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DangerousDave
04-22-2017, 02:11 PM
Firstly, thank you for the add and sorry if this is in the wrong forum.

I recently built a 17' clinker fishing boat and am looking at different outboard options.

New 4 stroke units with high thrust props look great, but at 2k+ are too expensive for me.

So I am thinking about a Seagull, model 90, with reverse fear.

Is is this a step backwards?

i have also looked at an inboard, but this would mean rebuilding the stern and I really don't want to!

Any advise on the best route to go?



Thank you.

nedL
04-22-2017, 08:36 PM
Could we have some more details on the type of boat? "17 ft clinker fishing boat" is rather vague and broad.
Also, would love to see some pictures.

DangerousDave
04-23-2017, 03:48 AM
I can only upload one photo at a time. It sure if I am doing it right or if the photos are too large. I will try later from my laptop.

The transom is quite high high and thus I need an outboard with 25" shaft.

I have lots lots of photos of the build. If anyone is interested is seeing them, what is the best way to upload them? A link to Dropbox?

wizbang 13
04-23-2017, 05:38 AM
Putting photos here is a pita, but if you just cnp a link, we can probably help you.

Tom Lathrop
04-23-2017, 06:16 AM
Except in special cases, Seagull outboards are a very poor choice. They are dirty, polluting, recalcitrant beasts that appeal to only contrarians and other Luddites. They are about as troublesome as Woodenboat's photo posting system and should be avoided unless you have a very colorful vocabulary. An Evinrude/Johnson 6HP would be far better if you can't handle the price of a 4 stroke. Even older versions of these will run fine on modern 50:1 oil and are easy to maintain as plenty of advice and spare parts are available.

nedL
04-23-2017, 08:08 AM
You really need to have your photos on a photo hosting site. I use a free Shutterfly account, then it is a simple 'cut and paste' from there to here.
I'd love to see pictures of you build, she looks like a very pretty little skiff.

Seagull outboards are a real 'hot button' subject, some love them, some hate them. They are incredibly simple little machines. Given the hull shape of your skiff a Seagull would move it as well as any other outboard.

Breakaway
04-23-2017, 10:15 AM
Hi

The boat looks like a beauty. Do follow the instructions above about posting pics--you cannot upload them from your computer. They have to be on the web somewhere before they can post here.






The transom is quite high high and thus I need an outboard with 25" shaft.

In the horsepower range you are probably considering, that is to say, 25 hp or less probably, your range of choices will be quite limited by this extra-long (XL) shaft length requirement. Most will be 20-inch (L, or Long Shaft) engines in this range except for several, " specialty," models sold as auxiliary power for sailboats. These are made in fewer quantity and, thus, there will be fewer of them on the used market.

The boat appears lovely and I say this only for informational purposes: One might consider notching or , cutting down, the transom to accept a 20-inch shaft length. In so doing, more engines would become available to you.

Kevin

MoePorter
04-23-2017, 11:30 AM
"Except in special cases, Seagull outboards are a very poor choice. They are dirty, polluting, recalcitrant beasts that appeal to only contrarians and other Luddites. They are about as troublesome as Woodenboat's photo posting system and should be avoided unless you have a very colorful vocabulary." Yes, terrible things. Unless you love difficult relationships that smell strong.

From the looks of your hull it's a displacement pulling boat? If so no engine will push it faster than 5kts or maybe 6 kts. 4hp would be plenty. I used a 4hp Yamaha 2-stroke on a 20 ft skiff as a trolling/backup motor and could cruise @ hull speed @ 3/4 throttle. Buzzy little thing but reliable. I'd definitely stay below 7.5hp. As a reference the 10 Honda trolling/backup motor on my 27ft 7000 lb Bolger lobster boat pushes me @ hull speed into 20 kt winds.Moe

Mark O.
04-23-2017, 01:24 PM
I had to Google them. Is this typical of the sound? Is the exhaust above water? If so, rowing would be sounding better and better. I agree they look cool...but that would give my tinnitus fits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-adwm9K77pY&t=261s He starts the motor about halfway through the video.

