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The Bigfella
05-28-2017, 10:32 AM
Mississippi this time.

Madness

CWSmith
05-28-2017, 10:37 AM
The dead include a deputy sheriff. The suspect has a record of violence, mostly small stuff but including armed robbery, and is in custody. The shootings were in 3 private homes, but I can't find an explanation why.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-dead-mississippi-shooting-47689143

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/28/mississippi-shooting-8-dead-including-including-deputy-sheriff-suspect-in-custody.html

Peerie Maa
05-28-2017, 10:51 AM
Ask the NRA, they're the experts on shooting.

sharpiefan
05-28-2017, 11:11 AM
Ask the NRA, they're the experts on shooting.

Unworthy of you, Nick. :(

amish rob
05-28-2017, 11:23 AM
People kill people because people are animals.

We pretend to be something else, because we've imagined all these trappings we call civilization, but we are animals. Don't bare your teeth, eh?

Really. This is the reason. Having tools to make the job easier certainly "helps" people kill more efficiently, but the problem is always people being "inhuman".

The human bit of us is precisely the bit that resides in this imaginary world we created, with society and laws and etc. All of our world is a veneer, an agreed upon illusion. Some people don't see the illusion, or don't fall for it, or whatever.

These are the people who act like animals.

Time will cure us of these tendencies, hopefully, but it must be remembered how short a period it is we've been "tame". Frankly, I marvel at the progress we've made, in a lot of ways.

150 years ago, for example, dead Indians, or their scalps, were worth money here. Really.

We will breed all the killing out of ourselves, if we don't kill ourselves off, first.:)

Peace,
Luke Skywalker

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 11:28 AM
thank you for the sanity

Paul Pless
05-28-2017, 11:35 AM
Luke Skywalker

rebel scum

amish rob
05-28-2017, 11:40 AM
rebel scum
:D
Whoa, whoa. It was your "empire" that turned on my people. Remember Order 66?

Peace,
Not The Droid You're Looking For

webishop14
05-28-2017, 11:56 AM
As I see it, there will be Peace on Earth once the planet has been reduced to a barren rock incapable of supporting any life at all.

johnw
05-28-2017, 01:39 PM
People kill people because people are animals.

We pretend to be something else, because we've imagined all these trappings we call civilization, but we are animals. Don't bare your teeth, eh?

Really. This is the reason. Having tools to make the job easier certainly "helps" people kill more efficiently, but the problem is always people being "inhuman".

The human bit of us is precisely the bit that resides in this imaginary world we created, with society and laws and etc. All of our world is a veneer, an agreed upon illusion. Some people don't see the illusion, or don't fall for it, or whatever.

These are the people who act like animals.

Time will cure us of these tendencies, hopefully, but it must be remembered how short a period it is we've been "tame". Frankly, I marvel at the progress we've made, in a lot of ways.

150 years ago, for example, dead Indians, or their scalps, were worth money here. Really.

We will breed all the killing out of ourselves, if we don't kill ourselves off, first.:)

Peace,
Luke Skywalker
.

Animals usually only kill for food, and seldom kill their own species. You owe them an apology for comparing them to humans.

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 01:41 PM
.

Animals usually only kill for food, and seldom kill their own species. You owe them an apology for comparing them to humans.

not true... lot of predators compete in life and death struggles... even some others

Joe (SoCal)
05-28-2017, 01:42 PM
Yea but we've got to protect ourselves from the nonexistent threat of refugees coming in and .......... wait they don't do anything except be grateful after a two year extreme vetting process.

Why dosen't take two years of extreme vetting to purchase a gun ? ..... Oh yea now I remember.

Carry on nothing to see here, these are not the droids you are looking for.

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 01:44 PM
who?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
05-28-2017, 01:53 PM
.

Animals usually only kill for food, and seldom kill their own species. You owe them an apology for comparing them to humans.

Would that it were so, animals kill for a variety of reasons and sometimes for no discernible reason at at all, neither is it hard to find examples of animals killing their own kind.....

Peerie Maa
05-28-2017, 02:15 PM
Unworthy of you, Nick. :(


People kill people because people are animals.

We pretend to be something else, because we've imagined all these trappings we call civilization, but we are animals. Don't bare your teeth, eh?

Really. This is the reason. Having tools to make the job easier certainly "helps" people kill more efficiently, but the problem is always people being "inhuman".

The human bit of us is precisely the bit that resides in this imaginary world we created, with society and laws and etc. All of our world is a veneer, an agreed upon illusion. Some people don't see the illusion, or don't fall for it, or whatever.

These are the people who act like animals.

Time will cure us of these tendencies, hopefully, but it must be remembered how short a period it is we've been "tame". Frankly, I marvel at the progress we've made, in a lot of ways.

150 years ago, for example, dead Indians, or their scalps, were worth money here. Really.

We will breed all the killing out of ourselves, if we don't kill ourselves off, first.:)

Peace,
Luke Skywalker

And the NRA insists that those animals can own guns, while the rest of the US sits on their thumbs and does nothing.

