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Ian McColgin
07-25-2017, 09:21 AM
Trump does not share the general press respect for this boy's privacy.

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Jared Kushner did very well yesterday in proving he did not collude with the Russians. Witch Hunt. Next up, 11 year old Barron Trump!
6:52 AM - 25 Jul 2017

Norman Bernstein
07-25-2017, 09:26 AM
I certainly hope that the press leaves the kid alone....

...he has enough of a burden to bear, being the 11 year old son of a 70 year old father who is an embarrassment to millions of Americans. I feel truly sorry for the kid... what kind of life can he possibly have?

S.V. Airlie
07-25-2017, 09:28 AM
I certainly hope that the press leaves the kid alone....

...he has enough of a burden to bear, being the 11 year old son of a 70 year old father who is an embarrassment to millions of Americans. I feel truly sorry for the kid... what kind of life can he possibly have?Being autistic, and I think he is, doesn't help either! I just feel sorry for him.

Norman Bernstein
07-25-2017, 09:37 AM
Being autistic, and I think he is, doesn't help either! I just feel sorry for him.

You would have NO way to know that to be true... and I think it's reckless speculation.

S.V. Airlie
07-25-2017, 09:46 AM
You would have NO way to know that to be true... and I think it's reckless speculation.No, just his behavior. He doesn't act like a ten year old and Melanie is very protective of him. Moreso than most parents are.

S.V. Airlie
07-25-2017, 09:51 AM
Supported by research grants (https://science.grants.autismspeaks.org/search/results.php?newsearch=1&source%5B%5D=science&status%5B%5D=both&search=iCARE&title%5B%5D=&investigator%5B%5D=&postal_code%5B%5D=&distance=100+miles) from Autism Speaks, the iCare team looked at autism rates among 5,766,794 children – including more than 30,000 with autism – in Denmark, Israel, Norway, Sweden and Western Australia. The children were born between 1985 and 2004. The researchers followed up on their development between 2004 and 2009, checking national health records for autism diagnoses.
In their analysis, the researchers identified and controlled for other age-related influences that might affect autism risk. When separating the influence of mother’s versus father’s age, they also adjusted for the potential influence of the other parent’s age.
“After finding that paternal age, maternal age and parental-age gaps all influence autism risk independently, we calculated which aspect was most important,” Dr. Sandin adds. “It turned out to be parental age, though age gaps also contribute significantly.”
Specifically the study found:
* Autism rates were 66 percent higher among children born to dads over 50 years of age than among those born to dads in their 20s. Autism rates were 28 percent higher when dads were in their 40s versus 20s.
* Autism rates were 18 percent higher among children born to teen moms than among those born to moms in their 20s.
* Autism rates were 15 percent higher in children born to mothers in their 40s, compared to those born to moms in their 20s
* Autism rates rose still higher when both parents were older, in line with what one would expect if each parent’s age contributed to risk.
* Autism rates also rose with widening gaps between two parents’ ages. These rates were highest when dads were between 35 and 44 years old and their partners were 10 or more years younger. Conversely, rates rose when moms were in their 30s and their partners were 10 or more years younger.
The higher risk associated with fathers over 50 is consistent with the idea that genetic mutations in sperm increase with a man’s age and that these mutations can contribute to the development of autism. By contrast, the risk factors associated with a mother’s age remain unexplained, as do those associated with a wide gap between a mother and father’s age.
“These results suggest that multiple mechanisms are contributing to the association between parental age and ASD risk,” the authors conclude.
“When we first reported that older age of fathers increases risk for autism, we suggested that mutations might be the cause,” notes co-author Abraham Reichenberg. “Genetic research later showed that this hypothesis was correct. In this study, we show for the first time that autism risk is associated with disparately aged parents. Future research should look into this in order to understand the mechanisms.” Dr. Reichenberg is a neuropsychologist and epidemiologist with the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, in New York City.
https://www.autismspeaks.org/sites/default/files/docs/mssng_200_0.jpgSuch answers are among the goals of the Autism Speaks MSSNG (https://www.mss.ng/)project (pronounced "missing"). MSSNG, the world's largest autism whole genome sequencing initiative, is providing the autism research community with the genomic data and tools needed to find the causes and potential individualized treatments of autism. Learn more about MSSNG here (https://www.mss.ng/).

