not say there would be a 100% chance I wouldn't be throwing rocks at Nazis.

Maybe about 66.66% chance it wouldn't throw a rock at them.

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 02:36 PM
Alan,

One could reasonably conclude you are a gentler man than me. I could not say there would be a 100% chance I wouldn't be throwing rocks at Nazis.

Maybe about 66.66% chance it wouldn't throw a rock at them.


hey, that's not too bad!

LeeG
08-28-2017, 02:39 PM
you have a hard time reading. the question posed was "Let's say you're a student at University of Virginia and a parade of white supremacists chanting "Jews will not replace us" came marching into your college greens. You would do what?"


there wasn't a time of day mentioned in the question posed.

but, since you want to be obtuse.

if it was at midnight, i would have had about a 50% chance of being in a lab running experiments or putting together lab reports b/c i would have been waiting tables all night prior to that. 40% chance i would have been sleeping after waiting tables all night and didn't have any labs or homework. and 10% chance i would have been in a bar acting like a college kid. so, 100% chance i wouldn't have been out throwing rocks at nazis.


happy now?

I don't intend on being obtuse. Just curious what your response would be to torch bearing nazis coming into the public space where you live, work. Would you be neutral, look the other way, express your feelings one way or the other.

Canoez
08-28-2017, 02:45 PM
I don't intend on being obtuse. Just curious what your response would be to torch bearing nazis coming into the public space where you live, work. Would you be neutral, look the other way, express your feelings one way or the other.

Sorry, Lee - if you've been following his posts, you'd know.

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 02:46 PM
So some of the USA's citizens would happily exterminate some of their fellow citizens, and others would stand by and let it happen.

And they say history doesn't repeat.

BrianY
08-28-2017, 02:57 PM
ugh, WHERE AM I SAYING IT'S THE SAME?

You're not. But by bringing up the "there were bad guys on both sides" argument, you are apparently justifying the firing of a handgun towards the protestors. You can clarify your position by answering a simple question:

Do you feel that the guy who fired the handgun was justified in doing so? Yes or no?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 03:07 PM
You're not. But by bringing up the "there were bad guys on both sides" argument, you are apparently justifying the firing of a handgun towards the protestors. You can clarify your position by answering a simple question:

Do you feel that the guy who fired the handgun was justified in doing so? Yes or no?


no, i'm saying it most likely wouldn't have happened in the first place. and jesus, how many times do i have to say it wasn't justified, or equal, or anything other than wrong? saying he was provoked doesn't mean i'm saying he was JUSTIFIED.

TomF
08-28-2017, 03:12 PM
ugh, WHERE AM I SAYING IT'S THE SAME?implicit in that insistence on "on both sides," when the neo-Nazi shot a gun and the folks protesting the neo-Nazi apparently left theirs at home.

Alan, it's kinda like deploring that "both sides had fire at their demonstrations". But not making a fine distinction between the tiki-torch guys hollering chants about Jews, and the folks at the memorial a few days later singing spirituals at a candlelight vigil.

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 03:14 PM
no, i'm saying it most likely wouldn't have happened in the first place. and jesus, how many times do i have to say it wasn't justified, or equal, or anything other than wrong? saying he was provoked doesn't mean i'm saying he was JUSTIFIED.You are making assumptions you can't make. An old adage I remember is,"If you draw a gun, better use it?"

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 03:16 PM
a fine distinction between the tiki-torch guys hollering chants about Jews, and the folks at the memorial a few days later singing spirituals at a candlelight vigil.

Tom,

Aren't you just splitting hairs? :)

TomF
08-28-2017, 03:19 PM
Tom,

Aren't you just splitting hairs? :)I hope not. My intent was to singe the hairs off altogether .

skuthorp
08-28-2017, 03:24 PM
My ideology and common sense tells me not to bring a gun to a political rally. Does yours?
I agree that is the point Skip, he went to the rally carrying a gun.
No gun, no shooting.
No arrest.

BrianY
08-28-2017, 03:26 PM
no, i'm saying it most likely wouldn't have happened in the first place. and jesus, how many times do i have to say it wasn't justified, or equal, or anything other than wrong? saying he was provoked doesn't mean i'm saying he was JUSTIFIED.

Then why bother bringing up the "bad guys on both sides' argument at all? Unless you're saying that it (the shooting of the gun) wouldn't have happened at all except for the conduct of the other protestors...which is a way of justifying the shooting, isn't it?

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 03:26 PM
I agree that is the point Skip, he went to the rally carrying a gun.
No gun, no shooting.
No arrest.


same logic dictates: no rocks thrown, no shots fired, no arrest.

TomF
08-28-2017, 03:37 PM
No tiki-torch marches hollering antisemitism, no need for coubter-protesters at all.

Give it up, Alan. The provocation originated with the neo-Nazis... not the folks counter-protesting. And the violence started with them too, if video and reporter accounts are true. The counter-protesters got rolling once they were attacked.

