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John Smith
08-12-2017, 11:26 AM
All of this over the proposed removal of a statue.

Imagine if this statue just remained where it is instead of giving the racists a rallying point.

Imagine if they marched without resistance and without news cameras.

Is this really any different than the first strike between us and NK?

There, the entire world is asking for diplomacy. Let's calm down the rhetoric. Why is this different?

Rich Jones
08-12-2017, 01:10 PM
If it weren't for DT stirring up the white supremacists during the campaign and encouraging violent behavior, these would probably be peaceful protests. The alt right, with their president in the White House, now feel emboldened to come out in the open like the KKK of old.
And the stupid twit calls for calm on Twitter, when he's the one who stirred them up in the first place.

Jim Bow
08-12-2017, 01:18 PM
Notice: the Charlottesville Wal-Mart has sold out its Tiki Torch inventory. White supremacists avoid mosquitoes.
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-08/12/10/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-02/sub-buzz-5753-1502546922-1.jpg

Gerarddm
08-12-2017, 01:40 PM
Man, they even LOOK like real Nazis circa 1930s. Well, except for the guy with the porn moustache in the background.

David G
08-12-2017, 02:19 PM
FWIW - might not be related -- https://www.yahoo.com/news/vehicle-plows-crowd-virginia-city-several-hurt-witnesses-182743401.html

willmarsh3
08-12-2017, 02:53 PM
Live streams on Youtube. Someone drove their vehicle into others on the street. Good grief.

McMike
08-12-2017, 02:56 PM
Live streams on Youtube. Someone drove their vehicle into others on the street. Good grief.

Not good. Disgusting.

CWSmith
08-12-2017, 03:05 PM
Governor declared state of emergency now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/us/charlottesville-protest-white-nationalist.html

skuthorp
08-12-2017, 03:59 PM
…….and so it continues. Divide and rule.

oznabrag
08-12-2017, 04:45 PM
We should have put an end to this in '65.

Arizona Bay
08-12-2017, 04:49 PM
One dead, 19 injured... Nazi drives through a crowd of anti- protesters.
Police got him.
TRMP opened the door for this,
It's gotta stop...


https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/media:34e0a90e96394a68a7f3dc1e7f268e6c/800.jpeg

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (AP) — A car plowed into a crowd of people peacefully protesting a white nationalist rally Saturday in a Virginia college town, killing one person, sending at least 26 others to hospitals and ratcheting up tension in an increasingly violent confrontation.

The chaos boiled over at what is believed to be the largest group of white nationalists to come together in a decade: the governor declared a state of emergency, police dressed in riot gear ordered people out and helicopters circled overhead. The group had gathered to protest plans to remove a statue of the Confederal Gen. Robert E. Lee, and others who arrived to protest the racism.

Matt Korbon, a 22-year-old University of Virginia student, said several hundred counter-protesters were marching when “suddenly there was just this tire screeching sound.” A silver Dodge Challenger smashed into another car, then backed up, barreling through “a sea of people.”

The impact hurled people into the air. Those left standing scattered, screaming and running for safety in different directions.
The driver was later arrested, authorities said.

Graphic video at the link:
https://apnews.com/b8560c3ebaac4deb9043bb695f2eb1db/White-nationalist-rally,-violence-rock-Virginia-city;-1-dead

McMike
08-12-2017, 05:10 PM
Ugly. Trump owns this. Those poor people.

Gerarddm
08-12-2017, 05:17 PM
And our weasel president condemns violence " from all sides".

What "all sides" is this miserable creature referring to?

Fear and loathing, indeed. When is Hunter S Thompson when you need him? ( a rhetorical question )

Arizona Bay
08-12-2017, 05:26 PM
Looks like a terrorist attack to me.

Of all the people and organizations TRMP has attacked, he's never gone after the Domestic Nazi groups or Putin.

TomF
08-12-2017, 05:29 PM
This is absolutely shocking. In fact, I'm having a hard time quite getting clear about what to write about as being more shocking; there's so much damned choice.

Let's pretend for a moment that Obama was in office. Tell me what the howling criticisms would be, about how he'd emboldened things by "playing the race card" incessantly. Bollocks, eh?

So WTF is wrong with the current President, or etc etc. that he's not actually saying something meaningful.

Let's see who tries to make the argument that this is acceptable. that the people of this little town haven't got the right to do with their public monuments what they wish, through the representatives they elect to civic office.

This is absolutely appalling. And I wish I didn't think we were going to see more of it.

Jim Bow
08-12-2017, 05:46 PM
Quit with the "alt right" sand "neo Nazis" call them Klansmen and Nazis.
Will Trump ever use those terms?
I doubt it.
No balls.

Hugh Conway
08-12-2017, 05:48 PM
This is absolutely shocking. In fact, I'm having a hard time quite getting clear about what to write about as being more shocking; there's so much damned choice.

Let's pretend for a moment that Obama was in office. Tell me what the howling criticisms would be, about how he'd emboldened things by "playing the race card" incessantly. Bollocks, eh?

So WTF is wrong with the current President, or etc etc. that he's not actually saying something meaningful.

Let's see who tries to make the argument that this is acceptable. that the people of this little town haven't got the right to do with their public monuments what they wish, through the representatives they elect to civic office.

This is absolutely appalling. And I wish I didn't think we were going to see more of it. Trump needs the white nationalists. He needs those scumbags as a bedrock of support. The rest of the Republican party doesn't - witness Paul Ryan's comment
The views fueling the spectacle in Charlottesville are repugnant. Let it only serve to unite Americans against this kind of vile bigotry.
Trump is the problem.

TomF
08-12-2017, 05:55 PM
Yup. Paul Ryan is saying the right thing. But Trump will not.

Note that the character traits expressed in this tacit support are the same character traits picking potential nuclear fights with NK.

Reynard38
08-12-2017, 05:59 PM
Trump's trying to avoid alienating his base on this one may hasten his demise.

Peerie Maa
08-12-2017, 06:02 PM
I noticed a slight shift. This time he condemned both sides.

PeterSibley
08-12-2017, 06:07 PM
I noticed a slight shift. This time he condemned both sides.

How dare demonstrators standing in the way of speeding cars !

Peerie Maa
08-12-2017, 06:07 PM
From FB :D

President Trump finally addressed the white nationalist rally (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/white-nationalist-rally-virginia-triggers-state-emergency-article-1.3405906) sparking tension in Charlottesville, but only after his wife condemned the violence and a barrage of criticism regarding his silence on the matter.
“We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for,” Trump tweeted (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump). “There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Let’s come together as one.”
He continued: "Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A & all that we have done and are doing to make it better - but Charlottesville sad!
He seemed to be following the lead of his First Lady, who tweeted (https://twitter.com/FLOTUS/status/896409989568507906)about the clash of white nationalists, neo-confederates, alt-right activists and counter-protesters an hour or so ahead of Trump Saturday afternoon.

“Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let’s communicate w/o hate in our heart,” Melania Trump wrote just before 1 p.m. “No good comes from violence.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/melania-trump-speaks-charlottesville-president-article-1.3406140

mariner2k
08-12-2017, 06:24 PM
As long the president a$$wipe has a use for neo nazis, it will never speak ill of them. It has no moral compass. Still campaigning. I agree trump owns this.

John Smith
08-12-2017, 06:26 PM
This is absolutely shocking. In fact, I'm having a hard time quite getting clear about what to write about as being more shocking; there's so much damned choice.

Let's pretend for a moment that Obama was in office. Tell me what the howling criticisms would be, about how he'd emboldened things by "playing the race card" incessantly. Bollocks, eh?

So WTF is wrong with the current President, or etc etc. that he's not actually saying something meaningful.

Let's see who tries to make the argument that this is acceptable. that the people of this little town haven't got the right to do with their public monuments what they wish, through the representatives they elect to civic office.

This is absolutely appalling. And I wish I didn't think we were going to see more of it.

Trump saw the racism, bigotry, and hate that is out there and used it to become president. Now he dares not antagonize that group.

David G
08-12-2017, 07:24 PM
Attack by car is being treated as a 'homocide' by police.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/fights-in-advance-of-saturday-protest-in-charlottesville/2017/08/12/155fb636-7f13-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html



In brief remarks at a late-afternoon news conference to discuss veterans’ health care, Trump said that he was following the events in Charlottesville closely. “The hate and the division must stop and must stop right now,” Trump said, without specifically mentioning white nationalists or their views. “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides. On many sides.”

Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, a Trump supporter who was in Charlottesville Saturday, quickly replied. “I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists,” he wrote.

oznabrag
08-12-2017, 07:34 PM
Attack by car is being treated as a 'homocide' by police.


Perhaps you mean 'homicide'.

Ed Harrow
08-12-2017, 07:38 PM
I note there is also a statue of Thomas Jefferson there. Wait until the 'other side' reads up on him...

David G
08-12-2017, 07:42 PM
Perhaps you mean 'homicide'.

Indeed... we have no info on the victim's hardwiring. We just know there was a death.

CWSmith
08-12-2017, 08:01 PM
Indeed... we have no info on the victim's hardwiring. We just know there was a death.

I believe you will find there has been three. That driver really did a number on the bystanders and counter-protestors.

David G
08-12-2017, 08:13 PM
This is today's Republican party.

David G
08-12-2017, 08:19 PM
This is today's Republican party.


https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/20841812_335308530239383_4397272055960055533_n.jpg ?oh=0ebefddd29cd82181ef1f45534a07f21&oe=59F121BA

Arizona Bay
08-12-2017, 08:54 PM
Twit


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/874276197357596672/kUuht00m_normal.jpgDonald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)

Condolences to the family of the young woman killed today, and best regards to all of those injured, in Charlottesville, Virginia. So sad!
4:25 PM - Aug 12, 2017 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/896512981319790592)




(https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=896512981319790592)



Follow (https://twitter.com/PreetBharara)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/837014180146339840/SC1ANszZ_normal.jpgPreet Bharara
✔@PreetBharara (https://twitter.com/PreetBharara)

POTUS offers empathy the likes of which the world has never seen. #bestregards (https://twitter.com/hashtag/bestregards?src=hash) https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/896512981319790592 … (https://t.co/80uqnZemTA)
4:41 PM - Aug 12, 2017 (https://twitter.com/PreetBharara/status/896516905988739074)




(https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=896516905988739074)

TomF
08-12-2017, 09:10 PM
Insert something bannable here.

David G
08-12-2017, 09:25 PM
The story continues to evolve --

http://reverepress.com/news/driver-charlottesville-car-attack-just-identified/

David G
08-12-2017, 09:33 PM
Should we include an automobile... for ramming those who disagree with you?

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/20728112_1966877423323226_4428721068031289276_n.pn g?oh=26382c4ebd023544c41d9d230261230c&oe=5A385F15

Arizona Bay
08-12-2017, 09:33 PM
Does he have the Fashy Hair cut?


From Ohio

Made it through 4 months of military service.

Failson

skuthorp
08-12-2017, 09:56 PM
Well, how to stuff up your own and a few hundred other peoples lives.

LeeG
08-12-2017, 09:59 PM
" Charlottesville, so sad!"

White House, so sad!

sandtown
08-12-2017, 10:50 PM
You folks don't get it - violence porn (specifically vid of cars running down protesters) is a staple
of Reich wing entertainment. They watch it for fun.
No one should be surprised by this . . sad to say.

LeeG
08-12-2017, 10:53 PM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/david-duke-charlottesville-rally-trump-promises

During a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va. on Saturday, former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke said the event is in line with President Trump’s “promises.”

“This represents a turning point for the people of this country. We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said. “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”

ishmael
08-13-2017, 05:31 AM
I've read through the thread, but not all the links. Is the size of the demonstration/counter-demonstration mentioned? Does anyone have a sense of how big the whacko right wing is in the country?

skuthorp
08-13-2017, 05:46 AM
#40………...
"the event is in line with President Trump’s “promises.”"

Yes………. Seems that the fact of Pres. Don. has given them permission. I bet they won't relinquish it easily, or peacefully if Charlottesville is any indication.

Chris Coose
08-13-2017, 06:07 AM
No big deal. We'll get over it like we did Newtown.

Making America Great Again.

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 06:10 AM
This belongs to Dolt 45. He lifted the rock and encouraged them.

In the middle of Emancipation Park in Charlottesville on Saturday, two young women, one white and one black, took each other's hands and held them tightly, and with their other hands they gripped the steel barrier in front of them.
A few feet away, a young white man with a buzzed haircut and sunglasses leaned towards them over a facing barrier. "You'll be on the first f*****g boat home," he screamed at the black woman, before turning to the white woman. "And as for you, you're going straight to hell," he said. Then he gave a Nazi salute.
For the third time in a few months, white nationalists had descended on the small, liberal city of Charlottesville in the old Confederate capital of Virginia, to protest against the planned removal of a statue of Confederate general Robert E Lee.
This time they came under the banner of the so-called "alt-right", for a rally they called "Unite the Right". They were a motley crew of militia, racists, and neo-Nazis, and some who said they simply wanted to defend their Southern history.
They gathered early in the morning at Emancipation Park - formerly Lee Park - where the statue sits, some dressed in full tactical gear and openly carrying rifles. Others wore black shirts, helmets, and boots.
In a column they surged into the park, using sticks and their fists to shove aside anti-fascist counter-protesters. Then they blocked off the entrance with shields. Inside, David Duke, the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, grinned and waved as the crowd, almost entirely white and male, cheered him on, chanting his name and putting their arms up in Nazi salutes.
They had reason to be pleased. They were in the middle of the largest gathering of white nationalists in America for decades.

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40914748

PeterSibley
08-13-2017, 06:15 AM
Try this in Germany. https://i.yomyomf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/12112032/DHCruy3UAAE1bei-1024x768.jpg

Chris Coose
08-13-2017, 06:29 AM
This is kinda cute. From the BBC story:


The three women from the Revolutionary Conservative who flew into the city preach what they call "racial realism", which they say is not racism.
"It's natural for people to want to be with their own kind, and to look to their own interests," said RS McCoy, another member of staff from the paper, who flew in from California.

Are they listening to the steamy horror coming out of their boyfriends?

skuthorp
08-13-2017, 06:32 AM
Brand new flags, look at the fold marks. Don really is dragging them out from under their rocks.
Any stars and stripes in that procession?

PeterSibley
08-13-2017, 06:37 AM
https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20799810_1381781188544238_1002426328219161130_n.jp g?oh=d280f61f4d1879dbd96d0bf88d67839b&oe=5A214999

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 06:45 AM
Brand new flags, look at the fold marks. Don really is dragging them out from under their rocks.
Any stars and stripes in that procession?