So, is that more or less worthy?

Gerarddm
05-28-2017, 03:05 PM
LOVE them guns, hey?

Be a man, walk up to someone and stick cold steel in them. Maybe then I can respect you.

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 03:21 PM
is snark the best you can do?

John Meachen
05-28-2017, 04:06 PM
Clearly the right to own guns is more important than the right of innocent bystanders to get on with their lives in peace.No doubt the lobbyists will endeavour to keep it this way.

Paul Pless
05-28-2017, 04:19 PM
Clearly the right to own guns is more important than the right of innocent bystanders to get on with their lives in peace.No doubt the lobbyists will endeavour to keep it this way.

Hey now, those people that got shot, wouldn't have if they had had their own guns. Oh wait, a sheriff deputy is among the dead.

Peerie Maa
05-28-2017, 05:13 PM
Clearly the right to own guns is more important than the right of innocent bystanders to get on with their lives in peace.No doubt the lobbyists will endeavour to keep it this way.

In fact the right to own a gun trumps
certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

TomF
05-28-2017, 05:18 PM
is snark the best you can do?with respect, what do you suggest that will be (a) implemented and (b) any more effective at preventing the next 8 firearms deaths?

Paul Pless
05-28-2017, 05:33 PM
with respect, what do you suggest that will be (a) implemented and (b) any more effective at preventing the next 8 firearms deaths?
Mandatory firearms training in primary school.

Paul Pless
05-28-2017, 05:34 PM
Oh, and helmets.

sharpiefan
05-28-2017, 06:19 PM
And the NRA insists that those animals can own guns, while the rest of the US sits on their thumbs and does nothing.

So, is that more or less worthy?

Less. You blame the NRA for crimes committed by a man illegally posessing a handgun.



All other instances where a weapon is concealed will require a license. The application process for concealment is quite lengthy and will be issued 120 days after request.

The applicant must be at least 21 years of age, live in Mississippi for a minimum of 12 months, possess a clean criminal background with no history of drug abuse, and show no signs of mental instability.

SOURCE (http://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/mississippi-gun-laws)



The Daily Leader reported that Godbolt has a long criminal record, including:

■ Charged with armed robbery and aggravated assault in 2005 after he allegedly struck a man with a pistol and took his cash and jewelry;

■ In 2013, the Lincoln County Sheriff’s Office charged him with simple assault;

■ Arrested in 2015 for disorderly conduct/breach of peace and failure to comply with a request from a sheriff;

■ Arrested in 2015 for speeding, driving with a suspended license, and no proof of liability insurance by the Mississippi Highway Patrol.

SOURCE (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/28/mississippi-shooting-8-dead-including-including-deputy-sheriff-suspect-in-custody.html)

TomF
05-28-2017, 06:26 PM
Oh, and helmets.
Pinko. Helmet laws are un-American.

Peerie Maa
05-28-2017, 06:26 PM
Less. You blame the NRA for crimes committed by a man illegally posessing a handgun.


SOURCE (http://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/mississippi-gun-laws)


SOURCE (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/28/mississippi-shooting-8-dead-including-including-deputy-sheriff-suspect-in-custody.html)

Wrong, I blame the NRA and US complacency for facilitating the murders by making guns accessible. No guns, no multiple killing.

sharpiefan
05-28-2017, 06:42 PM
Wrong, I blame the NRA and US complacency for facilitating the murders by making guns accessible. No guns, no multiple killing.

Bad guys will always get guns if they want them.

Peerie Maa
05-28-2017, 06:46 PM
Bad guys will always get guns if they want them.

But yous people make it soooo easy. Just walk into a gun show and plonk your cash down. Mean while the shooting of Americans by Americans goes on and you could not give a ****.

Paul Pless
05-28-2017, 06:46 PM
Bad guys will always get guns if they want them.
Make the penalties stiff enough for illegal possession and use of a gun and fewer bad guys will want them or be able to afford them.

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 06:59 PM
But yous people make it soooo easy. Just walk into a gun show and plonk your cash down. Mean while the shooting of Americans by Americans goes on and you could not give a ****.

you keep repeating that an you keep getting corrected...

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 07:01 PM
Mandatory firearms training in primary school.

I had suggested high school... who said primary, excepting you of course?

CWSmith
05-28-2017, 07:06 PM
Mandatory firearms training in primary school.


I had suggested high school... who said primary, excepting you of course?

Phillip, explain to me what part of firearms training effectively teaches a person not to shoot another person? It can teach you how not to shoot someone accidentally, but these were not accidents. It can improve your aim, but this guy didn't miss. How does it effectively address (neutralize) mental illness and homicidal rage?

sharpiefan
05-28-2017, 07:06 PM
But yous people make it soooo easy. Just walk into a gun show and plonk your cash down. Mean while the shooting of Americans by Americans goes on and you could not give a ****.

Wrong on both counts.



