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David G
12-19-2016, 05:58 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-electoral-college-meets-formally-elect-trump-142816198--politics.html

Buckle up biches.

oznabrag
12-19-2016, 06:00 PM
The ratfreakers have their Moron King.

Congratulations, comrades, you have destroyed all that is decent about the USA.

David G
12-19-2016, 06:04 PM
Gonna be a bumpy and unpredictable ride --

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/harvard-professors-us-president-barack-obama-grave-concern-donald-trump-mental-stability-a7482586.html?cmpid=facebook-post

TomF
12-19-2016, 06:05 PM
Good luck to us all.

Keith Wilson
12-19-2016, 06:06 PM
http://cf.morrissey-solo.com/forums/images/smilies/barf.gif

paulf
12-19-2016, 06:06 PM
Can't wait for his involvement in the Russian/ Turk war....Hello,... Mr Trump... this is NATO command!

Arizona Bay
12-19-2016, 06:12 PM
Not so fast... a lot of things can happen before the oaf takes the oath.

Here's to hoping that they do ;)

BrianW
12-19-2016, 06:13 PM
Glad that's over.

I thought the vote for Faith Spotted Eagle was a nice touch. :)

Reynard38
12-19-2016, 06:15 PM
Gonna be a wild ride. I for one hope it goes well as I care more for the people of the country than partisanship.
If however it goes the other way the Dems need to get their collective $hit together to mount an effective offense. First step, everybody who worked on Hilary's campaign, including Hilary, needs to be sent to a remote Island somewhere in the south Atlantic. :)

Bob Adams
12-19-2016, 06:28 PM
Gonna be a wild ride. I for one hope it goes well as I care more for the people of the country than partisanship.
If however it goes the other way the Dems need to get their collective $hit together to mount an effective offense. First step, everybody who worked on Hilary's campaign, including Hilary, needs to be sent to a remote Island somewhere in the south Atlantic. :)

Quite right Skipper. He's commander of our ship now like it or not....if he sinks it we go with him.

paulf
12-19-2016, 06:34 PM
Quite right Skipper. He's commander of our ship now like it or not....if he sinks it we go with him.

And shyte is building big time. Big storm coming, hope there is someone there to take the helm.

Sky Blue
12-19-2016, 06:41 PM
Hillary suffered more faithless electors than Trump did.

Elite media strikes again with a whole week of fake news and BS hype about how electors might thwart Trump.

Elite media in this country is truly disgusting, a stain on our Republic and a danger to the citizens' interest.

Ian McColgin
12-19-2016, 06:47 PM
"Elite media strikes again with a whole week of fake news and BS hype about how electors might thwart Trump." [#12]

Spin on. The "elite media" I read - Cape Cod Times, Boston Globe, New York Times - did report stories of people who were attempting to thwart Trump AND reported the sober analyses that pointed out that it was not going to work. All of which has been well understood since the day after the election. We have never inaugurated a president who lost the actual vote by anything like Trump's loss and we've inaugurated only a handful who squeaked in with as thin an electoral college margin.

Too Little Time
12-19-2016, 07:00 PM
we've inaugurated only a handful who squeaked in with as thin an electoral college margin.
You know what they call a person who gets 271 electoral votes? Mr. (Ms.) President.

bob winter
12-19-2016, 07:01 PM
****

TomF
12-19-2016, 07:02 PM
Hillary suffered more faithless electors than Trump did.

Elite media strikes again with a whole week of fake news and BS hype about how electors might thwart Trump.

Elite media in this country is truly disgusting, a stain on our Republic and a danger to the citizens' interest.
Show me one story which claimed that unseating Trump was anything other than a very long shot. I've been reading the "elites such as the NY Times, BBC, CNN, CBC etc., and have yet to see anything claiming that Trump would actually get turfed. Or anything close.

Rich Jones
12-19-2016, 07:46 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, please fasten your seatbelts, we're heading into severe turbulence.

Crank up the band. What was that tune they were playing as the Titanic went down?