None on the BeeB reports. However a Google search of images found two.

Love the irony of the caption put to this image.

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/DF8F/production/_97313275_shields.jpg
Speakers from the white nationalist movement claim its members are being misrepresented

McMike
08-13-2017, 06:52 AM
I've read through the thread, but not all the links. Is the size of the demonstration/counter-demonstration mentioned? Does anyone have a sense of how big the whacko right wing is in the country?

How many people voted for Trump?

Chris Coose
08-13-2017, 06:58 AM
I'm thinking if SCROTUS got around to calling these ****birds, terrorists the FBI and other Federal law enforcement would have to get involved in identifying and hunting down these SCROTUS supporters. All of them.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-13-2017, 06:58 AM
I noticed the new flag for the first time yesterday. I have no idea what is supposed to stand for.

I'm sure most people on this forum, don't know much about Charlottesville. The town you've seen in the news is not normal the town is beautiful, wealthy, and progressive. 99% of the nazis are not from the area.

Glen Longino
08-13-2017, 06:59 AM
https://youtu.be/ei2nUeE3cfM

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-13-2017, 07:09 AM
Trump's response was truly deplorable!

He understands that he was elected on a platform of hate and fear and that remains the base of his support!
He exploits this whether it's North Korea or racial/ethnic hate.

ishmael
08-13-2017, 07:40 AM
Glen,

Following someone on social media hardly means an endorsement of their views. Would you like to be known by some of the company here on the WBF?;)

I don't do the big social media platforms, though I suppose in its way this forum, and others like it, is a precursor of the phenomenon.

TomF
08-13-2017, 07:44 AM
Jack, it's a pretty damned strong signal for a senior Presidential advisor to have "opinion leaders" showing up as being "followed" on a senior advisor's publicly available social media feed. Particularly when one puts some of the advisor's own positions up beside those advocated by those "opinion leaders."

Deniability, sure. But plausible? Nah. That "plausibility" thing is the "fake news" part.

ishmael
08-13-2017, 07:50 AM
Tom,

As I said, I don't follow it, but if you say so...

John Smith
08-13-2017, 07:51 AM
I've read through the thread, but not all the links. Is the size of the demonstration/counter-demonstration mentioned? Does anyone have a sense of how big the whacko right wing is in the country?

I think so. This IS Trump's base; the 34% he can't lose.

I still think the idiots are the ones who organized the opposition protest. Without that opposition, this event would have had no violence, not deaths or injuries AND VERY LITTLE PRESS COVERAGE, and is the press coverage these people wanted.

This 34% is what Trump was smart enough to tap into. It's enough to win some primaries; a threat to incumbent Republicans. These are the ones he would not lose if he shot someone.

We do have some history we ought to be able to learn from. The Tuskegee Air Force proved racists wrong. Turned out we have had some exceptional quarterbacks who were/are black. we've seen the myths destroyed.

Trump played into the fear of Christian racists as he's telling everyone we should fear all Muslims.

MY disappointment is with the reaction. Let them have their damn march. The protesters provided the conflict, which provided the violence, which provided the news coverage. A simple, peaceful, non protested event would have been a tiny blip on the news. They wanted publicity, and their enemies gave it to them.

Glen Longino
08-13-2017, 07:54 AM
Glen,

Following someone on social media hardly means an endorsement of their views. Would you like to be known by some of the company here on the WBF?;)

I don't do the big social media platforms, though I suppose in its way this forum, and others like it, is a precursor of the phenomenon.

I've read quite a lot about Miller, Jack.
My post was simply a sampler of Miller and what a creep he is.
He's dead of eye and dangerous of mind.

Chris Smith porter maine
08-13-2017, 08:17 AM
Trump came up small yet again.

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 08:30 AM
I think so. This IS Trump's base; the 34% he can't lose.

I still think the idiots are the ones who organized the opposition protest. Without that opposition, this event would have had no violence, not deaths or injuries AND VERY LITTLE PRESS COVERAGE, and is the press coverage these people wanted.

. . .

MY disappointment is with the reaction. Let them have their damn march. The protesters provided the conflict, which provided the violence, which provided the news coverage. A simple, peaceful, non protested event would have been a tiny blip on the news. They wanted publicity, and their enemies gave it to them.

Soooo . . . we just roll over and take it?

These violent, racist, anti-Constitutional, bigoted Morons just showed the 66% what a great steaming load of human garbage they are.

That is worth a LOT.

mdh
08-13-2017, 08:42 AM
I think so. This IS Trump's base; the 34% he can't lose.

I still think the idiots are the ones who organized the opposition protest. Without that opposition, this event would have had no violence, not deaths or injuries AND VERY LITTLE PRESS COVERAGE, and is the press coverage these people wanted.

This 34% is what Trump was smart enough to tap into. It's enough to win some primaries; a threat to incumbent Republicans. These are the ones he would not lose if he shot someone.

We do have some history we ought to be able to learn from. The Tuskegee Air Force proved racists wrong. Turned out we have had some exceptional quarterbacks who were/are black. we've seen the myths destroyed.

Trump played into the fear of Christian racists as he's telling everyone we should fear all Muslims.

MY disappointment is with the reaction. Let them have their damn march. The protesters provided the conflict, which provided the violence, which provided the news coverage. A simple, peaceful, non protested event would have been a tiny blip on the news. They wanted publicity, and their enemies gave it to them.

For a long time, that's been the idea: let them have their show, and nobody shows up to make a fuss, just barely make the news. One of the first reports i heard, Sat. AM, a reporter had been handed a business card by one of the protesters: Protester for hire. There were bad guy's on both sides, wanting chaos, and news coverage.

As for 34%, the nazis amassed an estimated 500-550 from across the nation: the antis, about 2000. Both sides were violent: both sides were wrong, my reps weren't there.

Arizona Bay
08-13-2017, 08:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzEBp9EV2pg

C. Ross
08-13-2017, 08:46 AM
Counsel for the defense of Nazis. Ouch. Wouldn't have thought it of you.

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 09:32 AM
I think so. This IS Trump's base; the 34% he can't lose.

I still think the idiots are the ones who organized the opposition protest. Without that opposition, this event would have had no violence, not deaths or injuries AND VERY LITTLE PRESS COVERAGE, and is the press coverage these people wanted.


MY disappointment is with the reaction. Let them have their damn march. The protesters provided the conflict, which provided the violence, which provided the news coverage. A simple, peaceful, non protested event would have been a tiny blip on the news. They wanted publicity, and their enemies gave it to them.
You reckon that these guys would have just packed up and gone home without a fight if they were unopposed?


Love the irony of the caption put to this image.

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/DF8F/production/_97313275_shields.jpg
Speakers from the white nationalist movement claim its members are being misrepresented

Gerarddm
08-13-2017, 09:45 AM
NO. Just letting them march unopposed sends a message of tacit acceptance. An effective photo opp though would be to line the march route and silently turn their backs as they march by. Or do a Cersei walk and just chant shame - shame - shame at them all along the route.

CWSmith
08-13-2017, 09:51 AM
NO. Just letting them march unopposed sends a message of tacit acceptance. An effective photo opp though would be to line the march route and silently turn their backs as they march by. Or do a Cersei walk and just chant shame - shame - shame at them all along the route.

Or give them an empty street.

Letting them march does not show acceptance - it shows respect for the rule of law. That assumes they have a legal permit.

Chris Coose
08-13-2017, 10:06 AM
Wouldn't have thought it of you.
How come?

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 11:37 AM
I've read through the thread, but not all the links. Is the size of the demonstration/counter-demonstration mentioned? Does anyone have a sense of how big the whacko right wing is in the country?

It reaches all the way up into Bangor, Maine...

LeeG
08-13-2017, 12:03 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40915569

The Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights organisation, says that "Trump's run for office electrified the radical right, which saw in him a champion of the idea that America is fundamentally a white man's country."
...
How did President Trump react?
Mr Trump said he condemned "in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides".
"The hate and the division must stop right now," he told reporters, speaking in New Jersey, where he is on a working holiday. "We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation."
But his comments did not explicitly condemn the white extremist groups involved in the rally.

Osborne Russell
08-13-2017, 12:06 PM
Take your both sides and jam it.

Troops land in Normandy, plenty of violence on both sides.

True but possibly the stupidest possible observation.

Because the implication is that this moronic truth proves the moral equivalence of the two sides.

Say that out loud if you have the guts which you don't which is why you say this both sides dog S.

LeeG
08-13-2017, 12:14 PM
https://thinkprogress.org/white-house-adviser-says-people-should-stop-criticizing-white-supremacists-so-much-ddd587767d60/

No one is quite sure what Sebastian Gorka, officially a deputy assistant to President Trump, actually does at the White House. This hasn’t stopped him, however, from being a near constant presence in the media.

Wednesday, Gorka appeared on Breitbart News Daily, the radio show of his former employer. Gorka responded to criticism stemming from a previous media appearance on MSNBC where he said “[t]here’s no such thing as a lone wolf” attack. The concept, according to Gorka, was “invented by the last administration to make Americans stupid.”

TomF
08-13-2017, 12:17 PM
Where is Sky Blue, or Noyes? Where are the Trump apologists who claimed that there is no actual validity to the observations that the alt.right actually includes Nazis for Trump. Actually includes KKK for Trump. Etc.

Anyone want to make some argument that those flags in the marches and etc weren't the stars and bars, weren't Nazi swastika flags? And that they were not really meant literally by those marchers, but ironically and with winks and smiley faces? Maybe the car was meant ironically too, as a comment on ISIS extremism?

This "let's use the incident to reveal loyalty" thing doesn't only work for Trump winnowing his definitions of wheat and chaff. The rest of us get to see when folks' masks drop too.

amish rob
08-13-2017, 12:18 PM
I seriously cannot believe people carry nazi flags here.

That is insane.

The confederate battle flag I can sort of understand, because while it is an enemy flag (an enemy of the union of the USA), it is also a domestic flag, eh? I don't understand why a person would rally behind it, but I can understand the pockets of left over memory and affection for the flag, eh? Grandpa fought under it, and all that jazz...

But this nazi business? Carrying the flag of an army that tried to destroy this nation, and every other one on the planet, while proclaiming to love and defend this nation is absurd. Absurd.
Who in this country has strong emotional family ties to the nazi flag? To WAVING the nazi flag?

Wow.

Peace,
Robert

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 12:19 PM
From the link in #70

Anthony Zurcher, BBC North America reporter
Clues for how the president would react to such a situation were scattered across his presidential campaign.
In February 2016, Mr Trump initially declined to disavow support from the Klu Klux Klan and David Duke, the former Klan leader who became a Louisiana Republican politician.
"Any candidate who cannot immediately condemn a hate group like the KKK does not represent the Republican Party, and will not unite it," Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, the first black Republican elected from a Southern state since 1881, said.
After a week, Mr Trump gave a firm statement denouncing the KKK, but his initial hesitance would be an issue for the remainder of his presidential race.
If, as Mr Trump's critics suggest, his statements following the Charlottesville incident were yet another "dog whistle" to white supremacists, there's evidence that the message was clearly heard.

"Trump comments were good," one poster on the neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer wrote (https://twitter.com/soledadobrien/status/896492127911149568). "He didn't attack us. He just said the nation should come together."

LeeG
08-13-2017, 12:20 PM
Take your both sides and jam it.

Troops land in Normandy, plenty of violence on both sides.

True but possibly the stupidest possible observation.

Because the implication is that this moronic truth implies the moral equivalence of the two sides.

Say that out loud if you have the guts which you don't which is why you say this both sides dog S.

I can see Trump waffling this one just for the attention

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 12:25 PM
I seriously cannot believe people carry nazi flags here.

That is insane.

The confederate battle flag I can sort of understand, because while it is an enemy flag (an enemy of the union of the USA), it is also a domestic flag, eh? I don't understand why a person would rally behind it, but I can understand the pockets of left over memory and affection for the flag, eh? Grandpa fought under it, and all that jazz...

But this nazi business? Carrying the flag of an army that tried to destroy this nation, and every other one on the planet, while proclaiming to love and defend this nation is absurd. Absurd.
Who in this country has strong emotional family ties to the nazi flag? To WAVING the nazi flag?

Wow.

Peace,
Robert

No. It is not.

It is the flag of rich, old white men who committed mass treason in the name of racism.

Please do not force me to mount a diatribe to convince you of this.



We should have put an end to this in '65.



That's 1865.

Bobcat
08-13-2017, 12:29 PM
I can see Trump waffling this one just for the attention

Trump is a moral coward. He's well aware of what David Duke said to him:

I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/896420822780444672 … (https://t.co/Rkfs7O2Ykr)

amish rob
08-13-2017, 12:37 PM
No. It is not.

It is the flag of rich, old white men who committed mass treason in the name of racism.

Please do not force me to mount a diatribe to convince you of this.



That's 1865.

Oz,
My mom is from Kentucky, yo. Southern Kentucky, eh. They've taken me to see the Jefferson Davis Memorial. My mom's family lives on land continuously deeded since well before '65.

I KNOW these people. They are MY people, too, just because I live out here. My blood. Shoot, I got great great grandma's bible with all the family history in it.

I DO NOT in any way condone the confederacy. But, there is a difference between a flag great great grandad may have carried, and a flag nobody's grandparent would have carried.

The confederate flags need to stop, too, but the Nazi flag is plain absurd.

And all these hate filled white supremacist people got to go somewhere else with all that.

Peace,
Robert

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 12:45 PM
I seriously cannot believe people carry nazi flags here.

That is insane.

The confederate battle flag I can sort of understand, because while it is an enemy flag (an enemy of the union of the USA), it is also a domestic flag, eh? I don't understand why a person would rally behind it, but I can understand the pockets of left over memory and affection for the flag, eh? Grandpa fought under it, and all that jazz...

But this nazi business? Carrying the flag of an army that tried to destroy this nation, and every other one on the planet, while proclaiming to love and defend this nation is absurd. Absurd.
Who in this country has strong emotional family ties to the nazi flag? To WAVING the nazi flag?

Wow.

Peace,
Robert

We have neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers in the UK and Europe, and the war was fought over our land, we had civilian relatives killed yet we still have Nazi sympathisers on our streets.
Your country folk did not experience any of that until you hit the beaches of Normandy, and even then it was only some of your young men.
1.5 million US service men were in the UK preparing for the Normandy landings out of a total US population of 130 million.
As a nation you know nothing, so do not be surprised by the ignorance and bigotry on show in Charlottesville.