Make the penalties stiff enough for illegal possession and use of a gun and fewer bad guys will want them or be able to afford them.


You assume the bad guys are honest enough to buy guns? They can just steal them, from police or national guard armories, or LEOs on the street.

I'd rather see the criminals locked away; enforce the laws we already have, fix the idiotic revolving door we call a justice system.

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 07:09 PM
Phillip, explain to me what part of firearms training effectively teaches a person not to shoot another person? It can teach you how not to shoot someone accidentally, but these were not accidents. It can improve your aim, but this guy didn't miss. How does it effectively address (neutralize) mental illness and homicidal rage?

it works by taking the mystery out of it and taking the 'manliness' out of it... it's subtle , yes, but it's proactive instead of reactive. reactive seems to be the limit of some people's ability

Jimmy W
05-28-2017, 07:11 PM
with respect, what do you suggest that will be (a) implemented and (b) any more effective at preventing the next 8 firearms deaths?

Absolutely nothing will be implemented and nothing will be done to prevent the next 8 dead bodies.

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 07:13 PM
Wrong on both counts.



You assume the bad guys are honest enough to buy guns? They can just steal them, from police or national guard armories, or LEOs on the street.

I'd rather see the criminals locked away; enforce the laws we already have, fix the idiotic revolving door we call a justice system.

someone wants to limit gun ownership to those nowhere near the lower income level... one sure way to increase the value of one's widget is to limit the number of others that can have one... someone's a widget collector :)

skuthorp
05-28-2017, 07:14 PM
As someone already said, nothing to see here, move along.
Just some blood….the price of freedom.

CWSmith
05-28-2017, 07:17 PM
it works by taking the mystery out of it and taking the 'manliness' out of it... it's subtle , yes, but it's proactive instead of reactive. reactive seems to be the limit of some people's ability

I don't think I can agree with you. The "manliness" problem exists within someone who turns to a gun to solve a problem and doesn't begin when the gun is put in his hand. Either a person is a man (or woman) or not. Gun training won't change that.

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 07:20 PM
I don't think I can agree with you. The "manliness" problem exists within someone who turns to a gun to solve a problem and doesn't begin when the gun is put in his hand. Either a person is a man (or woman) or not. Gun training won't change that.

I told you it is subtle... I didn't say it would stop manliness at all... it makes the gun less attractive to the manly types if the mystery is gone and everyone else sees that

sharpiefan
05-28-2017, 08:41 PM
Paul wants to limit gun ownership to those nowhere near the lower income level... one sure way to increase the value of one's widget is to limit the number of others that can have one... someone's a widget collector :)

Please don't make this personal.

His idea,
Make the penalties stiff enough for illegal possession and use of a gun and fewer bad guys will want them or be able to afford them. might be valid if there were not a vast reservoir of guns, legal and illegal, out there. To eliminate that pool of firepower would require such draconian measures that, were they implemented, our republic, flawed as it may be, would cease to exist.

skuthorp
05-28-2017, 09:12 PM
These thing occurr so regularly I'm surprised one of the big on-line bookies hasn't done the odds. Maybe they reckon they're too common.

Phillip Allen
05-28-2017, 09:34 PM
Please don't make this personal.

His idea, might be valid if there were not a vast reservoir of guns, legal and illegal, out there. To eliminate that pool of firepower would require such draconian measures that, were they implemented, our republic, flawed as it may be, would cease to exist.

I fixed it for ya

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
05-29-2017, 04:42 AM
These thing occurr so regularly I'm surprised one of the big on-line bookies hasn't done the odds. Maybe they reckon they're too common.

Odds on a mass (>4) shooting in the USA in any given day.

This time of year no bookie would offer you better than ten to one on - you might get "five to one on" in January to March.

Peerie Maa
05-29-2017, 04:51 AM
you keep repeating that an you keep getting corrected...

Sop what part of those statements is incorrect?

Peerie Maa
05-29-2017, 04:54 AM
Wrong on both counts.



You assume the bad guys are honest enough to buy guns? They can just steal them, from police or national guard armories, or LEOs on the street.

I'd rather see the criminals locked away; enforce the laws we already have, fix the idiotic revolving door we call a justice system.

I asked Phillip to point out the inaccuracies, will you?

sharpiefan
05-29-2017, 08:27 AM
I asked Phillip to point out the inaccuracies, will you?

Your statement:


But yous people make it soooo easy. Just walk into a gun show and plonk your cash down. Mean while the shooting of Americans by Americans goes on and you could not give a ****.


From the Florida Gun Shows FAQ (click) (http://www.floridagunshows.com/faq/ )

What do I need to bring with me and what is the procedure for buying a gun?
You need a valid drivers license or other state issued picture ID. To purchase a gun in Florida you must be 18 to buy a rifle, 21 to buy a handgun and a Florida Resident. If you are not a Florida resident, the gun purchase may be shipped to a licensed dealer in your state. All exhibitors will accept cash or credit cards as a form of payment. If you have a Florida Concealed Weapons Permit, you may walk out with your gun the same day, otherwise a background check will be performed as well as 3-5 business day wait, depending on the county.

