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Keith Wilson
05-04-2017, 10:39 AM
The current system has plenty of problems, but what the Republicans propose does not even pretend to be an improvement. If it becomes law will make millions of people's lives worse, while transferring hundreds of millions of dollars to the very richest. No other word for it; this is evil undisguised.


The GOP Health-Care Bill Is an Abdication of Responsibility and a Moral Disgrace
By Jonathan Chait

In John Boehner’s angry, rousing 2010 floor speech denouncing the Affordable Care Act — the one in which he famously shouted “hell, no!” repeatedly — the Republican House leader ended on a magnanimous note. “Join me, join me in voting against this bill, so that we can come together, together renew, addressing the challenge of health care in a manner that brings credit to this body and brings credit to the ideals of this nation. And most importantly, that reflects the will of the American people,” he begged. Even in this moment of tea-party hyper-adrenalized rage, the party was not lashing itself to the status quo. It was instead pleading for a different, more bipartisan approach to solve what all agreed was a terrible problem.

The Republican Party has never changed its health-care strategy since Bill Clinton tried to reform the system. Republicans posture in favor of the goal of providing medical care to those who can’t afford it, while opposing any specific plan that does so, and refusing to defend the policy outcome their actual position would bring about. They held to that strategy during the Obamacare debate, and through years of voting to repeal the law while promising their alternative would come soon. It was the strategy they tried to carry out earlier this year, when they would repeal Obamacare immediately and replace it … eventually.

Republican efforts to repeal Obamacare without a replacement failed. But they are attempting the next closest thing: a bill the party leadership will try to rush into law without the barest elements of due diligence. There have been no hearings, no studies, no Congressional Budget Office analysis; not even the text of a bill circulated the day before Thursday’s vote.

The heart of the bill is the same one that was polling at under 20 percent and failed two months ago: a near-trillion dollar tax cut for wealthy investors, financed by cuts to insurance subsidies for the poor and middle class. They have added a series of hazily defined changes: waivers for states to allow insurers to charge higher rates to people with preexisting conditions and to avoid covering essential health benefits, and a pitifully small amount of money to finance high-risk pools for sick patients.

The implications of these changes are vast. The Brookings Institution notes that if a single state eliminated the cap on lifetime benefits for a single employee, then employers in every state could actually follow suit, thus bringing back a horrid feature of the pre-Obamacare system, in which people who get hit with expensive treatment suddenly discover that their insurer will no longer pay for their care. This would affect not only those getting insurance through Medicaid or the state exchanges, but also through their job.

The ambiguity of the details is the strategy. Republican leaders have been “assuring centrists that the Senate would make changes to allay their concerns and insisting that few states would actually use the waivers allowing higher premiums for pre-existing conditions,” reports The Wall Street Journal. Sean Spicer says it would be “literally impossible … to do an analysis of any level of factual basis.” Representative Fred Upton told reporters that if the Congressional Budget Office says the bill is underfunded he will push for more money — after it passes his chamber.

They are rushing through a chamber of Congress a bill reorganizing one-fifth of the economy, without even cursory attempts to gauge its impact. Its budgetary impact is as yet unknown. The same is true of its social impact, though the broad strokes are clear enough: Millions of Americans will lose access to medical care, and tens of thousands of them will die, and Congress is eager to hasten these results without knowing them more precisely. Their haste and secrecy are a way of distancing the House Republicans from the immorality of their actions.

LeeG
05-04-2017, 10:59 AM
This is also insane.

TomF
05-04-2017, 11:02 AM
This is a gift to the Democrats. A bloody, grisly, memorable gift.

It may also be the only thing possible to prompt the introduction of universal single-payer health care shortly after 2020. Enable America's health insurance system to enter the mid-20th Century.

BrianY
05-04-2017, 11:04 AM
The headline should actually read The GOP Is an Abdication of Responsibility and a Moral Disgrace

bamamick
05-04-2017, 11:09 AM
The state that I was born in, live in, and love with all my heart, has unfortunately not been one who has a long history of doing what would be considered 'the right thing' for many of it's citizens. That's why these sorts of things should NOT be left solely to local governance. This is no more than a scam perpetrated by the Republican Party on the behest of the insurance and health care industries. Throw the pharma industry in there, as well.

This is a disgrace.

