PDA

View Full Version : A sobering video



Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 09:33 AM
Well worth watching, when you're considering what it means to be an American


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaYhcgwsfgg

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 10:28 AM
Bump, because it really IS worth watching

Gerarddm
01-26-2017, 10:36 AM
Tangentially, NYPD now allows Sikh officers to wear turbans and keep their beards. Cool.

Lew Barrett
01-26-2017, 10:42 AM
Terry Gross interviewed him a few days ago on Fresh Air. Smart guy. The interview can be heard as a podcast on NPR's stream.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 10:59 AM
It is outrageous, this kind of institutionalized bigotry and official misconduct.

On the other hand, when members of your faith murder thousands of your fellow citizens in the name of their God, including many police and firemen, it would be naive to expect that there would not be blowback, no matter how unfair. When terrorism has become instantly identifiable with your faith in the modern age, some people will not respond favorably to you. When some members of your faith have very different cultural ideas about the role of women , for example, people will want to see a commitment to assimilationism.

This is why things go well when the uniform is on. It presents an assimilationist message.

By contrast, and despite there being nothing in Islam that requires special dress emphasizing's one's cultural or religious difference, to do so will always draw some unpleasantness from some people.

These are the wages of multiculturalism.

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 11:18 AM
These are the wages of multiculturalism.

No. They are the wages of intolerance and bigotry.

Peerie Maa
01-26-2017, 11:19 AM
These are the wages of multiculturalism.

No, those are the wages of ignorance and bigotry.

Snap!

xflow7
01-26-2017, 11:26 AM
On the other hand, when members of your faith murder thousands of your fellow citizens in the name of their God, including many police and firemen, it would be naive to expect that there would not be blowback, no matter how unfair.

F*** that.

Why do police officers, soldiers and marines, gun owners, and white people in general get to fall back on the "few bad apples" defense against any suspicion by anyone about their motives, while Muslims and people of color in general are expected to tolerate the same?

F*** that.

Dave

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 11:27 AM
No. They are the wages of intolerance and bigotry.

No, again, consider his comments about the uniform. It presents an assimilationist message, despite the obvious indication that he is a Muslim. When off duty, however, things are different, for his cultural and religious difference are emphasized, but are uncoupled from an assimilationist message.

Asking ordinary people to suffer a massive terror event but respond perfectly to any innocent Muslim they see, like "hey, it's all good," is an awful lot to ask of people.

I grow weary of this kind of multicultural shaming, which continues to be the exclusive province of the multiculturalist Left. Why have we never seen a panel of Muslims from all walks of life, made to sit, and hear, and respond to, the stories, pain and loss experienced by the families of 9-11 victims, or other Muslim terrorist killings?

Why have we never seen such a panel be made to explain how their cultural differences and expectations comport with the values and creeds of the US?

Because we don't do that kind of thing here. It has never been necessary because immigrants of difference did whatever they possibly could to have their children assimilate into the larger culture, and adhere to the values and ideals of that culture, whatever their faith, or origination creeds. This has changed, however, with the advent of multiculturalism, the balkanization of tribes. These are its wages.

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 11:33 AM
No, again, consider his comments about the uniform. It presents an assimilationist message, despite the obvious indication that he is a Muslim. When off duty, however, things are different, for his cultural and religious difference are emphasized, but are uncoupled from an assimilationist message.

I get it, One is not an American, if one doesn't LOOK like an American. You've just reinforced the point of the video... prejudice can be 'excused', when people 'look' different.


Asking ordinary people to suffer a massive terror event but respond perfectly to any innocent Muslim they see, like "hey, it's all good," is an awful lot to ask of people.

No, it's not. If it were, then perhaps the non-Christians of the 1950's should have indicted all of Christianity for the burning crosses all over the south.


I grow weary of this kind of multicultural shaming, which continues to be the exclusive province of the multiculturalist Left. Why have we never seen a panel of Muslims from all walks of life, made to sit, and hear, and respond to, the stories, pain and loss experienced by the families of 9-11 victims, or other Muslim terrorist killings?

