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Glen Longino
06-29-2017, 06:50 PM
Are you convinced now, you danged atheists?:)
https://youtu.be/FxBASNmg4AY

Ian McColgin
06-29-2017, 06:59 PM
He had me at the parentheses of the parameters, or visa versa: an empirical argument for unintelligent design.

Glen Longino
06-29-2017, 07:05 PM
:)His fervor alone had me!:)

Chris Coose
06-29-2017, 07:15 PM
If I got that Lamborghini delivered to my driveway, I'd believe in god.

amish rob
06-29-2017, 07:20 PM
What did he just convince me of? Whatever it is, I know I need to join Facebook, now!

Peace,
Robert

Phil Y
06-29-2017, 08:45 PM
Proof right there that evolution is an imperfect process.

David G
06-29-2017, 09:01 PM
Operating on faith means one can remain ignorant.

And ignorance can breed arrogance. OK... let's be kind, and call it 'an overblown perception of one's grasp of the facts'. See Dunning-Kruger.

LeeG
06-29-2017, 09:44 PM
Fxctard

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
06-30-2017, 03:37 AM
It took him more than 3 minutes.

lupussonic
06-30-2017, 04:52 AM
I lasted about 30 seconds.

He doesn't believe in something he doesn't understand.

isla
06-30-2017, 05:32 AM
But it's so easy to just believe in God. How did all this come into being? It was God's work. Uh, OK.

Phew, so now I don't have to spend years studying Biology or Physics or Geology, or God forbid, Genetics. All that X-Y chromosome stuff, nah, that's way too complicated. Where's the nearest church (so long as it's not a mosque)?

Peerie Maa
06-30-2017, 05:38 AM
But it's so easy to just believe in God. How did all this come into being? It was God's work. Uh, OK.

Phew, so now I don't have to spend years studying Biology or Physics or Geology, or God forbid, Genetics. All that X-Y chromosome stuff, nah, that's way too complicated. Where's the nearest church (so long as it's not a mosque)?

Which of the 2900 odd gods would that be? And where did he/she/it come from? This poses more questions, Known unknowns and God knows how many Unknown unknowns.

TomF
06-30-2017, 05:44 AM
But... where did all the stuff come from to go "bang" in the first place?

Recently I heard firmly atheistic approaches to the origins and development of the universe as "Give me just one big, free miracle, and I'll take it from there." :D

For all that I think "creationism" is amazing hokum.

isla
06-30-2017, 05:46 AM
Which of the 2900 odd gods would that be? And where did he/she/it come from? This poses more questions, Known unknowns and God knows how many Unknown unknowns.

Of course God knows :D

lupussonic
06-30-2017, 05:49 AM
This poses more questions

See, that right there is where you're going wrong.

Peerie Maa
06-30-2017, 05:54 AM
But... where did all the stuff come from to go "bang" in the first place?

Recently I heard firmly atheistic approaches to the origins and development of the universe as "Give me just one big, free miracle, and I'll take it from there." :D

For all that I think "creationism" is amazing hokum.

The maths says that it is inevitable, apparently.

TomF
06-30-2017, 06:00 AM
The maths says that it is inevitable, apparently.I thought that the maths only said that if you had all that matter shuffling about anyhow. Periodically it falls into itself, then snaps out in shock like someone over compensating from nodding off to sleep.:D. Rinse and repeat.

The "free miracle" isn't the "snap," it's having something to go "snap" at all.

isla
06-30-2017, 06:44 AM
You could have a belief system in which a transient god creates the matter, perhaps even triggers the big bang, then leaves it to do its thing, creation of the stars, planets, evolution and everything else. This would not translate into a religion, because I think a religion needs a god or deity who has some control over your life, may or may not pay attention to your prayers, and decides what happens after you die. An absent creator would not appeal to people much.

Garth Jones
06-30-2017, 07:00 AM
Once again, somebody who doesn't know what the word 'theory' means in a scientific context. That's as far as I got in the guy's rant. If we could only get lawyers (and TV show writers, etc.) to use 'hypothesis' maybe people would get it. In scientific terms, a theory is a hypothesis that has been shown to be correct by a large amount of observation, study, experimentation, verification, etc. Sigh....