Ian McColgin
12-19-2016, 07:54 PM
Ah, Too Little Time. I'd not realized that you were confused as to my meaning when in post #13 I wrote " . . . inaugurated a president . . . "

john l
12-19-2016, 08:18 PM
whinning winners! be glad, get to work, remember that more people think differently than you. try to work with them.

Durnik
12-19-2016, 09:01 PM
Quite right Skipper. He's commander of our ship now like it or not....

t' heck with that. #hesnotmyprecedent

I intend to give him the same respect as the rww's gave President Barack Obama.

Gerarddm
12-19-2016, 09:04 PM
I offered to believe in a diety and go to church if Drumpf got turned aside, sacrifice as that would have been for me.

Ah well. There is none.

"Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy ride".

beernd
12-20-2016, 04:19 AM
Gonna be a wild ride. I for one hope it goes well as I care more for the people of the country than partisanship.
If however it goes the other way the Dems need to get their collective $hit together to mount an effective offense. First step, everybody who worked on Hilary's campaign, including Hilary, needs to be sent to a remote Island somewhere in the south Atlantic. :)

I was thinking about the south pole. ;)

PeterSibley
12-20-2016, 04:25 AM
Hillary suffered more faithless electors than Trump did.

Elite media strikes again with a whole week of fake news and BS hype about how electors might thwart Trump.

Elite media in this country is truly disgusting, a stain on our Republic and a danger to the citizens' interest.

Hillary's voters live in the wrong states , the unequal states.

ishmael
12-20-2016, 08:15 AM
Some things I've been thinking about lately. In ceremonial magic and any deep religious practice, prayerm shamanism, et al, what you put out into the world you get back, in spades. Do you really want to spend the rest of today, and the days that follow, griping about Donald Trump? What, pray tell, is that going to bring back to you?

I'm not suggesting doing nothing, but Karma can be wicked nasty, and is a part, all around, of why we find ourselves at this particular juncture - by which I mean the candidates we found ourselves with and the president we now have.

In the same breath, by all means hold the buffoon accountable. Now that he's officially elected, however, the time is coming, soon, to move on from simply sniping and bitching.

The I Ching, that fount of ancient Chinese wisdom I'm fond of, admonishes us that there are good ways and bad to confront what is wrong. Sometimes directly, a frontal assault if you will, sometimes retreat, and often some subtle combination.
It also states, repeatedly, that the best way to surmount obstacles is making "energetic progress toward the good".

Sorry if I sound preachy this morning, but I and others, including a valued member of the "pub" who has exited, are weary after this extended wrestle that was the last election cycle.

So...have at it, I don't have to read it, but I seem to get drawn in against my better judgement.

Rum_Pirate
12-20-2016, 08:20 AM
Not so fast... a lot of things can happen before the oaf takes the oath.

Here's to hoping that they do ;)


What can now happen before the President Elect takes office to prevent him taking office, other than his death?

Rum_Pirate
12-20-2016, 08:24 AM
Some things I've been thinking about lately. In ceremonial magic and any deep religious practice, prayerm shamanism, et al, what you put out into the world you get back, in spades. Do you really want to spend the rest of today, and the days that follow, griping about Donald Trump? What, pray tell, is that going to bring back to you?

I'm not suggesting doing nothing, but Karma can be wicked nasty, and is a part, all around, of why we find ourselves at this particular juncture - by which I mean the candidates we found ourselves with and the president we now have.

In the same breath, by all means hold the buffoon accountable. Now that he's officially elected, however, the time is coming, soon, to move on from simply sniping and bitching.

The I Ching, that fount of ancient Chinese wisdom I'm fond of, admonishes us that there are good ways and bad to confront what is wrong. Sometimes directly, a frontal assault if you will, sometimes retreat, and often some subtle combination.
It also states, repeatedly, that the best way to surmount obstacles is making "energetic progress toward the good".

Sorry if I sound preachy this morning, but I and others, including a valued member of the "pub" who has exited, are weary after this extended wrestle that was the last election cycle.