Mickey Lake

Tom Montgomery
05-04-2017, 11:11 AM
Yes, we are witnessing evil. There is more to come. And this is the reason that I have little to no tolerance for 21st century Republican Party supporters and enablers. Their goal appears to be to dismantle everything their great and great-great grandparents constructed for American society.

Here's hoping we all survive until November 2020.

Keith Wilson
05-04-2017, 11:17 AM
This is no more than a scam perpetrated by the Republican Party on the behest of the insurance and healthcare industries. Throw the pharma industry in there, as well. I don't think so. The insurance industry and actual health care providers were doing OK with the current law, and I don't think they are generally in favor of this. If it were merely an attempt to help those in the business, that would be bad enough, but it isn't. This is worse than that, almost entirely driven by cruelty, lies about Obamacare, and the 'if you ain't rich, f*ck you' ideology that has taken over the US right wing. Evil written into law.

oznabrag
05-04-2017, 11:26 AM
Don't get me started.







:d

David G
05-04-2017, 11:50 AM
Acton's Dictum - playing out in ever more obvious fashion, in one circumstance after another.

John of Phoenix
05-04-2017, 11:58 AM
But they are attempting the next closest thing: a bill the party leadership will try to rush into law without the barest elements of due diligence. There have been no hearings, no studies, no Congressional Budget Office analysis; not even the text of a bill circulated the day before Thursday’s vote.

This is incompetent. This is treason.

DO YOUR ****ING JOBS!

sandtown
05-04-2017, 12:01 PM
It is a particular sort of "evil" - cold blooded murder.

bobbys
05-04-2017, 12:06 PM
Strange how liberals only have a moment of conscience and review morality only based on partisan politics.

John of Phoenix
05-04-2017, 12:09 PM
^ You have no idea how stupid that sounds.

Keith Wilson
05-04-2017, 12:16 PM
Hogwash, bobbys; you can take your 'aww shucks' and stuff it where the sun don't shine. Your boys are proposing to take away health insurance from tens of millions of your fellow citizens, the ones who can least afford it, and to deliberately cause untold suffering and misery in order to make the rich richer. Defend it if you can (if you even understand it), or sit down and let adults discuss it.

I could wish that someone dear to you is discovered to have a pre-existing congenital condition that can be treated, but expensively, and that they would have lost coverage because of this odious maggot-ridden pile of offal written into law. I could wish that you would lose everything you have because of medical expenses, and still not be able to cover the cost of treatment, and your loved one dies anyway, in terrible pain. It would be just - but I don't wish that on anyone. If you support this law, you do.

TomF
05-04-2017, 12:20 PM
Strange how liberals only have a moment of conscience and review morality only based on partisan politics.Why not come up here, live a week with me, and see if that filthy lie holds the water you claim. Otherwise, STFU.

Gib Etheridge
05-04-2017, 12:26 PM
Strange how liberals only have a moment of conscience and review morality only based on partisan politics.

There's something I like about you Bobby, so I'm reluctant to point it out, but you just described your posts to a "T".

bobbys
05-04-2017, 12:30 PM
Hogwash, bobbys; you can take your 'aww shucks' and stuff it where the sun don't shine. Your boys are proposing to take away health insurance from tens of millions of your fellow citizens, the ones who can least afford it, and to deliberately cause untold suffering and misery in order to make the rich richer. Defend it if you can (if you even understand it), or sit down and let adults discuss it.

I could wish that someone dear to you is discovered to have a pre-existing congenital condition that can be treated, but expensively, and that they would have lost coverage because of this odious maggot-ridden pile of offal written into law. I could wish that you would lose everything you have because of medical expenses, and still not be able to cover the cost of treatment, and your loved one dies anyway, in terrible pain. It would be just - but I don't wish that on anyone. If you support this law, you do.
.

You accuse me of wanting my love ones to die if I support this law, however you have not only brought religion into the mix but now bring up a fallacy, a appeal to emotion in order to make a argumeant., really?

bamamick
05-04-2017, 12:31 PM
Here locally I have seen many times in a public assembly the city council will ask if anyone has any objections to a zoning change or a new law and the public will cry out and beg for the change to not be made, only to have the council absolutely ignore the responses from the people and vote unanimously in favor. Immediately when I see this I wonder who paid who and how much? This is what I think of today when I listen to analysts discuss this bill.