TomF
06-30-2017, 07:00 AM
God doesn't need to be transient to be in the natural laws, rather than constantly flouting them. Does computer code cease to exist because programs are written in it?

Peerie Maa
06-30-2017, 07:25 AM
I thought that the maths only said that if you had all that matter shuffling about anyhow. Periodically it falls into itself, then snaps out in shock like someone over compensating from nodding off to sleep.:D. Rinse and repeat.

The "free miracle" isn't the "snap," it's having something to go "snap" at all.

The maths to which I refer deals with the time before matter exists. Something to do with Quantum Gravity.

Peerie Maa
06-30-2017, 07:27 AM
You could have a belief system in which a transient god creates the matter, perhaps even triggers the big bang, then leaves it to do its thing, creation of the stars, planets, evolution and everything else. This would not translate into a religion, because I think a religion needs a god or deity who has some control over your life, may or may not pay attention to your prayers, and decides what happens after you die. An absent creator would not appeal to people much.

That is a God of the smallest of Gaps. Its as if She clapped her hands to make the BANG, and then wandered off to bake cookies or something.

TomF
06-30-2017, 07:30 AM
The maths to which I refer deals with the time before matter exists. Something to do with Quantum Gravity.
I'd love to attempt to understand it, but have no illusion about my grasp of higher and speculative physics.

Peerie Maa
06-30-2017, 07:42 AM
I'd love to attempt to understand it, but have no illusion about my grasp of higher and speculative physics.

Me too. I take comfort from a line in the book that discussed it;

I have since learned that one doesn't have to understand all of the implications of one's work in order to publish. Indeed there are several of my own most important papers that I only fully understood well after the fact.

TomF
06-30-2017, 07:50 AM
Sounds kinda like faith, in some respects. ;)

John Smith
06-30-2017, 07:56 AM
Was a guy at work who made this argument; that evolution has never been observed. I asked him how mosquitoes became immune to DDT in a few generations, how how antibiotics lose effectiveness.

Since the DDT hadn't changed, the mosquitoes must have.

Peerie Maa
06-30-2017, 07:58 AM
Sounds kinda like faith, in some respects. ;)

Na, the key is "not all" with its corollary "some".

Even though Einstein made his "Biggest Blunder" he was still right, and others followed him to understand more of the implications of his work.

Dave Hadfield
06-30-2017, 08:09 AM
No one knows why the universe exists as it does -- where did matter-and-energy first come from, and why E=MCsquared rather than cubed, or times 6, or the square root of my big toe measured in cubits. Science says What, and How, not Why.

But whatever started it, I've seen no intervention since.

And Evolution has no Grand Design, or internal program towards moral improvement or betterment. If an organism is perfectly suited for an environment, it doesn't change. There are bacteria on this earth that have been mostly unchanged since oxygen arrived in the atmosphere.

Darwin, one of the most rigorous minds ever, spent 23 years trying to find Grand Design, or evidence of an intervening God. That's why he didn't publish, until he got the letter from Wallace. He would have preferred to find the God Who Eases Every Sparrow's Fall.

Instead he found evolution responding to environmental change by means of natural selection. Period. And also the Hunting Wasps, which are the second most prolific type of insect on earth (the first is beetles). Their life pattern is all over the planet, and they reproduce by laying an egg pn the paralyzed body of a grub or spider -- which then gets eaten alive!

It is a whole lot easier to believe than to understand.

beernd
06-30-2017, 08:17 AM
I just akse you the one and only question, did you see thr light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX5tfRdkoY0

TOT, I watch that DVD at least once a year.|:)

TomF
06-30-2017, 08:27 AM
Oh evolution has absolutely been observed. Think of bacterial resistance to antibiotics, as a version we can almost watch in real time.

Peerie Maa
06-30-2017, 08:43 AM
And also the Hunting Wasps, which are the second most prolific type of insect on earth (the first is beetles). Their life pattern is all over the planet, and they reproduce by laying an egg pn the paralyzed body of a grub or spider -- which then gets eaten alive!


Yep, Paley's Watchmaker is a really nasty piece of work.

Lew Barrett
06-30-2017, 09:10 AM
Terrible hat.