So...have at it, I don't have to read it, but I seem to get drawn in against my better judgement.
Good post Ishmael. Y> Y> Y>

TomF
12-20-2016, 08:56 AM
What can now happen before the President Elect takes office to prevent him taking office, other than his death?indictment?

C. Ross
12-20-2016, 08:58 AM
Elite media strikes again with a whole week of fake news and BS hype about how electors might thwart Trump.

Elite media in this country is truly disgusting, a stain on our Republic and a danger to the citizens' interest.

Ian responded actually and correctly, I think. Do you have any examples of where the "elite media" reported that the electors might actually thwart Trump? I saw it in fake news places like Facebook, but never from a professional media operation. Did you? Where?

But if the "elite media" has failed us, which media should we believe in? Which sources, specifically, offer coverage of daily events in a way that you find satisfactory?

Osborne Russell
12-20-2016, 09:17 AM
Do you really want to spend the rest of today, and the days that follow, griping about Donald Trump?

The situation is considerably further developed than that. This is not uncharted territory. This is what made the helicopter guy at My Lai a hero.

The duty to refuse to obey an illegal order involves no philosophical or spiritual mystery. It's a duty. And it goes beyond the refusal to obey. It extends to the affirmative duty to see that illegal orders are not carried out by others. What they are doing is a crime, dig? If you stand and contemplate you are complicit.

Trump has said that he will resort to murder and torture "and much more", his words. If he does, you're going to wish that griping was all you had to do.

Rum_Pirate
12-20-2016, 09:55 AM
indictment?
On what grounds?

Sky Blue
12-20-2016, 10:43 AM
Ian responded actually and correctly, I think. Do you have any examples of where the "elite media" reported that the electors might actually thwart Trump? I saw it in fake news places like Facebook, but never from a professional media operation. Did you? Where?

But if the "elite media" has failed us, which media should we believe in? Which sources, specifically, offer coverage of daily events in a way that you find satisfactory?

I've never seen a group of people so utterly blinded by their own bias. Ask yourselves:

Have you ever, in your own history of following presidential election politics, seen such a raft of stories about faithless electors, how the college vote actually works, and the actual collection vote itself, as you've seen in the last week? Have you ever heard of electors demanding and intelligence briefing? Did you know the possible penalties for a faithless vote? Have you ever in the past even had call to consider such a thing?

No?

Keith Wilson
12-20-2016, 10:48 AM
Have you ever, in your own history of following presidential election politics, seen such a raft . . . . In the entire history of the US, the only candidate who won the popular vote by a greater percentage than Ms. Clinton yet did not become president was Samuel Tilden in 1876. You may remember that the 1876 election caused quite a lot of fuss, and some very, very bad results for African-Americans in the south.

SB, do you EVER answer a question?

TomF
12-20-2016, 10:53 AM
On what grounds?No idea, but it's the only thing that comes to mind which could prevent any President Elect from assuming office at this stage of things, aside from that person's own demise.

I fully expect Trump to be inaugurated on schedule.

Sky Blue
12-20-2016, 10:56 AM
In the entire history of the US, the only candidate who won the popular vote by a greater percentage than Ms. Clinton yet did not become president was Samuel Tilden in 1876. You may remember that the 1876 election caused quite a lot of fuss, and some very, very bad results for African-Americans in the south.

SB, do you EVER answer a question?

1876? I'm talking about an elite media hustle and you're bringing up 1976? What does any of that have to do with endless fake news stories over the last week about the possibility of a revolt?

Ask yourself: why is it in fact "news" that Mrs. Clinton ended up with more faithless electors than Trump did?

Think about it.

Breakaway
12-20-2016, 10:59 AM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Rich Jones http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=5100343#post5100343)

What was that tune they were playing as the Titanic went down?



Nearer MY God To Thee

Kevin

Keith Wilson
12-20-2016, 11:06 AM
I bring up 1876 because Ms. Clinton won the popular vote very convincingly, currently 48.2%-46.1%, and by over 2.8 million votes. The only candidate who ever won a greater percentage of the popular vote yet didn't become president was Samuel Tilden in 1876, and that election was surrounded by more turmoil than any in our history. That's why all the discussion about the electors.