I'm even wearier of all the attempts to portray all Muslims in the same light. It's absolutely no different than the nativist prejudice against immigrants in the early 20th century, when nativist/isolationist newspapers were full of seething hatred for anyone who didn't look like a WASP. It's the same as the portrayal of Jews in cartoon fashion (hooked noses and all) in Europe in the 1930's.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 11:41 AM
one is American if one only looks American

Sorry, Norman, but it's a little more complicated than that. The piece opens discussing the treatment difference as respects the uniform, with no further examination of why that occurs. They should have stuck with that element of it, but that doesn't serve the shaming narrative preferred by the multiculturalist Left.

Again, his status as a Muslim is instantly recognizable while in uniform, as he acknowledges, and he is treated just as American as anyone else, though he "looks different."

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 11:45 AM
We ARE a multicultural nation. You may not like that, but it's a fact.

The question is whether we will be a multicultural society which is divided into cultural classes, in which one culture oppresses and discriminates against others, or not.

You want to make excuses for discrimination? Go right ahead. We all know what that means.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 11:52 AM
Norman, I'm curious. Do you do anything tangible about this kind of thing, apart from posting stuff on the internet and hectoring people? Have you done anything, or a series of things, apart from broadcasting your virtue and right-mindedness to a Left-wing audience?

Peerie Maa
01-26-2017, 11:52 AM
Sorry, Norman, but it's a little more complicated than that.
Yes, hypocrisy is complicated. However what we are discussing is a mixture of bigotry and ignorance with a big helping of cowardice mixed in.
Both hypocritical and cowardly when they will harass "Not us" whilst being frightened to do so when a uniform is involved.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 11:54 AM
Yes, hypocrisy is complicated. However what we are discussing is a mixture of bigotry and ignorance with a big helping of cowardice mixed in.
Both hypocritical and cowardly when they will harass "Not us" whilst being frightened to do so when a uniform is involved.

Nick, I'm curious. Do you do anything tangible about this kind of thing, apart from posting stuff on the internet and hectoring people? Have you done anything, or a series of things, apart from broadcasting your virtue and right-mindedness to a Left-wing audience?

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 11:55 AM
Norman, I'm curious. Do you do anything tangible about this kind of thing, apart from posting stuff on the internet and hectoring people? Have you done anything, or a series of things, apart from broadcasting your virtue and right-mindedness to a Left-wing audience?

I'd ask the same of you, but this isn't a thread about personal virtue. We already know that you disparage personal virtue... or, at the very least, don't believe it exists.

I'm not interested in your personal virtue.... I don't have to ask about it, I believe your posts demonstrate it.. or the lack, thereof.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 12:02 PM
Norman, not all cultures are the same. Some have more baggage than others, some do not fit as easily as others on the grand carousel of American life. To expect, or demand, that the dominant culture would treat all cultures the precisely the same, no matter the relevant baggage, is na´ve. That has never been the case in the US, nor anywhere else that I am aware of. The government's treatment of this young man is wrong. With that said, sometimes life isn't fair. Buck up.

David G
01-26-2017, 12:06 PM
Deplorable. He's just deplorable.

Peerie Maa
01-26-2017, 12:07 PM
Nick, I'm curious. Do you do anything tangible about this kind of thing, apart from posting stuff on the internet and hectoring people? Have you done anything, or a series of things, apart from broadcasting your virtue and right-mindedness to a Left-wing audience?

There is a strange echo on here.
I'm reminded of the saying about empty vessels.

Meanwhile you are asking a citizen of a nation who has tackled these issues head on by dealing with institutional racism wherever it is identified.

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 12:08 PM
Norman, not all cultures are the same. Some have more baggage than others, some do not fit as easily as others on the grand carousel of American life. To expect, or demand, that the dominant culture would treat all cultures the precisely the same, no matter the relevant baggage, is na´ve.

'Dominant culture'?

Just what IS the 'dominant culture'? Please define it specifically.

I'd suggest you be very careful about this... because demographics will relatively soon change exactly who the 'dominant culture' is.

John of Phoenix
01-26-2017, 12:15 PM
On the other hand,when members of your faith murder thousands of your fellow citizens in the name of their God, including many police and firemen, it would be naive to expect that there would not be blowback, no matter how unfair.Let's hear an AMEN for the gun worshipers.

TomF
01-26-2017, 12:15 PM
This is another example of that "white privilege" stuff you were getting all lyrical and judgmental about the other day, SB.