David G
06-30-2017, 09:20 AM
https://safr.kingfeatures.com/idn/ck3/content.php?file=aHR0cDovL3NhZnIua2luZ2ZlYXR1cmVzL mNvbS9TaXhDaGl4LzIwMTcvMDYvNkNoaXguMjAxNzA2MzBfMTQ 0MC5naWY=

Jim Bow
06-30-2017, 10:21 AM
https://youtu.be/nlaoR5m4L80

isla
06-30-2017, 01:33 PM
That is a God of the smallest of Gaps. Its as if She clapped her hands to make the BANG, and then wandered off to bake cookies or something.

Our universe, and others, are the cookies. Some other god will come along and eat us by and by.

Wet Feet
06-30-2017, 06:12 PM
I thought that the maths only said that if you had all that matter shuffling about anyhow. Periodically it falls into itself, then snaps out in shock like someone over compensating from nodding off to sleep.:D. Rinse and repeat.

The "free miracle" isn't the "snap," it's having something to go "snap" at all.

Very interesting situation , a bit like the chicken and the egg.

Where did the " free miracle " come from ?

If it was " created " , by what ? , and where did the " what " come from.......?

Tom Montgomery
06-30-2017, 06:41 PM
The internet and YouTube have allowed every moron on the earth to post his opinion.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. As is incomplete knowledge.

There is no point in attempting to correct these idiots. Ridicule is the appropriate response.

Be careful, however. When these morons are forumites ridicule can land you in banned camp. We mustn't be rude don'tcha know?
.

Daniel Noyes
06-30-2017, 06:54 PM
The internet and YouTube have allowed every moron on the earth to post his opinion.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. As is incomplete knowledge.

There is no point in attempting to correct these idiots. Ridicule is the appropriate response.

Be careful, however. When these morons are forumites ridicule can land you in banned camp. We mustn't be rude don'tcha know?
.

who has complete knowledge in regard to the theory of evolution? obviously you are ignorant if you think the theory of Evo is complete.

Vince Brennan
06-30-2017, 07:06 PM
There y'go, Tom!

Me, I ascribe to the "Backfire" theory of creation: An extra-universal spaceship in need of engine work backfired as it passed the area and caused the "Big Bang". Simple!

Certainly as simple as some other opinions. Obviously.

Daniel Noyes
06-30-2017, 07:10 PM
There y'go, Tom!

Me, I ascribe to the "Backfire" theory of creation: An extra-universal spaceship in need of engine work backfired as it passed the area and caused the "Big Bang". Simple!

Certainly as simple as some other opinions. Obviously.

I thought the universe was a steady state and had always existed... "it's only the benighted Christians who believe it had a beginning!" (any Atheist Physicist before 1970's)

TomF
06-30-2017, 07:14 PM
Space farts!

Daniel Noyes
06-30-2017, 07:19 PM
Space farts!

fart

skuthorp
06-30-2017, 07:51 PM
The internet and YouTube have allowed every moron on the earth to post his opinion.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. As is incomplete knowledge.

There is no point in attempting to correct these idiots. Ridicule is the appropriate response.

Be careful, however. When these morons are forumites ridicule can land you in banned camp. We mustn't be rude don'tcha know?
.

Does that include self ridicule, a frequent occurrence amongst some here?.

Ian McColgin
06-30-2017, 08:43 PM
"I thought the universe was a steady state and had always existed... "it's only the benighted Christians who believe it had a beginning!" (any Atheist Physicist before 1970's)" [#40]

Well, some seriously anti-science religious teachers may have taught this in an effort to stunt minds, but Newton's static universe was most seriously challenged in 1927 when a Belgian priest and physicist, Fr Georges Lemaitre, pondered Einstein's relativity and theorized the "Big Bang". Just two years later Hubble's observations confirmed expansion. After WWII, no serious or informed science teacher in grade, junior high, or high school could be so out of it as to teach the old Newtonian model. By college, one might bump into minority theories competing with the Big Bang, like the oscilating modified Big Bang, the multiverse, and others.

But the main point is that the physics of cosmology did not stop a Roman Catholic priest from hypothesizing a cosmology quite radically different from the model that had been first advanced by a deeply Christian (if a bit heterodox, rejecting the doctrine of the Trinity) mathematician. There are scientists who are believers and who are atheists who find all manner of cosmological theories theories persuasive. It's only that none of those theories involve six days.