You are sounding more and more like a fascist all the time, with your fulminations about the 'elite media'. It doesn't look good on you.

TomF
12-20-2016, 11:10 AM
1876? I'm talking about an elite media hustle and you're bringing up 1976? What does any of that have to do with endless fake news stories over the last week about the possibility of a revolt?

Ask yourself: why is it in fact "news" that Mrs. Clinton ended up with more faithless electors than Trump did?

Think about it.Clinton's done, so the vote wasn't whipped - after all, not a soul believed for a moment that Trump's confirmation wouldn't occur. Do you imagine that some of the Dem electors felt there was something to gain in the party's rebuilding phases by "virtue signaling" to the Bernie-friendly base? ;)

And we were advised in advance that the Republican elector vote would be whipped (as one would expect from either winning party). And Trump himself made ominous public comments about the political futures of Republican electors who proved faithless (as one would not expect from any decent party).

oznabrag
12-20-2016, 11:13 AM
Think about it.

Isn't it the mark of a good leader that he doesn't ask others to do things he would not do, himself?

Sky Blue
12-20-2016, 11:26 AM
That's why all the discussion about the electors.

Silliness and drivel, Keith.

C. Ross
12-20-2016, 11:31 AM
Have you ever, in your own history of following presidential election politics, seen such a raft of stories about faithless electors, how the college vote actually works, and the actual collection vote itself, as you've seen in the last week? Have you ever heard of electors demanding and intelligence briefing? Did you know the possible penalties for a faithless vote? Have you ever in the past even had call to consider such a thing?

No?

Well, sir, you didn't provide any proof for your argument:


Elite media strikes again with a whole week of fake news and BS hype about how electors might thwart Trump.

To the contrary, I think every article I saw and story I heard took pains to report on why the faithless elector appeal was groundless. And yet the Never Trump movement remains a fact. Would you suggest that the media NOT report on the petitions, the civil disobedience, the protests? What kind of elite censorship is that?

I believe that a plurality of the country is outraged because Trump is outrageous. Mr. Trump has forty years of outrageousness behind him, via books, radio and talk show appearances, reality TV shows. His brand is "in your face". His campaign used outrageousness, shock value, non-PC talk to elevate him.

So now he wants everyone to treat him with polite deference, respect, and dignity? While he continues his pre-dawn Twitter attack stream, often aimed at individual American citizens and companies? Mr. Trump continues to confirm his delicate ego and willingness to attack with venom. A particularly obnoxious, and yes newsworthy, personality.

Mr. Trump lived by the sword. He will surely die by the sword. I suspect he'll wield it himself.

Keith Wilson
12-20-2016, 11:32 AM
Silliness and drivel, Keith.Oh, my, I am soooo embarrassed., "Silliness and drivel!" What clear, incisive, well-documented, and cogent reasoning; my arguments are left in smoking ruin. I slink away with my tail between my legs. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif :D

Sky Blue
12-20-2016, 11:41 AM
Oh, my, I am soooo embarrassed., "Silliness and drivel!" What clear and cogent reasoning; my arguments are left in shreds. I slink away with my tail between my legs. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I suggest what you should be concerned with is your newly-discovered penchant for insults, Keith. I suggest it doesn't look good on you, and, quite frankly, you're among the last here that I would have thought would trend into that kind of thing. It's disappointing, and removes you from the ever-shortening list of reasonable, respectable commentators here. I suggest having a look at how Cris does his thing. He gets where he's going without having to resort to that kind of stuff.

oznabrag
12-20-2016, 11:43 AM
I suggest what you should be concerned with is your newly-discovered penchant for insults, Keith. I suggest it doesn't look good on you, and, quite frankly, you're among the last here that I would have thought would trend into that kind of thing. It's disappointing, and removes you from the ever-shortening list of reasonable, respectable commentators here. I suggest having a look at how Cris does his thing. He gets where he's going without having to resort to that kind of stuff.

Says the man who doles out "Silliness and drivel", like it was a compliment.