Other states have similar requirements, some more stringent than others.

You have no idea what my opinion of the state of things is, so you are not qualified to state
"... you could not give a ****." about me.

Peerie Maa
05-29-2017, 08:32 AM
Your statement:


From the Florida Gun Shows FAQ (click) (http://www.floridagunshows.com/faq/)

Other states have similar requirements, some more stringent than others.

You have no idea what my opinion of the state of things is, so you are not qualified to state
"... you could not give a ****." about me.

It has been posted on this Bilge that criminals in Chicago obtain their guns by sending a courier out into a neighbouring jurisdiction to buy guns at gun shows, cash down, no questions asked. Yes or no?

If you do give a **** , what are you doing about it? Most of what we get on here are apologists. If you are not an apologist, what are you actually doing?
I'll remind you that when we suffered our Sandy Hook, at Dunblane, we did something about it. You have suffered far too many mass shootings since sandy Hook and as a nation done diddley squat. So as a nation do you give a ****?

Paul Pless
05-29-2017, 08:38 AM
ou need a valid drivers license or other state issued picture ID. To purchase a gun in Florida you must be 18 to buy a rifle, 21 to buy a handgun and a Florida Resident. If you are not a Florida resident, the gun purchase may be shipped to a licensed dealer in your state. All exhibitors will accept cash or credit cards as a form of payment. If you have a Florida Concealed Weapons Permit, you may walk out with your gun the same day, otherwise a background check will be performed as well as 3-5 business day wait, depending on the county.
Other states have similar requirements, some more stringent than others.

36 states currently do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows.

TomF
05-29-2017, 08:48 AM
Please don't make this personal.

His idea, might be valid if there were not a vast reservoir of guns, legal and illegal, out there. To eliminate that pool of firepower would require such draconian measures that, were they implemented, our republic, flawed as it may be, would cease to exist.For interest's sake, would that be a more or less efficient way to disable America's apparently fragile Republic than the present incumbent's approach? ;)

Joe (SoCal)
05-29-2017, 08:54 AM
36 states currently do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows.

Thats what I call an ​"Awww shucks bitch slap ™" :D

brad9798
05-29-2017, 09:24 AM
The only thing I can state for certain with regard to this shooting:

Gun laws are a joke. This guy didn't own (or have use of) a gun legally.

Jimmy W
05-29-2017, 09:41 AM
The only thing I can state for certain with regard to this shooting:

Gun laws are a joke. This guy didn't own (or have use of) a gun legally.

How do you know? I haven't seen anything stating that.

Paul Pless
05-29-2017, 09:46 AM
Gun laws are a joke. You're right, as they currently stand; they are generally weak, inconsistent from state to state, and poorly enforced. . .

horsepen
05-29-2017, 09:46 AM
So let's make the penalty for any crime committed with a gun an automatic death sentence.

CWSmith
05-29-2017, 09:52 AM
You're right, as they currently stand, they are generally weak, inconsistent from state to state, and poorly enforced. . .

The inconsistency is the great swinging door that brings guns to New York from Florida, etc. It's a huge problem.


So let's make the penalty for any crime committed with a gun an automatic death sentence.

Too bad the death penalty has never worked.

sharpiefan
05-29-2017, 09:59 AM
It has been posted on this Bilge that criminals in Chicago obtain their guns by sending a courier out into a neighbouring jurisdiction to buy guns at gun shows, cash down, no questions asked. Yes or no?

Possibly; one can always find disreputable dealers.



If you do give a **** , what are you doing about it? Most of what we get on here are apologists. If you are not an apologist, what are you actually doing?
I'll remind you that when we suffered our Sandy Hook, at Dunblane, we did something about it. You have suffered far too many mass shootings since sandy Hook and as a nation done diddley squat. So as a nation do you give a ****?

I advocate for stricter enforcement and penalties in firearms-related crimes. We have more than enough laws, they are too-loosely enforced.

I am not empowered to speak for the nation.

I have to live in the world that is, not some fantasyland where all the guns can be magically disappeared. I wish it were otherwise, but it isn't. The best we can hope for is to be on equal footing with those who wish us harm.

I do admire how European LEOs deal with non-firearms-wielding threats (click) (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/body-cam-uk-cops-stopping-man-knife-exposes-tragically-dangerous-nature-cops/); I wish our LEOs were slower to move to lethal force in similar situations.

Once a bad guy has a weapon capable of dealing death-at-a-distance, the kid gloves must come off - he must be stopped as soon as possible in the name of public safety. It will be a sad day when you send your LEOs up against some loony wielding a smuggled AK-47.

Joe (SoCal)
05-29-2017, 10:13 AM
I'm for surrendering the "War on drugs" and enacting a "War on Guns" Get rid of all the petty drug offenses filling of the courts and jails and go after idiots with guns. Make certain guns schedule 1,2 & 3 controlled substances. Break it down like drug offenses. What's the capacity, semi-auto, ammo yadda yadda yadda. I'm sure some gun nut could write the code with all the proper BS hyper tech crap.

