PDA

View Full Version : Marine head help needed



StevenBauer
06-24-2017, 08:45 PM
We went for a nice sail this afternoon on the boat my son and his friend were given last week. It's a Chris Craft 35' center cockpit sailboat built in 1963. It's got a fiberglass hull but the decks and cabin are build like a wooden boat.
I got a chance to look at the head, it needed a cleanup first. After cleaning the compartment I found that the lever and the foot pump don't do anything. They move freely, but nothing happens. I opened seacocks and valves but there was no change. There is water in the bowl.

Does anyone know what kind of head this is and what I need to do to get it working?

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/2015%20pics/d43e5966344253cf1a4a41845d988f21_zpsbkvqeiy0.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/2015%20pics/9f6efe5fa9b263db9a10d36e71bac4cb_zpsmcszabru.jpg

StevenBauer
06-24-2017, 10:03 PM
I've been looking on the interwebs and it kind of looks like a Wilcox Crittenden Skipper. A rebuild kit is $154. Anyone done the rebuild?

DeniseO30
06-24-2017, 11:23 PM
Chuck it and get a Jabsco.. they aren't much more then the rebuild Hamilton marine in Maine may have the parts.

Phil Y
06-24-2017, 11:55 PM
Yep, I'd chuck it out and get a new one. You just don't want to be messing with old heads that don't work.

Garret
06-25-2017, 06:51 AM
Another one for chucking it. Hamilton has a head for $180: https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/products/toilet-manual-compact-16-75d-x-17-75w-x-13-19h-20067.html

TR
06-25-2017, 08:44 AM
New ones are plastic crap...:) The Skipper will be fine forever once a rebuild is done. There's lots of pointers online, google it.

Hwyl
06-25-2017, 09:26 AM
What Tad said, they're great heads. Did you try priming the pump, adding cooking oil, check for collapsed inlet hose.

The inlet hose BTW is where all the smelly nasties live and die and a smelly head has not much to do with last night's curry. Plan on changing it.

Ted Hoppe
06-25-2017, 10:05 AM
We rebuilt one - pretty straight forward. Get the rebuild kit and it should work for years afterword. All hoses must go. Most importantly - Eat breakfast afterward after clean up.

Then again - this would a a chance to put in an airhead. Seal up the thru hulls forever.

cstevens
06-25-2017, 10:12 AM
I'll add another voice in favor of rebuilding the Skipper. The next head I buy will be composting (no more mucking about with hoses and tanks!) but if I was going to install a traditional head in Petrel it would be a Skipper or the next best thing, a Groco K-H. The last time I saw a Skipper available new it was over $1000 and that was a decade ago. Used ones in good condition are $250-$500 on craigslist here in Seattle. The Groco is $1700 from Defender now. There's a reason that the cheap heads are cheap and you are most likely to find out that reason at the least convenient time.

For head advice in general google "Peggie Hall marine head" or "Peggie Hall headmistress". I don't know if she's active on the boat forums any longer but she's the acknowledged expert on all things related to marine sanitation. Lots of good information from her past posts over the years.

StevenBauer
06-25-2017, 12:45 PM
I didn't try priming the pump. Or adding oil. How do you prime the pump?

I found the Navy44 instructions for rebuilding. My son and his friend don't think a working head is as important as his mother and I do.

cstevens
06-25-2017, 02:10 PM
There is something to be said for the Herreshoff bucket...

Hwyl
06-25-2017, 02:31 PM
You prime the pump by taking the inlet hose off the seacock and pour water in the hose. If I remember this head has a double acting piston (most do) and the ring on that piston has to be good.

The cooking oil lubricates all the rubber parts and can work miracles. Does she have a holding tank?
I can come up and take a look if you want. I'll text you.

Phil Y
06-25-2017, 05:10 PM
You prime the pump by taking the inlet hose off the seacock and pour water in the hose. If I remember this head has a double acting piston (most do) and the ring on that piston has to be good.

The cooking oil lubricates all the rubber parts and can work miracles. Does she have a holding tank?
I can come up and take a look if you want. I'll text you.
That has to be the most generous offer ever seen on the Internet!

StevenBauer
06-25-2017, 07:33 PM
That has to be the most generous offer ever seen on the Internet!

Yep. I'm just not sure if we can work it out this week. I leave Thursday morning for the WoodenBoat Show and I'm out working on Pound Of Tea Island in Freeport at o'darkthirty all week. Then sailing back to Maine on the Hess BCC. It might be a while til I get the head situation covered.

If we decide to replace the Skipper on my son's boat I might just save it for my boat. Could be a win, win. ;)

Jay Greer
06-25-2017, 07:49 PM
This head always works. In restricted areas, a wag bag can be inserted into it which will turn sewage into a solid. The bags can be disposed of in any trash can that a diaper can be disposed of in.
Jay
https://im1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/001079903521/media/23012039398/medium/1213372344/enhance

Jay Greer
06-25-2017, 07:51 PM
Incidently, that WC Head is easy to repair with the right kit for it.
Jay

StevenBauer
06-25-2017, 07:59 PM
Here is another pic from the boat, I'm thinking it's for emptying the holding tank, right?


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/2015%20pics/993c98139da9a938a097896b4a74058a_zpsv0vmqii9.jpg

StevenBauer
06-25-2017, 08:04 PM
And here are a few more pics of what someone will give away for free:


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/2015%20pics/492515242e9a9371563f140d8a7f924e_zps0xzzdmwz.jpg



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/eb8a2cb0032aa4f2b4ffec8b836511b9_zpsqbquambv.jpg



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/954dfe149b33dfe092e378dcfc324853_zpslizwuvxq.jpg

StevenBauer
06-25-2017, 08:15 PM
And of course every free boat comes with a locker full of free anchors:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/d156cd2730d2e380e770cd7cb85b60a0_zpsimexzinv.jpg


Plus the one on the bow.