Mickey Lake

bobbys
05-04-2017, 12:31 PM
Why not come up here, live a week with me, and see if that filthy lie holds the water you claim. Otherwise, STFU.
.
You are not the boss of me.

LeeG
05-04-2017, 12:31 PM
best I can tell is the whole reason for repealing the ACA is the same for not reviewing Merrick Garland because Obama introduced it. Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with this?

John of Phoenix
05-04-2017, 12:33 PM
best I can tell is the whole reason for repealing the ACA is the same for not reviewing Merrick Garland because Obama introduced it. Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with this?Nailed it.

Steve McMahon
05-04-2017, 12:33 PM
Hogwash
bobbys
deliberately
suffering
misery
rich richer
Defend it if you can (if you even understand it), or sit down and let adults discuss it.

odious maggot-ridden pile of offal


I ran it through my bobbys response algorithm and you scored 100% Keith!

TomF
05-04-2017, 12:35 PM
.
You are not the boss of me.Nor are you the accurate observer of all liberals.

Tom Montgomery
05-04-2017, 12:36 PM
now bring up a fallacy, a appeal to emotion in order to make a argumeant., really?
Now that is funny!

You have proven to be absolutely resistant to any rational argument that challenges your cherished ideology. And now you also reject any argument based on an appeal to your emotions.

You are are a rock! ROTFLMAO!

LeeG
05-04-2017, 12:55 PM
Strange how liberals only have a moment of conscience and review morality only based on partisan politics.

Try discussing what Trump and the Republican leadership are actually doing. Please explain how making things worse for the general public so as to benefit the wealthy is a good thing.

oznabrag
05-04-2017, 01:18 PM
.

You accuse me of wanting my love ones to die if I support this law,

That is precisely correct.

"I'm alright, Jack!"

Keith Wilson
05-04-2017, 01:24 PM
.You accuse me of wanting my love ones to die if I support this law, however you have not only brought religion into the mix but now bring up a fallacy, a appeal to emotion in order to make a argument., really?No. I accuse you of nothing. I say, as an objective fact, that people's loved ones WILL die if this bill becomes law. The amount of human suffering and misery will increase greatly. This is not open to rational dispute. Now, you may think the other ends achieved by the bill - less government involvement, lower taxes for the wealthy, possibly lower premiums for the young and healthy - are worth the suffering it will cause. Make that case if you can. But you are supporting a law that will assure these things. You cannot hide from that.

Wet Feet
05-04-2017, 04:04 PM
No. I accuse you of nothing. I say, as an objective fact, that people's loved ones WILL die if this bill becomes law. The amount of human suffering and misery will increase greatly. This is not open to rational dispute. Now, you may think the other ends achieved by the bill - less government involvement, lower taxes for the wealthy, possibly lower premiums for the young and healthy - are worth the suffering it will cause. Make that case if you can. But you are supporting a law that will assure these things. You cannot hide from that.


For what it`s worth , I believe this to be evil too Mr Wilson.

No other word for it really.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
05-04-2017, 04:08 PM
The joys of small spelling errors.

We hoped for universal suffrage - not suffering.

Bluefin2
05-04-2017, 04:17 PM
No. I accuse you of nothing. I say, as an objective fact, that people's loved ones WILL die if this bill becomes law. The amount of human suffering and misery will increase greatly. This is not open to rational dispute. Now, you may think the other ends achieved by the bill - less government involvement, lower taxes for the wealthy, possibly lower premiums for the young and healthy - are worth the suffering it will cause. Make that case if you can. But you are supporting a law that will assure these things. You cannot hide from that.
Wow! Weren't these the same things said when Obamacare came out? Still haven't seen any bodies laying on the streets.
And throughout these threads I've read a bunch of times the 'rich get richer'. Guess what - they were when Obama was in office too. Even Obama is better off since Trump took office.

Gib Etheridge
05-04-2017, 04:31 PM
It appears that the Republicans are intent on killing off the people who vote for them. That will make it much easier to get re-elected. Makes a lot of sense.

Well, maybe it does, the wealthy will donate more to their campaigns, perhaps enough to outweigh the loss of voter base.

Keith Wilson
05-04-2017, 04:46 PM
Wow! Weren't these the same things said when Obamacare came out? Still haven't seen any bodies laying on the streets.
And throughout these threads I've read a bunch of times the 'rich get richer'. Guess what - they were when Obama was in office too. Even Obama is better off since Trump took office.I tell you, if that's the best defense of this clusterf*ck you can manage, I think I've been too easy on it. All sorts of dreadful things were said about Obamacare. The vast majority of them were false. What does that have to do with this?

