The Democrats should confirm this guy

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  • Norman Bernstein
    Liberaltarian
    • Nov 2004
    • 25217

    The Democrats should confirm this guy

    Yeah, I said it.

    There's a reason why, though.

    First, no one can reasonably expect that ANY Supreme Court justice nominated by Trump (or, if he doesn't make it through his first term, by Pence) would be anything less than an attempt to nominate a Scalia clone. The Republicans presently don't have the slightest reason to compromise. I don't know much about this guy Gorsuch, but I have no reason to believe that he's going to say anything in his hearing which will give away a political agenda; he could very well have decided to partake in a reversal of Roe v. Wade if it comes up to the SCOTUS again, for example... but supreme court nominees never reveal any hard prejudices... you don't find out about them until they are seated.

    The problem with attempting to block his confirmation is more serious: the Republicans COULD invoke the 'nuclear option', reducing the margin from 60 votes, to 51 votes, for a Supreme Court nominee. This is something McConnell doesn't want to do, because he's one of the few GOP senators who recognize that doing so would come back to bite him in a future vote, if, down the road, there are a few GOP defectors who are as distressed and fed up with Trump as many of us are. It hurts the Democratic cause even more, though.

    It would be far better to save the supermajority for things which are 1) more important, and 2) likely to come up within the next year. It is also true that a continuation of 4-4 ties in SCOTUS are a very bad thing for the country... leaving important decisions in limbo. There is no guarantee that Gorsuch will result in as string of 5-4 decisions; many times in the past, judges nominated and confirmed on the basis of their political views, have voted the opposite way.

    Let's just swallow this bitter pill... and work towards 2018 and 2020.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






  • Norman Bernstein
    Liberaltarian
    • Nov 2004
    • 25217

    #2
    Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

    And now for an OPPOSING opinion:

    First Read: “A year ago, it was Senate Republicans refusing to even grant a hearing to Barack Obama’s Supreme Court pick, and Democrats complaining of obstruction. And now the roles are reversed: Senate Democrats are vowing to filibuster Gorsuch’s nomination, while Republicans are the ones demanding a fair hearing…”

    “But here’s the reality of things in the U.S. Senate: 100% obstruction works, and the offending party pays almost no price. (You could argue that, in 2012, Mitt Romney paid a price for GOP obstructionism, but the senators and congressmen never did.) That’s how Republicans won in the 2010 and 2014 midterms, and how they’re on the brink of replacing Antonin Scalia with Neil Gorsuch — instead of Merrick Garland. And it’s why Democrats will probably dig their heels here, even if it will be difficult (if not impossible) to deny Gorsuch confirmation.”

    Jonathan Chait: “Democrats have an extremely simple choice. They can make McConnell abolish the filibuster, or wait for the day when McConnell attacks them for doing it. It is McConnell, his extraordinary blockade tactic, who has functionally changed the rules of the game. He should be forced to do it in name.”
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






    Comment

    • Figment
      Gluten Enthusiast
      • Dec 2001
      • 13641

      #3
      Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

      meh. At least hold him up long enough to make a deal on something else that matters.

      That's the only language Drumpf understands anyway.
      People today will buy a car with square wheels as long as the steering wheel is heated.

      Comment

      • LeeG
        Senior Member
        • May 2002
        • 72803

        #4
        Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

        I don't see value in obstructing his appt if he's competent. Just because McConnel and the Republicans are slimy deplorable worms doesn't mean the Dems have to be.

        Comment

        • George Jung
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2004
          • 31057

          #5
          Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

          Good thoughts - but 'on principle', it just seems wrong to reward the Republicans for being such bastids. But perhaps the long game - aiming for congressional elections in 2 yrs - makes sense. I certainly haven't looked at what's coming up now, or anticipated how the next 2 yrs should be planned.
          There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

          Comment

          • Canoez
            Did I say that out loud?
            • Sep 2007
            • 20615

            #6
            Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

            While Supreme Court justices often telegraph where they stand as Federal Judges, once they reach the Court, they can be a surprise for all involved. A nominee who will uphold the Constitution and the law in general will do less harm than the Executive branch will by ignoring Court decisions (Federal and Supreme) that it doesn't like.
            "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
            -William A. Ward

            Comment

            • TomF
              Recalcitrant Heretic
              • Jun 2003
              • 50978

              #7
              Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

              Originally posted by LeeG
              I don't see value in obstructing his appt if he's competent. Just because McConnel and the Republicans are slimy deplorable worms doesn't mean the Dems have to be.
              I agree. "Be the change you want to see" and all that. If he were incompetent, or appeared rabidly this or that, I'd argue for quite a different approach. I'm surprised, actually, at how sane a choice this appears. (Though I still think he missed an incredible political opportunity in not nominating Garland.)