AlanMc
07-25-2017, 09:59 AM
oh wow. so this is where we're going?

Rich Jones
07-25-2017, 10:05 AM
Whether the child is autistic or not is none of our concern. My wife was a special ed teacher for over 30 years and our daughter has taught autistic children. The spectrum runs all the way from Dustin Huffman's 'Rain Man' to barely perceivable to the untrained eye. He does appear a bit 'off', but it could be simple shyness in the spotlight.
My concern is DT using his son in a political tweet. As I mentioned on an earlier thread this morning, nothing is out of bounds with this depraved man.

S.V. Airlie
07-25-2017, 10:08 AM
oh wow. so this is where we're going?I hope NOT! I said the media should leave him alone and, in my opinion, he appears to be autistic and has enough issues to deal with. Norman came down on me and I posted a response from an article dealing with autism and older parents. My point IS leave him alone!

Nicholas Scheuer
07-25-2017, 10:42 AM
Joining the Boy Scouts might be good for Barron. No! Wait! Never mind!

TomF
07-25-2017, 11:02 AM
Note who brought 11 year old Baron's name up, twittering it out there as so much red meat. Yes, I hope that the media ignores it.

Where are the Republicans who ought to be guarding the boy's privacy? Are any going to call out POTUS for the execrable tactic of using his child as bait? Or will they only pounce when some dipsh!t Dem takes that bait and writes something in a column about the poor kid?

mmd
07-25-2017, 11:14 AM
Quote: "...they only pounce when some dipsh!t Dem takes that bait..." - TomF

You are pretty quick on the uptake, Tom.

Norman Bernstein
07-25-2017, 12:25 PM
He does appear a bit 'off', but it could be simple shyness in the spotlight.

Based on what? Barely a handful of glimpses, trailing behind his father or mother, at a photo-op?

This is absurd... there is absolutely NO basis for such an outrageous 'remote diagnosis', made by people unqualified to make ANY diagnosis.

I don't know what the kid is like, and neither does anyone else... and a few looks at his face say absolutely nothing. Some people here say 'leave the kid alone', but STILL try to make the accusation of autism... I say, "Leave the kid alone, and you have no right to make ANY such judgment about autism."

AlanMc
07-25-2017, 12:31 PM
agreed with norman

Canoeyawl
07-25-2017, 12:32 PM
He does appear a bit 'off'-


The apple doesn't fall far from the tree... Does anyone think Donald himself wasn't a very strange kid?

S.V. Airlie
07-25-2017, 12:34 PM
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree... Does anyone think Donald himself wasn't a very strange kid?Well, his parents couldn't handle him which is why they sent him to some military school

George Jung
07-25-2017, 12:35 PM
The takeaway seems to be 'don't take the bait'.

We all know Trump is a POS

AlanMc
07-25-2017, 12:39 PM
Strange universe.




while that video is real, the news regarding it is as fake as it gets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsaB3ynIZH4

Canoeyawl
07-25-2017, 12:45 PM
Well, his parents couldn't handle him which is why they sent him to some military school

"Handling" children by demanding at a young age such an abstact and conflicting concept as military precision, subordination with unflinching discipline has been the demise of many a childhood.

The case can be argued that it is the parents that need "handling". Children can spot hypocrisy a mile away.

Garret
07-25-2017, 02:43 PM
Damnit - leave Barron out of it. His life is his life & none of our business. His siblings, on the other hand, are involved with the administration & therefore are fair game.

We do not have to stoop to Trumps level.

Rich Jones
07-25-2017, 03:03 PM
Based on what? Barely a handful of glimpses, trailing behind his father or mother, at a photo-op?

This is absurd... there is absolutely NO basis for such an outrageous 'remote diagnosis', made by people unqualified to make ANY diagnosis.

I don't know what the kid is like, and neither does anyone else... and a few looks at his face say absolutely nothing. Some people here say 'leave the kid alone', but STILL try to make the accusation of autism... I say, "Leave the kid alone, and you have no right to make ANY such judgment about autism." I'm not making any statements about the child other then he appears a bit shy or sullen. Where in my post did I make a judgement about autism? The term "off" was not meant to imply autism.