Those that sell them illegally, lock em up. Those that transport them across state lines illegally, Lock em up. Those that are drunk, spousal abuse, or just hold my beer trigger happy, lock them up. Aspergers as f*** with a gun, lock em up. Awww Shucks I don't need to put it in a safe, lock em up.

Phillip Allen
05-29-2017, 11:22 AM
who?

webishop14
05-29-2017, 11:36 AM
Too bad the death penalty has never worked.

The way I see it, the death penalty does work. I've not read about any executed murderer committing further murders. However, I don't see the penalty as being a deterrent.

For the record, I agree that guns will be with us until the US isn't. We do need to start educating children about firearms. We should also be providing anger management training to our children. And I argue we need to enforce responsibility more. If someone "needs" to buy a firearm, he is responsible for bringing that weapon into society. He shouldn't be permitted to terminate his responsibility when that firearm is stolen in a burglary -- he is still responsible for its loss, his loss of control over it, and any harm resulting from its subsequent use.

Joe (SoCal)
05-29-2017, 11:38 AM
Melt them all and make more Union Civil War Memorials to piss of the Awww Shucks™ Southerner Gun Nuts. :D

Let's make another William Tecumseh Sherman statue out of melted guns :D :D :D "Got a match" ;)

http://www.mikelynaugh.com/VirtualCivilWar/New/Washington2/images/IMG_8307.jpg

Peerie Maa
05-29-2017, 11:47 AM
Possibly; one can always find disreputable dealers.
There are 36 states worth of perfectly legal dealers willing to sell to anybody, no questions asked.


36 states currently do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows.

I advocate for stricter enforcement and penalties in firearms-related crimes. We have more than enough laws, they are too-loosely enforced.

The best we can hope for is to be on equal footing with those who wish us harm.

<snip>

Once a bad guy has a weapon capable of dealing death-at-a-distance, the kid gloves must come off - he must be stopped as soon as possible in the name of public safety.

How long are you going to wait for that to happen, at the rate of about 250 people shot per day?

I am reminded of the definition of insanity, continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

sharpiefan
05-29-2017, 12:05 PM
For interest's sake, would that be a more or less efficient way to disable America's apparently fragile Republic than the present incumbent's approach? ;)

Probably more; so far, POTUS hasn't done anything that can't be fixed, given time and good judgement on the part of Congress and the electorate. ;)

An attempt to impose the kind of tyranny required to confiscate all guns would most likely result in a civil war. As opposed to the gradual nibbling away at our freedoms during the last century, such an overt attack on our rights of due process, freedom from warrantless search, right to assembly, and Second Amendment rights would awaken resentment and resistance in a significant proportion of the population.

CWSmith
05-29-2017, 12:16 PM
The way I see it, the death penalty does work. I've not read about any executed murderer committing further murders. However, I don't see the penalty as being a deterrent.

I'm not taking the bait.

sharpiefan
05-29-2017, 12:30 PM
There are 36 states worth of perfectly legal dealers willing to sell to anybody, no questions asked.




How long are you going to wait for that to happen, at the rate of about 250 people shot per day?

I am reminded of the definition of insanity, continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

What would you suggest?

I am not in charge (for which I can gratefully say, "Whew! Thank Goodness!"). I can only work within the system we have; any attempt on my part to subvert or overthrow it would be foolishly futile.

Until psychology and psychiatry become real sciences, and can preemptively predict and cure psychopathic and sociopathic behaviors, people will hurt people. At least nominally over here, we are innocent until proven guilty, a principle derived from English Common Law, among other sources. I think it sad you had to covict without trial all your fellow citizens of being on the same moral plain as the sociopathic paedophile who perpetrated the tragedy at Dunblane.

Joe (SoCal)
05-29-2017, 12:30 PM
Second Amendment rights would awaken resentment and resistance in a significant proportion of the population.

You do know the government has drones don't you ?

Phillip Allen
05-29-2017, 12:33 PM
who?

Joe (SoCal)
05-29-2017, 12:58 PM
Awwww Shucks™ Looks like I have a puppy following me :D :D :D
Too bad I can't see the cute lil feller. Good boy, good boy. What ??? Timmy fell in a well ? No ? Timmy shot his best friend with his daddies unsecured 2nd amendment tool designed to kill people in the most efficient way possible ?

Uhhh oh Old Yeller you are looking a little frothy at the mouth :D

Peerie Maa
05-29-2017, 01:24 PM
What would you suggest?
Follow our lead, it is tried and tested.
Guns for hunting vermin control and target shooting licensed and stored in secure cabinets separate from their ammo.

Declare amnesties for the surrender of all other guns, with a buy back deal. Antiques and guns owned for sentimental reasons where ammo is still available to be deactivated.