Yes, income inequality has been increasing in the us since about 1980 , but this bill will make it worse through a huge tax cut for the wealthy. Look it up.

https://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/uninsured-rate-among-the-nonelderly-population-1972-2016q33.png?w=735&h=551&crop=1

Osborne Russell
05-04-2017, 05:02 PM
This is a gift to the Democrats. A bloody, grisly, memorable gift.

Will Rogers' dictum: The Democrats could foul up a wet dream.

skuthorp
05-04-2017, 05:07 PM
best I can tell is the whole reason for repealing the ACA is the same for not reviewing Merrick Garland because Obama introduced it. Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with this?
Absolutely nailed it. Primary object is to erase as much as possible any evidence that Obama was in office. For the obvious reasons of course.

Gerarddm
05-04-2017, 05:12 PM
Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Really make America great again.

McMike
05-04-2017, 05:19 PM
As usual; Keith, you rock.

KM Bever
05-04-2017, 07:50 PM
https://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/uninsured-rate-among-the-nonelderly-population-1972-2016q33.png?w=735&h=551&crop=1[/QUOTE]

I would like to see the usable of the AHA by patients with Hi deductibles on a graph. I work in healthcare and see (or don't see} patients that have had tests ordered but the patients can't afford to meet their deductibles. I they don't get test done. Other snares in it have added to the crap in AHA. Something else needs to come before it crashs around our heads.

Keith Wilson
05-04-2017, 09:43 PM
Several of the major things in the Republican bill. (source (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/whats-house-gop-health-care-bill/)).

- It repeals two taxes that were included in Obamacare to help pay for expansion of health coverage: a 0.9 percent Medicare payroll tax, and a 3.8 percent tax on investment income. Both apply only to individuals earning more than $200,000, and married couples who make more than $250,000 The combined cuts would give $274 billion to the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans.

- Ends federal funding for Medicaid expansion, which expanded it to people who weren't quite so poor. Some red states have refused it, but this bill would end it altogether.

- Ends income-based subsidies to purchase insurance. 83 percent of the 12.7 million people who get insurance through the exchanges receive subsidies. Individuals earning under $47,500 and families of four making under $97,200 are currently eligible.

This bill is Robin Hood in reverse - 1/4 trillion to the richest 2%, and take away to the poor's Medicaid and slightly better-off folks' subsidies to buy insurance. This is simply evil written into law. IN WHAT UNIVERSE COULD ANY SENTIENT BEING POSSIBLY THINK THIS IS MORALLY RIGHT? The Republicans have become the party of sociopaths.

oznabrag
05-04-2017, 11:24 PM
Several of the major things in the Republican bill. (source (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/whats-house-gop-health-care-bill/)).

- It repeals two taxes that were included in Obamacare to help pay for expansion of health coverage: a 0.9 percent Medicare payroll tax, and a 3.8 percent tax on investment income. Both apply only to individuals earning more than $200,000, and married couples who make more than $250,000 The combined cuts would give $274 billion to the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans.

- Ends federal funding for Medicaid expansion, which expanded it to people who weren't quite so poor. Some red states have refused it, but this bill would end it altogether.

- Ends income-based subsidies to purchase insurance. 83 percent of the 12.7 million people who get insurance through the exchanges receive subsidies. Individuals earning under $47,500 and families of four making under $97,200 are currently eligible.

This bill is Robin Hood in reverse - 1/4 trillion to the richest 2%, and take away to the poor's Medicaid and slightly better-off folks' subsidies to buy insurance. This is simply evil written into law. IN WHAT UNIVERSE COULD ANY SENTIENT BEING POSSIBLY THINK THIS IS MORALLY RIGHT? The Republicans have become the party of sociopaths.

It is a real treat to see you come to grips with the evil that is the Republican Party.

Looks like Stephen Colbert has come out swinging, as well.


Soon, these ratfreakers will have nowhere to hide.


I almost feel bad for bobbys. He has made it so plain that he backs these monsters that he has ceded plausible deniability, once their cabal unravels.

Too bad.