Daniel Noyes
06-30-2017, 09:48 PM
"I thought the universe was a steady state and had always existed... "it's only the benighted Christians who believe it had a beginning!" (any Atheist Physicist before 1970's)" [#40]

Well, some seriously anti-science religious teachers may have taught this in an effort to stunt minds, but Newton's static universe was most seriously challenged in 1927 when a Belgian priest and physicist, Fr Georges Lemaitre, pondered Einstein's relativity and theorized the "Big Bang". Just two years later Hubble's observations confirmed expansion. After WWII, no serious or informed science teacher in grade, junior high, or high school could be so out of it as to teach the old Newtonian model. By college, one might bump into minority theories competing with the Big Bang, like the oscilating modified Big Bang, the multiverse, and others.

But the main point is that the physics of cosmology did not stop a Roman Catholic priest from hypothesizing a cosmology quite radically different from the model that had been first advanced by a deeply Christian (if a bit heterodox, rejecting the doctrine of the Trinity) mathematician. There are scientists who are believers and who are atheists who find all manner of cosmological theories theories persuasive. It's only that none of those theories involve six days.


the idea that the universe could have a beginning was absurd then revolutionary to Physicists, the most "learned" elite men (because they were all men, a good old boys club) they mocked Christians for believeing in a beginning, with chaos, and the spirit of God over the waters... today the same morons ridicule the creation story... a song written in verse about the creation of the world and life. ( just don't tell the smug haters on this thread that recent DNA data is suggesting the existence of EVE...)

Daniel Noyes
06-30-2017, 09:50 PM
Are you convinced now, you danged atheists?:)
https://youtu.be/FxBASNmg4AY

some people just need someone to make fun of in order to feel BIG themselves.

Glen Longino
06-30-2017, 10:01 PM
some people just need someone to make fun of in order to feel BIG themselves.

Yes, you do!
Why don't you and the guy in the video quit?
You make fools of yourselves, then you blame others for noticing!
REPENT!:)

Daniel Noyes
06-30-2017, 10:03 PM
what is the deal with people making videos in cars any way...? why is this a thing?

sharpiefan
06-30-2017, 10:07 PM
the idea that the universe could have a beginning was absurd then revolutionary to Physicists, the most "learned" elite men (because they were all men, a good old boys club) they mocked Christians for believeing in a beginning, with chaos, and the spirit of God over the waters... today the same morons ridicule the creation story... a song written in verse about the creation of the world and life. ( just don't tell the smug haters on this thread that recent DNA data is suggesting the existence of EVE...)

Citation requested, please.

Glen Longino
06-30-2017, 10:21 PM
"...recent DNA data is suggesting the existence of EVE..."

No, Daniel, it is NOT!
Have you been watching the 700 Club?:)
Where did you hear or read that nonsense?

John Smith
06-30-2017, 10:23 PM
Those who prefer their religious explanations to those of the scientific community might consider not using anything developed by science.

Keith Wilson
06-30-2017, 10:24 PM
Oh, he's probably talking about 'mitochondrial eve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve)', but wildly misunderstanding the concept.

paulf
06-30-2017, 10:48 PM
Oh, he's probably talking about 'mitochondrial eve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve)', but wildly misunderstanding the concept.

Here:
The name "Mitochondrial Eve" alludes to biblical Eve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve).[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve#cite_note-10) This has led to repeated misrepresentations or misconceptions in journalistic accounts on the topic. Unlike her biblical namesake, she was not the only living human female of her time. The title of "Mitochondrial Eve" is not permanently fixed to a single individual, but rather shifts forward in time over the course of human history as the Eve maternal mtDNA lineage becomes extinct. Her female contemporaries, though they may have descendants alive today, no longer have an unbroken female line of ancestors (daughter's daughter's daughter's daughter) connecting them to living people.

Ralphie Boy
06-30-2017, 11:48 PM
Regarding the question "where did all the matter come from (before the Big Bang) ?", I recently listened to an interview with atheist physicist Lawrence Krauss (sp?).

He mentioned that there is a hypothesis that the amount of matter in the universe is equal to the amount of anti-matter in the universe. If this is true then if everything was created at the moment of the Big Bang, this wouldn't violate the principle of Conservation of Energy. So perhaps "something" really could be created from nothing!