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 01:01 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/20841812_335308530239383_4397272055960055533_n.jpg ?oh=0ebefddd29cd82181ef1f45534a07f21&oe=59F121BA


just for historical accuracy... it was the Left who were the Nazi (National Socialist German Workers) party... and it was Republicans who fought against confederates and for reconstruction... but I'm totally sure that truth or historical accuracy makes no difference to meme makers.

TomF
08-13-2017, 01:04 PM
So the Nazis waving swastika flags this weekend at the Unite the Right rallies were poorly educated on their symbols?

Or perhaps did the Right extremists choose Right extremist symbols after all, and you can put that canard away, finally?

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 01:08 PM
So the Nazis waving swastika flags this weekend at the Unite the Right rallies were poorly educated on their symbols?


do you think they are well educated, highly intelligent individuals with an excellent grasp of world history and events?

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 01:09 PM
just for historical accuracy... it was the Left who were the Nazi (National Socialist German Workers) party... and it was Republicans who fought against confederates and for reconstruction... but I'm totally sure that truth or historical accuracy makes no difference.

I'm totally sure that truth or historical accuracy makes no difference, to YOU.

Tom Wilkinson
08-13-2017, 01:09 PM
Trump needs to loudly denounce this and David Duke's comments specifically. If he let's it slide without comment it's tacit approval.

Care to guess which way he falls??

G.Sherman
08-13-2017, 01:11 PM
The mere possession of any Nazi regalia should be outlawed. Our WWII dead are rolling in their graves. These people should be identified and their names and addresses published. We'll see how proud they are outside the security of the rabble.

Tom Wilkinson
08-13-2017, 01:11 PM
just for historical accuracy... it was the Left who were the Nazi (National Socialist German Workers) party... and it was Republicans who fought against confederates and for reconstruction... but I'm totally sure that truth or historical accuracy makes no difference to meme makers.

Are you ready to stand up against this crap Daniel? Will you denounce this alt-right and Nazi hatred?? Or are you gonna make ridiculous platitudes about which side people were on then? Which side are you on now??

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 01:11 PM
I'm totally sure that truth or historical accuracy makes no difference, to YOU.

who?

Osborne Russell
08-13-2017, 01:14 PM
In 2009, the United States Department of Homeland Security under the direction of then Secretary Janet Napolitano released a report titled “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment.”

The report warned White supremacist, right wing militias and sovereign citizen groups were gaining strength, becoming more dissatisfied, and that could quite possibly lead to violent incidents. The election of the nation’s first Black president, the country’s significant economic downturn and fears of more stringent gun laws were largely cited as reasons for concern. The report specifically mentioned terrorism, “White supremacists and violent anti-government groups,” and the response from Republican Party leaders was swift and vocal. They immediately objected to the use of the word “terrorism.”

Rep. John Boehner criticized Secy. Napolitano saying the word “terrorist” should not be used “to describe American citizens who disagree with the direction Washington Democrats are taking our nation.”

http://atlantadailyworld.com/2015/01/11/americas-domestic-terrorists/

But you have to obstruct, so you have to falsely equate, and dog-whistle up a rabble of extremists, and so a person has been murdered with a car.

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 01:14 PM
The mere possession of any Nazi regalia should be outlawed. Our WWII dead are rolling in their graves. These people should be identified and their names and addresses published. We'll see how proud they are outside the security of the rabble.


Very true! We in America should outlaw anything that would make our war dead, Civil War or WWII roll in their graves.

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 01:14 PM
Oz,
My mom is from Kentucky, yo. Southern Kentucky, eh. They've taken me to see the Jefferson Davis Memorial. My mom's family lives on land continuously deeded since well before '65.

I KNOW these people. They are MY people, too, just because I live out here. My blood. Shoot, I got great great grandma's bible with all the family history in it.

I DO NOT in any way condone the confederacy. But, there is a difference between a flag great great grandad may have carried, and a flag nobody's grandparent would have carried.

The confederate flags need to stop, too, but the Nazi flag is plain absurd.

And all these hate filled white supremacist people got to go somewhere else with all that.

Peace,
Robert

My great granddad DEFINITELY fought under that flag.

I don't give a rippin' ratfreak if Jesus God Almighty fought under that flag.

That is the flag that represents human bondage justified by racism through Old Testament pseudo-religion.

THAT IS ALL.

We should have crushed that cancer in 1865.

Instead, we turned our backs on the Constitution and the Constitutional Rights of 10,000,000 new CITIZENS, and left them to be tortured, robbed, raped and/or killed by the self-same racist traitors we 'liberated' them from.

Anybody who waves that flag is a Moron, a Racist, and Anti-Government Traitor or an ignorant, hoodwinked dupe.

TomF
08-13-2017, 01:16 PM
do you think they are well educated, highly intelligent individuals with an excellent grasp of world history and events?
I think that it is with good reason that the "alt.right" has taken up the Nazi salutes and symbols. As have their predecessor extremist Right wing groups wherever they've arisen since Hitler's day. They remember that the Nazis and their allied Fascists in Spain and Italy actually fought against communists in domestic politics. That the Nazis party's name did not mean, even at the time, what you truly wish it did. They were always extremists of the Right, and still are.

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 01:16 PM
Very true! We in America should outlaw anything that would make our war dead, Civil War or WWII roll in their graves.

OK.

How is it that 150 years after the fact that you think that the men who fought under that flag are OUR dead?

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 01:21 PM
My great granddad DEFINITELY fought under that flag.

I don't give a rippin' ratfreak if Jesus God Almighty fought under that flag.

That is the flag that represents human bondage justified by racism through Old Testament pseudo-religion.

THAT IS ALL.

We should have crushed that cancer in 1865.

Instead, we turned our backs on the Constitution and the Constitutional Rights of 10,000,000 new CITIZENS, and left them to be tortured, robbed, raped and/or killed by the self-same racist traitors we 'liberated' them from.

Anybody who waves that flag is a Moron, a Racist, and Anti-Government Traitor or an ignorant, hoodwinked dupe.


turned our backs on the constitution and new citizens?

more like struggled and strove, in a time of slow sail or steam ship travel, limited telegraph communication and only printed newspapers with hand set type, struggled for decades, got dozens of African Americans elected to congress, but were defeated by the time, fatigue, the surviving southerners aided by Democrat/ immigrant strongholds/ urban centers in the north...

and what's this "WE" anyway? were you there?

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 01:21 PM
OK.

How is it that 150 years after the fact that you think that the men who fought under that flag are OUR dead?

That Flag? they are not. Only Union soldiers are "Our Dead"... and we all know that a great deal of the Democrat social sickness propagated on our instutions, even marriage, would make Our Dead roll in their graves.

Osborne Russell
08-13-2017, 01:24 PM
just for historical accuracy... it was the Left who were the Nazi (National Socialist German Workers) party... and it was Republicans who fought against confederates and for reconstruction... but I'm totally sure that truth or historical accuracy makes no difference to meme makers.

Stalin was a conservative because he fought the Nazis.

amish rob
08-13-2017, 01:24 PM
We have neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers in the UK and Europe, and the war was fought over our land, we had civilian relatives killed yet we still have Nazi sympathisers on our streets.
Your country folk did not experience any of that until you hit the beaches of Normandy, and even then it was only some of your young men.
1.5 million US service men were in the UK preparing for the Normandy landings out of a total US population of 130 million.
As a nation you know nothing, so do not be surprised by the ignorance and bigotry on show in Charlottesville.

Yes, Nick, in Europe a confederate flag would be as absurd as the Nazi flag here. Some Europeans may have ancestors who carried a Nazi flag, though, and it would stand to reason they may sympathize. At least with their relatives, eh?

Same same as the confederate flag wavers here.
Now, tell me my country didn't experience the confederate flag. That's one thing most other countries know nil about.

It's all wrong. Mostly because these people aren't sympathizers or deniers, they are practitioners.


Peace,
Robert

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 01:26 PM
Stalin was a conservative because he fought the Nazis.

you've never seen 2 liberals get into an argument about how to force other people to live?

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 01:27 PM
Yes, Nick, in Europe a confederate flag would be as absurd as the Nazi flag here. Some Europeans may have ancestors who carried a Nazi flag, though, and it would stand to reason they may sympathize. At least with their relatives, eh?

Same same as the confederate flag wavers here.
Now, tell me my country didn't experience the confederate flag. That's one thing most other countries know nil about.

It's all wrong. Mostly because these people aren't sympathizers or deniers, they are practitioners.


Peace,
Robert

In Germany the NAZI party was outlawed... why didn't we out law the Democratic party after the Civil War?... big mistake.

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 01:30 PM
turned our backs on the constitution and new citizens?

Yup.

It's called the Black Holocaust. You should read up on it.

The Nazi Holocaust ended when the war ended.

The Black Holocaust STARTED when the war ended.




more like struggled and strove, in a time of slow sail or steam ship travel, limited telegraph communication and only printed newspapers with hand set type, struggled for decades, got dozens of African Americans elected to congress, but were defeated by the time, fatigue, the surviving southerners aided by Democrat/ immigrant strongholds/ urban centers in the north...

Sorry, dude, but I lost my Noyes Decoder Ring.

You should look into The Great Compromise, and the election of 1876.



and what's this "WE" anyway? were you there?

It means I am an American.

TomF
08-13-2017, 01:31 PM
Neo-nazis ever since Hitler's fall have been the staple of the extreme Right. For about 70 years, Daniel.

BTW, how do you feel about the events in Charlottesville? Any clear statement you want to make? Maybe an Ivanka tweet you want to support, even before her father does?

isla
08-13-2017, 01:31 PM
just for historical accuracy... it was the Left who were the Nazi (National Socialist German Workers) party... and it was Republicans who fought against confederates and for reconstruction... but I'm totally sure that truth or historical accuracy makes no difference to meme makers.

Just for historical accuracy... just because the party was called the National Socialist German Workers party didn't make them lefties.

National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪzəm, ˈnæ-/[1]), is the ideology and set of practices associated with the 20th-century German Nazi Party, Nazi Germany, and other far-right groups. Sometimes characterised as a form of fascism that incorporates scientific racism and antisemitism, Nazism's development was influenced by German nationalism (especially Pan-Germanism), the Völkisch movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary groups that emerged during the Weimar Republic after Germany's defeat in First World War.

The Nazi Party's precursor, the Pan-German nationalist and antisemitic German Workers' Party, was founded on 5 January 1919. By the early 1920s, Adolf Hitler assumed control of the organization and renamed it the National Socialist German Workers' Party to broaden its appeal.

National Socialism attempted to reconcile conservative, nationalist ideology with a socially radical doctrine. In so doing, it became a profoundly revolutionary movement—albeit a largely negative one. Rejecting rationalism, liberalism, democracy, the rule of law, human rights, and all movements of international cooperation and peace, it stressed instinct, the subordination of the individual to the state, and the necessity of blind and unswerving obedience to leaders appointed from above.

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 01:34 PM
you've never seen 2 liberals get into an argument about how to force other people to live?

Nope, only republicans are able to do that.

Witness health care...

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 01:35 PM
That Flag? they are not. Only Union soldiers are "Our Dead"...

Then why are you backing the use of that flag?




and we all know that a great deal of the Democrat social sickness propagated on our instutions, even marriage, would make Our Dead roll in their graves.

If this is even remotely true, why are the people who are against Democrats waving that flag?



If you had the ability to give your position even the most cursory inspection, you would be horrified and embarrassed . . . I hope.

That's enough for you, today.

Back on ignore.

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 01:37 PM
Just for historical accuracy... just because the party was called the National Socialist German Workers party didn't make them lefties.

National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪzəm, ˈnæ-/[1]), is the ideology and set of practices associated with the 20th-century German Nazi Party, Nazi Germany, and other far-right groups. Sometimes characterised as a form of fascism that incorporates scientific racism and antisemitism, Nazism's development was influenced by German nationalism (especially Pan-Germanism), the Völkisch movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary groups that emerged during the Weimar Republic after Germany's defeat in First World War.

The Nazi Party's precursor, the Pan-German nationalist and antisemitic German Workers' Party, was founded on 5 January 1919. By the early 1920s, Adolf Hitler assumed control of the organization and renamed it the National Socialist German Workers' Party to broaden its appeal.

National Socialism attempted to reconcile conservative, nationalist ideology with a socially radical doctrine. In so doing, it became a profoundly revolutionary movement—albeit a largely negative one. Rejecting rationalism, liberalism, democracy, the rule of law, human rights, and all movements of international cooperation and peace, it stressed instinct, the subordination of the individual to the state, and the necessity of blind and unswerving obedience to leaders appointed from above.

Scientific racism? That sounds exactly like the Old South, only they used he Bible, not science. . . . Which makes it a lot like David Duke.

Osborne Russell
08-13-2017, 01:50 PM
you've never seen 2 liberals get into an argument about how to force other people to live?

Stalin was the enemy of America, and a liberal. Roosevelt also a liberal, therefore also the enemy of America, but he was fighting the Nazis, so he was a conservative, as a matter of historical accuracy.

birlinn
08-13-2017, 01:52 PM
Stalin a liberal??????
And I am a Martian.

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 01:56 PM
Stalin a liberal??????
And I am a Martian.

I did not think that Osborne's attempt at satire would come across.
I'll bet that there is a whoooshing noise if Daniel reads it.

birlinn
08-13-2017, 02:03 PM
Sorry, irony detector not working.
Post below wasted too!

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 02:09 PM
Looks like a terrorist attack to me.

Of all the people and organizations TRMP has attacked, he's never gone after the Domestic Nazi groups or Putin.

so true more Terrorism. thankfully Trump is not afraid of calling out terrorism and condemning terrorists in all their forms!

Can you imagine Obama's response to this terrorist attack tragedy?
"NAZI-ism is a ideology of peace, we can not let the actions of a few bad apples divide us, we must reach out to our NAZI neighbors and show them that we support them and stand with them... blah blah blahhh"
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.W7B8H9FFGoTSUeNhdF2U_wHgFP&pid=15.1&P=0&w=250&h=176

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 02:12 PM
What planet is this man on?