Until psychology and psychiatry become real sciences, and can preemptively predict and cure psychopathic and sociopathic behaviors, people will hurt people. At least nominally over here, we are innocent until proven guilty, a principle derived from English Common Law, among other sources. I think it sad you had to covict without trial all your fellow citizens of being on the same moral plain as the sociopathic paedophile who perpetrated the tragedy at Dunblane.
This is offensive crap.

You fail to remember that we have an effective representative democracy. The change to the law following Dunblane was the will of the people.

Jimmy W
05-29-2017, 01:40 PM
The will of the people and not the will of the NRA? That's un-American. Do know that at the request of the NRA, the state of Mississippi made it illegal to have a gun buyback program if you are going to destroy the guns that you buy.

Phillip Allen
05-29-2017, 01:52 PM
Awwww shucks :)

Canoeyawl
05-29-2017, 02:27 PM
If guns were Corvettes, or Ferrarris, and we threatened to register them, tax them or even confiscate them if they were used to commit murder. What would that be like?

At least a gun is small enough to fondle and sleep with...

TomF
05-29-2017, 02:38 PM
If only your Founders had waited 'till the car was invented, eh?

Paul Pless
05-29-2017, 02:42 PM
At least a gun is small enough to fondle and sleep with...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gUHkZGGCBc

CWSmith
05-29-2017, 03:55 PM
Awwww Shucks™ Looks like I have a puppy following me :D :D :D
Too bad I can't see the cute lil feller. Good boy, good boy. What ??? Timmy fell in a well ? No ? Timmy shot his best friend with his daddies unsecured 2nd amendment tool designed to kill people in the most efficient way possible ?

Uhhh oh Old Yeller you are looking a little frothy at the mouth :D

:) You have that name trademarked? :)

Phillip Allen
05-29-2017, 04:46 PM
:) You have that name trademarked? :)

no...

Phillip Allen
05-29-2017, 04:47 PM
If only your Founders had waited 'till the car was invented, eh?

free movement existed

TomF
05-29-2017, 04:48 PM
free movement existedYeah, but folks didn't write in a Constitutionally protected right to bear horses. That would have been just silly.

Ahem.

Phillip Allen
05-29-2017, 04:53 PM
Yeah, but folks didn't write in a Constitutionally protected right to bear horses. That would have been just silly.

Ahem.

I expect the free movement is covered but I don't know where to look for it... no need for internal passports

TomF
05-29-2017, 05:01 PM
A horse (or car) is a means to help ensure the objective of "free movement." They didn't put "horse" in the Constitution, because it was a means to the end of "free movement."

The 2nd Amendment's "arms" are similarly a means to help ensure the objective of ... uhm ... :D ... well, of the morass of different things the 2nd Amendment has been interpreted to include. One of those, connected to the idea of why you'd have a "well regulated militia" was the objective of "maintaining Liberty from a foreign power." The "arms" are tools, instruments, to assist the population in retaining that particular Liberty, correct?

One might be inclined to think that there was some inconsistency - that the framers might have treated "arms" with the same logic that they apparently treated "horses." Either that, or introduce a Constitutional Amendment protecting the right to bear Corvettes.

Phillip Allen
05-29-2017, 05:07 PM
false equivalency... again

Paul Pless
05-29-2017, 05:16 PM
false equivalency... againa debate tactic and ultimately a logical fallacy that you yourself know well eh? :D

TomF
05-29-2017, 05:19 PM
I don't think a pistol is equivalent to a corvette. Don't be silly. ;)

Peerie Maa
05-29-2017, 05:22 PM
I expect the free movement is covered but I don't know where to look for it... no need for internal passports
Free movement (unless you were a slave or indentured servant) was a given,
From 1789 through late 1941, the constitutionally established government, required passports of citizens only during two periods: during the American Civil War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War) (1861–1865), as well as during and shortly after World War I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I) (1914–1918). The passport requirement of the Civil War era lacked statutory authority.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] During World War I (1914–1918), European countries instituted passport requirements. The Travel Control Act (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Travel_Control_Act) of May 22, 1918, permitted the president, when the United States was at war, to proclaim a passport requirement, and President Wilson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson) issued such a proclamation on August 18, 1918. World War I ended on November 11, 1918, but the passport requirement lingered until March 3, 1921, the last day of the Wilson administration.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_passport#cite_note-19)

A horse (or car) is a means to help ensure the objective of "free movement." They didn't put "horse" in the Constitution, because it was a means to the end of "free movement."

The 2nd Amendment's "arms" are similarly a means to help ensure the objective of ... uhm ... :D ... well, of the morass of different things the 2nd Amendment has been interpreted to include. One of those, connected to the idea of why you'd have a "well regulated militia" was the objective of "maintaining Liberty from a foreign power." The "arms" are tools, instruments, to assist the population in retaining that particular Liberty, correct?