It became consensual fighting, but originated with the Tiki-torch Nazis. And without their provocation and violence, the other side would not have fought at all.

Canoez
08-28-2017, 03:39 PM
same logic dictates: no rocks thrown, no shots fired, no arrest.

Which is you trying to justify the actions of the Nazi/KKK/other with the gun and no self-control.

Canoez
08-28-2017, 03:40 PM
No tiki-torch marches hollering antisemitism, no need for coubter-protesters at all.

Give it up, Alan. The provocation originated with the neo-Nazis... not the folks counter-protesting. And the violence started with them too, if video and reporter accounts are true. The counter-protesters got rolling once they were attacked.

It became consensual fighting, but originated with the Tiki-torch Nazis. And without their provocation and violence, the other side would not have fought at all.

It was obvious from the procession and the choice of slogans that the Nazis/KKK were there to provoke, not to protest the removal of statues that perpetuate and glorify the memory of traitors to the Nation.

George Jung
08-28-2017, 03:44 PM
Yer trying too hard, Alan; better relax, before ya hurt yerself. Let's make it simple - if you're just marching 'for a cause', you don't need 1) torches 2) staves to carry your 'battle flags' 3) body armor 4) shields 5) hand guns and AR-15s.

OTOH, if you're looking to intimidate, or (be faint my beating heart!) shoot someone (only someone who 'has it a'comin'), then all of the above have a use.

See - easypeasy.

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 03:45 PM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by AlanMc http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=5329082#post5329082)
same logic dictates: no rocks thrown, no shots fired, no arrest.




Logic tells me if you don't have a gun at a rally, you can't use it!

BrianY
08-28-2017, 03:45 PM
same logic dictates: no rocks thrown, no shots fired, no arrest.

Ahh...so you ARE saying that the shooter was justified! Well, that clears things up.

John of Phoenix
08-28-2017, 03:49 PM
do you? are you also missing the point?Isn't it hilarious when everyone ELSE misses the point.

:D LMAO :D

Breakaway
08-28-2017, 03:52 PM
[QUOTE]Logic tells me if you don't have a gun at a rally, you can't use it![/QU
OTE]

True. But it's also true that you can carry a gun and not fire it. Hundreds of people at that protest proved that point. Not that I am siding with the KKK, but there it is.

Kevin

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 03:54 PM
It's import to remember how things began on the Friday before.


By 8:45 p.m. Friday, a column of about 250 mostly young white males, many wearing khaki pants and white polo shirts, began to stretch across the shadowy Nameless Field, a large expanse of grass behind Memorial Gymnasium at the University of Virginia. Their torches, filled with kerosene by workers at a nearby table, were still dark.
“Stay in formation!” barked an organizer carrying a bullhorn. “Two by two! Two by two!”
Within minutes, marchers lit their torches. Additional organizers, wearing earpieces and carrying radios, ran up and down the line shouting directions.
“Now! Now! Go!”
The marchers took off at a brisk pace and immediately began yelling slogans: “Blood and soil!” “You will not replace us!” “Jews will not replace us!”

(Tim Dodson/ The Cavalier Daily)


The chants echoed as the group marched past the iconic halls of the university founded by Thomas Jefferson, paraded down the middle of the hallowed Lawn, climbed to the rotunda and converged on a statue of Jefferson himself.
There they met their enemy. A group of about 30 U-Va. students — students of color and white students — had locked arms around the base of the statue to face down the hundreds of torchbearers. The marchers circled the statue. Some made monkey noises at the black counterprotesters. Then they began chanting, “White lives matter!”


Within moments, there was chaos. Shoves. Punches. Both groups sprayed chemical irritants. Many marchers threw their torches toward the statue and the students.

Other than one university police officer, there was no sign of law enforcement along the march, and it was several minutes before police intervened. Both sides suffered injuries. They relied mostly on their cohorts for treatment until emergency personnel arrived.

George Jung
08-28-2017, 03:55 PM
That's true. But just curious - to what purpose would you carry a gun to a protest?


Take yer time.....

LeeG
08-28-2017, 03:57 PM
That's true. But just curious - to what purpose would you carry a gun to a protest?


Take yer time.....

Become a martyr

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 04:00 PM
Ahh...so you ARE saying that the shooter was justified! Well, that clears things up.


derp derp derp.

provocation doesn't equal justification

but, derp derp derp all you like.

Breakaway
08-28-2017, 04:06 PM
That's true. But just curious - to what purpose would you carry a gun to a protest?

I wouldn't.
I also wouldn't confront a bunch of dickheads looking for a fight unless I was looking for a fight myself.

Kevin

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 04:09 PM
I wouldn't.
I also wouldn't confront a bunch of dickheads looking for a fight unless I was looking for a fight myself.

KevinI wouldn't either!