Let's pretend for a moment that the Muslim chaplain was white. Islam is a religion, after all, not a race.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 12:18 PM
Norman, when you share what you've personally done, that is, substantive actions actually taken in redress of some of the issues outlined in the video (apart from hectoring people on the internet and broadcasting virtue to a Left-wing audience), then I'll be pleased to give you a definition as you've requested.

Deal?

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 12:21 PM
This is another example of that "white privilege" stuff you were getting all lyrical and judgmental about the other day, SB.


You can still disagree with me, TomF, but I'm glad you've thought about it. That alone is worth the effort I put into that thread.

TomF
01-26-2017, 12:29 PM
I thought about it long before you posted, frankly. I have problems with the concept as often described (which is simplistic), but it's kinda obvious that people of colour face structural racist barriers.

What astonishes me is the flip from passionate advocate for people of colour in one thread, to passionate defender of "white privilege" in another. Without pulling ligaments, throwing out your back, or anything - migod! I don't find moral flexibility exactly commendable, but it's impressive how far a person can take such things with perseverance.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 12:32 PM
I thought about it long before you posted, frankly. I have problems with the concept as often described (which is simplistic), but it's kinda obvious that people of colour face structural racist barriers.

What astonishes me is the flip from passionate advocate for people of colour in one thread, to passionate defender of "white privilege" in another. Without pulling ligaments, throwing out your back, or anything - migod! I don't find moral flexibility exactly commendable, but it's impressive how far a person can take such things with perseverance.

I'm not defending white privilege here, nor have I claimed that Norman's posting of the video reinforces it. I don't make those arguments today.

I don't even believe race is particularly implicated here. Cultural assimilation is implicated here. The wages of multiculturalism.

TomF
01-26-2017, 12:35 PM
What, there aren't any Caucasian Muslims? Please. How is the guy supposed to signal assimilation, except by changing his skin colour?

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 12:41 PM
What, there aren't any Caucasian Muslims? Please. How is the guy supposed to signal assimilation, except by changing his skin colour?

Our government would most likely classify that fine young Chaplain as white, TomF, and certainly would if he instructed them to do so. This isn't a discussion about race.

John of Phoenix
01-26-2017, 12:48 PM
^ Get used to the post truth era. There's lots more where that came from.

David G
01-26-2017, 12:50 PM
Deplorable. Just deplorable.

Peerie Maa
01-26-2017, 12:53 PM
Our government would most likely classify that fine young Chaplain as white, TomF, and certainly would if he instructed them to do so. This isn't a discussion about race.

Remarkable, truly remarkable.

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 12:58 PM
Norman, when you share what you've personally done, that is, substantive actions actually taken in redress of some of the issues outlined in the video (apart from hectoring people on the internet and broadcasting virtue to a Left-wing audience), then I'll be pleased to give you a definition as you've requested.

Deal?


In your dreams.

You can either defend what you've said, or not. If you don't, then we can all come to our own conclusions as to what you meant by talking about the 'dominant culture'.

I've come to my conclusion. I believe I know what you're referring to.. and I'm sure that others here understand just as well, what you're talking about.

And it really turns my stomach.

TomF
01-26-2017, 01:06 PM
It's a discussion about the impact of having the facial features and skin tone of "the enemy," and the factors a person can influence to signal that despite those things, you're "safe."

Increasingly, the discussion here on this thread is about why it is acceptable to don a transparently false perspective on such obvious things, and how to best react to create discussions grounded in actual facts.

Just like I'm not even going to debate with bobbys about whether Trump is a serial liar, I'm gonna really try not to debate that the response the Chaplain got when out of uniform was triggered by looking like he had Arab or other middle eastern ethnicity. Aside from surgery and makeup, it's not clear how he could "assimilate" enough without always walking around in uniform.

Assimilation would look more like being treated the same as you or me, while wearing our clothes.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 01:07 PM
Stop virtue signaling, Norman. It's tiresome.

Tums, I've found, are helpful to an upset stomach, btw.

John of Phoenix
01-26-2017, 01:09 PM
You don't know ANYTHING about tiresome.

:D LMAO :D

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 01:11 PM
It's a discussion about the impact of having the facial features and skin tone of "the enemy," and the factors a person can influence to signal that despite those things, you're "safe."