Ted Hoppe
07-25-2017, 04:32 PM
Question:

If there was something out of the normal range with Trump's son, would Trump ever be able to adequate verbalize the challenges thier family was facing and be able to to speak about similar children who were also inflicted in that light?

AlanMc
07-25-2017, 04:48 PM
Question:

If there was something out of the normal range with Trump's son, would Trump ever be able to adequate verbalize the challenges thier family was facing and be able to to speak about similar children who were also inflicted in that light?


are you sure this is what you want to roll with considering the nature of your jab?

switters
07-25-2017, 04:58 PM
Classic. :d

Gerarddm
07-25-2017, 05:01 PM
If his father's other sons are any example, young Barron is doomed. Poor kid. Never had a chance.

skuthorp
07-25-2017, 05:06 PM
This thread is distinctly off, and should be closed despite the fact that Donald brought the matter up.
please.

Tom Montgomery
07-25-2017, 05:11 PM
The takeaway seems to be 'don't take the bait'.

We all know Trump is a POSAnd that ladies and gentlemen is how low the American body politic has sunk. We all know the President of the United States of America is a POS.

KMacDonald
07-25-2017, 05:22 PM
Being autistic, and I think he is, doesn't help either! I just feel sorry for him.

Nope. IQ estimated at 136.
https://mainerepublicemailalert.com/2017/05/21/barron-trumps-iq-will-make-you-shiver/

peb
07-25-2017, 05:40 PM
I suppose Trump is getting an ear full from his wife

KMacDonald
07-25-2017, 05:43 PM
Being autistic, and I think he is, doesn't help either! I just feel sorry for him.


Wild accusations from the left have become the norm around here. Even 11 year olds are not off limits. A new low even for the bilge.

skuthorp
07-25-2017, 05:48 PM
Wild accusations from the left have become the norm around here. Even 11 year olds are not off limits. A new low even for the bilge.
Eh?

"Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Jared Kushner did very well yesterday in proving he did not collude with the Russians. Witch Hunt. Next up, 11 year old Barron Trump!
6:52 AM - 25 Jul 2017"

Chris Smith porter maine
07-25-2017, 05:55 PM
Please close this!

mmd
07-25-2017, 06:08 PM
Yes. For gawd's sakes, you people! You must have something of more importance to argue over, such as is, or is not, water wet?

Rich Jones
07-25-2017, 06:44 PM
Nope. IQ estimated at 136.
https://mainerepublicemailalert.com/2017/05/21/barron-trumps-iq-will-make-you-shiver/ I'd comment on this, not about Barron, but about autism, but don't want to get blasted.

Ted Hoppe
07-25-2017, 07:40 PM
are you sure this is what you want to roll with considering the nature of your jab?

Presidential Families have always been off limits for those who hold office but when the family is openly promoted as a huge corporate marketing brand with real revenues tied to the high elected office - the subjects and characters of those in the Trump family can be observed upon. What many are suggesting here is that trump can have it both ways in that he can both profit from marketing his families goods and services through careful promotion of individuals who surround the president yet remain untouchable when it calls to family criticism and personal observations via the wide eyed media. His and his families financial wellbeing as a celebrities directly tied to the family characters and the roles they play - something quite unprecedented in all of American history. It is unfortunate that an 11 year old is subject to such conjecture but then again he is part of the family brand as is his older brothers and sisters are as well as past spouses and other relations who do profit from this presidential media business venture.

Let's further put this into context: consider and examine the cruelty and lack of tack from candidate and now President Trump who verbalizes hatred to the disabled and folks of color, actively demeans women, spreads ignorance among his numerous public lies, undermines his own people from lawfully carrying out their job duties, is distorting science against the facts and willfully harms nature, seeks to remove the tenuous economics of the poorest of this nations, continually dishonors the office which he was elected and on and on. But if we forget that the Trump legacy is a media brand first and Americas first family second we loose sight of their true undemocratic and anti republic ambitions this family is subjecting this country.

Perhaps we should delete this thread and instead consider the hostility levels these last six months were raised under a most uncompassionate man, neglector to the greater good and feckless weak-minded leader we have seen in a long time.

