PDA

View Full Version : Tussle with judiciary and Russian connections



Syed
03-20-2017, 11:51 AM
With start like this I doubt if he is going to last for the full term.

Draketail
03-20-2017, 12:02 PM
We should be so blessed as to have an early end.....

Keith Wilson
03-20-2017, 12:18 PM
From your keyboard to God's ears.

skuthorp
03-20-2017, 04:31 PM
I wouldn't place too much faith in god's reliability in these matters myself..............

Canoeyawl
03-20-2017, 05:23 PM
I wouldn't place too much faith in god's reliability in these matters myself..............

The problem with a belief based solution

Gerarddm
03-20-2017, 05:51 PM
Deus vult!

Or, inshallah.

You get the picture.

Keith Wilson
03-20-2017, 05:52 PM
I wouldn't place too much faith in god's reliability in these matters myself . . . I don't. God, if he exists, certainly doesn't appear to stop people from doing stupid or horrible things when they're really determined. It was just a cute way of saying 'I hope you're right'.

Lew Barrett
03-20-2017, 06:27 PM
With start like this I doubt if he is going to last for the full term.

Inshallah.

Syed
03-21-2017, 06:34 AM
Inshallah.

|:)

Masha'Allah !

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
03-21-2017, 06:37 AM
With start like this I doubt if he is going to last for the full term.

Except for the prospect of Pence. All of the evil. Less of the warning signs and incompetence.

skuthorp
03-21-2017, 04:53 PM
I think he's made quite a good start at nobbling any effective moves to remove him. His major appointments seem not to have deputies or even backup so if Tillerson is OS Trump makes the decisions. Whole areas of governance have no heads of departments, he forestalls much of departmental decision making by his twitter feed and what have been traditional advisors on policy and priorities and security are likely to be, with the appointment of Ivanka, twice removed from actual contact.
He's doing a good job of taking over the country, and only over reach will likely stop him.

Jim Mahan
03-21-2017, 05:23 PM
Except for the prospect of Pence. All of the evil. Less of the warning signs and incompetence.

Do you think, honestly curious here as opposed to being rhetorical, that Pence's public avowal of ignorance of Flynn's lies was genuine? It implied that he has some innocent distance from the center of the escalating scandal. I think it might have been a ruse for two purposes, to keep Pense out of the sticky net of the investigation, thereby insuring the Rs get to keep the White House if t'chmp eventually goes down, and in the short term, to provide another shiny object. It might also have been a form of leverage for blackmail, to keep him from disavowing membership in the cabal with culpable knowlege of the treason, for the same reason, to try to preserve an R White House, in the event.

PeterSibley
03-21-2017, 05:25 PM
Except for the prospect of Pence. All of the evil. Less of the warning signs and incompetence.

True, Trump may be the lesser of two weevils.

johnw
03-21-2017, 05:27 PM
They won't remove him as long as he's popular with the base. Isn't he still running about 80% approval among Republicans? They won't impeach or otherwise remove him while the base still loves him.

Keith Wilson
03-21-2017, 05:34 PM
They won't remove him as long as he's popular with the base. Isn't he still running about 80% approval among Republicans? They won't impeach or otherwise remove him while the base still loves him.Exactly. Here's a very depressing chart, reflecting polarization more than anything . . . at least I hope that's what it shows; the idea that this blithering idiocy is what 80% of Republicans wanted all along is highly unpleasant to contemplate.


http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_gallup_republican_presidents_approval_2017_03 _19.jpg

johnw
03-21-2017, 06:01 PM
Exactly. Here's a very depressing chart, reflecting polarization more than anything . . . at least I hope that's what it shows; the idea that this blithering idiocy is what 80% of Republicans wanted all along is highly unpleasant to contemplate.


http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_gallup_republican_presidents_approval_2017_03 _19.jpg
.

Oh, good lord. That's the scariest chart you've ever posted.

Garret
03-21-2017, 06:04 PM
.

Oh, good lord. That's the scariest chart you've ever posted.

For sure! How can there be such a huge difference between Reps & others?

johnw
03-21-2017, 06:36 PM
For sure! How can there be such a huge difference between Reps & others?
.

For one thing, it used to be that about the same number of people with authoritarian personality type belonged to each party. There's been some sorting, and at this point, most of them are in the Republican Party.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/NoTipBzD6N8jrmcTtMywWJ4txGQ=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6124603/Trump_poll2.0.0.jpg

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism

Keith Wilson
03-21-2017, 06:42 PM
OK, that chart was just wrong. The guy who posted it just got the numbers wrong and has since corrected it (source (http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/03/correction-heres-how-trump-doing-among-republican-voters)). Sorry, I hate to post something so far off, even though the correction is rather reassuring. Trump's support among Republicans is not unusual at all.


http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_gallup_republican_presidents_approval.jpg

paulf
03-21-2017, 07:00 PM
OK, that chart was just wrong. The guy who posted it just got the numbers wrong and has since corrected it (source (http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/03/correction-heres-how-trump-doing-among-republican-voters)). Sorry, I hate to post something so far off, even though the correction is rather reassuring. Trump's support among Republicans is not unusual at all.


http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_gallup_republican_presidents_approval.jpg

Trump is there because they want him there. The wealthy own us, and everything else.
They will use this until it does not suit them anymore.

Then, move on to another foot hold. You, us, will lose in the end.