Increasingly, the discussion here on this thread is about why it is acceptable to don a transparently false perspective on such obvious things, and how to best react to create discussions grounded in actual facts.

Just like I'm not even going to debate with bobbys about whether Trump is a serial liar, I'm gonna really try not to debate that the response the Chaplain got when out of uniform was triggered by looking like he had Arab or other middle eastern ethnicity. Aside from surgery and makeup, it's not clear how he could "assimilate" enough without always walking around in uniform.

Assimilation would look more like being treated the same as you or me, while wearing our clothes.

Oh, nonsense. The Chaplain looks no different than many persons living in NYC whose families have lived there for generations and aren't in any manner considered "other."

The problem with you men is you can't have a conversation with persons of a dissenting viewpoint.

You just can't. That's probably why you hang out here; your viewpoints are mostly reinforced. It's a safe space. It's sad.

TomF
01-26-2017, 01:17 PM
That's not the sad thing, however much "we men" like to chat.

BTW, was I supposed to notice the gendered disparagement, and start puzzling again about your gender identity, so you could take a whack about it later? :D. I know you enjoy that sense of mystery. ;

George Jung
01-26-2017, 01:19 PM
Deplorable, yes. And 'enabled' by continued interaction and debate.

Tossing the bad apple generally has beneficial effects for the rest of the barrel.

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 01:20 PM
The problem with you men is you can't have a conversation with persons of a dissenting viewpoint.

Quite the contrary... we all love discussing with dissenters. The problem is YOURS: you can't deal with dissent. We're dealing with it fine, by speaking our mind... you're dealing with it by accusing others of intolerance.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 01:44 PM
Norman's shtick is so funny sometimes. He does his little troll posts and then becomes incensed when people rise to it. What more could a group of Left-wingers say other than this kind of thing is terrible? That's why Norman had to bump his own thread. There's nowhere to go with it. It's bad, end of story.

So a dissenter comes along to give it a little action, and the decent into insults, accusations of bigotry and racism, the whole bit, is almost immediate.

You men need to up your games here, big time. Especially you, Norman. You need to do better, represent yourself better.

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 01:47 PM
I talk about issues. You talk about people.

Your crack about other people needing to 'up their games' is essentially the kind of narcissism that Trump displays. None of us need YOUR opinion of our 'game' abilities.... but evidently, YOU seem to need some kind of approval of yours.

This is not a game, and there are no winners.... SamF, similarly, never got that... and you clearly won't, either.

Sorry, you'll have to look elsewhere for adulation, appreciation, and love.

George Jung
01-26-2017, 01:48 PM
Spoken like the putz we've all come to recognize. Self-aggrandizement is so.... petty!

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 02:04 PM
The young Chaplain is a good man, leading a righteous life and fighting for a better America for us all. Part of his challenge, and our challenge, involves the dueling ideologies of assimilationism and multiculturalism.

The former has stood the test of time in lending to the national creed of e pluribus unum, while the latter, a more recent ethos, rejects that creed for something different. I believe that multiculturalism will lead to more difficulties for persons like the young chaplain, more balkanization, not less, and a hectoring, shaming challenge to the difficulties presented, will as well.

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 02:08 PM
The young Chaplain is a good man, leading a righteous life and fighting for a better America for us all. Part of his challenge, and our challenge, involves the dueling ideologies of assimilationism and multiculturalism.

The former has stood the test of time in lending to the national creed of e pluribus unum, while the latter, a more recent ethos, rejects that creed for something different. I believe that multiculturalism will lead to more difficulties for persons like the young chaplain, more balkanization, not less, and a hectoring, shaming challenge to the difficulties presented, will as well.


Yes... the triumph of the 'dominant culture' :):):)

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 02:11 PM
Yes... the triumph of the 'dominant culture' :):):)

Well, consider the story of your own ancestors, Norman. Aren't you "as American" as anyone else? Aren't you part and parcel to the "dominant culture," as it were? Don't you participate in it fully, don't your children do so?

How did that happen? Why did it happen? Have you even thought about this, apart from your virtue signaling and shaming?