That God, she is really talented!

Sky Blue
07-01-2017, 12:00 AM
quantum gravity and a time before matter existed

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/720860/beginning-of-universe-scientists-discover-what-existed-before

Glen Longino
07-01-2017, 12:01 AM
Oh, he's probably talking about 'mitochondrial eve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve)', but wildly misunderstanding the concept.

I suspect you're correct.
I do wish Daniel would be more receptive to reality and less receptive to gobbledygook.

SMARTINSEN
07-01-2017, 12:07 AM
"At first there was nothing, then it exploded." -Terry Pratchett.


This thread makes me wonder if Glen is trolling for SamF. Boy howdy, those were some epic...er...debates. Young Daniel could review the archive and learn from a master.

amish rob
07-01-2017, 12:09 AM
Before the beginning...

was just boring old exposition, anyway. Snore.

Peace,
Wait, When?

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
07-01-2017, 12:56 AM
With his Canadian accent, I would have thought he would have been more intelligent. Y'know, good schools and all. Maybe he's not Canadian. Or maybe, like so many charlatans in the US, he's using his intelligence to bilk people.

Glen Longino
07-01-2017, 01:11 AM
"At first there was nothing, then it exploded." -Terry Pratchett.


This thread makes me wonder if Glen is trolling for SamF. Boy howdy, those were some epic...er...debates. Young Daniel could review the archive and learn from a master.

:) I do miss SamF, but not enough to go trolling for him!:)
I think Daniel lacks Sam's raw intellect!
Sam was absolutely convinced that he was the voice of Almighty God on earth.
Daniel lacks that conviction, and we need to keep it that way for our own sake!:)

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
07-01-2017, 01:18 AM
Everybody hates a know it all.:)

Glen Longino
07-01-2017, 01:23 AM
There is one know it all I don't hate!
Are the brownies done yet?:)

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
07-01-2017, 01:36 AM
Just out of the oven, still warm.

Glen Longino
07-01-2017, 01:47 AM
Gracias!
Be safe, amigo!

sharpiefan
07-01-2017, 05:14 AM
Everybody hates a know it all.:)

https://www.brainyquote.com/photos/i/isaacasimov140809.jpg

Peerie Maa
07-01-2017, 08:21 AM
Regarding the question "where did all the matter come from (before the Big Bang) ?", I recently listened to an interview with atheist physicist Lawrence Krauss (sp?).

He mentioned that there is a hypothesis that the amount of matter in the universe is equal to the amount of anti-matter in the universe. If this is true then if everything was created at the moment of the Big Bang, this wouldn't violate the principle of Conservation of Energy. So perhaps "something" really could be created from nothing!

That God, she is really talented!

Got his book on my shelf. The science is probably dated now as more knowledge is added to the subject, but he did show that before the Big bang and Inflation, the whole shebang could have inevitably happened out of nothing.

Daniel Noyes
07-01-2017, 08:23 AM
"At first there was nothing, then it exploded." -Terry Pratchett.


This thread makes me wonder if Glen is trolling for SamF. Boy howdy, those were some epic...er...debates. Young Daniel could review the archive and learn from a master.


there's no debate here... just some folks looking to feel a bit better about themselves by riduculing others religious beliefs...

Daniel Noyes
07-01-2017, 08:27 AM
Everybody hates a know it all.:)

sooooo true :) I think it's hilarious how a 5 year old in Sunday School has had a better understanding about the essence of the universe and existence than Athiests... for centuries... now they come back and try to pretend like they had it right all along :D legends in their own mind... seldom right but NEVER wrong.

amish rob
07-01-2017, 08:30 AM
Like this was all made just for us?

Like ANY of this is new? Like our Bang was the Big one?

Ha.

This is probably more like the 34th, and fairly Moderate Bang.

Here we go again on the cosmic yo-yo.

Wait. I mean, we All agree we are nothing more than energy, right? Yep. We've all been here, going around in the same circles since whenever, and we'll keep doing it until then.