This game will never go in the direction you want, if you are a small fish. Has always been, will always be.

johnw
03-21-2017, 07:16 PM
Trump is there because they want him there. The wealthy own us, and everything else.
They will use this until it does not suit them anymore.

Then, move on to another foot hold. You, us, will lose in the end.

This game will never go in the direction you want, if you are a small fish. Has always been, will always be.
.

And yet, in the '40s, the country worked quite differently, and the rich didn't get everything they wanted. Something has changed.

johnw
03-21-2017, 07:17 PM
OK, that chart was just wrong. The guy who posted it just got the numbers wrong and has since corrected it (source (http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/03/correction-heres-how-trump-doing-among-republican-voters)). Sorry, I hate to post something so far off, even though the correction is rather reassuring. Trump's support among Republicans is not unusual at all.


http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_gallup_republican_presidents_approval.jpg
.

Thanks, I feel much better now.

Keith Wilson
03-21-2017, 07:22 PM
Trump is there because they want him there. The wealthy own us, and everything else. They will use this until it does not suit them anymore. Then, move on to another foot hold. You, us, will lose in the end. This game will never go in the direction you want, if you are a small fish. Has always been, will always be.History shows this is not true. Sometimes, but definitely not always.

C. Ross
03-21-2017, 07:24 PM
Nor is it really materially different from Democratic voter support for Democratic presidents.

The only hopeful prospect is that "independent" is the largest "party" in the U.S.

There is a game theory / bargaining puzzle here. The Republicans are running mostly hard right candidates. There is some evidence the Democrats are running slightly to the left. There ought to be candidates in the center, but there aren't. When the time comes that one of the parties can pivot and own the center, the country will change. Maybe dramatically.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-04-08-1428494648-4757083-PewPartyIDTrends19392014.png

johnw
03-21-2017, 07:29 PM
Nor is it really materially different from Democratic voter support for Democratic presidents.

The only hopeful prospect is that "independent" is the largest "party" in the U.S.

There is a game theory / bargaining puzzle here. The Republicans are running mostly hard right candidates. There is some evidence the Democrats are running slightly to the left. There ought to be candidates in the center, but there aren't. When the time comes that one of the parties can pivot and own the center, the country will change. Maybe dramatically.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-04-08-1428494648-4757083-PewPartyIDTrends19392014.png
.

What would be required to realize that dream is competitive districts.

C. Ross
03-21-2017, 07:35 PM
.

What would be required to realize that dream is competitive districts.

At most that explains the House. It does not explain the White House, Senate, governorships, and most state legislatures. Which look like the House.

Gerrymandering is a thing, but it's getting shopworn. "The sun got in my eyes!"

johnw
03-21-2017, 07:51 PM
At most that explains the House. It does not explain the White House, Senate, governorships, and most state legislatures. Which look like the House.

Gerrymandering is a thing, but it's getting shopworn. "The sun got in my eyes!"
.

The senate should be less polarized, but there's still a rural/urban divide based on the states. One big driver for the polarization we see is the hangover from the Civil Rights movement. The Northern democrats didn't move much, but the party lost their conservative Southern Democrats.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/NOMINATE_polarization.jpg

That happened on a regional basis, not a district basis. But fixing gerrymandering would be a start. You are wrong to think it's only gerrymandering I'm talking about.

CWSmith
03-21-2017, 08:09 PM
A lot of US Presidents have had administrations touched by controversy and corruption.

Interestingly, not Obama.

I have never seen so many people so very close to a President touched by the same charge of corruption. All around Trump there is talk of Russian involvement. It grows increasingly improbable that Trump is not involved.

paulf
03-21-2017, 08:15 PM
History shows this is not true. Sometimes, but definitely not always.

Oh really? If you look back over our entire history it has been the status quo. You can only name very brief periods when things were in favor of the common folk.

Dream on .

elf
03-21-2017, 08:21 PM
I still have a lot of trouble with the idea that Trump has much smarts involved in this. With Nixon we understood that he was not a stupid man. Pinning malfeasance on him didn't grate against the appearance of an essential lack of intelligence. It was simply not credible that he didn't know, wasn't involved in, what happened.

With Trump I still find it just as likely that he's just being his shallow, self-important self and basically not wiley or even intelligent enough to be pulling any viable strings.

The problem, it seems to me, is the people who have attached themselves to his carnival - the Pences and Bannons and Trump children. It's not that they're telling him how to behave, writing the tweets while little Donald sleeps on unaware. It's that they're lighting the fires under his apoplexy, feeding his vanity, liberating his self-aggrandizing outrage. I'd like to see evidence that they're also up at 3 and 4 in the morning, helping him find the words to express his outrage and little explosions, leaving little notes around where he goes for mid-night snack, prodding his vanity.

He just comes across as a person with little sense of direction, someone who flails at every mosquito that flies past whether it was going for his arm or not.

Keith Wilson
03-21-2017, 08:27 PM
More recent data, but not much change:
\
https://i2.wp.com/k7moa.com/images/house_means_46_114.png

https://i2.wp.com/k7moa.com/images/senate_means_46_114.png

johnw
03-22-2017, 05:44 PM
More recent data, but not much change:
\
https://i2.wp.com/k7moa.com/images/house_means_46_114.png

https://i2.wp.com/k7moa.com/images/senate_means_46_114.png

The Democrats are a whole lot closer to the center, but I guess we knew that.