One might be inclined to think that there was some inconsistency - that the framers might have treated "arms" with the same logic that they apparently treated "horses." Either that, or introduce a Constitutional Amendment protecting the right to bear Corvettes.
It should be clear that the Framers wanted a Militia because a standing army was an anathema. From this the need to ensure that if a state or the federal government needed to call up, or ensure training in support of being well regulated, the militia men must have access to appropriate arms. I would add suppressing insurrection against the Government to
"maintaining Liberty from a foreign power."
All a bit academic now that the National Guard exists.

Joe (SoCal)
05-29-2017, 05:27 PM
:) You have that name trademarked? :)

Actually that's a brilliant idea. I might just do. Full website I'm gonna see if Awwwshucks.com is taken. I can throw the full weight of my marketing genius behind this. Online store and all

TomF
05-29-2017, 05:33 PM
Well Nick, the 2nd has taken a life and history of its own in American culture, whatever the actual limited and context-laden intent of drafters looking at the newly post-Revolutionary country and the threats of a late 18th century world. Nowadays it's all about tactical this, camo that, and the idea of self defence.

Peerie Maa
05-29-2017, 05:36 PM
Well Nick, the 2nd has taken a life and history of its own in American culture, whatever the actual limited and context-laden intent of drafters looking at the newly post-Revolutionary country and the threats of a late 18th century world. Nowadays it's all about tactical this, camo that, and the idea of self defence.

Yep, just shows how much US jurisprudence can be swayed by political pressure. Sad.

Phillip Allen
05-29-2017, 06:21 PM
who? again

Phillip Allen
05-29-2017, 06:22 PM
its good to know we have constitutional scholars in the UK

CWSmith
05-29-2017, 06:24 PM
its good to know we have constitutional scholars in the UK

Well, I can't find any in the White House, so it sounds like a good idea.

Peerie Maa
05-29-2017, 06:42 PM
its good to know we have constitutional scholars in the UK

It must be depressing when foreigners understand you history and constitution better than your fellow country-folk. ;)

Joe (SoCal)
05-29-2017, 06:51 PM
http://awwwshucks.com/ is not taken I'm gonna buy it :)

CWSmith
05-29-2017, 06:55 PM
http://awwwshucks.com/ is not taken I'm gonna buy it :)

:) If you start a blog, I'll register for the updates.

Paul G.
05-29-2017, 07:23 PM
Who cares? 8 getting shot is just statistical noise, 35 die from falling over every day in the US and A

CWSmith
05-29-2017, 07:32 PM
Who cares? 8 getting shot is just statistical noise, 35 die from falling over every day in the US and A

I'm going to guess the friends and relatives of the 8 who died because of weak gun laws.

The Bigfella
05-29-2017, 07:39 PM
Who cares? 8 getting shot is just statistical noise, 35 die from falling over every day in the US and A

Yeah, the 8 dead here is less than one tenth the daily gun toll... and, let's not forget the 240 or so serious gunshot injuries every day too, eh?

skuthorp
05-29-2017, 07:47 PM
The US seems not to care about the toll of their own civilians, so it's not to big an extension that they don't care much about say Yemini civilians either.

Paul G.
05-29-2017, 07:48 PM
No one really cares otherwise they would change the laws. I've watched this stupid debate for years, nothing is going to change after all this is the country that elected Trump. Face facts, Americans love shooting each other and (poor brown people in foreign countries) so leave them to it I say.

The Bigfella
05-29-2017, 08:02 PM
No one really cares otherwise they would change the laws. I've watched this stupid debate for years, nothing is going to change after all this is the country that elected Trump. Face facts, Americans love shooting each other and (poor brown people in foreign countries) so leave them to it I say.

Well yes, I became aware of how poor brown people in foreign countries view America and Americans when I rode in some of those countries whilst wearing some American-made protective gear. It has an American flag on it.

"You American?"...

"No... Australian".

There'd be an immediate change of attitude.

Maybe if you guys changed your deodorant?

sharpiefan
05-29-2017, 08:05 PM
Follow our lead, it is tried and tested.
Guns for hunting vermin control and target shooting licensed and stored in secure cabinets separate from their ammo.

Declare amnesties for the surrender of all other guns, with a buy back deal. Antiques and guns owned for sentimental reasons where ammo is still available to be deactivated.

{SNIP}


You're joking, right? You must have a better class of criminal than we do, if you claim that worked for you.

If you think the leaders of the various mafiosi, urban gangs, Jamaican drug posses, Colombian cartels, Mexican drug runners, and run-of-the-mill ne'er-do-wells are going to tell their henchmen to turn their guns over to the feds, you really do live on Fantasy Island.

john welsford
05-29-2017, 08:26 PM
My own thoughts are that in a culture, or sub culture that promotes guns as the solution to problems such as a need to defend oneself, family or property, then people who feel that they have a problem of some sort will turn to their gun to fix that.
In most countries that might end as a fight in a bar, attacking someone with a knife or a baseball bat, or wrecking a car but the availability of lethal weapons and that perception that they are a tool with which to fix problems means that lethal force up to and including mass murder is within the reach of pretty much anyone.