And speaking of the bow this is up there, too:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/33e827489538509272bf2fb80e727c4e_zpshfq1gwlp.jpg


What do you guys know about this thing?


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/2015%20pics/a2f813024dde3ab920570d41bc129956_zpszfnuqghh.jpg

It isn't currently working but I haven't had a chance to look into it yet.

StevenBauer
06-25-2017, 08:18 PM
And how about this? Some kind of alcohol fueled unvented space heater?


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/237b727a8bb066a4ce419bd92046bc55_zpsjolrbjwo.jpg


Seems kind of sketchy, but kind of cool, too.

Garret
06-25-2017, 08:23 PM
And how about this? Some kind of alcohol fueled unvented space heater?


Seems kind of sketchy, but kind of cool, too.

White gas. If well tended & ventilated, they do produce heat. If you use it, you're a braver man than I!

Phil Y
06-25-2017, 08:46 PM
For free! Can't complain about the price. Well done. Looking forward to seeing the bright work looking like Jay's:)

Breakaway
06-25-2017, 11:57 PM
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/237b727a8bb066a4ce419bd92046bc55_zpsjolrbjwo.jpg

These work OK. ( not as much heat as a Kero heater though) You can also put a kettle or pan atop it.

Kevin

Bobcat
06-26-2017, 12:08 AM
I put a composting toilet on my boat about four years ago and have never regretted it. I will never go back to a standard marine head and holding tank.

Canoez
06-26-2017, 09:50 AM
White gas. If well tended & ventilated, they do produce heat. If you use it, you're a braver man than I!

Nope - not white gas. That's an Origo Heat Pal and is alcohol fueled.

Garret
06-26-2017, 09:56 AM
Nope - not white gas. That's an Origo Heat Pal and is alcohol fueled.

OK - I was basing it on having seen one for sale at a yard sale a few days ago. The owner had been using it for years in an ODay - running white gas. It even came with a can of Coleman fuel...

cstevens
06-26-2017, 10:22 AM
Some general notes on the Skipper from years of experience with them:

1. They can become hard to pump if not used and lubricated regularly. Don't force it - you can break the piston lever. A stronger replacement part was available for a while and you might still find one for sale. (I see that West Marine has it on clearance right now for example).

2. The parts requiring lubrication are actually leather, not rubber as was suggested above. Make sure that whatever lubricant you use won't damage the leather. Mineral oil and vegetable oil have been commonly used. And whatever you do do NOT use harsh cleaning chemicals in the head!

3. A Skipper in good condition is nearly effortless, will easily handle anything that belongs in a marine toilet and will last forever. I've used the cheap heads on other people's boats but I would never have one on any boat of my own. In fact when I bought the boat that my wife and I used on our honeymoon - a 1957 Chris Craft Constellation - the very first thing I did was to remove the old head and install a nice rebuilt Skipper. That step alone was the best thing I could do to make the boat a nicer place for all crewmembers.

Canoez
06-26-2017, 02:41 PM
OK - I was basing it on having seen one for sale at a yard sale a few days ago. The owner had been using it for years in an ODay - running white gas. It even came with a can of Coleman fuel...

.:eek:.

That would have been an explosive combination. Perhaps it was another device?

Bob Cleek
06-26-2017, 03:12 PM
The Skipper was the bottom of the Wilcox Crittenden line, I believe. Solid bronze. As said, they were going for about a grand. The Wilcox Crittenden "Imperial 51," when in production, got up as high as around $3,500, IIRC. There's a new-old-stock Imperial 51 on eBay right now for $2,000. Replacing a bronze and porcelain marine head with some of the junk they make for RVs these days makes no sense at all. The old bronze models were intended to be maintained. That's why rebuild kits are still readily available. Sometimes it's hard to bust the nuts loose, but the bolt heads are easily busted off if need be. Otherwise, take it apart, throw all the metal parts in a bucket of carburetor cleaner and let it sit over night. Pull them out in the morning and hose them off. Enjoy the shiny clean bronze. Reassemble. Oil the pump leathers. Reinstall. Enjoy it in good health!

Garret
06-26-2017, 04:11 PM
.:eek:.

That would have been an explosive combination. Perhaps it was another device?

Nope - exactly like the one in the pic. Glad I passed on it... :)

Phil Y
06-26-2017, 05:43 PM
OK I've come around to the fix it, respect it, even love it camp. Good luck.

rbgarr
06-26-2017, 05:49 PM
There are two Skippers for sale on eBay (U.S.) right now.

Todd D
06-26-2017, 05:51 PM
Rebuild the Wilcoc Crittenden Skipper II. It will last forever. My cruiser Tortuga has a Skipper from 1936 and it works just fine.

John Meachen
06-26-2017, 06:04 PM
Rule 1-buy at least two pairs of rubber gloves.You will be glad of the second pair the instant one of the first pair splits.Rule 2-put a good dollop of pine disinfectant into the beast before working on it.The job still won't be fun.Hope fervently you never have to work inside the holding tank is the final piece of advice.

The boat looks well worth putting some effort into.

Ted Hoppe
06-26-2017, 06:10 PM
And here are a few more pics of what someone will give away for free:


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/2015%20pics/492515242e9a9371563f140d8a7f924e_zps0xzzdmwz.jpg



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/eb8a2cb0032aa4f2b4ffec8b836511b9_zpsqbquambv.jpg



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/954dfe149b33dfe092e378dcfc324853_zpslizwuvxq.jpg

there is something about good Karma happening here. You and your family attract it.

DeniseO30
06-26-2017, 07:33 PM
Is the headsail rolled in the wrong direction?