Peace,
Robert

Daniel Noyes
07-01-2017, 08:38 AM
there seems to be a segment of any population of humans that need to make fun of others, I'm a Christian and I dont go around starting conversations, seeking out oportunitys to make fun of other religions or Atheists, but I know a couple people who are Christians who enjoy that sort of thing, everyone is dealing with different sins.

the folks posting to this thread are the forum members who happen to be Athiests who fall in that subset of the general population that derives a rush or great delight or a feeling of well being by putting down others... I get that... If it were 100 years ago these same people would likely be "Holier than though" type Christians making fun of others. Its just sad and anoying to encounter a bevy of such haters on a Wooden Boat site... where people are supposed too be "cool".

Norman Bernstein
07-01-2017, 08:41 AM
there seems to be a segment of any population of humans that need to make fun of others, I'm a Christian and I dont go around starting conversations, seeking out oportunitys to make fun of other religions or Atheists...

Maybe YOU don't, but there are plenty of 'Christians' who do.


these folks are the forum members who happen to be Athiests who fall in that subset of the general population that derives a rush or great delight or a feeling of well being by putting down others... I get that... its just sad and anoying to encounter a bevy of such folk on a Wooden Boat site... where people are supposed too be "cool".

*lol* And religious people don't ever 'put down' atheists?

Hahahaha!

Peerie Maa
07-01-2017, 08:50 AM
Like this was all made just for us?

Like ANY of this is new? Like our Bang was the Big one?

Ha.

This is probably more like the 34th, and fairly Moderate Bang.

Here we go again on the cosmic yo-yo.

Wait. I mean, we All agree we are nothing more than energy, right? Yep. We've all been here, going around in the same circles since whenever, and we'll keep doing it until then.

Peace,
Robert

The time line of this bounce of the cosmic YO-YO can boggle the mind :D
https://www.sciencealert.com/images/nov-15/unifixed_by_jaysimons-d9ispcc.jpg

https://www.sciencealert.com/this-timeline-shows-the-entire-history-of-the-universe-and-where-it-s-headed

Peerie Maa
07-01-2017, 08:54 AM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=5275815#post5275815)
these folks are the forum members who happen to be Athiests who fall in that subset of the general population that derives a rush or great delight or a feeling of well being by putting down others... I get that... its just sad and anoying to encounter a bevy of such folk on a Wooden Boat site... where people are supposed too be "cool".


I'll never put down anyone for being religious, as it is more than likely hard wired into their make up as is being ginger or being gay.

Bigotry on the other hand . . . .

Peerie Maa
07-01-2017, 09:35 AM
From the Natural History Museum new exhibit,

BIFs were laid down on ocean floors more than two billion years ago. They record a key chemical transition in Earth's history when oxygen started to become abundant.
It was a profound change that would ultimately make complex life - such as the giant cetaceans - possible.
Those wavy lines in the BIF are bands of iron oxide (mostly haematite) interspersed with chert (silica).
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/875F/production/_96755643_wonder-bays-2017-12.jpg Earth's early oceans would have been full of reduced iron in solution that had been washed off the continents, and when it combined with the nascent oxygen being produced by photosynthetic bacteria, the resulting oxides would have precipitated to settle on the seafloor.
The different layers incorporated into the rock probably mark cycles of bacterial boom and bust. Ultimately, all of the right type of iron in the ancient waters was consumed and the free oxygen had nowhere else to go but up and out into the atmosphere.
Earth had become a different place.
"The rock tells a fantastic story," says Prof Richard Herrington, the head of Earth sciences at the NHM.
"This is the prelude to complex life. We're oxygen breathers. An organism needs an energy source and the burning of carbon in the presence of oxygen is largely where we get our energy from. It still took two billion years from this rock to get to multicellular organisms, but that's another story," he told BBC News.

amish rob
07-01-2017, 09:40 AM
Some days, Nick, I feel 13.8 Ga old when I try to get out of bed. :)

I love graphic timelines such as that.

Thanks.

Peace,
Robert

Jim Mahan
07-01-2017, 09:44 AM
That is truly an awesome graphic, Nick. Entirely appropriate use of a morbidly over-used word.

It would be cool to rework the graphic into a horizontal aspect ratio and wrap it around a room just below the crown moulding. Scale it to make a single complete circuit around the perimeter of the viewing space. Or stretch it out and make the turns overlap to form a shallow spiral.

