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Keith Wilson
03-21-2017, 11:26 AM
New York Times editorial today (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/opinion/all-the-presidents-lies.html?_r=1). The original has lots of links that corroborate what he's saying.


All the President’s LiesDavid Leonhardt


The ninth week of Donald Trump’s presidency began with the F.B.I. director calling him a liar.

The director, the very complicated James Comey, didn’t use the L-word in his congressional testimony Monday. Comey serves at the pleasure of the president, after all. But his meaning was clear as could be. Trump has repeatedly accused Barack Obama of wiretapping his phones, and Comey explained there is “no information that supports” the claim.

I’ve previously argued that not every untruth deserves to be branded with the L-word, because it implies intent and somebody can state an untruth without doing so knowingly. George W. Bush didn’t lie when he said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and Obama didn’t lie when he said people who liked their current health insurance could keep it. They made careless statements that proved false (and they deserved much of the criticism they got).

But the current president of the United States lies. He lies in ways that no American politician ever has before. He has lied about — among many other things — Obama’s birthplace, John F. Kennedy’s assassination, Sept. 11, the Iraq War, ISIS, NATO, military veterans, Mexican immigrants, Muslim immigrants, anti-Semitic attacks, the unemployment rate, the murder rate, the Electoral College, voter fraud and his groping of women. He tells so many untruths that it’s time to leave behind the textual parsing over which are unwitting and which are deliberate — as well as the condescending notion that most of Trump’s supporters enjoy his lies.

Trump sets out to deceive people. As he has put it, “I play to people’s fantasies.” Caveat emptor: When Donald Trump says something happened, it should not change anyone’s estimation of whether the event actually happened. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. His claim doesn’t change the odds.

Which brings us to Russia. Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential campaign was an attack on the United States. It’s the kind of national-security matter that a president and members of Congress swear to treat with utmost seriousness when they take the oath of office. Yet now it has become the subject of an escalating series of lies by the president and the people who work for him.

As Comey was acknowledging on Monday that the F.B.I. was investigating possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign, Trump was lying about it. From both his personal Twitter account and the White House account, he told untruths.

A few hours later, his press secretary, Sean Spicer, went before the cameras and lied about the closeness between Trump and various aides who have documented Russian ties. Do you remember Paul Manafort, the chairman of Trump’s campaign, who ran the crucial delegate-counting operation? Spicer said Manafort had a “very limited role” in said campaign.

The big question now is not what Trump and the White House are saying about the Russia story. They will evidently say anything. The questions are what really happened and who can uncover the truth.

The House of Representatives, unfortunately, will not be doing so. I was most saddened during Comey’s testimony not by the White House’s response, which I’ve come to expect, but by the Republican House members questioning him. They are members of a branch of government that the Constitution holds as equal to the presidency, but they acted like Trump staff members, decrying leaks about Russia’s attack rather than the attack itself. The Watergate equivalent is claiming that Deep Throat was worse than Haldeman, Ehrlichman and Nixon.

It fell to Adam Schiff, a Democratic representative from Southern California, to lay out the suspicious ties between Trump and Russia (while also hinting he couldn’t describe some classified details). Schiff did so in a calm, nine-minute monologue that’s worth watching. He walked through pro-Putin payments to Michael Flynn and through another Trump’s aide’s advance notice of John Podesta’s hacked email and through the mysterious struggle over the Republican Party platform on Ukraine. “Is it possible that all of these events and reports are completely unrelated, and nothing more than an entirely unhappy coincidence? Yes, it is possible,” Schiff said. “But it is also possible, maybe more than possible, that they are not coincidental, not disconnected and not unrelated, and that the Russians used the same techniques to corrupt U.S. persons that they have employed in Europe and elsewhere. We simply don’t know, not yet, and we owe it to the country to find out.”

Comey, as much as liberals may loathe him for his 2016 bungling, seems to be one of the few public officials with the ability and willingness to pursue the truth. I dearly hope that Republican members of the Senate are patriotic enough to do so as well.