'Unite the Right' organizer, Jason Kessler, blames Charlottesville government officials for violence By Francisca Ortega (http://www.chron.com/author/francisca-ortega/), Chron.com / Houston Chronicle
Updated 12:16 pm, Sunday, August 13, 2017
A 'Unite the Right' organizer has issued a statement blaming Charlottesville government officials for violence.
Organizer Jason Kessler, along with others behind the rally, including Richard Spencer, plan to hold a press conference this afternoon.
"The blame for today's violence is primarily the result of the Charlottesville government officials and the law enforcement officers which failed to maintain law and order by protecting the First Amendment rights of the participants of the 'Unite the Right' rally," Kessler told NBC 29 in Charlottesville, Va.
from http://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/Unite-the-Right-organizer-Jason-Kessler-blames-11815954.php#photo-13719747

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/64/25/43/13719747/3/1024x1024.jpg

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 02:23 PM
so true more Terrorism. thankfully Trump is not afraid of calling out terrorism and condemning terrorists in all their forms!

Can you imagine Obama's response to this terrorist attack tragedy?
""

Not once did your boy Trump use the word "Terrorism"
(However his rhetoric will soon change with pressure from his daughter, the princess who needs to sell shoes)

As far as What Obama may or may not have said, those with a marginal education should probably refrain from conjecture. From past performance we can be certain it would have been an emotional statement, with the likelyhood that he would have been stifling tears for his country.

It will be interesting to learn why government and police were not ready to control this riot. Any fool could have predicted what would happen. Like a hurricane poised to flood New Orleans...

Tom Wilkinson
08-13-2017, 02:25 PM
so true more Terrorism. thankfully Trump is not afraid of calling out terrorism and condemning terrorists in all their forms!

Can you imagine Obama's response to this terrorist attack tragedy?
"NAZI-ism is a ideology of peace, we can not let the actions of a few bad apples divide us, we must reach out to our NAZI neighbors and show them that we support them and stand with them... blah blah blahhh"
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.W7B8H9FFGoTSUeNhdF2U_wHgFP&pid=15.1&P=0&w=250&h=176



You need to seek professional help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 02:31 PM
It will be interesting to learn why government and police were not ready to control this riot. Any fool could have predicted what would happen. Like a hurricane poised to flood New Orleans...

From the link in #111

The decision to hold the rally at Emancipation Park, formerly known as Lee Park, had been contested by law enforcement and officials in the days leading up to the event. Authorities negotiated with Kessler to have the demonstration at McIntire Park. Emancipation Park was not suited to the size of the crowd expected and they anticipated it would be difficult to keep protesters and counterprotesters separated, according to NBC 29 (http://www.nbc29.com/story/36079665/charlottesville-press-conference-8-7-2017).
Kessler and his group argued they should have the right to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate Army General Robert E. Lee in front of the statue. A judge eventually ruled in the group's favor.



Mind you, if it had been in the UK I doubt whether a judge would have been involved, and if any marchers turned up in helmets with clubs and or riot shields, they would have been corralled and arrested so fast that their feet would not have touched the ground.

Gerarddm
08-13-2017, 02:33 PM
I see by Tom's post that Mr. Noyes is up to his usual asinine Ignored self. I find it difficult to grok the mindset of people like him. It is just so utterly foreign to me. I think they are just scared, have no cogent coping mechanism, and to compensate make bovine gaping primate noises with a keyboard.

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 02:38 PM
I see by Tom's post that Mr. Noyes is up to his usual asinine Ignored self. I find it difficult to grok the mindset of people like him. It is just so utterly foreign to me. I think they are just scared, have no cogent coping mechanism, and to compensate make bovine gaping primate noises with a keyboard.

Right as usual... scared, shaking in my li'l booties.

still rockin' the celebration I see http://forum.woodenboat.com/image.php?u=27221&dateline=1289759914

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 02:38 PM
"Kessler and his group argued they should have the right to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate Army General Robert E. Lee in front of the statue. A judge eventually ruled in the group's favor."


That judge will be wanting some serious scrutiny.
This little "event" will be costing Charlottsville some real money before it is over.

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 02:39 PM
@ Gerarddm, which is why I don't read any of his expressed opinions either.

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 02:41 PM
"Kessler and his group argued they should have the right to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate Army General Robert E. Lee in front of the statue. A judge eventually ruled in the group's favor."


That judge will be wanting some serious scrutiny.
This little "event" will be costing Charlottsville some real money before it is over.

Accessory before the fact of murder?

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 02:42 PM
I see by Tom's post that Mr. Noyes is up to his usual asinine Ignored self. I find it difficult to grok the mindset of people like him. It is just so utterly foreign to me. I think they are just scared, have no cogent coping mechanism, and to compensate make bovine gaping primate noises with a keyboard.

A doctor would notice a snicker or laughter from the patient and interpret it as an attempt to deflect fear. A pretty common behavior.

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 02:48 PM
A doctor would notice a snicker or laughter from the patient and interpret it as an attempt to deflect fear. A pretty common behavior.

dont discourage Gerarddam... it's a wonder he's recieving any input from the out side world, what with his filter bubble as thick as it is.

LeeG
08-13-2017, 02:49 PM
I see by Tom's post that Mr. Noyes is up to his usual asinine Ignored self. I find it difficult to grok the mindset of people like him. It is just so utterly foreign to me. I think they are just scared, have no cogent coping mechanism, and to compensate make bovine gaping primate noises with a keyboard.

Too complicated. Poo flinging is fun for poo flingers.

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 02:55 PM
Too complicated. Poo flinging is fun for poo flingers.

OK if you say so, i'd not question the statments of experts/professionals in a give field, (learned that lesson on the GW thread.)

Chris Smith porter maine
08-13-2017, 03:17 PM
do you think they are well educated, highly intelligent individuals with an excellent grasp of world history and events?

Nope I think there Trump voters and that they make up a significant part of his base.

Garret
08-13-2017, 03:41 PM
As much as I disagree with Mr. Noyes' politics, I am shocked that he seems unwilling to condemn this violence. Maybe disappointed is a better word.

Acceptance like his & the president's will destroy our country - but I guess that's what they want to do.

David G
08-13-2017, 04:06 PM
As much as I disagree with Mr. Noyes' politics, I am shocked that he seems unwilling to condemn this violence. Maybe disappointed is a better word.

Acceptance like his & the president's will destroy our country - but I guess that's what they want to do.

I am not surprised, disappointed, nor shocked. He has made himself known here for years. His brand of KnowNothing-ism and blinkered partisanship shows that he has abandoned both reason & compassion in favor of the tribe. And it has been obvious here for a long time.

John Smith
08-13-2017, 04:17 PM
Soooo . . . we just roll over and take it?

These violent, racist, anti-Constitutional, bigoted Morons just showed the 66% what a great steaming load of human garbage they are.

That is worth a LOT.

I don't think I said that. If we view racism and bigotry as a fire, we ought to try to find ways to put it out, not throw fuel on it. One thought would be to get a few of the white supremists in a group and simply ask them some questions as to why they feel as they do.

We do have some history we can point to. Do they know anything about the Tuskegee air force? Do they recall when it was widely accepted that a black man could not play quarterback? Yelling at each other, throwing things at each other, and the like, serves no good purpose. We need to be smarter.

John Smith
08-13-2017, 04:20 PM
You reckon that these guys would have just packed up and gone home without a fight if they were unopposed?

I reckon that, sans the conflict, there would have been little press coverage. I think the publicity they got is what they wanted. I think removing the monument and protesting their rally simply encourages them and add fuel to the fire. We need a smarter strategy.

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 04:21 PM
As much as I disagree with Mr. Noyes' politics, I am shocked that he seems unwilling to condemn this violence. Maybe disappointed is a better word.

Acceptance like his & the president's will destroy our country - but I guess that's what they want to do.

I called these crazies "terrorists" said the terrorist attack was a "tragedy"...

John Smith
08-13-2017, 04:21 PM
Or give them an empty street.

Letting them march does not show acceptance - it shows respect for the rule of law. That assumes they have a legal permit.

Thank you. Instead they can now argue their freedom of speech is being infringed.

John Smith
08-13-2017, 04:23 PM
do you think they are well educated, highly intelligent individuals with an excellent grasp of world history and events?

I'd love to see some of them, in a sane forum, be asked about their concepts and why they hold them.

John Smith
08-13-2017, 04:25 PM
Very true! We in America should outlaw anything that would make our war dead, Civil War or WWII roll in their graves.

And the 1st Amendment?

John Smith
08-13-2017, 04:27 PM
Didn't we learn something in school about not agreeing with what he said, but defending his right to say it? Or did I dream that?

mmd
08-13-2017, 04:28 PM
I think that, give past performance, that they would refuse to answer and go on to say that if you had to ask the question, you are the opposition. Zealots don't need to explain, as their cause is obvious. That's why they are zealots.

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 04:28 PM
I called these crazies "terrorists" said the terrorist attack was a "tragedy"...

At least you have more sense than our president.

skuthorp
08-13-2017, 04:29 PM
Interesting comment reported from the Mooch this morning, 'Some in the White House may be afraid to tell the President the truth'. This re Charlottesville and domestic terrorism as far as I could gather but not the first time this has come up.

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 04:30 PM
And the 1st Amendment?

it's more about the sentiment than the technicalities, I was just "Hurumphing and Here-Hereing" along with Sherman.

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 04:34 PM
At least you have more sense than our president.

Boy, oh boy.

If THAT's not 'damned by faint praise', I don't know what is!

:D :D

David G
08-13-2017, 05:04 PM
State Atty. General opens investigation. Sessions sez: 'full support' for their effort.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/federal-civil-rights-investigations-opened-050911344.html

Chris Smith porter maine
08-13-2017, 05:19 PM
so true more Terrorism. thankfully Trump is not afraid of calling out terrorism and condemning terrorists in all their forms!

Can you imagine Obama's response to this terrorist attack tragedy?
"NAZI-ism is a ideology of peace, we can not let the actions of a few bad apples divide us, we must reach out to our NAZI neighbors and show them that we support them and stand with them... blah blah blahhh"
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.W7B8H9FFGoTSUeNhdF2U_wHgFP&pid=15.1&P=0&w=250&h=176

Dude put the crack pipe down go sail your boat, that might be the craziest thing I ever read in the bilge.

Chris Smith porter maine
08-13-2017, 05:22 PM
I called these crazies "terrorists" said the terrorist attack was a "tragedy"...

Trump didn't.

David G
08-13-2017, 05:32 PM
Heather Heyer - the woman who was rammed. Vaya Con Dios, amiga.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charlottesville-victim-identified-mother-says-180057129.html

https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/ti5mDzlhkgqwsqf_g3NyMQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3c9NjMwO3E9NzU7c209MQ--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-us/homerun/deadline.com/60816990c4e30086057b087f6dfa6250

Hallam
08-13-2017, 05:35 PM
It was commented on during the election that a Trump presidency would facilitate an emboldening of fascist movemenents. Here we are witnessing the POTUS refusing to denounce this obvious manifestation in the 'Unite The Right' rally in Virginia. Just how big this festering movement is allowed to grow because of this repulsive lack of leadership devoid of moral fortitude by Trump. USA will see in the following year or three...... Listen to the words of David Duke for his ability to misinform and manipulate the truth.......It's the Governments Fault.....they failed to keep the peace!
Facism is on the way, and their aim is to go to where they have been before, only this time they are armed and dangerous with an ally in the Whitehouse!

https://s19.postimg.org/5hpqhog9v/madison_square_nazi_rally_1939_4.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/dohq996cj/madison_square_nazi_rally_1939_1.jpg

Daniel Noyes
08-13-2017, 05:40 PM
Trump didn't.

Very True,
but we both would expect the president to wait until the attack is confirmed as "Terrorism" by the authorities... just as previous presidents, before labeling it as such, sure the Bilge is quick to jump to conclusions but rational people will wait until some of the facts are in before leaping to judgement.

amish rob
08-13-2017, 05:42 PM
Heather Heyer - the woman who was rammed. Vaya Con Dios, amiga.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charlottesville-victim-identified-mother-says-180057129.html

https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/ti5mDzlhkgqwsqf_g3NyMQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3c9NjMwO3E9NzU7c209MQ--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-us/homerun/deadline.com/60816990c4e30086057b087f6dfa6250
As if I didn't weep enough for us all.
What are we doing as a nation? What is going on?

Peace,
Robert

PeterSibley
08-13-2017, 05:44 PM
Very True,
but we both would expect the president to wait until the attack is confirmed as "Terrorism" by the authorities... just as previous presidents, before labeling it as such, sure the Bilge is quick to jump to conclusions but rational people will wait until some of the facts are in before leaping to judgement.

and do you really think that would be the case if the driver were a recent immigrant from Syria ?
Do you think a heart attack, a stroke or mental illness would be considered before it became ISLAMIC TERRORISM !!!!!!

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 05:46 PM
Very True,
but we both would expect the president to wait until the attack is confirmed as "Terrorism" by the authorities... just as previous presidents, before labeling it as such, sure the Bilge is quick to jump to conclusions but rational people will wait until some of the facts are in before leaping to judgement..



I called these crazies "terrorists" said the terrorist attack was a "tragedy"...

So you were jumping to conclusions?

Peerie Maa
08-13-2017, 05:49 PM
As if I didn't weep enough for us all.
What are we doing as a nation? What is going on?

Peace,
Robert

The bigots and deplorables believe that your POTUS is on their side.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHD61dKUwAAOOak.jpg:large

Hallam
08-13-2017, 05:52 PM
Very True,
but we both would expect the president to wait until the attack is confirmed as "Terrorism" by the authorities... just as previous presidents, before labeling it as such, sure the Bilge is quick to jump to conclusions but rational people will wait until some of the facts are in before leaping to judgement.

Yes we will watch as it plays out........in the courts......
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/james-alex-fields-charlottesville-driver-.html

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-13-2017, 05:58 PM
the bigots and deplorables believe that your potus is on their side.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/dhd61dkuwaaooak.jpg:large


very distrubing!!!

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 05:58 PM
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/08/13/us/14xp-heather/14xp-heather-master768.jpg

Garret
08-13-2017, 06:14 PM
I called these crazies "terrorists" said the terrorist attack was a "tragedy"...

Couched within criticism of Obama - so much so, I didn't see that you called them that. So - I stand sorta corrected.

Chris Smith porter maine
08-13-2017, 06:18 PM
Very True,
but we both would expect the president to wait until the attack is confirmed as "Terrorism" by the authorities... just as previous presidents, before labeling it as such, sure the Bilge is quick to jump to conclusions but rational people will wait until some of the facts are in before leaping to judgement.

McMaster did Trump has refused....

Arizona Bay
08-13-2017, 06:21 PM
Organizer of the UTR fascist fest Jason Kessler, was chased away from his own press conference. He was protected by the police he was criticizing. TRMP doesn't see anything wrong with this guy...
Freaking snowflake cowards.