When was the last time you posted anything remotely patriotic to this Forum? When is the last time you expressed any gratitude at all for the rights and freedoms guaranteed to you by the values inherent in this culture?

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 02:15 PM
Yes, tell us all about it, Mr. 'Dominant Culture'. Go ahead, from your smug perch, with a condescending attitude, tell us all about how YOU are a patriot, but the rest of us fall short of YOUR expectations. Sneer as much as you possibly can. We'll all feel shamed as you set us straight as to what the 'Dominant Culture' has to say about what it means to be a patriot.

I'm sure we're ALL going to be listening, and hanging on your EVERY word, as you provide your fatherly wisdom and discipline.

:):)

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 02:22 PM
Yes, tell us all about it, Mr. 'Dominant Culture'. Go ahead, from your smug perch, with a condescending attitude, tell us all about how YOU are a patriot, but the rest of us fall short of YOUR expectations. Sneer as much as you possibly can. We'll all feel shamed as you set us straight as to what the 'Dominant Culture' has to say about what it means to be a patriot.

I'm sure we're ALL going to be listening, and hanging on your EVERY word, as you provide your fatherly wisdom and discipline.

:):)

Like I said, "can't have a conversation."

Be that as it may, I love you, Norman. And I know you love me too. Have a nice day. :)

Norman Bernstein
01-26-2017, 02:25 PM
Like I said, "can't have a conversation."

Be that as it may, I love you, Norman. And I know you love me too. Have a nice day. :)

Sorry I am forced to tell you this, but I DON'T love you. I think you carry some of the most reprehensible attitudes I've ever heard anyone express here in the bilge. Your diatribe about 'dominant culture' is only the latest in a string of really reprehensible perspectives you have expressed here... and your smug condescension is insufferable.

Bobcat
01-26-2017, 02:31 PM
Would you all stop quoting Sky Blue?

Thank you

John of Phoenix
01-26-2017, 02:47 PM
What the **** is it going to take for you guys to realize that this guy is playing you all for suckers?

WHAT?

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 03:08 PM
What the **** is it going to take for you guys to realize that this guy is playing you all for suckers?

WHAT?

Well, certainly your remarks in this respect, given ad nauseam, aren't getting the job done.

:dLMAO:d

Duncan Gibbs
01-26-2017, 03:38 PM
I suppose Bluey's going to tell us all because the dominant culture of the Excited States of Amnesia is patriarchy that women in short skirts are asking to be raped as well.

Sorry Bluey. But either you're trolling, or you're... Whatever.

Reynard38
01-26-2017, 03:47 PM
I've got 3 good friends that are Muslim. 2 of them remind me a lot of this Chaplain.
2 of them voted for Trump.

Life is funny.

Gerarddm
01-26-2017, 04:28 PM
^ Gawd, puh-lease.


SB doesn't virtue signal. He iniquity signals. Which is why I have had him cozily tucked away in Ignore for some time now.

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 04:41 PM
I have had him cozily tucked away in Ignore for some time now.

I don't think so. :)

Gill
01-26-2017, 07:10 PM
It is outrageous, this kind of institutionalized bigotry and official misconduct.

On the other hand, when members of your faith murder thousands of your fellow citizens in the name of their God, including many police and firemen, it would be naive to expect that there would not be blowback, no matter how unfair. When terrorism has become instantly identifiable with your faith in the modern age, some people will not respond favorably to you. When some members of your faith have very different cultural ideas about the role of women , for example, people will want to see a commitment to assimilationism.

This is why things go well when the uniform is on. It presents an assimilationist message.

By contrast, and despite there being nothing in Islam that requires special dress emphasizing's one's cultural or religious difference, to do so will always draw some unpleasantness from some people.

These are the wages of multiculturalism.

pwnage.

Duncan Gibbs
01-26-2017, 07:27 PM
GRBage.
Fixed that for you! :)

willmarsh3
01-26-2017, 09:51 PM
No. They are the wages of intolerance and bigotry.

+1000

Sky Blue
01-26-2017, 09:54 PM
pwnage.

I was hoping you'd show, Gill. We need to see more of you around here. :)

David G
01-26-2017, 10:06 PM
Deplorable. Just deplorable.

LeeG
01-26-2017, 10:21 PM
Oh boy another SB thread. Well done guys.