Our president is a liar, and we need to find out how serious his latest lies are.

pkrone
03-21-2017, 11:28 AM
A politician not telling the truth? Shocking...

Keith Wilson
03-21-2017, 11:37 AM
A politician not telling the truth? Shocking...Nope. It won't fly; this is not politics as usual. Politicians of all kinds often shade the truth and are selective in what they bring up, and some actually lie. But I have seen nobody in US politics as long as I can remember: liberal, conservative, Republican, Democrat, or other, who lies anything close to as constantly and about as many things as Mr. Trump. This is not normal.

Jim Mahan
03-21-2017, 11:40 AM
A politician not telling the truth? Shocking...


But the current president of the United States lies. He lies in ways that no American politician ever has before.

Disengenuous attempt at pervasive fallacy. Did you miss this sentence or do you have a decent reason to disagree with it?

oznabrag
03-21-2017, 11:40 AM
The Morons have found their Messiah: The Sleazy Jesus.

John of Phoenix
03-21-2017, 11:43 AM
A politician not telling the truth? Shocking...Remarkable.

This is the level to which reds have descended - out the bottom of the barrel.

Canoez
03-21-2017, 11:59 AM
This is not normal.

This needs to be repeated again, and again, and again.

Peerie Maa
03-21-2017, 12:15 PM
A politician not telling the truth? Shocking...

You are happy to be lied too?

Remarkable.

pkrone
03-21-2017, 12:29 PM
You are happy to be lied too?

Remarkable.

Did I say I was happy?

Peerie Maa
03-21-2017, 12:54 PM
Did I say I was happy?

Well, we have to assume that you keep on voting for them. Or else they would not keep on doing it.

LeeG
03-21-2017, 01:27 PM
This is absolutely not normal. Indifference to objective facts unless it furthers "the sale". Wholesale shift of billions of dollars from nation building to nation destroying capabilities. Implementation of policies designed to satisfy an ignorant and xenophobic electorate that are self defeating.

Lew Barrett
03-21-2017, 01:34 PM
A politician not telling the truth? Shocking...

I thought they voted for him because he wasn't a politician. Now it's OK that he's a politician? Of course, they always knew he was a liar but what does that matter when Pat Robertson declares he's been anointed by god (http://www.inquisitr.com/3986825/pat-robertson-trump-is-gods-anointed-people-opposing-him-are-opposing-god/).

Garret
03-21-2017, 01:40 PM
The most disheartening thing about it is that the Reps in Congress seems absolutely fine with it. That Trump lies continuously is not news to anyone who has followed/studied his history.

While the rest of the world is laughing at is, and growing increasingly worried, nothing is happening to bring this to an end.

This sickens me.

Canoez
03-21-2017, 01:42 PM
Best quote I've seen recently was something to the effect that:

1) The house is on fire.
2) Trump is running around with matches
3) Republicans want to find and prosecute whoever called the fire department.

TomF
03-21-2017, 01:55 PM
A politician not telling the truth? Shocking...Folks, I don't think anyone has to conclude that this is a statement of support for the POTUS.

oznabrag
03-21-2017, 02:05 PM
Folks, I don't think anyone has to conclude that this is a statement of support for the POTUS.

Me, neither.

I think Dr. Krone is very much welcome at the barbecue, though I believe his political cynicism is, perhaps, too great.

TMny
03-21-2017, 03:32 PM
Ayub... losing control of the narrative. Credibility, or at least a functional narrative, is essential to legitimacy, which enables/energizes governance.