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 04:16 PM
I wouldn't.
I also wouldn't confront a bunch of dickheads looking for a fight unless I was looking for a fight myself.

Kevin


you know what i would like to see(or not see)? the 200 nazis show up for their march and NO ONE came to see their dumb arses. no protesters, no tv crews, no one. they are irrelevant and don't deserve the attention they seek.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 04:22 PM
it is interesting what he was charged with:

Preston is charged with discharging a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school, a felony that carries up to 10 years in prison.


Richard Wilson Preston, 52

https://cdn.freakoutnation.com/uploads/2017/08/richard-wilson-preston-cville-shooter-screen-DSN.png

AlanMc
08-28-2017, 04:24 PM
it is interesting what he was charged with:

Preston is charged with discharging a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school, a felony that carries up to 10 years in prison.


Richard Wilson Preston, 52


sadly, he won't get half of that. is the DP on the table for the moron in the car?

Breakaway
08-28-2017, 04:25 PM
you know what i would like to see(or not see)? the 200 nazis show up for their march and NO ONE came to see their dumb arses. no protesters, no tv crews, no one. they are irrelevant and don't deserve the attention they seek.

I agree.

Kevin

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 04:26 PM
Baltimore Sun:

52-year-old Baltimore man has been arrested and charged with firing a gun at the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., earlier this month.Richard Wilson Preston was arrested Saturday in Maryland and charged with discharging a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school during the Aug. 12 rally, Charlottesville police said. Preston fired a gun in the 100 block of West Market Street, police said in a news release.

Court records list his address in the 5800 block of Cedonia Ave. in the Northeast Baltimore neighborhood of Cedmont. He was identified in news reports as imperial wizard of a Ku Klux Klan chapter in Maryland.
In 2013, a man namedRichard Preston who identified himself as imperial wizard of the Baltimore-area Confederate White Knights told The BaltimoreSun that the organization was not racist at its origins, saying that it lost its way during the civil rights era of the 1960s.

"There was a lot of conflict,” he said. “It gave the Klan a very bad name."
Preston was arrested Saturday on a fugitive warrant issued in Virginia. He was being held at the Baltimore County Detention Center. Nobody answered the door at his home Sunday. There was no lawyer listed for him in Maryland online court records.
The ACLU of Virginia posted a video that it said showed a man firing at another person at the Aug. 12 Charlottesville rally. The group tweeted Saturday that the man had been arrested and charged with a crime, but did not identify him.
The ACLU saidstaff members discovered the footage during a routine review of photos and videos from the rally. The group said it handed the video to the FBI on Aug. 17 and gave copies to Virginia State Police and Charlottesville police a few days later.


The ACLU of Virginia could not be reached for further comment Sunday.
On Sunday, the Bryn Mawr School in Baltimore sent an email to its community saying Preston was a maintenance worker at the school from 1996-2001.
"Though his employment was in the distant past, we are deeply disturbed by Mr. Preston’s alleged actions and associations. Hatred and racism are completely antithetical to our values," the school said in the email. "We stand united against bigotry, prejudice and violence of any kind."
Charlottesville police said two more men have been arrested in connection with the rally. Daniel Patrick Borden, 18, was charged with malicious wounding and is in custody in Cincinnati. Alex Michael Ramos was charged with malicious wounding. His last known residence was Marietta, Ga.
Police also said Saturday they have now identified 35 people who were injured when a car plowed into a crowd on Aug. 12, killing a woman.
James Alex Fields Jr. faces second-degree murder charges for allegedlydriving a car into counter-protesters and killing Heather Heyer. He has been in custody since the day of the rally.

David G
08-28-2017, 04:50 PM
you did see the part where they were throwing things at him right? while not as serious as gun fire, that's still BOTH SIDES doing something wrong.


that there were people on BOTH SIDES acting like morons. some more moronic than others.


sounds like you guys are way too partisan driven. let's break this down 2nd grader style. is throwing objects at people RIGHT or WRONG? is shooting at people RIGHT or WRONG?

in the scenario in question, EVERYONE should have been arrested for various crimes.

Sounds like you are elaborating and developing your original statement. That's good - because that original statement was, at best, a denial of the variance in the degree of offense/illigality of the 'both sides'.

It's true that 'both' sides were offensive in a variety of ways. The nazi fired a weapon... because the antifa threw something... because the nazis were yelling 'fickle you'... because the antifa were jeering and calling names... because the nazis were showing public support for a traitorous dogma.

Would you like to score that bout in terms of 'levels of offensive'??? How about levels of illegality. I can tell you how I'd score it... and it ain't looking good for dingbats that come along to point out that 'both sides' were bad, because one spit on someone's shoe, and got his nose broken in return. In fact the levels of offense were so mismatched... that one can only be viewed as a nazi sympathizer when one undertakes to say, 'Yeah... but what about that spit on my buddies shoe??'. Are you a Nazi sympathizer... or are you just striking a pose as one to be difficult/stubborn/obnoxious?