              Figment, I think that it almost doesn't matter what "message" is sent to Trump - he's only going to hear what the voices in his head tell him. He's not going to trade a favour in return for getting his nominee through - he's only going to get petulant. This is possibly the least narcissistic nomination he could have made (though the announcement was nauseatingly self-referential!), but any pushback will trigger a full-on narcissistic response. That won't serve the country.
              If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

              Comment

              • Norman Bernstein
                Liberaltarian
                • Nov 2004
                • 25217

                #8
                Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

                Meanwhile, here's a link to Gorsuch's thinking about one issue:

                "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






                Comment

                • Chris Coose
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2001
                  • 12283

                  #9
                  Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

                  Considering where the Democrats stand right now, this is not the battle to pick.
                  Matter of fact, if they just turned their backs and let this thing slide they'd be doing themselves a big favor for a variety of reasons.

                  The craziest governor in the world is likely to go after Angus (independent) King's Senate seat her in Maine. Some fool Democrats are wondering if they should place a candidate into the race and cause a duplicate 3 person race, once again allowing Governor Crazy to slide through to the Senate!
                  Study Peace

                  Comment

                  • Chris Smith porter maine
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 5684

                    #10
                    Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

                    I think they should take a hard look at the upcoming court cases and time his approval to their best advantage.

                    Comment

                    • Garret
                      Hills of Vermont
                      • Apr 2005
                      • 48655

                      #11
                      Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

                      Originally posted by Chris Coose
                      Considering where the Democrats stand right now, this is not the battle to pick.
                      Matter of fact, if they just turned their backs and let this thing slide they'd be doing themselves a big favor for a variety of reasons.

                      The craziest governor in the world is likely to go after Angus (independent) King's Senate seat her in Maine. Some fool Democrats are wondering if they should place a candidate into the race and cause a duplicate 3 person race, once again allowing Governor Crazy to slide through to the Senate!
                      Will someone in Maine talk sense to the idiots who insist on these 3 way races? They might just as well vote for LePage. Angus is a good man - keep him in there!
                      "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

                      Comment

                      • Canoez
                        Did I say that out loud?
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 20615

                        #12
                        Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

                        Originally posted by Sky Blue
                        I believe this is correct and shows a kernel of understanding, now, of the Trump tactical approach.

                        Obstruct this nominee, and Trump will respond with a true neanderthal, rammed down the Democrats' throat on an exercise of the nuclear option. McConnell would probably like to keep that card unplayed unless and until it is absolutely crucial. Now isn't that time, unless the Democrats force that hand.
                        McConnell is loathe to play that card because it cuts both ways. A shift in the makeup of the Senate could be devastating to Republicans (as well as Democrats) should that be exercised.
                        "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
                        -William A. Ward

                        Comment

                        • Gerarddm
                          #RESIST
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 32468

                          #13
                          Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

                          #6: Dwight Eisenhower nominated Earl Warren, who he thought would be reliably conservative. Imagine his surprise how Warren's tenure as Chief Justice turned out.

                          I have always thought Warren was very remorseful over his role with the Japanese-American internment camps in WWII when he was governor of California, and he compensated by heading a liberal-leaning SCOTUS.

                          Gorsuch doesn't seem to have much to repent about, though.
                          Gerard>
                          Albuquerque, NM

                          Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

                          Comment

                          • George Jung
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 31057

                            #14
                            Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

                            All precedents have the potential to come back and bite ya on the buttocks.

                            As the Republicans have sowed, they will reap.

                            (they like those bible quotes)
                            There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

                            Comment

                            • bobbys
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2009
                              • 30711

                              #15
                              Re: The Democrats should confirm this guy

                              Originally posted by Norman Bernstein
                              Yeah, I said it.

                              There's a reason why, though.

                              First, no one can reasonably expect that ANY Supreme Court justice nominated by Trump (or, if he doesn't make it through his first term, by Pence) would be anything less than an attempt to nominate a Scalia clone. The Republicans presently don't have the slightest reason to compromise. I don't know much about this guy Gorsuch, but I have no reason to believe that he's going to say anything in his hearing which will give away a political agenda; he could very well have decided to partake in a reversal of Roe v. Wade if it comes up to the SCOTUS again, for example... but supreme court nominees never reveal any hard prejudices... you don't find out about them until they are seated.

                              The problem with attempting to block his confirmation is more serious: the Republicans COULD invoke the 'nuclear option', reducing the margin from 60 votes, to 51 votes, for a Supreme Court nominee. This is something McConnell doesn't want to do, because he's one of the few GOP senators who recognize that doing so would come back to bite him in a future vote, if, down the road, there are a few GOP defectors who are as distressed and fed up with Trump as many of us are. It hurts the Democratic cause even more, though.

                              It would be far better to save the supermajority for things which are 1) more important, and 2) likely to come up within the next year. It is also true that a continuation of 4-4 ties in SCOTUS are a very bad thing for the country... leaving important decisions in limbo. There is no guarantee that Gorsuch will result in as string of 5-4 decisions; many times in the past, judges nominated and confirmed on the basis of their political views, have voted the opposite way.

                              Let's just swallow this bitter pill... and work towards 2018 and 2020.
                              .

                              Norm is not stating the real or one of the reasons for the thread.

                              It's said 10 or so democrat senators will be running in states that Trump took by a wide margin.

                              To save themselves it crucial they appear. Moderate not bat wing crazy left..

                              This is not the battle they need.

                              So the white goes up..

                              The democrat party sinks deeper , the left wing crazes will be fighting with anyone going to the middle.

                              Comment

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