Duncan Gibbs
05-05-2017, 05:19 AM
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/565dc5b584307663008b6626-480/paul-ryan.jpg


Why, I can smile, and murder whiles I smile,
And cry 'Content' to that which grieves my heart,
And wet my cheeks with artificial tears,
And frame my face to all occasions.
I'll drown more sailors than the mermaid shall;
I'll slay more gazers than the basilisk;
I'll play the orator as well as Nestor,
Deceive more slily than Ulysses could,
And, like a Sinon, take another Troy.
I can add colours to the chameleon,
Change shapes with Proteus for advantages,
And set the murderous Machiavel to school.
Can I do this, and cannot get a crown?
Tut, were it farther off, I'll pluck it down.

PeterSibley
05-05-2017, 05:53 AM
There was a rumour that the USA was a Christian country but if that is so why act directly against the Bible's teachings ?

Matthew 10:8-9 to

“heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those with skin diseases, drive out demons. You have received free of charge; give free of charge.”

Tom Montgomery
05-05-2017, 06:20 AM
USA Christians tend to like the conservative Old Testament much more than the liberal New Testament.

PeterSibley
05-05-2017, 06:39 AM
In that case they should stop referring to the US as a "Christian" country.

bamamick
05-05-2017, 07:07 AM
As a Christian, I agree with you guys completely.

Mickey Lake

LeeG
05-05-2017, 07:15 AM
Only thing left is another income tax cut for the rich and a war. Support the troops ya know.

Bluefin2
05-05-2017, 07:18 AM
Lord you guys are upset with anyone who makes money. This after years of entitlement hand downs.
Maybe try working on improving your situation instead of worrying about what others are doing. jus saying

Chris Coose
05-05-2017, 07:20 AM
Whores

LeeG
05-05-2017, 07:28 AM
Making things worse for low income, elderly and disabled.

Duncan Gibbs
05-05-2017, 07:31 AM
Worth repeating:

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/565dc5b584307663008b6626-480/paul-ryan.jpg


Why, I can smile, and murder whiles I smile,
And cry 'Content' to that which grieves my heart,
And wet my cheeks with artificial tears,
And frame my face to all occasions.
I'll drown more sailors than the mermaid shall;
I'll slay more gazers than the basilisk;
I'll play the orator as well as Nestor,
Deceive more slily than Ulysses could,
And, like a Sinon, take another Troy.
I can add colours to the chameleon,
Change shapes with Proteus for advantages,
And set the murderous Machiavel to school.
Can I do this, and cannot get a crown?
Tut, were it farther off, I'll pluck it down.

PeterSibley
05-05-2017, 07:44 AM
Lord you guys are upset with anyone who makes money. This after years of entitlement hand downs.
Maybe try working on improving your situation instead of worrying about what others are doing. jus saying

"Lord you guys are upset with anyone who makes money.......''Out of the misfortune and illness of others, yes.

''This after years of entitlement hand downs. ''...... A rich society looking after it's sick is not "entitlement", it's civilisation.


'Maybe try working on improving your situation instead of worrying about what others are doing. jus saying'' What you're saying is, "forget the other person and look out for number one". Devil take the hindmost. Making America Great again.

oznabrag
05-05-2017, 07:51 AM
"Lord you guys are upset with anyone who makes money.......''Out of the misfortune and illness of others, yes.

''This after years of entitlement hand downs. ''...... A rich society looking after it's sick is not "entitlement", it's civilisation.


'Maybe try working on improving your situation instead of worrying about what others are doing. jus saying'' What you're saying is, "forget the other person and look out for number one". Devil take the hindmost. Making America Great again.








There are those amongst us for whom 'I'm alright, Jack' is a lullaby.

Keith Wilson
05-05-2017, 07:51 AM
Lord you guys are upset with anyone who makes money. This after years of entitlement hand downs.
Maybe try working on improving your situation instead of worrying about what others are doing. jus sayingSo let me get this straight: You think it's a good idea to repeal a 3.2% tax on investment income and a 0.9% payroll tax, both on people making more than 200K, to give the richest 2% of the population an additional $1/4 Trillion, and then eliminating Medicaid expansion and subsidies for poorer people to buy health insurance? You think this is morally right, and you approve of it?

You honestly think the reason I object to this is that I'm upset with anyone who makes more money?