Peerie Maa
08-28-2017, 04:51 PM
That's true. But just curious - to what purpose would you carry a gun to a protest?


Take yer time.....

Because you feel the need for a penis extension?

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 05:13 PM
I also wouldn't confront a bunch of dickheads looking for a fight unless I was looking for a fight myself.

You say that like looking to fight Nazis is a bad thing.

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 05:14 PM
you know what i would like to see(or not see)? the 200 nazis show up for their march and NO ONE came to see their dumb arses. no protesters, no tv crews, no one. they are irrelevant and don't deserve the attention they seek.

I'm just going to put this out there for you to think about: the Holocaust didn't just happen because Nazis. It happened because nobody stopped the Nazis.

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 05:22 PM
i'm just going to put this out there for you to think about: The holocaust didn't just happen because nazis. It happened because nobody stopped the nazis.bingo!

Phillip Allen
08-28-2017, 05:29 PM
I'm just going to put this out there for you to think about: the Holocaust didn't just happen because Nazis. It happened because nobody stopped the Nazis.

good, now go to North Korea and start throwing rocks... let us know how well it works

TomF
08-28-2017, 05:32 PM
good, now go to North Korea and start throwing rocks... let us know how well it works
Trump is already way ahead on that one, Phillip.

Flying Orca
08-28-2017, 05:32 PM
Did somebody say "shucks"?

S.V. Airlie
08-28-2017, 05:38 PM
Trump is already way ahead on that one, Phillip.Yup, he's thrown a lot of threats at them.

skuthorp
08-28-2017, 06:05 PM
you know what i would like to see(or not see)? the 200 nazis show up for their march and NO ONE came to see their dumb arses. no protesters, no tv crews, no one. they are irrelevant and don't deserve the attention they seek.
I absolutely agree Alan, deny them any mainstream coverage at all, but social media has changed all that and the cat is out of the bag.
And of course demonstrations sell, counter demo's. more so, a bit of violence is icing on the advertising cake. And if someone open's fire the sky's the limit.

mdh
08-28-2017, 07:46 PM
you know what i would like to see(or not see)? the 200 nazis show up for their march and NO ONE came to see their dumb arses. no protesters, no tv crews, no one. they are irrelevant and don't deserve the attention they seek.

Meee tooo. Sounds like Sessions is gonna hammer this stuff. He has a record of prosecuting these guys.

BrianW
08-28-2017, 11:26 PM
How do we know it wasn't a liberal shooting the gun to make the righties look bad?

mdh
08-28-2017, 11:36 PM
He had kkk garb on in the pic.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 11:42 PM
He had kkk garb on in the pic.


Photoshop, part of the ACLU plan to make righties look bad.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-28-2017, 11:45 PM
How do we know it wasn't a liberal shooting the gun to make the righties look bad?


Oh, I'm sure there are lots of liberal wizards in the KKK

Joe (SoCal)
08-28-2017, 11:53 PM
How do we know it wasn't a liberal shooting the gun to make the righties look bad?

Aww really BDub ???? :( Have you gone all Info-Wars tinfoil hat on us ? :(

Mike V.
08-29-2017, 12:01 AM
How do we know it wasn't a liberal shooting the gun to make the righties look bad?

You embarrass yourself.

gypsie
08-29-2017, 01:41 AM
How do we know it wasn't a liberal shooting the gun to make the righties look bad?

It was a Chinese conspirator in cahoots with NASA. He was attempting to undermine funding for the production of pointy space helmets. Trump, in his infinite wisdom, has decided to ignore all scientists on the planet. He's utterly convinced, and with good reason, that he is the greatest authority on space travel. He believes Astronauts will survive longer on less food if their helmets are pointy. He did want them gold plated but feared he'd never get the budget through congress as congress won't approve anything he does, ever (bunch of mindless lefty communist fake news'ers). And Nasa who are desperate to change Trumps mind have conspired with the Chinese to paint pointy white hats in a bad light. So it was a communist, paid by extreme leftist chardonnay and latte drinking communist scientists trying to make pointy white hats look bad so the right would look bad.

I mean - isn't it obvious?

gypsie
08-29-2017, 02:30 AM
you know what i would like to see(or not see)? the 200 nazis show up for their march and NO ONE came to see their dumb arses. no protesters, no tv crews, no one. they are irrelevant and don't deserve the attention they seek.

i agree with your sentiment but i think its naive (or intentionally oblique).
i think the TV crews would have shown up. TV crews have shown up elsewhere when there was no counter protest.

But more importantly it is unconscionable to allow them to air their message without a response.

True - those nazis were there to fight, they wanted it and nurtured it. They came armed, they hid weapons around the town and they behaved violently from the start. The bile they spew is shocking. Its easy to understand why people would be outraged that these out of town thugs would come in and spew that rubbish in their streets.