The blogger who organized the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville that turned deadly on Saturday tried to hold a news conference on Sunday afternoon but was
booed by several hundred people (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charlottesville-virginia-unite-the-right-jason-kessler-tackled-podium/) who then chased him away. Jason Kessler came out to speak Sunday afternoon outside Charlottesville City Hall (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/08/13/charlottesville-mayor-rips-unite-right-leader-blames-city-violence/562914001/)but as soon as he opened his mouth, the gathered crowd chanted “shame” over and over again so it was almost impossible to make out what he had to say. And it’s just as well too because Kessler didn’t seem at all interested in putting up appereances to make it seem as though he was interested in calming the waters.

“Today, I just want to come before you and I want to tell you the story of what really happened before this narrative is allowed to continue spinning out of control,” Kessler said, as he raised his voice (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2017/08/13/watch-charlottesville-counterprotesters-shut-down-a-white-nationalists-news-conference/?utm_term=.7382c3d1717b) to try to speak over the protesters. “The hate that you hear around you—that is the anti-white hate that fueled what happened yesterday.” Kessler then continued his vile statement by blaming local law enforcement. “What happened yesterday was the result of the Charlottesville police officers refusing to do their job,” Kessler said. “They stood down and did not follow through with the agreed-upon security arrangements.”

Kessler went on to talk about the planned rally for a bit and gave a perfunctory criticism of violent actions when a pair of protesters approached the podium and got in Kessler’s face: “Indict for murder, now!” one yelled. “He invited these people. Indict for murder, now!” Another voice in the crowd can clearly be heard in the recording yelling “Nazi scum!” A man proceeded to push Kessler while a woman tackled him. He asked for assistance from state troopers, who escorted him out of the area. “I tried my best but once again violence rules over speech and ideas in #Charlottesville,” Kessler wrote on Twitter (https://twitter.com/TheMadDimension/status/896823075295068160). “The first amendment is finished it seems.”
A 47-year-old local man was charged with misdemeanor assault and battery (http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/kessler-s-unite-the-right-announcement-dissolves-into-chaos-arrested/article_23e1d184-8059-11e7-b759-279fe044ca0d.html)after a trooper saw him spit on Kessler.

Tackled by a girl...
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3408472.1502658075!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/charlottesville-virginia.jpg
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/08/13/jason_kessler_organizer_of_white_supremacist_rally _gets_chased_out_of_his.html

jack grebe
08-13-2017, 06:29 PM
What I find interesting is with all those guns being carried around, someone gets killed by a car
Intentionally......... By someone protesting the rally........

We may not always agree (and I don't) with what they have to say, But once we impede
their right to say it, it becomes a slippery slope.......

CWSmith
08-13-2017, 06:33 PM
What I find interesting is with all those guns being carried around, someone gets killed by a car
Intentionally......... By someone protesting the rally........


How do you figure that? That's not what the news has been saying.

He killed a counter-protestor.

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-13-2017, 06:35 PM
What I find interesting is with all those guns being carried around, someone gets killed by a car
Intentionally......... By someone protesting the rally........

We may not always agree (and I don't) with what they have to say, But once we impede
their right to say it, it becomes a slippery slope.......

Jack,

The killer wasn't protesting the rally! He was supporting the rally.

Garret
08-13-2017, 06:37 PM
What I find interesting is with all those guns being carried around, someone gets killed by a car
Intentionally......... By someone protesting the rally........

We may not always agree (and I don't) with what they have to say, But once we impede
their right to say it, it becomes a slippery slope.......

Nossir:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/james-alex-fields-charlottesville-driver-.html


James Alex Fields Jr. of Ohio was charged with second-degree murder in Charlottesville, Va., on Saturday after the authorities said he smashed a car into a line of cars in an episode that left a 32-year-old woman dead and injured at least 19 other people who were protesting a rally staged by white nationalists.

Bold mine

SKIP KILPATRICK
08-13-2017, 06:39 PM
Tackled by a woman ..... snowflake puszy!

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 06:40 PM
"There are none so blind as those that will not see"

They only see what they want

“REPORT: Driver in Virginia Car Attack Was Anti-Trump Protester,” Gateway Pundit blared, plus the name of the Michigan man, whose name The Daily Beast is withholding. “WOW! DUDE HIT THE WRONG CROWD,” the subheadline read.
The “report” Gateway Pundit cited was a now-deleted tweet by a Twitter user named @Aristotle_Code, who goes by “Michael” and whose profile picture is of a sportscar. “Michael” has less than a thousand Twitter followers.
The post was deleted with no retraction.
“BREAKING: #Charlottesville Car Terrorist Is Anti-Trump, Open Borders Druggie,” reported GotNews, a website owned by far-right provocateur Chuck Johnson.
The post, which does not have a byline, cites a “Facebook crawl” of relatives of “license plate searches of the Dodge Challenger” that was used in the attack.
“[Name redacted] likes taking drugs and getting stoned, a look at his social media shows. What he under the influence when he crashed into the crowd at Charlottesville?” the post read.
That post has since been removed.
Still, readers flocked to the Facebook page of the Michigan man who was falsely accused of the homicide. Users finally began to slow the harassment on his page when he posted to Facebook several times while the suspect of the car attack was in custody.
The wrongly accused man has since set his Facebook page to private.
Users on 4chan also believed they had identified the car’s owner by viral posts allegedly identifying the vehicle’s VIN number and license plate. They used that to claim the Michigan man was truly behind the attack.
The publisher of the Federalist and CBS contributor Ben Domenech fueled speculation that 4chan was about to crack the case.

“I told you last night it could get worse. Awful. Particularly if 4chan is accurate as to the identity of the driver,” he wrote. They were not.

Hallam
08-13-2017, 06:43 PM
What I find interesting is with all those guns being carried around, someone gets killed by a car
Intentionally......... By someone protesting the rally........

Quote your source of fake news.

I wonder what percentage of the population believes that statement?
Where is it being promoted or is it just a simple misunderstanding on Jack's behalf?

Mike V.
08-13-2017, 06:45 PM
What I find interesting is with all those guns being carried around, someone gets killed by a car
Intentionally......... By someone protesting the rally........

We may not always agree (and I don't) with what they have to say, But once we impede
their right to say it, it becomes a slippery slope.......

The killer was not someone protesting the rally. He is an admirer of Hitler, http://abcnews.go.com/US/charlottesville-murder-suspects-teacher-thought-nazis-pretty-cool/story?id=49193213

Chris Smith porter maine
08-13-2017, 06:49 PM
What I find interesting is with all those guns being carried around, someone gets killed by a car
Intentionally......... By someone protesting the rally........

We may not always agree (and I don't) with what they have to say, But once we impede
their right to say it, it becomes a slippery slope.......

Watch the news Jack.

Hallam
08-13-2017, 06:57 PM
........ And what about Steve Bannon and his support for the White Supremacist movement?
Time he was hounded out of the White House. What a deplorable situation that a man of his persuasion is in a leadership role in the United States of America. What is his role?
Steve Bannon's role is to give Trump legitimacy among the Nazis the racists and white supremacists who feed on the delusional disinformation emanating from the likes of Breitbart!

jack grebe
08-13-2017, 07:00 PM
Jack,

The killer wasn't protesting the rally! He was supporting the rally.

Come on Skip....... We had this conversation over breakfast........:rolleyes:

David G
08-13-2017, 07:02 PM
"Don't over-estimate Jack. He's purty though."

ftfy

PeterSibley
08-13-2017, 07:25 PM
The alt racist comment on the woman run down in Charlottesville .

https://www.dailystormer.com/heather-heyer-woman-killed-in-road-rage-incident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/

Arizona Bay
08-13-2017, 07:27 PM
The murderer of Heather Heyer earlier that day, dressed as a member of the Virginia based nazi Vanguard America group.
White Polo and khakis.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHIPN21WsAQEDV_.jpg

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 07:31 PM
Likely Jack's source of news?
(Sounds like a page from Trumps playbook)


"Despite feigned outrage by the media, most people are glad she is dead, as she is the definition of uselessness. A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value.
Due to female privilege, and the fact that they do virtually nothing their entire lives, women live an average of 5 years longer than men. The average female lifespan is 81 years. That means for 49 more years, this fat slob would have been leeching off of men’s work."

"Childless women are black hole vortexes of public money and energy.Had she not died yesterday, hundreds of thousands of dollars would have been spent on propping-up this gross creature who had failed to do her most basic duty – her only real duty, in fact – and reproduce.
Having no children at that age, it can be assumed that she had multiple abortions, and was thus herself a child murderer."
Jeebus...

Garret
08-13-2017, 07:33 PM
The alt racist comment on the woman run down in Charlottesville .

https://www.dailystormer.com/heather-heyer-woman-killed-in-road-rage-incident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/

Wow! I knew this people were disgusting, but I had no idea about what vile creatures they really are. Here's a woman just killed by a deranged hater & their headline is:


Heather Heyer: Woman Killed in Road Rage Incident was a Fat, Childless 32-Year-Old Slut



Even better was a few paragraphs down:


Despite feigned outrage by the media, most people are glad she is dead, as she is the definition of uselessness. A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value.


Due to female privilege, and the fact that they do virtually nothing their entire lives, women live an average of 5 years longer than men. The average female lifespan is 81 years. That means for 49 more years, this fat slob would have been leeching off of men’s work.



These are people our president has trouble condemning? Damn I'm embarrassed to be an American right now.

ETA: I see Mr. C Y'all beat me to it, but all this bears repeating - over & over.

Arizona Bay
08-13-2017, 07:37 PM
Is it time for hate speech laws yet?

PeterSibley
08-13-2017, 07:42 PM
You have cancer in your country.

Garret
08-13-2017, 07:44 PM
You have cancer in your country.

We obviously have for a long time, but methinks it's metastasizing...

oznabrag
08-13-2017, 07:55 PM
We obviously have for a long time, but methinks it's metastasizing...

I think that may be so, but I also think that contrary to the conventional wisdom, publicity is the bane of these monsters.

They are not winning any new friends by imitating daesh.

jack grebe
08-13-2017, 08:32 PM
The alt racist comment on the woman run down in Charlottesville .

https://www.dailystormer.com/heather-heyer-woman-killed-in-road-rage-incident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/

Why would you even be reading trash like that?????? What the hell were you looking for?????

skuthorp
08-13-2017, 08:32 PM
My neighbours have just cancelled the US leg of a 4 month trip. Canada, and then on to China and the trans Siberian to europe and then Iceland now.

They are long time travellers in the US, but they say they will now wait till Trump is not in office.

CWSmith
08-13-2017, 08:46 PM
The alt racist comment on the woman run down in Charlottesville .

https://www.dailystormer.com/heather-heyer-woman-killed-in-road-rage-incident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/

Thank you, Peter. It's good to understand the nature of the enemy and the enemy is foul.

WX
08-13-2017, 08:48 PM
A
Very True,
but we both would expect the president to wait until the attack is confirmed as "Terrorism" by the authorities... just as previous presidents, before labeling it as such, sure the Bilge is quick to jump to conclusions but rational people will wait until some of the facts are in before leaping to judgement.

So a Muslim ramming a vehicle into pedestrians is a terrorist act but the same act by a nazi isnt?

skuthorp
08-13-2017, 08:58 PM
No. He's an 'exceptional' American………….. well, maybe not so exceptional but that seems to depend on your political leanings.………….

Barry
08-13-2017, 09:04 PM
Likely Jack's source of news?
(Sounds like a page from Trumps playbook)


"Despite feigned outrage by the media, most people are glad she is dead, as she is the definition of uselessness. A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value.
Due to female privilege, and the fact that they do virtually nothing their entire lives, women live an average of 5 years longer than men. The average female lifespan is 81 years. That means for 49 more years, this fat slob would have been leeching off of men’s work."

"Childless women are black hole vortexes of public money and energy.Had she not died yesterday, hundreds of thousands of dollars would have been spent on propping-up this gross creature who had failed to do her most basic duty – her only real duty, in fact – and reproduce.
Having no children at that age, it can be assumed that she had multiple abortions, and was thus herself a child murderer."
Jeebus...

This attitude is more prevalent than one would think.
The Rise of the Valkyries
In the alt-right, women are the future, and the problem By Seyward Darby (https://harpers.org/author/seywarddarby/)



https://harpers.org/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-valkyries/

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 09:09 PM
Why would you even be reading trash like that?????? What the hell were you looking for?????

We were looking for the truth, to shed some light on the BS for the gullible that you posted. And we found it. A good definition is "Deplorable"


What I find interesting is with all those guns being carried around, someone gets killed by a car
Intentionally......... By someone protesting the rally........

John Smith
08-13-2017, 09:26 PM
I think that, give past performance, that they would refuse to answer and go on to say that if you had to ask the question, you are the opposition. Zealots don't need to explain, as their cause is obvious. That's why they are zealots.

As may be, it's been my experience that asking a question sometimes causes the one of whom it is asked to think. Sometimes thinking causes them to change their minds. People often listen to someone and agree with what they say without thinking. Getting them to think is worth a try.

skuthorp
08-13-2017, 09:48 PM
The social media ripples continue to spread via a link that urges people that can identify any RW demonstrators to identify them. Reports here say that some have already lost their jobs.
And Donald? Says nothing. It's a situation that need leadership lest it deteriorate even further.

I don't know about our US members but this could get very ugly and dangerous. Backing the RW into a corner will not help calm matters.

SMARTINSEN
08-13-2017, 09:49 PM
What I find interesting is with all those guns being carried around, someone gets killed by a car
Intentionally......... By someone protesting the rally........

We may not always agree (and I don't) with what they have to say, But once we impede
their right to say it, it becomes a slippery slope.......


The murderer of Heather Heyer earlier that day, dressed as a member of the Virginia based nazi Vanguard America group.
White Polo and khakis.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHIPN21WsAQEDV_.jpg

Several have pointed to the error in your post, will you admit to it? If not, why not?

PeterSibley
08-13-2017, 09:53 PM
Why would you even be reading trash like that?????? What the hell were you looking for?????

It was posted to my Facebook page , the world is watching the US crumble.

Keith Wilson
08-13-2017, 09:56 PM
It was posted to my Facebook page , the world is watching the US crumble.Serious exaggeration. There are a lot of people in the US and a few of them are damned fools, but I've never run into an example of these yahoos in person in my entire life.

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 10:22 PM
Serious exaggeration. There are a lot of people in the US and a few of them are damned fools, but I've never run into an example of these yahoos in person in my entire life.