I'm just now getting into the book Sapiens. Humbling and awe-inducing in just the same way. Humanity is like the thin iridium layer which shows up in the geologic strata alround the globe, as evidence of a single cosmic event. It, and we, devasting the entire planet in in a relative instant. Not all humanity, just the single species of homo that survived by being supremely adaptable and exceeding viscious. All of homo sapien's worst problems are self-inflicted, as all of Earth-life's worst problems have been homo sapiens (and the cosmos.) We are like the shrew that, if isolated from other food for just a few hours, will turn and begin eating himself, tail first, until the unsustainable and inevitable suicide by appetite.

---

Peerie Maa
07-01-2017, 09:52 AM
T

It would be cool to rework the graphic into a horizontal aspect ratio and wrap it around a room just below the crown moulding. Scale it to make a single complete circuit around the perimeter of the viewing space. Or stretch it out and make the turns overlap to form a shallow spiral.



---

Perfect for the room where you keep your books and 'puter.

Jim Mahan
07-01-2017, 10:41 AM
Perfect for the room where you keep your books and 'puter.

I once had a room that I lined around with contiguous covers of old National Geographic magazine.

And now that I think about it, right when I bought my boat I found a source for enough geologic survey maps to include the Sacramento Delta and San Francisco Bay, and circumplastered this room with the orientation mostly correctly connected and oriented. I live right near the turning basin at the end of the deep water channel to the Port of Sacramento and I had my boat in the delta at Rio Vista, the plan being to sail, someday, from here to the bay.

The juxtaposition with the cosmos at one remove and my personal geo-moment on the next.

Isn't oxygen a major component of Earth's crust? How does that relate to ancient atmospheric oxygen?

Peerie Maa
07-01-2017, 11:58 AM
I once had a room that I lined around with contiguous covers of old National Geographic magazine.

And now that I think about it, right when I bought my boat I found a source for enough geologic survey maps to include the Sacramento Delta and San Francisco Bay, and circumplastered this room with the orientation mostly correctly connected and oriented. I live right near the turning basin at the end of the deep water channel to the Port of Sacramento and I had my boat in the delta at Rio Vista, the plan being to sail, someday, from here to the bay.

The juxtaposition with the cosmos at one remove and my personal geo-moment on the next.

Isn't oxygen a major component of Earth's crust? How does that relate to ancient atmospheric oxygen?

The early atmosphere was mostly carbon dioxide methane and water spat out by volcanoes. Then the cyanobacteria cracked photosynthesis, breaking water down to release oxygen. Initially this free oxygen oxidised all of the free iron, until there was none left, then it created our existing atmosphere, poisoning all of the other proto-organisms that found oxygen inimical to life.

PhaseLockedLoop
07-01-2017, 12:15 PM
Once again, somebody who doesn't know what the word 'theory' means in a scientific context. That's as far as I got in the guy's rant. If we could only get lawyers (and TV show writers, etc.) to use 'hypothesis' maybe people would get it. In scientific terms, a theory is a hypothesis that has been shown to be correct by a large amount of observation, study, experimentation, verification, etc. Sigh....

This just isn't so. Are you saying that Darwin didn't introduce a theory of evolution?

Peerie Maa
07-01-2017, 12:24 PM
This just isn't so. Are you saying that Darwin didn't introduce a theory of evolution?

He started with a hypotheses. Then after about 20 or more years of work he gathered evidence to test the hypothesis before publishing. Subsequent testing has elevated his hypothesis to a Theory.
Darwin did refer to his hypothesis as a theory, in the common layman's use of the word which is interchangeable with hypothesis, now we accept it to be a Theory in the scientific sense.

Theory, Sense 1: A scheme or system of ideas or statements held as an explanation or account of a group of facts or phenomena; a hypothesis that has been confirmed or established by observation or experiment, and is propounded or accepted as accounting for the known facts; a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed.

Garth Jones
07-01-2017, 01:53 PM
He started with a hypotheses. Then after about 20 or more years of work he gathered evidence to test the hypothesis before publishing. Subsequent testing has elevated his hypothesis to a Theory.
Darwin did refer to his hypothesis as a theory, in the common layman's use of the word which is interchangeable with hypothesis, now we accept it to be a Theory in the scientific sense.

Thank you!