To try to present the whole incident as simply 'someone threw something and someone responded' is to ignore all of the semiotics of the nazi flags and salutes, the hate that the KKK stand for, the offensiveness of their message, the impact on your town and simply how much they are responsible for the aggression and the degree to which they provoked the response they got. You can't pare away all that and assess the incident in isolation - its simply disingenuous.

At no level are the white supremacists victims - no matter what was chucked at them - they intentionally provoked that response.
At no level is preventing their message from being aired unopposed, bad - i think it is a moral duty to oppose it.

So NO - responding to that level of provocation and chucking stuff at the White Supremacists is not bad, it is completely understandable. Therefore NO, bad was not done on all sides.

"Grand Wizard of the White Knights" - bloody la la land.....

Peerie Maa
08-29-2017, 05:26 AM
How do we know it wasn't a liberal shooting the gun to make the righties look bad?

Not found that satire emoji yet I see.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-29-2017, 05:51 AM
That looks like discussing people....

ishmael
08-29-2017, 06:56 AM
Does anyone know what actually happened in the incident? As John of Phoenix pointed out on the first page, the Virginia State Police say they were right there and didn't notice it?????

You fellows do like to spin your wheels, though, don'cha?;)

Peerie Maa
08-29-2017, 07:16 AM
Does anyone know what actually happened in the incident? As John of Phoenix pointed out on the first page, the Virginia State Police say they were right there and didn't notice it?????

You fellows do like to spin your wheels, though, don'cha?;)

Jack, it is available as a video record.
Open the CNN link and watch it for yourself.

ishmael
08-29-2017, 07:21 AM
Nick,

Has anyone here seen/posted said video? I haven't waded through all the verbiage and ire here.

You understand that the reports are at this point contradictory? If a shot was fired, and the State Police were on the scene, why didn't they arrest the fellow? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but asking what do we really know at this point?

Cross post. OK I'll look for it.

CK 17
08-29-2017, 07:48 AM
you did see the part where they were throwing things at him right? while not as serious as gun fire, that's still BOTH SIDES doing something wrong.

I saw this on twitter: "Both sides have bad people, only one side has good people". I don't disagree. . .

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-29-2017, 07:57 AM
Nick,

Has anyone here seen/posted said video? I haven't waded through all the verbiage and ire here.

You understand that the reports are at this point contradictory? If a shot was fired, and the State Police were on the scene, why didn't they arrest the fellow? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but asking what do we really know at this point?

Cross post. OK I'll look for it.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/94452126-132.html


Apparently the police were not in the line of sight and in the din of the noise didn't hear or couldn't twll where the shot was fired.

ishmael
08-29-2017, 08:02 AM
Ok, watched the vid. Apparently, the fellow firing the gun was shooting at someone with an improvised flame thrower! Not, as most here seem to be saying, a protester throwing bottles. HM. I'll never find myself in such a situation, but setting aside politics, if someone comes at me with a flame thrower, and I'm armed...with whatever...

It will be interesting to see this go to trial.

ishmael
08-29-2017, 08:19 AM
Someone obviously had a spray can of something and was using it as a flame thrower! He wasn't just throwing stuff. I wasn't there, I don't know how this went down by looking at a brief video. Like I said, it will be an interesting trial.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-29-2017, 08:20 AM
The man with the aerosol can and cigarette lighter (Mr. Spraycan) should be found and arrested if he hasn't been already.

In that video I don't see how Mr. Spraycan's actions could be seen as justification for Mr. Preston walking twenty feet passed him turning around drawing a pistol advancing toward him (Mr. Spraycan) and firing at him with an automatic pistol. I think Mr. Preston will have a harder time in court than you appear to insinuate.

But you and I seem to see things quite differently.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-29-2017, 08:23 AM
What would your father and grandfather think about your new found respect for the rights of Nazis?

If you are now so concerned for these civil liberties will you start supporting the ACLU?

The ACLU protects liberties no matter what side of the political spectrum in under fire.

Canoez
08-29-2017, 08:23 AM
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/18/corey-long-protest-photo-charlottesville-sot-ctn.cnn/video/playlists/charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally/

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-29-2017, 08:26 AM
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/18/corey-long-protest-photo-charlottesville-sot-ctn.cnn/video/playlists/charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally/

this man doesn't appear to be telling the whole truth.

Canoez
08-29-2017, 08:27 AM
this man doesn't appear to be telling the whole truth.

Likely, but that's what it is.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-29-2017, 08:30 AM
and still not relevant to Mr. Preston drawing his pistol and firing at the others!

Peerie Maa
08-29-2017, 08:31 AM
Judging by the reach of the flame, he'd have done more damage throwing the can.

ishmael
08-29-2017, 08:34 AM
To whom was your comment about fighting Nazis addressed Skip? My father was aboard LST 639 during the war in the Pacific. He got into the war fairly late, but would have been engaged in the planned invasion of the Japanese mainland - save for the bomb. Save for the bomb, it's likely I wouldn't be typing this.