(1) From above (Leonhardt) "The big question now is not what Trump and the White House are saying about the Russia story. They will evidently say anything. The questions are what really happened and who can uncover the truth."
(2) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/opinion/americas-epidemic-of-infallibility.html
America’s Epidemic of Infallibility Paul Krugman MARCH 20, 2017
"Trump’s pathological inability to accept responsibility is just the culmination of a trend. American politics — at least on one side of the aisle — is suffering from an epidemic of infallibility, of powerful people who never, ever admit to making a mistake."
(3)https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/opinion/trumps-method-our-madness.html
Trump’s Method, Our Madness Joel Whitebook MARCH 20, 2017
"Freud distinguished between neurosis and psychosis by arguing that while the former is psychically localized, the latter is relatively global. In neurosis, individuals break with a portion of reality that they find intolerable....In contrast, because psychotic individuals tend to find reality as a whole too painful to bear, they break with it globally, and construct an alternative, delusional, “magical” reality of their own..... Trumpism as a social-psychological phenomenon has aspects reminiscent of psychosis, in that it entails a systematic — and it seems likely intentional — attack on our relation to reality.... Trump has radicalized this strategy in a way that aims to subvert our relation to reality in general."
(4) https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-trump-faces-his-hardest-truth-he-was-wrong/2017/03/20/af9cabfc-0d83-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html?utm_term=.b82b784850e0
President Trump faces his hardest truth: He was wrong By Philip Rucker and Ashley Parker March 20
(5) https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-american-presidency-is-shrinking-before-the-worlds-eyes/2017/03/20/17db10ca-0d9b-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?utm_term=.82132306241e
The American presidency is shrinking before the world’s eyes By Michael Gerson Opinion writer March 20
(6) https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-trump-administration-dons-a-tinfoil-hat/2017/03/13/597d65d0-082a-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html?utm_term=.8292275982dd The Trump administration dons a tinfoil hat By Catherine Rampell Opinion writer March 13

pkrone
03-21-2017, 03:48 PM
Folks, I don't think anyone has to conclude that this is a statement of support for the POTUS.

Thanks, Tom.

John of Phoenix
03-21-2017, 03:53 PM
This is all very interesting but rather than posting it in a thread titled "Liar!" it might have its own thread titled "Crazy!".


Ayub... losing control of the narrative. Credibility, or at least a functional narrative, is essential to legitimacy, which enables/energizes governance.

(1) From above (Leonhardt) "The big question now is not what Trump and the White House are saying about the Russia story. They will evidently say anything. The questions are what really happened and who can uncover the truth."
(2) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/opinion/americas-epidemic-of-infallibility.html
America’s Epidemic of Infallibility Paul Krugman MARCH 20, 2017
"Trump’s pathological inability to accept responsibility is just the culmination of a trend. American politics — at least on one side of the aisle — is suffering from an epidemic of infallibility, of powerful people who never, ever admit to making a mistake."
(3)https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/opinion/trumps-method-our-madness.html
Trump’s Method, Our Madness Joel Whitebook MARCH 20, 2017
"Freud distinguished between neurosis and psychosis by arguing that while the former is psychically localized, the latter is relatively global. In neurosis, individuals break with a portion of reality that they find intolerable....In contrast, because psychotic individuals tend to find reality as a whole too painful to bear, they break with it globally, and construct an alternative, delusional, “magical” reality of their own..... Trumpism as a social-psychological phenomenon has aspects reminiscent of psychosis, in that it entails a systematic — and it seems likely intentional — attack on our relation to reality.... Trump has radicalized this strategy in a way that aims to subvert our relation to reality in general."
(4) https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-trump-faces-his-hardest-truth-he-was-wrong/2017/03/20/af9cabfc-0d83-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html?utm_term=.b82b784850e0
President Trump faces his hardest truth: He was wrong By Philip Rucker and Ashley Parker March 20
(5) https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-american-presidency-is-shrinking-before-the-worlds-eyes/2017/03/20/17db10ca-0d9b-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?utm_term=.82132306241e
The American presidency is shrinking before the world’s eyes By Michael Gerson Opinion writer March 20
(6) https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-trump-administration-dons-a-tinfoil-hat/2017/03/13/597d65d0-082a-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html?utm_term=.8292275982dd The Trump administration dons a tinfoil hat By Catherine Rampell Opinion writer March 13

webishop14
03-21-2017, 04:23 PM
Please, no. Not that. Patsy Cline's "Crazy" shouldn't be sullied by the likes of SCROTUS Spews.