Breakaway
04-23-2017, 04:46 PM
^ Yep. They are air-cooled, which makes them simpler and helps endow them with durability, but does make for loud, compared to newer engines.

Kevin

Edited: As nedl pointed out, Seagulls are not air-cooled. They are water cooled. ( with some vents in the exhaust tube that are above the water). I am sorry for any confusion I may have caused. I don't know why my brain disengaged there: I OWN tow Seagull engines!! :o

Kevin

DangerousDave
04-23-2017, 05:02 PM
Thanks for the info.

Seagulls appear to be the marmite of the outboard world...

I have been using a 5hp Honda long shaft, 4 stroke. It doesn't quite have the punch into any kind of a sea. This is mainly due to the prop not being designed for a displacement hull.

Sail drive / high thrust props are available for a range of outboards and some modern ones are designed with a different gear ratio for displacement hulls.

I also have an 8hp Yamaha and a 9.9 Chrysler, both 2 stroke. More hp than that is not needed, but thrust is. I might be able to get a high thrust prop to fit the Yanmar.

The Chrysler is a love hate relationship. I extended the drive shaft and gear linkage by 5" and put in an extra leg extension. It always starts first pull but the water pump is fickle and to be honest it is a hobby, but not reliable whilst trying to collect a lobster pot near rocks in a swell and onshore wind.

So a Seagull with tons of punch and cheap as chips with the Yamaha as a backup seems like a good solution.

A new 8hp 4 stroke high thrust extra long shaft would be great, maybe I will start a crowd funder....

The transom cant be lowered as the rear thwart is there.

I have some pictures stored on Google Photos. They are of the last stages of the build and some of her afloat. This link should work....

https://goo.gl/photos/PHefaHA4N9GcopoK6 (https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOx_hlVJR62mvjNrlDvkDJqwmDfxHpatGT6puAj) Just updated this link. Should now work

I have a day off tomorrow and will attempt to put the build ones up.

For anyone interested, here is a link to an article about Mens Sheds. I built the boat in one. That shed is talked about from half way down the article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-new-male-bonding-1.474638

nedL
04-23-2017, 05:09 PM
Uhm,..... Seagull's are water cooled

Phil Y
04-23-2017, 06:11 PM
Seagulls are cool, like steam engines. But they are noisy as hell, dirty, smelly, and vibrate like crazy.

Powerwagon
04-23-2017, 06:45 PM
My first outboard was a seagull. As mentioned above they are dirty, smelly, leaky, noisy, and pollute like crazy. They are pretty reliable and usually you can make it run one more time, no matter how bad it looks. I also agree with above posters that a 6-8 hp outboard is a great choice for your size and style boat. I have a late 60s long shaft two stroke 6 hp evinrude that always starts on the second pull, has a lot of power, and is surprisingly quiet for an old two stroke. I believe it has a 'power prop' that is pitched like the 'sailmaster' or trolling editions that were designed to push a large displacement hull. Something like this.

http://i68.tinypic.com/f2v85t.jpg

Canoeyawl
04-23-2017, 07:48 PM
Seagulls are cool, like steam engines. But they are noisy as hell, dirty, smelly, and vibrate like crazy.

All of the above, but they are reliable, have a 4:1 gear reduction and swing an 11" - 4 blade propeller. They will move a barge.
I have a Seagull and like it, but I think they were designed as an auxilliary, not a main propulsion unit. Although you can do that. Earplugs and no conversation are the rules.
Looking forward to seeing pics of your boat, it looks like a beauty!

Edit to add; Tohatsu makes a 6hp "sailpro" with a high thrust propeller and a 25" shaft.
http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/6_4st.html

Breakaway
04-23-2017, 08:55 PM
Uhm,..... Seagull's are water cooled

Of course they are. Thank you for pointing out my mistake, Ned. I have amended my post.