All of which is beside the point. We don't know what happened in this incident from looking at a brief video. Much more information will come out at trial. And, even a gun-toting guy at a right wing rally is, last I checked, entitled to a fair trial.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-29-2017, 08:39 AM
To whom was your comment about fighting Nazis addressed to Skip? My father was aboard LST 639 during the war in the Pacific. He got into the war fairly late, but would have been engaged in the planned invasion of the Japanese mainland - save for the bomb. Save for the bomb, it's likely I wouldn't be typing this.

All of which is beside the point. We don't know what happened in this incident from looking at a brief video. Much more information will come out at trial. And, even a gun-toting guy at a right wing rally is, last I checked, entitled to a fair trial.

America owes your father a great deal of respect. I'm sure we are all grateful for his service!

.......So it's fair to say..... your father would not be supporting these Nazis.

Peerie Maa
08-29-2017, 08:40 AM
To whom was your comment about fighting Nazis addressed to Skip? My father was aboard LST 639 during the war in the Pacific. He got into the war fairly late, but would have been engaged in the planned invasion of the Japanese mainland - save for the bomb. Save for the bomb, it's likely I wouldn't be typing this.

All of which is beside the point. We don't know what happened in this incident from looking at a brief video. Much more information will come out at trial. And, even a gun-toting guy at a right wing rally is, last I checked, entitled to a fair trial.

With that video evidence and the specific crime, it'll be a short trial.

Canoez
08-29-2017, 08:45 AM
To whom was your comment about fighting Nazis addressed to Skip? My father was aboard LST 639 during the war in the Pacific. He got into the war fairly late, but would have been engaged in the planned invasion of the Japanese mainland - save for the bomb. Save for the bomb, it's likely I wouldn't be typing this.

All of which is beside the point. We don't know what happened in this incident from looking at a brief video. Much more information will come out at trial. And, even a gun-toting guy at a right wing rally is, last I checked, entitled to a fair trial.

A man who was the Imperial Wizard of the KKK in Maryland brought a gun to a rally and this happens per CNN:


After several seconds, the man in the video, who is wearing a load-bearing vest, with a pistol on one leg and extra magazines on the other, turns away from the argument and walks away. Before reaching the edge of the frame, he turns back, drawing a pistol and shouting "Hey, n****r."


With his pistol out and pointed at the crowd, he walks toward them before pausing, taking a step back, and racking the slide to load a bullet in his weapon's chamber. The man aims again, seemingly lower, and quickly fires a shot, before turning around, holstering his weapon, and rejoining the march.



We don't know? Sorry, Jack - that doesn't wash.

ishmael
08-29-2017, 08:49 AM
Hyperbole? Perhaps, but I wouldn't want to stand in front of a lighted spray can. Look at the vid! Peaceful protester, not!

Skip,

How is saying the man deserves a fair trial standing up for Nazis? Jeez, this argument really is pointless - talk about false equivalence.

I need to go mow the lawn. Good luck, my fellows.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-29-2017, 08:49 AM
For Mr. Spraycan, now that his identity is know, the Commonwealth's Attorney should prepare charges or refer the mater to a grand jury. There isn't clear-cut evidence in the film I've seen but this needs to be investigated and prosecuted if there is determined to be just cause.

Duncan Gibbs
08-29-2017, 08:57 AM
But... Nazis... :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnrRy6kSFF0

Flying Orca
08-29-2017, 09:05 AM
There should be a drinking game for such lines.

Oh, I'm pretty sure there is. I think Ish is the only one who knows the rules, though.

ishmael
08-29-2017, 09:26 AM
Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

I don't care who the guy is, the willingness to try people in the press(which is precisely what you guys are doing, albeit using "press" loosely), while it has gone on since time immemorial, is no way to get at what actually happened. A fair trial doesn't always get at it either, but it's the best we've got. Undoubtedly, the vid will be admitted in evidence, along with much other material.

I haven't heard anyone here express sympathy for this fellow, or Nazis in general. The tidbit of evidence in the video looks damning, but that's why we have trials - to look at ALL the evidence. To not do so; to react out of one's political feelings, is one good reason why we have the rule of law, rather than mob rule.

Now, back to that lawn mowing. Sigh. I hate mowing the lawn!;)

Peerie Maa
08-29-2017, 09:33 AM
Jack, the video shows what he did. The charge is discharging a firearm within 1000 foot of a school. They are not going to get that wrong.
Like I said, a short trial.

TomF
08-29-2017, 09:39 AM
I find it difficult to believe that it was the only option for a firearms charge. Though it will be cut and dried.

oznabrag
08-29-2017, 09:45 AM
Aww really BDub ???? :( Have you gone all Info-Wars tinfoil hat on us ? :(

He's been gone for years, Joe.

oznabrag
08-29-2017, 09:52 AM
I find it difficult to believe that it was the only option for a firearms charge. Though it will be cut and dried.