Gentlemen, we now have a political party that is worse than a sociopath. A sociopath is at least the way he is because of something wrong in his brain, for which he has little responsibility. These people are being cruel and vicious voluntarily with full knowledge. There were once ethical and reasonable conservatives in the country; no longer, at least very few in the Republican party. Their central principle is now 'If you ain't rich, f**k you!' See our very own Bluefin2 for one sorry example.

oznabrag
05-05-2017, 07:56 AM
Keith, it took awhile, but your remarkable struggle to be reasonable has led you to the light.


I'm sure Durnik will have his own congratulations for you.

Kudos!

oznabrag
05-05-2017, 07:58 AM
One more thing, Keith. Judging from the number of typos in your post, it's clear that you really are angry.

That's a good thing, but don't get carried away. If we're going to get rid of these monsters, we're gonna need all hands.

Keith Wilson
05-05-2017, 08:30 AM
One more thing, Keith. Judging from the number of typos in your post, it's clear that you really are angry.Actually, although I was angry, I was mainly trying to finish quickly before I left for work. I think I fixed them all. Yeah, I need to get more politically active.

Too Little Time
05-05-2017, 09:03 AM
I say, as an objective fact, that people's loved ones WILL die if this bill becomes law. The amount of human suffering and misery will increase greatly. This is not open to rational dispute. Make that case if you can. But you are supporting a law that will assure these things. You cannot hide from that.
You are absolutely correct. But the fact is that the voters elected people who more or less are doing what they were elected to do. As some here have said: those who voted for Trump are the ones suffering. They were willing to suffer for some reason.

Keith Wilson
05-05-2017, 09:10 AM
A fruitful topic for another thread might be why moderate- and lower-income white folks outside the cities vote for policies that are clearly bad for them economically. Either they don't understand that, or other things are more important (or both).

Too Little Time
05-05-2017, 09:53 AM
So let me get this straight: You think it's a good idea to repeal a 3.2% tax on investment income and a 0.9% payroll tax, both on people making more than 200K, to give the richest 2% of the population an additional $1/4 Trillion, and then eliminating Medicaid expansion and subsidies for poorer people to buy health insurance? You think this is morally right, and you approve of it?

You honestly think the reason I object to this is that I'm upset with anyone who makes more money?

Gentlemen, we now have a political party that is worse than a sociopath. A sociopath is at least the way he is because of something wrong in his brain, for which he has little responsibility. These people are being cruel and vicious voluntarily with full knowledge. There were once ethical and reasonable conservatives in the country; no longer, at least very few in the Republican party. Their central principle is now 'If you ain't rich, f**k you!' See our very own Bluefin2 for one sorry example.
You seem to keep coming back the economics of the situation. If we look at the previous 8 years, financial investments doubled in value - effectively giving large raises to those with financial investment, while wages improved very little. It might be fair to say that the previous administration gave much more to those earning over $200K then this bill did. Considering that the subsidies did not cover all the costs of health care for those in the bottom 50%, money was even taken from those in the bottom 50%.

Osborne Russell
05-05-2017, 09:58 AM
A fruitful topic for another thread might be why moderate- and lower-income white folks outside the cities vote for policies that are clearly bad for them economically. Either they don't understand that, or other things are more important (or both).

American religion.

Osborne Russell
05-05-2017, 10:08 AM
You seem to keep coming back the economics of the situation. If we look at the previous 8 years, financial investments doubled in value - effectively giving large raises to those with financial investment, while wages improved very little. It might be fair to say that the previous administration gave much more to those earning over $200K then this bill did. Considering that the subsidies did not cover all the costs of health care for those in the bottom 50%, money was even taken from those in the bottom 50%.

No, it's not a raise, and an insufficient subsidy is not a reduction in wages. Unless you consider the government to be a sort of over-arching employer that sets net income as a net result of the vast web of its policies, and you call that net income wages. Why would you want to conceive the situation that way?

It's like saying the police department stopped patrolling my neighborhood so they could process illegal aliens, so when my lawnmower was stolen, my wages were reduced by the cost of replacement.

Keith Wilson
05-05-2017, 10:11 AM
TLT, there are plenty of problems with the current system, and economic inequality has been increasing in the US since 1980 at least. I would be very pleased if we could find a good way to provide health care to everyone at a reasonable cost; other developed countries seem to manage this far more effectively than the US. Someday this may happen.

But right now, that's not a realistic option. We currently have a stark choice between two alternatives: a law passed in '09 that made the situation better, and one that passed the House yesterday that makes things far, far worse.