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View Full Version : Correct me if I'm wrong, but... illegal orders



John Smith
08-27-2017, 07:39 AM
I recall that even those in the military can refuse an illegal order.

Is Trump's ban on transgenders not an illegal order?

Ian McColgin
08-27-2017, 07:44 AM
It may be illegal but it looks like it was minimally crafted to put the problem on Defense. No doubt attorneys in and out of government are sharpening their word processors in anticipation.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-27-2017, 07:50 AM
I don't believe it is illegal. The Employment Non-Discrimination Act ENDA has been blocked. There are no federal employment or housing protections for sexual orientation.

Immoral, yes illegal, though road to prove.

L.W. Baxter
08-27-2017, 07:53 AM
But, Skip, gender identity is not an issue of sexual orientation.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-27-2017, 08:00 AM
But, Skip, gender identity is not an issue of sexual orientation.

True but.....They are lumped together in most legalistic applications.

wizbang 13
08-27-2017, 08:20 AM
True but.....They are lumped together in most legalistic applications.

Along with pedophiles.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-27-2017, 08:23 AM
Sadly true!

CWSmith
08-27-2017, 08:35 AM
I have faith that this, too, will pass. What I do not know is what it is going to take or how long? I am continually reminded of how yellow jackets and other wasps get most aggressive late in the summer when their lives are coming to an end. Times are changing and our country has moved forward a great distance in recent decades. Those that lag behind are angry and unable to accept change. We simply need to move forward without their approval.

jack grebe
08-27-2017, 09:01 AM
Along with pedophiles.

Only by idiots.

LeeG
08-27-2017, 09:23 AM
Maybe the Occupant of the WhiteHouse can tweet a response to this retired sailor.


http://missoulian.com/news/government-and-politics/zinke-s-veteran-daughter-excoriates-trump-in-response-to-transgender/article_3b731feb-8f36-5335-a9d1-2a17e4c0d686.html

Gerarddm
08-27-2017, 09:32 AM
According to Nixon's jaw-dropping assertion to David Frost, if a president does something it can't be illegal.

Jim Mahan
08-27-2017, 10:09 AM
We simply need to move forward without their approval.

May they attrit off into the sunset and thence into the dim past, soonest.

Too Little Time
08-27-2017, 10:29 AM
I recall that even those in the military can refuse an illegal order.

Is Trump's ban on transgenders not an illegal order?
It is difficult to tell if the order is legal or illegal. I think history indicates that once people are given a right it is difficult to take the right away. That might suggest that the order is illegal.

Bobcat
08-27-2017, 10:54 AM
It is difficult to tell if the order is legal or illegal. I think history indicates that once people are given a right it is difficult to take the right away. That might suggest that the order is illegal.
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People aren't given rights; they have rights

Canoeyawl
08-27-2017, 11:07 AM
Likely this is Pence's work...

Osborne Russell
08-27-2017, 11:10 AM
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People aren't given rights; they have rights

Self-evidently. Among these rights are . . .

Lew Barrett
08-27-2017, 11:11 AM
No doubt. Trump probably didn't know what transgender meant until Pence told him.

John Smith
08-27-2017, 12:03 PM
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People aren't given rights; they have rights

People only have the rights the governing body allows them to have.

Canoeyawl
08-27-2017, 12:09 PM
Some have the right to "stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody"​

CWSmith
08-27-2017, 12:10 PM
People only have the rights the governing body allows them to have.

No. On this, we must agree with the alt-Right. Government may only have the rights that the people allow it to have.

We must insist on this every time we vote and every time we sit on a jury.

oznabrag
08-27-2017, 12:21 PM
No. On this, we must agree with the alt-Right. Government may only have the rights that the people allow it to have.

We must insist on this every time we vote and every time we sit on a jury.

The alt.right doesn't believe that, even if they do say so.

We must agree with the entire Enlightenment: The government may only have the rights the people allow it to have.

Osborne Russell
08-27-2017, 12:25 PM
People only have the rights the governing body allows them to have.

Says who, by what authority?

Too Little Time
08-27-2017, 02:29 PM
Says who, by what authority?
I did not realize there was a can of worms. I am sorry. Perhaps I should have said once a right is recognized, it is difficult to reverse that decision.

Transsexuals have always have had rights. The government did not recognize those rights until recently. Now it wants to undo part of that recognition.

It is strange. In the 60's people were fighting to stay out of the military and now a different set of people demand to be in the military. I don't want anyone to have a right to be in the military.

PhaseLockedLoop
08-27-2017, 03:34 PM
...It is strange. In the 60's people were fighting to stay out of the military and now a different set of people demand to be in the military.

Yep. In those days the guys who didn't want to be in the military, like me, also regarded the FBI and the CIA as nefarious organizations, while today many see them (CIA, FBI) as wise and judicious bodies that not only seek truth but find it and promote it.

John Smith
08-27-2017, 07:36 PM
The alt.right doesn't believe that, even if they do say so.

We must agree with the entire Enlightenment: The government may only have the rights the people allow it to have.

Tell that to the women in Saudi, or the people in Syria.

webishop14
08-27-2017, 08:23 PM
The problem with an illegal order is that it is a Catch 22. To not obey an illegal order is to disobey a direct order, punishable by Court Martial. All too frequently the order is not determined to have been illegal until long after the soldier has been executed.

Peerie Maa
08-29-2017, 07:27 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41072188

Gerarddm
08-29-2017, 08:58 AM
#26: Executed? Who, where, when? I have heard of executions for desertion, but not for failure to follow an illegal order.

oznabrag
08-29-2017, 09:36 AM
Tell that to the women in Saudi, or the people in Syria.

Do you REALLY BELIEVE that those people need ME to tell them their rights have been violated?

REALLY?

sandtown
08-29-2017, 10:54 AM
Y'all are missing the main point, which is that Congress has the right to regulate the military.

From Sec. 8 "To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces"

The imperial presidency has progressed to the point where it is not even recognized . .

So yes, it is an illegal order.

Slight correction: Well, if we actually lived under the rule of law, it would be an illegal order. But since the ROL has been
reduced to little more than a sick joke, the Drumph can likely get away with it.