They figured Trump would pull out all the stops to pardon that POS, so they went for the low-hanging fruit.

John of Phoenix
08-29-2017, 09:56 AM
You have just seen the old ish in full blossom. You spoon feed him and he spits it back in your face.

:D LMAO :D

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-29-2017, 09:57 AM
That could be just the arresting charge with others to follow as the Commonwealths Attorney builds the case. At least that is my hope.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-29-2017, 10:00 AM
Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

I don't care who the guy is, the willingness to try people in the press(which is precisely what you guys are doing, albeit using "press" loosely), while it has gone on since time immemorial, is no way to get at what actually happened. A fair trial doesn't always get at it either, but it's the best we've got. Undoubtedly, the vid will be admitted in evidence, along with much other material.

I haven't heard anyone here express sympathy for this fellow, or Nazis in general. The tidbit of evidence in the video looks damning, but that's why we have trials - to look at ALL the evidence. To not do so; to react out of one's political feelings, is one good reason why we have the rule of law, rather than mob rule.

Now, back to that lawn mowing. Sigh. I hate mowing the lawn!;)

https://www.mhprofessional.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/9/7/9780078609701.jpg


https://media.proprofs.com/images/QM/user_images/1756028/4349662578.gif

Canoeyawl
08-29-2017, 10:05 AM
Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

I don't care who the guy is, the willingness to try people in the press(which is precisely what you guys are doing, albeit using "press" loosely), while it has gone on since time immemorial, is no way to get at what actually happened. A fair trial doesn't always get at it either, but it's the best we've got. Undoubtedly, the vid will be admitted in evidence, along with much other material.

I haven't heard anyone here express sympathy for this fellow, or Nazis in general. The tidbit of evidence in the video looks damning, but that's why we have trials - to look at ALL the evidence. To not do so; to react out of one's political feelings, is one good reason why we have the rule of law, rather than mob rule.

Now, back to that lawn mowing. Sigh. I hate mowing the lawn!;)

How do you mow under that Toyota?

oznabrag
08-29-2017, 10:05 AM
You have just seen the old ish in full blossom. You spoon feed him and he spits back it in your face.

:D LMAO :D

Not only that, but he'll argue the other side of the coin as he feels expedient.

Flying Orca
08-29-2017, 10:09 AM
Not only that, but he'll argue the other side of the coin as he feels expedient.

Ish is a movable feast.

amish rob
08-29-2017, 10:14 AM
I'm mowing, too. Still the big bushwhacker, as the new owner ain't picked it up, and I ain't got a new scythe running, yet. :)
I think I have too much fun with that thing. It will cut down saplings! It runs awesome since whatever little plastic bit it was that melted out of the carb melted out. Plug looks better, too.

Course, I do have to walk behind it, but I actually enjoy moving around and doing stuff. Weird, eh?

Peace,
Robert

stromborg
08-29-2017, 11:57 AM
Jack, the video shows what he did. The charge is discharging a firearm within 1000 foot of a school. They are not going to get that wrong.
Like I said, a short trial.

After those bozos who took over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge got off, I no longer have the same level of faith in our system that you do.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-29-2017, 04:21 PM
I'm mowing, too.


Course, I do have to walk behind it, but I actually enjoy moving around and doing stuff. Weird, eh?

Peace,
Robert

Walk behind it?????

Get a real one
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a9/af/f7/a9aff736f07795ff9934406c16715ab0.jpg

amish rob
08-29-2017, 04:31 PM
Walk behind it?????

Get a real one
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a9/af/f7/a9aff736f07795ff9934406c16715ab0.jpg

Wow. Talk about taking a quote out of context. I even mentioned I'm between scythes. I'm trying to find a snath I can handle comfortably with my newly acquired posture and style.

I still use a small sickle to cut the long grass under the trees, where I don't run the mower.

Peace,
Robert

Paul Pless
08-29-2017, 04:32 PM
You have just seen the old ish in full blossom. You spoon feed him and he spits it back in your face.

:D LMAO :Dscoreboard tits!

Flying Orca
08-29-2017, 07:00 PM
scoreboard tits!

lmao!

Aquinian
08-30-2017, 01:01 AM
"but the gun was worse"

No Alan, I think we all get your point.


Are there fees for filing moral bankruptcy? It must be easy since s many are doing it. Or do you need to even file? Does it just suddenly happen?

I think we need to frame some of these posts in which people of the Left condemn the relativising of moral failures. Every time one of them ever says anything to compare the Soviet Union favourably to Nazi Germany (the only state in history they can even plausibly employ in such a comparison) we can point to the framed posts and raise an eyebrow.

As if relativising moral failings is not the constant well-oiled practice of the left in the West!

:)

ishmael
08-30-2017, 05:47 AM
Scoreboard tits? It took me awhile, but I think I get what Paul was saying. I'm not quite sure why he said it, but that's for him to explain - if he wishes.