Having recently returned from a trip to Virginia I will reluctantly say you may not be getting out enough. Being employed in the heavy construction industry I see and hear it every day even here in Ca. and often I caution salesmen and vendors that I am a "screaming liberal"... meaning they will not make a sale unless they remain reticent.

Much of my family is alumni from UVA, one is professor emeritus. A week spent in the environs of Charlottesville (in particular the Blue Ridge Mtns) alerted me that Trump would likely win. That racist stuff is not far below the surface, and when you see public property with huge Trump signs posted it is alarming.
(The greensward at the first highway exit in Madison County had a 10'x 20' Trump sign proudly displayed in front of an equally sized "Welcome to Madison County" sign)

mdh
08-13-2017, 10:22 PM
Serious exaggeration. There are a lot of people in the US and a few of them are damned fools, but I've never run into an example of these yahoos in person in my entire life.

Nor i. See a rebel flag once in a while.

Hallam
08-13-2017, 10:33 PM
If there is a continued lack of leadership on this issue, one might be inclined to think civil unrest is viewed by Trump as a situation he could use to his advantage in some way?

Phillip Allen
08-13-2017, 10:41 PM
And the 1st Amendment?

the 1st should be limited to muzzle loading flint locks :)

PeterSibley
08-13-2017, 10:41 PM
Serious exaggeration. There are a lot of people in the US and a few of them are damned fools, but I've never run into an example of these yahoos in person in my entire life.

You may regard it as exaggeration and it may well be but from the outside looking at Trump, Swastikas and the like it's sure not the USA we grew up with.

Hallam
08-13-2017, 10:47 PM
Interesting opinion piece in the UK Independent on the subject with the headline:

Donald Trump is to blame for the Charlottesville far-right rally

Trump didn’t create the white supremacists who marched in Virginia, but he brought them back out of the shadows and into the light of the flaming cross. He is their enabler




http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-charlottesville-virginia-white-supremacists-racism-far-right-rally-a7890711.html

Canoeyawl
08-13-2017, 10:49 PM
You may regard it as exaggeration and it may well be but from the outside looking at Trump, Swastikas and the like it's sure not the USA we grew up with.

They have kept the lid on it for about 50 years, even using the national guard when required but now it may prove to be a Pandoras box.

PeterSibley
08-13-2017, 10:50 PM
Yes, permission has been given by the Orange One.

David G
08-13-2017, 10:56 PM
"White supremacists can march on my hometown, but they can’t win."
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/dahlia_lithwick_on_the_nazis_in_charlottesville.ht ml

When the red dust of Virginia settles, after this horrifying weekend in my hometown of Charlottesville, one thing will be clear: The white nationalists and Nazis who marched through town this Friday and Saturday perfectly reflected the President Trump they so admire. Their slogan—”You will not replace us”—is, in Trumpian fashion, a pledge to restore vanishing privilege and power. It’s also a bald-faced lie, a fake promise and a short con. Not one single word of it is true.

David G
08-13-2017, 11:14 PM
Some Republican voices --

https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16139144/gop-senators-react-trump-charlottesville?yptr=yahoo

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/562347582215573505/4BV0djAm_normal.jpeg Cory Gardner ✔ @SenCoryGardner (https://twitter.com/SenCoryGardner)
Mr. President - we must call evil by its name. These were white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism. https://twitter.com/sencorygardner/status/896465229181210624 … (https://t.co/PaPNiPPAoW)
1:44 PM - Aug 12, 2017 (https://twitter.com/SenCoryGardner/status/896472477844385792)


5,440 5,440 Replies (https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=896472477844385792)
41,021 41,021 Retweets (https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=896472477844385792)
102,482 (https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=896472477844385792)

Sky Blue
08-13-2017, 11:54 PM
Trump's remarks have been appropriate and even-handed.

The demand is that he should condemn the relevant groups to the exclusion of others committing political violence in America today. To do so would be dishonest.
He should continue to be evenhanded in his condemnations.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/08/what-is-wrong-with-president-trumps-statements-on-charlottesville.php

mdh
08-14-2017, 12:28 AM
Let me see if i got this right: Trump is a nazi who has a Jewish daughter and granchildren and won the election 'cause the Russians helped him.











Is this a trick?

C. Ross
08-14-2017, 12:40 AM
Trump's remarks have been appropriate and even-handed.

The demand is that he should condemn the relevant groups to the exclusion of others committing political violence in America today. To do so would be dishonest.
He should continue to be evenhanded in his condemnations.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/08/what-is-wrong-with-president-trumps-statements-on-charlottesville.php

Absolute bollocks.

Within moments of a terrorist attack with an even vague connection to Islamic terror President Trump is tweeting. He calls it terrorism. He names the enemy. He calls for national action.

When a white christian terrorist shoots a half dozen Canadians? Silence.

A bombing at a Minnesota mosque? Silence. (Though his oily minion Sebastian Gorka makes gurgling sounds about false flag exploits.)

White supremacists on the March and killing people? Prevarication and waffling and recovery efforts.

Evenhanded?? Since when on God's green earth has a measured tone towards admitted racists and neo-Nazis been a virtue.

Stand with decency or not. But the Powerline guys have, in those pieces, traded in their integrity for political expediency.

Trump is not worth defending when he does the undefendable. He knows what he's doing.

Hallam
08-14-2017, 12:41 AM
Let me see if i got this right: Trump is a nazi who has a Jewish daughter and granchildren and won the election 'cause the Russians helped him.


Is this a trick?

Is this a trick question?

Let me see:
* "Trump is a nazi"

Nah. He's a rich kid who grew into a rich man but never really matured in many aspects of his personality.
While he aint a nazi he will use the nazi element among his voters to achieve his objectives.

* "who has a Jewish daughter and granchildren"
yes, I think you got that one right... his Son in Law is Jewish and his daughter converted.

* "won the election 'cause the Russians helped him"
Nah, that's not why he won. But on the issue of Russian collusion and meddling not to mention THE MONEY...... where there's smoke there's fire!

One and a half out of three is not bad I suppose....

C. Ross
08-14-2017, 12:44 AM
Let me see if i got this right: Trump is a nazi who has a Jewish daughter and granchildren and won the election 'cause the Russians helped him.











Is this a trick?

Trump isn't a Nazi, he just can't bring himself to call out naziism and racism and white supremacy. Read the quotes from David Duke and the lizards on Der Sturmer quoted here. They think Trump is their guy.

On everything else you have it right. Contradictory, right? It's because Trump has no ideology, no guide, no conscience. He's just about Trump. So all that stuff can go together. Bigly. It's beautiful. The greatest ever. Trust me.

gypsie
08-14-2017, 12:57 AM
We may not always agree (and I don't) with what they have to say, But once we impede
their right to say it, it becomes a slippery slope.......

It is slippy, but a leader of a group of people who has just taken the life of a person (i don't mean to be glib, but that is the most extreme way of killing free speech) shouldn't be given a podium to inject more invective. i feel when he and his cohort went that far they lost the right to dignified consideration.

gypsie
08-14-2017, 01:13 AM
Let me see if i got this right: Trump is a nazi who has a Jewish daughter and granchildren and won the election 'cause the Russians helped him.

Is this a trick?

No - not a nazi; but that's not something he feels strongly about denying either.


....the president is trapped by the origins of his own unmerited success, as well as by his innate moral cowardice. When masked inadequates give the Nazi salute and yell “Heil Trump!”, he dare not disown them.


Compare and contrast the splendid outrage of Virginia’s governor, Terry McAuliffe, who did not hesitate to distinguish between right and wrong. “You are not patriots,” he said. “You came here today to hurt people and that is not patriotic … My message is clear: we are stronger than you. You will not succeed. There is no place for you here and there is no place for you in America.”

Donald Trump’s response to these disturbances ".....Let’s come together as one! (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/896420822780444672)”

Not a nazi, but maybe a nazi appeaser.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/13/charlottesville-white-supremacists-donald-trump

Phillip Allen
08-14-2017, 02:49 AM
Interesting opinion piece in the UK Independent on the subject with the headline:

Donald Trump is to blame for the Charlottesville far-right rally

Trump didn’t create the white supremacists who marched in Virginia, but he brought them back out of the shadows and into the light of the flaming cross. He is their enabler




http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-charlottesville-virginia-white-supremacists-racism-far-right-rally-a7890711.html

what brought them out was/is the new reconstruction in the form of attacking their favorite flag and statues. was anyone fool enough to think their would not be a push back? try a little child psychology next time

isla
08-14-2017, 03:37 AM
Web hosting company GoDaddy has given a US neo-Nazi site 24 hours to find another provider after it disparaged a woman who died in protests in Virginia.

The Daily Stormer published a piece denigrating Heather Heyer, who was killed on Saturday after a car rammed into a crowd protesting at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville.
GoDaddy had faced calls to remove the white supremacist site as a result.
The web host said the Daily Stormer had violated its terms of service.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40922029

mdh
08-14-2017, 03:40 AM
Trump isn't a Nazi, he just can't bring himself to call out naziism and racism and white supremacy. Read the quotes from David Duke and the lizards on Der Sturmer quoted here. They think Trump is their guy.

On everything else you have it right. Contradictory, right? It's because Trump has no ideology, no guide, no conscience. He's just about Trump. So all that stuff can go together. Bigly. It's beautiful. The greatest ever. Trust me.

Oh, but there's been plenty of implication that he's both a nazi and Putin's lover on this forum. The democrats laughed when he put his hat in the ring, but the contortions they're going through now show they don't know what hit 'em.

As to you're other rant: he made the call to Trudeau after the shooting, i'm not a fan of big, blustery speeches. Especially the ones with I, I, I, me, me, me. The Minnesota Mosque Bombing sounds much more like a prank, or possibly, a false flag operation. Early Saturday morning, no one hurt: certainly not on par with a suicide bomber.

The Charlottesville incident was permitted, upon your ACLU's intercedence, for their right to free assembly. They knew their numbers were small, and had seen the opposition at Berkley, Seattle, etc., and they came dressed for the occasion. I haven't heard of, and likely doubt anyone would have issued, a permit for the opposition group. They showed up with their own weapons, and created the mood. I don't know who threw the first punch, but if the police backed away and let it happen, a nutjob killed a woman, and hurt or killed more. For anybody to insinuate that the President is egging this on, is fanatic, feeble, deceit. There were idiots on one side, and paid protesters on the other: and you want him to take sides. Most of the people there didn't kill anybody, only one did.

We need to deescalate the situation, not feed the frenzy. I have nothing in common with supremacists, of any kind. I wouldn't be allowed in the KKK, but the constitution says freedom of speech: and that means speech you don't like, or it means nothing, though i believe there are fighting words. Even though you and I might despise a racist, we can't hit him because he says he's better than us. And even though i don't think it's been adjudicated yet, you probably can't deny to bake him a cake, either.

Hallam
08-14-2017, 03:48 AM
Web hosting company GoDaddy has given a US neo-Nazi site 24 hours to find another provider after it disparaged a woman who died in protests in Virginia.

The Daily Stormer published a piece denigrating Heather Heyer, who was killed on Saturday after a car rammed into a crowd protesting at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville.
GoDaddy had faced calls to remove the white supremacist site as a result.
The web host said the Daily Stormer had violated its terms of service.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40922029
Anonymous has taken controll over the Daily Stormer homepage

Hallam
08-14-2017, 04:22 AM
Anonymous has taken controll over the Daily Stormer homepage

I may have to correct myself.

According to Anonymous they have nothing to do with the hack of the Daily Stormer web site. It now seems possible that those behind the web page are hoaxing the hack to stir things up aggorging to an article from The Independant:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/daily-stormer-anonymous-hack-cyber-attack-nazi-charlottesville-virginia-godaddy-a7891836.html

Peerie Maa
08-14-2017, 04:44 AM
They knew their numbers were small, and had seen the opposition at Berkley, Seattle, etc., and they came dressed for the occasion..

Yer, right.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/DF8F/production/_97313275_shields.jpg

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/12DF6/production/_97320377_fight.jpg

They came armed to cause trouble.

mdh
08-14-2017, 04:48 AM
It takes two to tango.

C. Ross
08-14-2017, 06:01 AM
Oh, but there's been plenty of implication that he's both a nazi and Putin's lover on this forum. The democrats laughed when he put his hat in the ring, but the contortions they're going through now show they don't know what hit 'em.

Nazi? Nah. Fascistic? President Trump's actions and inactions, words and silences, speak for themselves with respect to his alignment with the alt-right. I'm not a Democrat but I laughed and I'm still laughing at our President. I think all of us know what hit us, now.


As to you're other rant: he made the call to Trudeau after the shooting, i'm not a fan of big, blustery speeches. Especially the ones with I, I, I, me, me, me.

It must be so difficult for you. Isn't President Trump's entire administration focused on big, blustery speeches all about "I, I, I, me, me, me"? Really, I'm not joking. Read your words. Watch our President for a week.

Call to Trudeau? How sweet of him. A nut job who appears Islamic waves a machete at the Louvre and Trump tweets immediately and calls on the nation to "get smart". Six people murdered, quiet phone call. Does our President love Macron or Trudeau best? Or does he clearly have a double standard for Islamic violence and other violence?


The Minnesota Mosque Bombing sounds much more like a prank, or possibly, a false flag operation. Early Saturday morning, no one hurt: certainly not on par with a suicide bomber.

Think very, very carefully. A bomb goes off in the senior pastor's office in the biggest church in Oklahoma City. After a series of threats issued to the church, all carefully reported to the police. What would you think? What would President Trump say? And really, what is the reason NOT to say, when asked, "Yeah, I heard about the bomb at the mosque. I'm glad the Imam was running late that day and wasn't hurt. Who sets off a bomb in a church or mosque? I'm glad everyone's safe and I hope local law enforcement figures it out." Quiet, right? Decent and puts the issue behind him. Why NOT say it when asked? Instead, you're standing with the buffoonish Sebastian Gorka?


The Charlottesville incident was permitted, upon your ACLU's intercedence, for their right to free assembly. ...

There were idiots on one side, and paid protesters on the other: and you want him to take sides. Most of the people there didn't kill anybody, only one did.

We need to deescalate the situation, not feed the frenzy. ...

... the constitution says freedom of speech: and that means speech you don't like, or it means nothing, though i believe there are fighting words. Even though you and I might despise a racist, we can't hit him because he says he's better than us.

A lot of promise here. Good for you. MY ACLU? Sounds more like YOUR ACLU, who defends speech precisely as you do.

Do I want him to take sides? Yes, I want my President to never take the side or appear to take the side of the KKK, Nazi-flag carriers, and the alt-right. So does everybody, including the Speaker of the House and many other Republicans.