Consider this President and the genre he and his family come from: From Wiki

Reality television is a genre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre) of television programming (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_program) that documents supposedly unscripted real-life situations, and often features an otherwise unknown cast of individuals who are typically not professional actors, although in some shows celebrities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity)may participate. It differs from documentary television (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_documentary) in that the focus tends to be on drama, personal conflict, and entertainment rather than educating viewers. An early term for the format was docu-soap.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_television#cite_note-1) The genre has various standard tropes, including "confessionals" (also called talking heads or interview segments) used by cast members to express their thoughts, which often double as the shows' narration. In competition-based reality shows, a notable subset, there are other common elements such as one participant being eliminated per episode, a panel of judges, and the concept of "immunity from elimination."Reality television has faced significant criticism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_reality_television) since its rise in popularity. Much of the criticism has centered on the use of the word "reality", and such shows' attempt to present themselves as a straightforward recounting of events that have occurred. Critics have argued that reality television shows do not accurately reflect reality, in ways both implicit (participants being placed in artificial situations), and deceptive or even fraudulent, such as misleading editing, participants being coached in what to say or how to behave, storylines generated ahead of time, and scenes being staged or re-staged for the cameras. Other criticisms of reality television shows include that they are intended to humiliate or exploit participants (particularly on competition shows); that they make stars out of either untalented people unworthy of fame, infamous personalities, or both; and that they glamorize vulgarity and materialism.

B_B
07-25-2017, 09:15 PM
Supported by research grants (https://science.grants.autismspeaks.org/search/results.php?newsearch=1&source%5B%5D=science&status%5B%5D=both&search=iCARE&title%5B%5D=&investigator%5B%5D=&postal_code%5B%5D=&distance=100+miles) from Autism Speaks, the iCare team looked at autism rates among 5,766,794 children – including more than 30,000 with autism – in Denmark, Israel, Norway, Sweden and Western Australia. The children were born between 1985 and 2004. The researchers followed up on their development between 2004 and 2009, checking national health records for autism diagnoses.
In their analysis, the researchers identified and controlled for other age-related influences that might affect autism risk. When separating the influence of mother’s versus father’s age, they also adjusted for the potential influence of the other parent’s age.
“After finding that paternal age, maternal age and parental-age gaps all influence autism risk independently, we calculated which aspect was most important,” Dr. Sandin adds. “It turned out to be parental age, though age gaps also contribute significantly.”
Specifically the study found:
* Autism rates were 66 percent higher among children born to dads over 50 years of age than among those born to dads in their 20s. Autism rates were 28 percent higher when dads were in their 40s versus 20s.
* Autism rates were 18 percent higher among children born to teen moms than among those born to moms in their 20s.
* Autism rates were 15 percent higher in children born to mothers in their 40s, compared to those born to moms in their 20s
* Autism rates rose still higher when both parents were older, in line with what one would expect if each parent’s age contributed to risk.
* Autism rates also rose with widening gaps between two parents’ ages. These rates were highest when dads were between 35 and 44 years old and their partners were 10 or more years younger. Conversely, rates rose when moms were in their 30s and their partners were 10 or more years younger.
The higher risk associated with fathers over 50 is consistent with the idea that genetic mutations in sperm increase with a man’s age and that these mutations can contribute to the development of autism. By contrast, the risk factors associated with a mother’s age remain unexplained, as do those associated with a wide gap between a mother and father’s age.
“These results suggest that multiple mechanisms are contributing to the association between parental age and ASD risk,” the authors conclude.
“When we first reported that older age of fathers increases risk for autism, we suggested that mutations might be the cause,” notes co-author Abraham Reichenberg. “Genetic research later showed that this hypothesis was correct. In this study, we show for the first time that autism risk is associated with disparately aged parents. Future research should look into this in order to understand the mechanisms.” Dr. Reichenberg is a neuropsychologist and epidemiologist with the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, in New York City.
https://www.autismspeaks.org/sites/default/files/docs/mssng_200_0.jpgSuch answers are among the goals of the Autism Speaks MSSNG (https://www.mss.ng/)project (pronounced "missing"). MSSNG, the world's largest autism whole genome sequencing initiative, is providing the autism research community with the genomic data and tools needed to find the causes and potential individualized treatments of autism. Learn more about MSSNG here (https://www.mss.ng/).
This is utter nonsense. Autism is caused by the MMR vaccine, just ask Jenny McCarthy.

skuthorp
07-25-2017, 09:17 PM
deleted

Joe (SoCal)
07-25-2017, 09:20 PM
Nope. IQ estimated at 136.
https://mainerepublicemailalert.com/2017/05/21/barron-trumps-iq-will-make-you-shiver/

My niece is asperger's "AF" and would burry Barron in an IQ test.
Social cues not so good.