I note with interest that Canada has a high rate of gun ownership, and a fraction of the gun deaths per capita, their culture is the difference.

How to fix it? Get everyone to turn the tv off, not go to the movies, and read Henry David Thoreau.
Other than that, I dont know.

John Welsford

Paul G.
05-29-2017, 08:45 PM
You're joking, right? You must have a better class of criminal than we do, if you claim that worked for you.

If you think the leaders of the various mafiosi, urban gangs, Jamaican drug posses, Colombian cartels, Mexican drug runners, and run-of-the-mill ne'er-do-wells are going to tell their henchmen to turn their guns over to the feds, you really do live on Fantasy Island.

You got a drug problem because you created the demand and since your laws are so draconian then carrying guns is very practical. Drug guys kill other drug guys, very rarely members of the public.

The Bigfella
05-29-2017, 08:50 PM
You got a drug problem because you created the demand and since your laws are so draconian then carrying guns is very practical. Drug guys kill other drug guys, very rarely members of the public.

Yeah, no-one worries too much about that.... but the majority of gun deaths in the US are opportunistic suicides (and guns don't give depressed people a second chance), neighbourhood disputes (turn down that Goddam noise... or I'll shoot you)... or family disputes.

Paul G.
05-29-2017, 10:22 PM
Yeah, no-one worries too much about that.... but the majority of gun deaths in the US are opportunistic suicides (and guns don't give depressed people a second chance), neighbourhood disputes (turn down that Goddam noise... or I'll shoot you)... or family disputes.

True, suicide is the biggest killer but since americans dont care about public health and hate losers then its a win/win all round.

skuthorp
05-29-2017, 11:08 PM
You don't need death panels when you make the alternatives for the unwell so appalling that a self inflicted bullet in the head is a better solution. And if they haven't the bottle for that go on a killing spree and let the cops do it for you………………...

Phillip Allen
05-30-2017, 12:05 AM
think of suicide as a late abortion (by choice)... you guys like abortions don't you?

Canoeyawl
05-30-2017, 01:19 AM
No one likes abortions Phillip

Peerie Maa
05-30-2017, 04:56 AM
You're joking, right? You must have a better class of criminal than we do, if you claim that worked for you.

If you think the leaders of the various mafiosi, urban gangs, Jamaican drug posses, Colombian cartels, Mexican drug runners, and run-of-the-mill ne'er-do-wells are going to tell their henchmen to turn their guns over to the feds, you really do live on Fantasy Island.

Like I said, apologists.

Peerie Maa
05-30-2017, 04:59 AM
There have been a couple of really callous posts on this one. Gotta wonder about some of the Bilge rats this week.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
05-30-2017, 05:54 AM
Did you detect a change?

Joe (SoCal)
05-30-2017, 06:38 AM
Site in progress https://fosterhere.wixsite.com/awwwshucks

It's going to be a blog type website so just scroll down from the splash page :)

Chris249
05-30-2017, 07:19 AM
it works by taking the mystery out of it and taking the 'manliness' out of it... it's subtle , yes, but it's proactive instead of reactive. reactive seems to be the limit of some people's abilityBut guns are much more of a mystery in many other countries, and yet those countries have lower gun death rates.

There appears to be not the slightest correlation between whether guns are mysteries and the death rates, so why would your idea work?

CWSmith
05-30-2017, 10:16 AM
Site in progress https://fosterhere.wixsite.com/awwwshucks

It's going to be a blog type website so just scroll down from the splash page :)

That's some serious piece of work you have going. I have to admire it.

webishop14
05-30-2017, 03:25 PM
There have been a couple of really callous posts on this one. Gotta wonder about some of the Bilge rats this week.

I'll agree -- my prior post was a bit abrupt. My point is that the death penalty should be accepted (or rejected) for what it is: it rids society of individuals who have placed themselves beyond the pale (eg Ted Bundy). Period. In my opinion, the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent.

My own views: 1. If one innocent person is executed, that is one too many. I believe we've already far exceeded that limit. 2. The death penalty should not be "sold" to society under the pretext that it serves as a deterrent. It does not. (eg. Ted Bundy) 3. Because the death penalty is too easily misapplied to serve other motives, I believe that the death penalty should be repealed and never be re-enacted.

Peace

Peerie Maa
05-30-2017, 04:23 PM
I'll agree -- my prior post was a bit abrupt. My point is that the death penalty should be accepted (or rejected) for what it is: it rids society of individuals who have placed themselves beyond the pale (eg Ted Bundy). Period. In my opinion, the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent.

My own views: 1. If one innocent person is executed, that is one too many. I believe we've already far exceeded that limit. 2. The death penalty should not be "sold" to society under the pretext that it serves as a deterrent. It does not. (eg. Ted Bundy) 3. Because the death penalty is too easily misapplied to serve other motives, I believe that the death penalty should be repealed and never be re-enacted.

Peace

I don't disagree with any of that, except that of your prior post being abrupt.