The President need only say calmly and clearly that he's saddened by the violence, that hate speech is allowed by the Constitution but right-thinking people don't support these kinds of ideas, and call on people to oppose hate speech with good words and not violence in return. That's what EVERY contemporary President, Republican or Democrat before Trump, would have said. Why not, President Trump?

TomF
08-14-2017, 06:08 AM
It takes two to tango.So, what should America's response be to NK if they drop a missile near Guam? Should America not prepare to defend herself, and if necessary, do some damage?

I personally have quite a lot of time for nonviolent resistance in situations like Charlottesville, and have highlighted some such responses on my FB page. For instance, students holding hands in a circle around a Thomas Jefferson statue. Clergy from a variety of faiths standing together in a line, dressed in liturgical robes, praying while facing a line of armed Neo-nazis.

But I have yet to read anything from you advocating nonviolent resistance. So when the bad guys show up in your town with shields and bats and open carry rifles which just might be converted to full auto, what will you do?

Peerie Maa
08-14-2017, 07:08 AM
Pence does it better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrcn0gnpAN8

Keith Wilson
08-14-2017, 07:10 AM
Just to clarify:

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png

Chris Coose
08-14-2017, 07:12 AM
SCROTUS has confirmed without doubt this weekend that he is racist and is surrounded by racist advisers.

Keith Wilson
08-14-2017, 07:17 AM
Or at the very least, that he supports and encourages them for political advantage with silence and a wink, whether he really agrees with them or not. Vile scum.


Trump Joins the Neo-Confederates
By Ed Kilgore

There is a sinister congruence between the president’s reaction to the white-supremacist riot in Charlottesville yesterday and the object the rioters assembled to defend: the city’s doomed Robert E. Lee statue. Both are manifestations of Neo-Confederacy, the fierce, century-long effort of the Southern ruling class to normalize white racism so long as it did not degenerate into extralegal violence.

Like most of its counterparts across and beyond the South, Charlottesville’s Lee statue was not erected during the Civil War or in the period when ex-Confederates might be expected to remember the famed military leader of the planter’s rebellion. It was commissioned in 1917 and erected in 1924 as a monument, not to the Confederacy, but to the rebellion’s posthumous victory over Reconstruction and the Civil War amendments to the Constitution.

The Neo-Confederates and their many Yankee sympathizers viewed Jim Crow as a peaceable compromise between slavery and racial equality. In that regime’s latter days, whole generations of white Southern politicians posed as civil upholders of law and order equally opposed both to civil-rights “agitators” and to the white-trash hoodlums of the Ku Klux Klan, who were successors to the white terrorists that the “better element” of Southerners strongly supported during and immediately after Reconstruction. These politicians often condemned, as Donald Trump did yesterday, the “egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides,” that threatened the quiet tyranny of Jim Crow. They preferred a “civil” resistance to equality in Congress and the courts, and in the genteel Citizens’ Councils that, as one sociologist aptly put it, “pursued the agenda of the Klan with the demeanor of the Rotary Club.”

The Neo-Confederates lost the battle against civil rights, but maintained a cultural rearguard for many years. You heard at least a faint echo of their words every time a conservative Southern politician hailed “law and order,” or attacked “the welfare,” or demanded maximum incarceration of African-American “predators.” This sort of politics maintained an unmistakable connection to nostalgia for the Old South, an imagined tranquil place of good manners and interracial understanding.

But until Donald Trump’s election, it seemed Neo-Confederacy had finally about run its course. The display of Confederate regalia on state flags, public buildings, and even football mascots gradually became distasteful, even to many conservative politicians. In 1993, when Georgia governor Zell Miller (later a conservative hero) proposed getting rid of the Confederate symbolism on Georgia’s state flag (imposed not during or after the Civil War, but during the period of white resistance to desegregation), soon-to-be House Speaker Newt Gingrich supported him. And by the time South Carolina governor Nikki Haley finally had the Confederate Battle Flag taken down from the statehouse after an outburst of racist violence — nearly 20 years after a Republican predecessor had proposed the same thing — it aroused little public opposition.

Yes, even hard-core conservatives began to understand that Confederate insignia were not just parts of history that today’s Southerners should “cherish,” to use the president’s startling allusion to the Lee statue, but part of a retroactive effort to whitewash history in the pursuit of racist lies.

But then, in the blink of an eye, the backlash to acts of simple racial decency began. It was not confined to Donald Trump’s campaign, but in many corners of the right, hostility to “political correctness” — defined as sensitivity to the fears and concerns of, well, anyone other than white men — became a hallmark of the “populist” conservatism Trump made fashionable and ultimately ascendent.

And so the relatively uncontroversial movement to get Jim Crow era Confederate insignia and memorials out of the public square and back into museums and history books suddenly faced renewed opposition — not just from the motley crew of open white supremacists who viewed the 45th president as their hero, but from politicians who saw a broader constituency for a brand-new era of white backlash. It is no mistake that Corey Stewart — who was Trump’s 2016 Virginia campaign chair until he was dumped for excessive public hostility to anti-Trump elements in the Republican National Committee — seized on the decision of the Charlottesville City Council to remove the Lee monument as an example of contemptible “political correctness” in his surprisingly successful 2017 GOP gubernatorial campaign (which fell just short of upsetting the heavily favored Ed Gillespie). Stewart, who is now running for U.S. Senate, not only defended Trump’s refusal to distinguish between white supremacists and their opponents in the Charlottesville violence, but took it to the next level in an interview with Breitbart News:

"We have the violent left which recently attacked a U.S. Congressman [Steve Scalise], which has been attacking Trump supporters across the country, and I never hear Democratic politicians condemning them. I’m not going to play their game. I am not going to condemn anyone other than the criminal. We always have to protect citizens who are trying to exercise their First Amendment rights. From my perspective, there were a lot of left-wing agitators who violently attacked citizens who were trying to espouse their views last night and today."

So there you have it: Not only were the Nazis, Klansmen, and other white supremacists who chose Charlottesville for their big rally simply trying to “espouse their views,” but also conservatives should not say a discouraging word to them so long as they aren’t “the criminal,” however that is defined.

Perhaps the president will eventually be convinced by his more politically pragmatic allies to draw a clear line between himself and the racists who revere him. It would be immensely more valuable if he condemned not just idiot Klansmen and neo-Nazis but demagogues like Stewart whose idea of “Trumpism” is to champion any and all types of white backlash to “political correctness” and “the Left” as legitimate, or at least understandable. As my colleague Olivia Nuzzi notes, Trump is not a politician who has shown the least reluctance to call out and condemn by name — and by insulting nickname — whomever and whatever he finds objectionable. His silence condemns him to the opprobrium rightly felt toward the Neo-Confederates who even now defend the monuments to white supremacy.
(Source (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/08/trump-joins-the-neo-confederates.html).)

SMARTINSEN
08-14-2017, 07:25 AM
Trump's remarks have been appropriate and even-handed.

The demand is that he should condemn the relevant groups to the exclusion of others committing political violence in America today. To do so would be dishonest.
He should continue to be evenhanded in his condemnations.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/08/what-is-wrong-with-president-trumps-statements-on-charlottesville.php

Do you think that the president should condemn white supremacy?

Do you condemn white supremacy?

Keith Wilson
08-14-2017, 07:30 AM
From The New Republic, a harsher view (source (https://newrepublic.com/article/144306/donald-trumps-racist-troops)):


These Are Donald Trump’s Racist Troops
The violent neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville wasn't an unintended consequence of the president's politics. It was the goal.
By Bryan Buetler, August 14, 2017

It is tempting to view President Donald Trump’s response to the weekend mob of murderous neo-Nazis in Charlottesville, Virginia, as a logical, if morally heinous, extension of Southern Strategy politics.

Liberal journalists, including Judd Legum and Chris Hayes, have adopted an analysis of cynicism, in which Trump has intuited the importance of white supremacists to his political coalition, and will thus go to great lengths to placate them, so the coalition doesn’t splinter. (tweets C&P here) This thinking feels so plausible in part because the Southern Strategy is such a well understood facet of modern Republicanism. It can’t be a stretch to accuse the Republican president of deploying the most elemental of Republican political tactics.

The truth is in fact far worse. Trump and many of his closest advisers aren’t making common cause with vile racists for political advantage. They are the vile racists, and are supporting fellow racists at substantial political risk because they want the racist vision to prevail.

The argument that Trump appeases and placates white supremacists as a form of coalition management is an argument that proves too much. If it were correct, Trump would have something to show for it that other Republicans who flirt with only subtler bigotries do not. Instead, Trump ran behind nearly every Republican senator who was in cycle in 2016. He managed to win the presidency despite garnering fewer votes not only than his opponent, Hillary Clinton, but than any victorious president since 2000, in population-adjusted terms.

In his remarks on Saturday, when he infamously condemned bigotry “on many sides,” Trump also admonished citizens to “love each other, respect each other, and cherish our history.” This all sounds banal enough until you place it in the context of the unrest itself. Nazis and neo-Confederates gathered in Charlottesville, nominally at least, to protest plans to remove a monument to Robert E. Lee from a city park. The generic appeal to history is the pretext racists use to support the valorization of a slave society and its military leaders. Trump didn’t just draw a moral equivalence between Nazis and counter-protesters, but took the Nazis’ side in the dispute that motivated their violence.

Trump is most likely not literate enough to have composed those words. His affinity for white supremacists is more atavistic than intellectual. It is almost certain, though, that this particular coded language was written into his prepared text by one of three fascistic advisers: Stephen Miller, a one-time fellow traveler of Richard Spencer, who coined the term “alt-right”; Sebastian Gorka, the bellowing ogre who was once affiliated with the Nazi-aligned Hungarian nationalist order of Vitézi Rend; or Steve Bannon, the anti-modernist Breitbart impresario who idolizes Nazi propagandists.

Not everyone who works for Trump supports the same ends as the racists in Charlottesville, but those who do have created a formidable power center within the White House. Contrary to myth, the caretaker generals of the Trump administration have not fully cleaned house, and to the extent that they’ve driven some messianic right-wingers from the administration, the imprint those departed staffers have left behind is unmistakable.

Most recently, The Atlantic reported that national security advisor General H.R. McMaster had removed a former Pentagon official named Rich Higgins from the National Security Council after discovering that Higgins had written and circulated a paranoid and wildly inappropriate memo, which argues that conducting “political warfare” against Trump’s enemies is a matter of dire urgency for the country.

Last week, Foreign Policy obtained the memo and published it online. (You can read it here (http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/10/heres-the-memo-that-blew-up-the-nsc/)) It is seven pages long and completely demented. Higgins posits a vast alliance spanning establishment Republicans and Marxists who together with Islamists employ “Maoist insurgency” tactics, including the formation of a “counter-state” which “function[s] as a hostile competing state acting within an existing state,” aimed at eventually “seizing state power.” It is all the way around the bend. But its existence is no accident, and its content reflects a non-outlying viewpoint, held by many senior officials in the administration, including the president himself. According to Foreign Policy, the memo made its way from the NSC to Donald Trump’s eldest son. Trump, Jr. reportedly shared it with his father who “gushed over it” and became “furious” when he learned that Higgins had been fired.

The memo is, in a critical sense, a governing incarnation of the notorious pro-Trump treatise “The Flight 93 Election,” published in September of last year. That essay, nearly as unmoored from reality, held out similar enemies as foils to motivate Trump-skeptical conservatives to vote for him nonetheless. First, saving the country from imagined forces like “cultural marxism,” and real forces like white demographic decline, required conservatives to abandon their moral bearings. Now that he’s president, it requires enlisting the national security apparatus into political war against those same enemies—their own countrymen. “The Flight 93 Election” was published pseudonymously, then revealed to have been written by Michael Anton, who now serves—where else?—on Trump’s National Security Council.

The arrival of these ugly people and their ugly views into the halls of power would be alarming even if they hadn’t infiltrated the security services. Upon Trump’s election, the National Rifle Association transformed almost overnight from an organization that posed as a civil liberties advocacy group into, essentially, a pro-government paramilitary outfit. The fantasy of mowing protesters over with cars became so potent among Trump’s core supporters that Republicans in several states introduced legislation aimed at indemnifying motorists who struck protesters with motor vehicles.

The killing in Charlottesville wasn’t an unintended consequence of allowing white supremacists to coexist with others in the conservative coalition. It was the realization of concerted efforts to make their vision of politics a dominant strand within the party. That white supremacists and Nazis feel redeemed by Trump’s election, permitted by his words to stir up more Charlottesvilles, isn’t a consequence Trump and his brigade of racists have simply made peace with. It’s the thing in itself.

Chris Coose
08-14-2017, 07:31 AM
Or at the very least, that he supports and encourages them for political advantage with silence and a wink, whether he really agrees with them or not. Vile scum.


Don't care if he agrees with them or not. As an individual, all on his own, the entire run up to his remarks this weekend makes him racist. The list is of acts and words is long.
It is enablement after this weekend to look other places to describe this ****.

Garret
08-14-2017, 07:31 AM
Trump's remarks have been appropriate and even-handed.

The demand is that he should condemn the relevant groups to the exclusion of others committing political violence in America today. To do so would be dishonest.
He should continue to be evenhanded in his condemnations.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/08/what-is-wrong-with-president-trumps-statements-on-charlottesville.php

Mr. Ross said it well, but I have to ask again - since you haven't answered: would you have answered this way if the protest were put on by African-Americans? By Muslims? I think your own racism/bigotry is shining through - just as your hero's is.

CWSmith
08-14-2017, 07:33 AM
SCROTUS has confirmed without doubt this weekend that he is racist and is surrounded by racist advisers.

No. He has proven that he is an opportunist without core values other than personal validation, power, and wealth. You give him too much credit.

Keith Wilson
08-14-2017, 07:39 AM
And here's the text of Higgins' memo (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3922874/Political-Warfare.pdf); it's too long to C&P. It's utterly appalling, and completely insane. The fact that that the guy who wrote this was on the National Security Council until very recently is beyond appalling.

amish rob
08-14-2017, 07:44 AM
Pence does it better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrcn0gnpAN8

Hey. Wow. I like this.

Peace,
Robert

John Smith
08-14-2017, 07:58 AM
Most of us, i believe, realize that Trump's anti-Muslim actions help ISIS recruit. How does protesting a KKK rally not help the KKK recruit?

My first rule, in fighting any enemy, would be to not do anything that would make them stronger.