On the topic of argument: I was, back in the day, a member of my high school debate team. My dear friend Steve was also a member, and my mother used to say of the two of us, "Given enough time those two could convince someone a freshly cut lawn is astro-turf!" Steve was a rank above me, and I was no piker. It was a handy skill to develop when dealing with one's parents.;)

Being an introvert, however, I can't say I liked formal debate all that much. Standing in front of panel of judges to make an argument was nerve wracking.

I also took a wonderful semester of logic in college. I was good at verbal logic, not so much symbolic, which is more akin to mathematics - a study I never really grokked.

Enough reminiscing. There are tricks in debate and logic, which a good opponent will point out; logical fallacies(appeal to emotion, false equivalence, to name two)without resorting to another, ad hominem: attacking the opponent not their argument. I may have lost a step or two since or two since college, but I still have a few teeth left in my head.

Because of the tense divisions, in the country and on this board, all of us are liable to fall into fallacy from time to time. Is there a "tits on the scoreboard" fallacy? Inquiring minds want to know.;)

For some reason, George Carlin's "the seven words you can't say on television" has been coming back this morning. He rattled them off: "S*** P*** F*** C*** M*********** C********* and tits. And tits doesn't even belong on the list, man! It's such a friendly word." As we dropping the word haven't been Scot-ed(yet), I guess Carlin got his wish, at least here on the forum.

"I am just a pilgrim on this road, boys
This ain't never been my home
Sometimes the road was rocky 'long the way, boys
But I was never travelin' alone."

Steve Earl

Be well, my fellow pilgrims on the highway.

Jack

jack grebe
08-30-2017, 09:24 AM
scoreboard tits!

Paul, shame on you........ No link!

Duncan Gibbs
08-30-2017, 09:43 AM
I think we need to frame some of these posts in which people of the Left condemn the relativising of moral failures. Every time one of them ever says anything to compare the Soviet Union favourably to Nazi Germany (the only state in history they can even plausibly employ in such a comparison) we can point to the framed posts and raise an eyebrow.

As if relativising moral failings is not the constant well-oiled practice of the left in the West!

:)
I'll give you a frame: I have ZERO problems with people chucking rocks and bottles at Nazis. None whatsoever. If some Nazi douche pulls out a gun and starts shooting at people, I'll have even less problem with the crowd turning on him and ripping his head off.

My Granddad fought against Nazis. The banner under which these douchebags were marching in Charlottesville represents a celebration of mass murder and genocide. If anything happens to them, tough chit.

And if I should ever see one of them and their banners in Australia, they'll know exactly what I think of them by the time I'm done.

How's that for a "frame?"

Flying Orca
08-30-2017, 09:49 AM
"Hear, hear - well spoken, Bruce!"

ishmael
08-30-2017, 10:02 AM
Who's Bruce?

Peerie Maa
08-30-2017, 10:17 AM
Who's Bruce?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNBy1D1Y0h4

amish rob
08-30-2017, 10:18 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNBy1D1Y0h4
I thought so, but I wasn't sure.

Right! New Bruce...

Hehe.

Peace,
Clicket

Osborne Russell
08-30-2017, 10:20 AM
I'll give you a frame: I have ZERO problems with people chucking rocks and bottles at Nazis.

Make sure and keep the list updated so people will know to stay home.

Peerie Maa
08-30-2017, 10:24 AM
Make sure and keep the list updated so people will know to stay home.

Eggs are the traditional expression of contempt here.
Convenient, in a frangible container, just the right heft, and spectacularly messy.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02898/nigoeuf_farage_2898583k.jpg

oznabrag
08-30-2017, 10:37 AM
I think we need to frame some of these posts in which people of the Left condemn the relativising of moral failures. Every time one of them ever says anything to compare the Soviet Union favourably to Nazi Germany (the only state in history they can even plausibly employ in such a comparison) we can point to the framed posts and raise an eyebrow.

As if relativising moral failings is not the constant well-oiled practice of the left in the West!

:)

And ludicrous projection of their own failings onto others is the province of the Right.

CWSmith
08-30-2017, 10:51 AM
Eggs are the traditional expression of contempt here. Convenient, in a frangible container, just the right heft, and spectacularly messy. Also, surprisingly civilized.

Canoez
08-30-2017, 10:59 AM
If the man carrying the gun was identified as a "liberul", there are posters here who would be calling for his head on a platter.

AlanMc
08-30-2017, 11:14 AM
If the man carrying the gun was identified as a "liberul", there are posters here who would be calling for his head on a platter.



everyone in here has called for his head, or have you missed that? thanks for playing the partisan politics game. here's your prize

http://www.thequotabletees.com/products/1/23332608.png

John of Phoenix
08-30-2017, 11:23 AM
scoreboard tits!:D You crack me up, man. :D