Kevin

Thorne
04-24-2017, 08:18 AM
If an outboard is essential, then as above you'll probably need to notch the transom to take a standard longshaft outboard. Have you tried the boat in the water with an average load of people and gear? Do that before you notch the transom.

Here's how to post photos on this forum:




FIRST - Don't attach photos. Only a tiny version will display.




SECOND - Post the photos on the web. Use your own website or a free image hosting service like www.flickr.com (http://www.flickr.com/), picasaweb.google.com, picturetrail, photobucket, shutterfly, etc. Facebook is not recommended since the image URL is changed after a few months (breaking the link), and images must be set to "Public" access via the Edit option, not limited to "Friends".




THIRD - Once posted on the web, right-click the photo to "Copy Image Location", or drag the photo to another browser window, then copy the image URL / location / address which will end in ".jpg". You can test by pasting the photo URL into the location field (http://* (http://%2a/) ) of a web browser and see if the photo displays. Remember that this process will not work for photos located just on your computer, on members-only Yahoo groups, or on Facebook or Flickr unless set to "Public" view.




In Flickr - First click the photo to bring up the options on the right, click the downward arrow icon on the far right ("Download this photo"), then in the list that appears click "View All Sizes". Select the size you want (if not the default size displayed) then get the image URL by right-clicking the image to select "copy image location / address".




FOURTH - DO THIS EVERY TIME TO POST IMAGES IN THREADS:
A. In any "Reply" window you can click the "insert image" icon --> a little yellow square icon with a dot at each corner, a tiny tree in the center.




Depending on browser version and Reply/Edit status, this may bring up a simple window with a field to paste the URL into, or the "Add an Image" window described below.




B. If the window titled "Add an Image" comes up, click the "From URL" tab, paste the URL of the photo in the field, deselect the box for "Retrieve remote file and reference locally", then click the "INSERT IMAGE" button. The Forum software will resize some large images, so look at your post to see the actual displayed images.




NOTE - most common problems are due to missing the step described above -> deselect the box for "Retrieve remote file and reference locally"

David G
04-24-2017, 09:46 AM
There are ways to get a decent outboard for less than 'brand new' money. Used, in good condition is one option: craigslist, swap meets, etc.. Or... you can get a restorable, but not running, outboard for very little. Sometimes even free. Then you invest a few $$ for parts, and some hours in teaching yourself how to restore. There's an excellent book available to tell you how to go about it. But get the book first, as it tells you what old equipment is restorable, and what is not. http://duckworksbbs.com/media/books/cheap/index.htm

MoePorter
04-24-2017, 01:17 PM
"I have been using a 5hp Honda long shaft, 4 stroke. It doesn't quite have the punch into any kind of a sea. This is mainly due to the prop not being designed for a displacement hull."

I don't doubt your experience but have you tried mounting the engine off center so it gets a clean water flow - out of the way of the deadwood? I've used that engine on 22ft 4000lb sailboats - unpleasantly but successfully into SF bay afternoon chop & 20kt winds (unless the prop comes out of the water...)

That engine should be more than enough regardless of the prop (but a "power prop" would help.) Moe

DangerousDave
04-24-2017, 03:15 PM
Thank you for the posting photo info. Straightforward then!

Did the link I posted show photos or not?

DangerousDave
04-24-2017, 03:21 PM
https://goo.gl/photos/PHefaHA4N9GcopoK6"I don't doubt your experience but have you tried mounting the engine off center so it gets a clean water flow"

No! stupidly I havent!

An extra long shaft will get the prop just infront of the skeg and that does help.

Wait a minute... That means I can mount two Seagulls on the transom........

But seriously, that would make sense and with a power prop there should be plenty of thrust. I am away for a couple of weeks so took the boat out today. I will try that next time i launch.

nedL
04-24-2017, 03:55 PM
Who says you can't race a seagull???

http://cloudfront.bernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Round-The-Island-Seagull-Race-Bermuda-June-14-2014-157.jpg

Check out the Bermuda around the island Seagull race.