I think racists, bigots, are basically not very bright. I'd like to think the rest of the people are smarter and would come up with better, more intelligent ways, to combat the ignorance.

Peerie Maa
08-14-2017, 08:23 AM
Most of us, i believe, realize that Trump's anti-Muslim actions help ISIS recruit. How does protesting a KKK rally not help the KKK recruit?

My first rule, in fighting any enemy, would be to not do anything that would make them stronger.

I think racists, bigots, are basically not very bright. I'd like to think the rest of the people are smarter and would come up with better, more intelligent ways, to combat the ignorance.

You have to use every method you can find, not just telling the bigots, but the bigots children, from the school at assembly, from the pulpit, from the White House press conference lectern, in the news papers and on the news media. Tell them it is wrong, anti social and why it is wrong.

ishmael
08-14-2017, 08:26 AM
When the great American novelist and humorist Mark Twain was abroad on his second grand tour(the first had been as a young man, for pleasure, the second was business, he had major debts to pay from poor investments) he received word of his passing. His response on hearing this was, "News of my demise has been greatly exaggerated.";) The same can be said to some of our domestic and international friends on this forum who think they see the U.S. crumbling because of what happened in Charlotte. A little perspective:

The size of the rally of yahoos was put at around 500-550. These guys came from all over the country. There have always been yahoos here, and always will be. From religious crackpots, to political firebrands, thinkers of all kinds are welcome here. It's one of our great strengths, because along with the crazies the marvelous yet different also are allowed to take root and, on the merit of their ideas, the strength of their convictions, perhaps to flourish.

This rally was a sad commentary on the human condition, but if this group represents some large part of President Trumps electoral base I'd be surprised. Five hundred fringe whackos isn't exactly the Nuremberg rallies! Is their message potentially resonant with some who are generally disaffected and looking for a rallying cry? Probably. The disaffected, the lost, often find themselves without a compass, and it's something to keep an eye on. At this point and into the future, however, I see such ideologies, both left and right, as a dead end in this country. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see them flourishing.

The other aspect of the rally that needs to be addressed is the carrying of weapons. Our first amendment assures the right of freedom of/from religion and freedom of speech, and to PEACEABLY assemble, and to redress the government for grievances. One doesn't bring a rifle, or an overt weapon of any sort, to a peaceful gathering. One brings a weapon with the expectation of either defending oneself from or of instigating violence.

The rally goers had a permit for this march, and the issuer of the permit should have had the authority to ban the carrying of weapons. If they didn't have that authority, or refused to use it because of some twisted reading of the second amendment, that needs to change. I'm a supporter of our second amendment, but it wasn't intended to allow intimidation of the first. Stirring the pot in this way, by any group left or right, thus increasing tension on the ground, is a recipe for what happened last weekend. This isn't an issue of left or right(there HAVE been demonstrations on the left of late that turned intimidating and violent, some where the participants openly carried rifles), it's an American issue that all reasonable people should be able to agree on.

Finally, on a personal note. I've had occasion over the last year to meet some of my neighbors. Frankly, I'm sorry to say, it wasn't a "hey how are ya, get to know ya" kinda meeting, I needed minor favors. One time my phone was out, the other I needed to borrow a jumper cable. One of the meetings was lovely, I was invited in, we shot the s*** etc, but the other two were a bit disturbing in their lack of grace. I got what I needed, but no neighborly jawing. Maybe they were busy or what have you, but I sensed a sort of paranoia about the "stranger" that was new to me. It could be nothing, but there's no question we have a lot of untoward tension in this country right now. I've seen long-standing friendships dissolve over the current political divide.

My prescription? Meet people, perhaps especially the ones you disagree with, even vehemently. Don't gloss over the differences, but don't dwell on them either. Try to understand where they come from, what they are saying, and why rather than just argue with them attempting to change them.

I need to burn some brush this fall, and I'm going to make it a bonfire party and invite my close neighbors. We'll, hopefully, dance pagan dances around the fire, laugh, and howl at the moon, like people ought to do from time to time just to remind themselves they are human beings.

Cheers,

Jack

P.S. The president should denounce all such violence in the strongest possible terms and naming names. That he hasn't is shameful.

mmd
08-14-2017, 08:31 AM
"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know." - Jonathan Swift, 1738

Chris Coose
08-14-2017, 08:38 AM
There have always been yahoos here, and always will be. From religious crackpots, to political firebrands, thinkers of all kinds are welcome here.
You weren't listening very carefully to the racist you voted for while he was campaigning.

Garret
08-14-2017, 08:45 AM
...
The size of the rally of yahoos was put at around 500-550. These guys came from all over the country. There have always been yahoos here, and always will be. From religious crackpots, to political firebrands, thinkers of all kinds are welcome here. It's one of our great strengths, because along with the crazies the marvelous yet different also are allowed to take root and, on the merit of their ideas, the strength of their convictions, perhaps to flourish.
...

Cheers,

Jack

P.S. The president should denounce all such violence in the strongest possible terms and naming names. That he hasn't is shameful.

Jack - I'm glad you added that last bit, but I have to disagree with the paragraph I quoted above it. Do these creatures have a right to stage a rally? Sure. What they do not have any right to is intimidation or murder. While I'll protect their right to assemble, I will never, ever say they are welcome. Having our president condemn the people protesting this hateful demonstration is sickening. Those people are the ones we should all be proud of.

Bobcat
08-14-2017, 08:45 AM
You weren't listening very carefully to the racist you voted for while he was campaigning.

Unfortunately, a lot of people were listening very carefully to Trump and are still listening to him. It is very telling that the Neo-Nazis and other scum are posting how pleased they are with his remarks.

Trump is anything but even handed about political violence. Remember this is the man who invited his followers to beat up protesters at this rally.

This thread has been illuminating; it has brought out several posters' true colors. Shame on them

amish rob
08-14-2017, 08:52 AM
There was a White Supremacist rally at the free speech area of the last college I attended. This would have been the 90s.

More anti than actual White Supremacists showed up to protest, but there was no violence. Just angry words. The racist cats got shouted down in public. Boo! Boo!

Twenty odd years ago people didn't show up to demonstrate or protest dressed in riot gear.

Peace,
Robert

Garret
08-14-2017, 08:56 AM
There was a White Supremacist rally at the free speech area of the last college I attended. This would have been the 90s.

More anti than actual White Supremacists showed up to protest, but there was no violence. Just angry words. The racist cats got shouted down in public. Boo! Boo!

Twenty odd years ago people didn't show up to demonstrate or protest dressed in riot gear.

Peace,
Robert

The bolded part is what I find most disturbing. To my little brain, it makes it very clear that the vile ones were expecting a fight & even looking forward to it. Every one wearing gear like that should be arrested I think.

ishmael
08-14-2017, 08:57 AM
Garret,

So what would you do with people who hold such beliefs? Read further in my post, and you'll see I advocated for a mechanism to dis-arm them before the rally.

Chris,

Don't blame me for Trump. I couldn't stomach either candidate and wrote in Hal, the computer from "2001". The reasons for why we got those two candidates have been discussed ad nauseam, but...it's a free country so have at it if you wish.

Garret
08-14-2017, 09:17 AM
Garret,

So what would you do with people who hold such beliefs? Read further in my post, and you'll see I advocated for a mechanism to dis-arm them before the rally.

...

They have a right to assemble (as I said above). What I most dislike is how they came prepared to do battle: riot gear, guns, etc. While I 'spose they could argue that they can wear whatever they like, I see no reason for guns & also none for helmets, shields & other weapons (like the brass knuckles). Wearing this gear was 100% to intimidate.

ishmael
08-14-2017, 09:26 AM
Then we're in agreement, Garret.

Gerarddm
08-14-2017, 09:27 AM
Every equivocation uttered here in support of our current president brands that person as a
" running dog " as the Chinese Communists used to say. More colorful than lap dog.

TomF
08-14-2017, 09:31 AM
They have a right to assemble (as I said above). What I most dislike is how they came prepared to do battle: riot gear, guns, etc. While I 'spose they could argue that they can wear whatever they like, I see no reason for guns & also none for helmets, shields & other weapons (like the brass knuckles). Wearing this gear was 100% to intimidate.Wearing the gear to a White Supremacist rally would have been enough, in Canada, to be charged with various weapons offences. Our weapons laws specifically prohibit things which the legislators deemed were only really for anti-human use (e.g. brass knuckles), and the legal possession of various other things (e.g. big staves of wood used as "flag standards," shields) is dependent on your context. It's perfectly fine for me to wander about with my 18" kukri if I'm using it to limb a fallen tree, but not if I'm going to a contentious political rally. The police would ask some significant questions if I took a hockey stick to that political rally too, especially if a whole pile of us took them with the intention of using them for "personal defence."

I will be interested to see how the ensuing policing efforts play out. The Vancouver riots following a hockey game some years back led to a whole lot of people being charged with various rioting offences - because we live in an age now where people's faces are photographed as they do this stuff. It would take quite a bit of time for police services to go through the incredible amount of video of these skirmishes, but it's not like there is any lack of video evidence of people's identities and actions.

Keith Wilson
08-14-2017, 09:31 AM
I'm sorry, but neo-Nazis and white supremacists ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. Yes, they have a legal right to their odious opinions and cannot be prosecuted for them, but we have no obligation to welcome them. Yes, fascist violence is a problem, but so are the ideas that inspire it.

George Jung
08-14-2017, 09:32 AM
This President/Administration has, undoubtedly, encouraged the racists/neo-nazi's/ bigots to 'come out of their closet'; they are emboldened, and I've had the misfortune of a few exchanges with them. And make no mistake - they'd like to have kicked my butt - but although I'm not particularly threatening in stature, they don't have much interest in 'one on one', preferring, like most bullies, to have numbers on their side.

Call 'em on their BS. Most can't back up anything they 'believe' in, most are dumb as posts.

The internet has, unfortunately, enabled many of them to 'show their true colors' - they can say what they want, without fear of a poke in the nose.

Peerie Maa
08-14-2017, 09:32 AM
They have a right to assemble (as I said above). What I most dislike is how they came prepared to do battle: riot gear, guns, etc. While I 'spose they could argue that they can wear whatever they like, I see no reason for guns & also none for helmets, shields & other weapons (like the brass knuckles). Wearing this gear was 100% to intimidate.

Just so



Mind you, if it had been in the UK if any marchers turned up in helmets with clubs and or riot shields, they would have been corralled and arrested so fast that their feet would not have touched the ground.

Cross post with TomF

peb
08-14-2017, 09:34 AM
I have not read this whole thread, apologies in advance if this is redundant. 50-150 years ago, KKK members always wore white hoods, to hide their identity. Today, these guys don't even care if you know who they are. There is no shame.

Trump's remarks about many groups is rightly being condemned by many. The GOP establishment will abandon him now. He will soon be a president without a party.

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

George Jung
08-14-2017, 09:34 AM
Wearing the gear to a White Supremacist rally would have been enough, in Canada, to be charged with various weapons offences. Our weapons laws specifically prohibit things which the legislators deemed were only really for anti-human use (e.g. brass knuckles), and the legal possession of various other things (e.g. big staves of wood used as "flag standards," shields) is dependent on your context. It's perfectly fine for me to wander about with my 18" kukri if I'm using it to limb a fallen tree, but not if I'm going to a contentious political rally. The police would ask some significant questions if I took a hockey stick to that political rally too, especially if a whole pile of us took them with the intention of using them for "personal defence."

I will be interested to see how the ensuing policing efforts play out. The Vancouver riots following a hockey game some years back led to a whole lot of people being charged with various rioting offences - because we live in an age now where people's faces are photographed as they do this stuff. It would take quite a bit of time for police services to go through the incredible amount of video of these skirmishes, but it's not like there is any lack of video evidence of people's identities and actions.

I don't recall the source (might've seen on this forum? Ah, well...) but a few folk have taken to identifying the miscreants, and notifying their employers. Heads have been, and will continue to be, lopped off. So... there's that.

George Jung
08-14-2017, 09:37 AM
I have not read this whole thread, apologies in advance if this is redundant. 50-150 years ago, KKK members always wore white hoods, to hide their identity. Today, these guys don't even care if you know who they are. There is no shame.

Trump's remarks about many groups is rightly being condemned by many. The GOP establishment will abandon him now. He will soon be a president without a party.

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

I got the impression Trump - and his 'inner circle' - don't consider themselves Republicans, and in fact seem to be purging the regulars of the GOP from their sanctum. Remaking 'the party' in his own image seems his aim? I would've thought this unacheivable - but today, anything seems possible.

Garret
08-14-2017, 09:46 AM
I don't recall the source (might've seen on this forum? Ah, well...) but a few folk have taken to identifying the miscreants, and notifying their employers. Heads have been, and will continue to be, lopped off. So... there's that.

Yep - one article: https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2017/08/13/charlottesville-white-supremacist-protesters-identified/104574142/

jack grebe
08-14-2017, 09:48 AM
I don't recall the source (might've seen on this forum? Ah, well...) but a few folk have taken to identifying the miscreants, and notifying their employers. Heads have been, and will continue to be, lopped off. So... there's that.
Nothing like stalking someone, that could also be taken as harassment.

Giving them an audience is what they truly want....... Why counter protest at all.
Let them walk down empty streets,

Tom Wilkinson
08-14-2017, 09:52 AM
I have not read this whole thread, apologies in advance if this is redundant. 50-150 years ago, KKK members always wore white hoods, to hide their identity. Today, these guys don't even care if you know who they are. There is no shame.

Trump's remarks about many groups is rightly being condemned by many. The GOP establishment will abandon him now. He will soon be a president without a party.

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

I'm not so sure about that.

jack grebe
08-14-2017, 09:53 AM
He will soon be the president of the trump party.......

Peerie Maa
08-14-2017, 09:56 AM
Nothing like stalking someone, that could also be taken as harassment.

Giving them an audience is what they truly want....... Why counter protest at all.
Let them walk down empty streets,

Do you think that will make them reconsider their bigotry?

Letting their employers and social circle into the facts and letting them decide whether they want to continue to be associated with the bigots is doing a public service.
If you had CCTV of a thief stealing from you, would you refrain from putting it on social media to try to identify them?

TomF
08-14-2017, 09:58 AM
Nothing like stalking someone, that could also be taken as harassment.

Giving them an audience is what they truly want....... Why counter protest at all.
Let them walk down empty streets,It is the same principle as publishing photos of men who use prostitutes. "Shame the Johns" actions have helped clean up a lot of neighbourhoods.

George Jung
08-14-2017, 09:59 AM
It's tough, keeping your stripes hidden.