I do however think he should be off limits even if his father keeps using him.

Vince Brennan
07-25-2017, 09:44 PM
Ian. Be a mensch and drop this thread.

I know you didn't intend to have such a shyte-storm engender itself on a casual remark, dat not be the dude what you usually is, and deleting the O.P. will help clear a lot of air.

If the howling horde want to keep it up, that's on them.

YMMV, mine is fairly constant on this one.


(Resp's to The Lady!)

Ian McColgin
07-25-2017, 09:58 PM
Trump made his son a political tool. I rather wish that liberals could simply note that, perhaps with some sympathy that that the lad must grow up surrounded by such gaudy poor taste.

But . . .

I don't delete or close threads. Comments are revealing, even when revolting.

Vince Brennan
07-25-2017, 10:33 PM
Like I said, YMMV. Obviously it does here.

Lew Barrett
07-25-2017, 10:49 PM
Since we're discussing family, I think it's pretty clear that none of this has been good for Trump's marriage. I suspect it will not survive the ordeal of Trump's presidency and almost certainly would not survive impeachment proceedings. I hope for Baron's sake that Melania is as dedicated to him as Diana was to her sons. I make no comparison of the two beyond the awkward position that both women find themselves in. In other respects Melania seems entirely unengaged whereas Diana was Diana.

What a circus.

jack grebe
07-25-2017, 10:49 PM
I don't delete or close threads. Comments are revealing, even when revolting.

But this is not a thread Ian....... It's a troll, and one in Very poor taste.

B_B
07-25-2017, 11:40 PM
... Baron's ...
Two rrrs bud, Barron.

Baron is a title and thus not eligible for names. There was a footbaw player a while back called Sirr Parker - his momma wanted to name him Sir so everyone would have to show her son respect, but the authorities don't allow Titles to be used as names - i.e. no Doctor Barrett's unless they go to Med School or earn their Ph.D.

Canoeyawl
07-26-2017, 01:51 AM
Doktor Barrett?

Lew Barrett
07-26-2017, 08:22 AM
Herr Doktor Barrett!

KMacDonald
07-26-2017, 10:27 AM
Since we're discussing family, I think it's pretty clear that none of this has been good for Trump's marriage. I suspect it will not survive the ordeal of Trump's presidency and almost certainly would not survive impeachment proceedings. I hope for Baron's sake that Melania is as dedicated to him as Diana was to her sons. I make no comparison of the two beyond the awkward position that both women find themselves in. In other respects Melania seems entirely unengaged whereas Diana was Diana.



What a circus.

Predicting a marriage failure, of a president no less, is pretty low. You guys need to get over your loss. He Won! He Won! He Won!

TomF
07-26-2017, 10:38 AM
Predicting a marriage failure, of a president no less, is pretty low. You guys need to get over your loss. He Won! He Won! He Won!Might I gently remind you of the kind and generous words said about people named "Clinton?" And the health of and mutual attraction within that marriage?

Observing that Melania is probably having a difficult time is not the same as hoping for a divorce.

KMacDonald
07-26-2017, 01:22 PM
Might I gently remind you of the kind and generous words said about people named "Clinton?" And the health of and mutual attraction within that marriage?

Observing that Melania is probably having a difficult time is not the same as hoping for a divorce.

No. Every wish is answered, and then some.

TomF
07-26-2017, 02:20 PM
Bollocks.

Glen Longino
07-26-2017, 04:32 PM
No. Every wish is answered, and then some.

