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jvandidden
04-16-2017, 11:30 PM
Hi there

I am in the (very) early stages of restoring a 1946 24ft carvel planked gaffer (Oregon planks on jarrah frames).

I would really appreciated some advice on the keel structure as it seems bit usual. I really want to know how it may be attached to the hull - eg; via bolts or via brackets attached to ribs. The image below shows the keel structure. The bottom steel section seem to be hollow but filled with some sort of fine powder - eg; graphite-like. There is a lead strip above this, and then piece of hardwood. I am wondering how this is all connected to the hull?

https://s30.postimg.org/8r18hfyq9/20170326_123453_copy.jpg

On the inside there are a few sections cast iron ballast near the centre of boat that are bolted in place (see image below). I want to remove these to repair timber underneath but looks like going to have to break the bolts to get them out.. There are two loose weights sitting on the ballast in the photo.

https://s8.postimg.org/5h561s6it/ballast.jpg

I am also wondering if these brackets at bottom of ribs are somehow attached to the keel. I guess one way to find out is to remove some of the planks but was hoping to avoid that is possible.

https://s27.postimg.org/szc48u6sj/keelbrackets.jpg

Any suggestions on how this keel may be attached is appreciated. Also suggestions on how to remove the ballast. Btw - She was built in Western Australia by Mackie Bros (apparently).

Thanks,
Justin

wizbang 13
04-17-2017, 01:47 AM
The "brackets" appear to be metal floors.
The purpose of a floor is to attach the frames to the wood keel.
Sometimes, ballast keel bolts go to the floors, (but I think this is piss poor planning), sometimes the ballast keel bolts only bolt to the wood keel.
Get all the loose ballast out of there, get a better look.
The strip of lead may be a gasket. I have not seen it used like that but it is the only thing I can think of.
The "graphite "substance you speak of is a mystery.
She appears to have cement poured in, one might consider busting it out to survey under it.
You should not fear removing the garboard planks, they can hide a lotta bad business.

jackster
04-17-2017, 06:57 AM
Hey, jvandidden,
Welcome to the WBF.
Looks to me that you can't see a damn thing under all the debris in the bilge.
Clean it out and and take a closer look for nuts and bolts, then send along some more pictures!
Cheers.

jvandidden
04-18-2017, 05:11 AM
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I removed the garboard as Wizbang 13 suggested.. this enabled me to lever out one the cast iron ballast sections. There was about 20mm layer of cement under the ballast. You can see the partially cleaned out section in the photo below, which provides a better view of the metal floor brackets (and how they are connected the keel).

https://s17.postimg.org/bokls9qgf/floor.jpg

And with the cement layer..

https://s12.postimg.org/7jz6uscot/cement.jpg

I also double checked the lower steel section of the keel and can confirm that it is solid and not hollow as I previously thought.

My next big issue is the rib frames. They are showing signs of some sort of dry rot in a lot of sections throughout the boat. The frames are basically three (unglued) layers of a local West Australian hardwood. The rot looks kind of black and powdery when I drill into the wood (i did that to test a few suspect sections). It seems I may need to replace quite a few of the frames - and this could be deal breaker.

Anyone have any thoughts on how far to go with replacing frames before you decide it's not worth it?

PeterSibley
04-18-2017, 05:26 AM
G'day mate, I suggest having a look at this thread. I think i may be the same design and in WA too. There may be something there for you.
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?196014-24-Len-Randell-Sloop-Rebuild

Peerie Maa
04-18-2017, 07:22 AM
It sounds as though you know naff all about wooden boats. I suggest that you find an experienced wood boat surveyor to go over her.

jvandidden
04-18-2017, 08:51 AM
Peter - thanks for the thread link... amazing effort. And yes, similar boat...

Nick - Yep steep learning curve.. Day 1 today ;) Point taken though re: boat surveyor.

I guess anything can be rebuilt - just depends on how much time and effort you want to put in. For some the limit may be replacing 2 frames, and for others it might be total rebuild.. I'm still working that bit out.. ;) The boat basically cost nothing to acquire and I'm at the stage where I want to work out the effort before diving in further. It looks doable and I'm keen though..

Peerie Maa
04-18-2017, 09:56 AM
Nick - Yep steep learning curve.. Day 1 today ;) Point taken though re: boat surveyor.

I guess anything can be rebuilt - just depends on how much time and effort you want to put in. For some the limit may be replacing 2 frames, and for others it might be total rebuild.. I'm still working that bit out.. ;) The boat basically cost nothing to acquire and I'm at the stage where I want to work out the effort before diving in further. It looks doable and I'm keen though..

The surveyor will be able to tell you whether the blackening in the frames is rot or just iron/tannin staining. Instead of using a drill, next time use a bradawl or electricians screw driver. If you cannot push them in (blade across the grain) the wood is wet but sound.

Jay Greer
04-18-2017, 11:34 AM
What I see looks more like electrolytic attack on the frames than rot as the copper boat nails are really pink and the wood is fuzzy. This may just be a localized situation. But if it is the opinion of the surveyor you hire, you need to really evaluate this hull before diving in to a project that may be more of a problem than building a new boat. I am not being a nay sayer here but just seeing a lot of work ahead for a guy that may not be ready to take on a large re-build. Please give us some pictures of the hull rather than the bad areas. How old is the boat?
Jay