Ha! Gobbledygook!
It's a hoot watching you call anything "too low" and grebe call any thread "in Very poor taste"!
You two hombres are Very far from the arbiters of taste and propriety!:D

KMacDonald
07-26-2017, 06:11 PM
Grebe and I have impeccable taste.;)

TomF
07-26-2017, 06:28 PM
Starkist poster boys. :D

KMacDonald
07-26-2017, 06:30 PM
Starkist poster boys. :D
Jealousy is an ugly.:p

Glen Longino
07-26-2017, 06:30 PM
:):)Yep! That's what I meant to say!:)

G.Sherman
07-26-2017, 06:46 PM
You would have NO way to know that to be true... and I think it's reckless speculation.
His father is clearly retarded, so why can't the boy be autistic. Nothing quite explains Melania's behavior.

TomF
07-26-2017, 06:48 PM
She has billions of reasons.

jack grebe
07-26-2017, 07:30 PM
Ha! Gobbledygook!
It's a hoot watching you call anything "too low" and grebe call any thread "in Very poor taste"!
You two hombres are Very far from the arbiters of taste and propriety!:D


I think I have very good taste...... I am one of the most Senior posters here and have never
Had my tastes result in a time out........

How many here can say the same? I believe I am in very good company when it comes
To those that can say yes to that.

KMacDonald
07-26-2017, 07:32 PM
I think I have very good taste...... I am one of the most Senior posters here and have never
Had my tastes result in a time out........

How many here can say the same? I believe I am in very good company when it comes
To those that can say yes to that.

I can.:d

Glen Longino
07-26-2017, 08:02 PM
I can!:D

TomF
07-26-2017, 08:05 PM
Never a time out, Jack. We're practically twins.

Garret
07-26-2017, 08:07 PM
Never a time out, Jack. We're practically twins.

Triplets!

B_B
07-26-2017, 08:11 PM
She has billions of reasons.
She THINKS she has billions of reasons...

TomF
07-26-2017, 08:27 PM
The precedent has been set for quite a few millions, and there is a good shot she'll outlive him, and split the pot with the First Daughter and the thuggish boys.

jack grebe
07-26-2017, 09:01 PM
Never a time out, Jack. We're practically twins.



Triplets!

Yep, very good company..........

Lew Barrett
07-26-2017, 09:05 PM
Grebe and I have impeccable taste.;)

You in cars
Grebe in cigars
Beyond that
no cattle, all hat

Beyond that, Tom answered for me. It's an observation that I am hardly the first to have made or commented on. It's impossible to make any comments regarding Trump that are cruder than the man himself. You come wafted on a gentle breeze as an arbiter of taste and easy manners, a beacon to the better angels of us all. To teach us civility and manners is your purpose here is it not?

B_B
07-26-2017, 09:27 PM
The precedent has been set for quite a few millions, and there is a good shot she'll outlive him, and split the pot with the First Daughter and the thuggish boys.
illions with an M I totally agree, illions with a B, I doubt it.

KMacDonald
07-26-2017, 10:22 PM
Quadruplets!

Garret
07-27-2017, 05:40 AM
Quadruplets!

I believe you've been to banned camp - no?

KMacDonald
07-27-2017, 06:46 AM
I believe you've been to banned camp - no?

Don't be ridiculous!!!!!

Vince Brennan
07-27-2017, 08:42 AM
You come wafted on a gentle breeze as an arbiter of taste and easy manners, a beacon to the better angels of us all. To teach us civility and manners is your purpose here is it not?

I thought you stopped smoking ?

mmd
07-27-2017, 08:45 AM
He's stopped smoking cannabis flowers, but is now imbibing in Lotus blooms... <grin>

B_B
07-27-2017, 09:42 AM
I thought you stopped smoking ?


He's stopped smoking cannabis flowers, but is now imbibing in Lotus blooms... <grin>

Poor fellow was stuck in a confined space with Pless - recovery takes a while <fart>

Lew Barrett
07-27-2017, 10:54 AM
I thought you stopped smoking ?

I have, and so has Jack. But before I quit and after he did, he sent me the last of his stash. Hence, my rhyme!

Lew Barrett
07-27-2017, 10:55 AM
He's stopped smoking cannabis flowers, but is now imbibing in Lotus blooms... <grin>

I still enjoy both of those but tabacci is out. The roots of the Lotus are frequently used in salads. The tires of the Lotus form a fine dust that can be sprinkled over ice cream if you don't plan to eat the ice cream!