David G
12-20-2016, 11:46 AM
Oh, my, I am soooo embarrassed., "Silliness and drivel!" What clear, incisive, well-documented, and cogent reasoning; my arguments are left in smoking ruin. I slink away with my tail between my legs. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif :D

Well... at least it was up to his usual standard. You gotta give him credit for that, eh?

Keith Wilson
12-20-2016, 11:47 AM
I suggest what you should be concerned with is your newly-discovered penchant for insults, Keith. "Silliness and drivel"? Indeed? However, I stand by my description of your 'elite media' rants as 'sounding like a fascist'. They do. Angry right-wing ethno-nationalist populism has a long and nasty history.

TomF
12-20-2016, 12:03 PM
I try not to drivel while slinking; the stuff gets all over my tail. Wasn't as much of a problem when I was a young man.

Sky Blue
12-20-2016, 12:05 PM
I stand by my description...

You shouldn't. It makes you look petty and ill-informed. Quite frankly, Keith, you've been wrong about a whole lot of stuff lately, much of which you've snarkily backed with cartoon unicorns and the like. It hasn't been a terribly impressive show. Some humility is in order, not insults.

TomF
12-20-2016, 12:06 PM
#48. :d

oznabrag
12-20-2016, 12:08 PM
You shouldn't. It makes you look petty and ill-informed. Quite frankly, Keith, you've been wrong about a whole lot of stuff lately, much of which you've snarkily backed with cartoon unicorns and the like. It hasn't been a terribly impressive show. Some humility is in order, not insults.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2Jyw6kO8x_c/S36Cy5CwIvI/AAAAAAAAA-k/uTrjBIKcJgQ/s320/IronyMeterSplode.jpg

David G
12-20-2016, 12:09 PM
You shouldn't. It makes you look petty and ill-informed. Quite frankly, Keith, you've been wrong about a whole lot of stuff lately, much of which you've snarkily backed with cartoon unicorns and the like. It hasn't been a terribly impressive show. Some humility is in order, not insults.

Remarkable...

Keith Wilson
12-20-2016, 12:10 PM
Oh, I hang my head in shame. And slinkily drivel all over my pink unicorns. If Mr. Blue's horse got any higher, he'd need oxygen.

:d

Glen Longino
12-20-2016, 12:48 PM
:D:D

ccmanuals
12-20-2016, 01:36 PM
Remarkable...

and amazing.

Sky Blue
12-20-2016, 01:50 PM
Oh, he's certainly not alone in this. Much of the "group" will share the long climb back to credibility. That's just the way it is. Insults and name-calling in the wake of being so obnoxiously wrong about so much won't get it done.

Indeed, some just yesterday were going on about "how Trump won" by citing much of the same argument used for so long to argue why he would lose

It's rediculous.

TomF
12-20-2016, 01:57 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2Jyw6kO8x_c/S36Cy5CwIvI/AAAAAAAAA-k/uTrjBIKcJgQ/s320/IronyMeterSplode.jpgYou're gonna have to take a look at that. More and more, I recommend that people upgrade those stock irony meters. They just don't stand up to the service demands these days. Sure it costs a lot up front, and you have to beef up related components like the wryness-recognition loop, but in the end the upgrade saves a lot of trouble.

Now, some will tell you to go the other route and disable the irony recognition circuitry altogether, but that dampens so many humour functions that I figure the cure's worse than the problem. Worse, keep it switched off too long and you'll overheat the political judgment coil and get some serious voting instability. In the really bad cases, I've heard that people's hair can turn orange from the fumes.

But it's up to you. You can pay me now, or pay me later.

David G
12-20-2016, 02:11 PM
But if one starts down that path - one soon realizes that a flock of upgrades are actually required. Beefing up the idiocy indicators. Installing smarminess verniers. Dingleberry shielding circuits. The whole suite of changes. Otherwise, one wastes way too much time on these sorts.

C. Ross
12-20-2016, 02:12 PM
It's rediculous.

Unintentional irony?

Mr. Trump is indeed rediculous.

TomF
12-20-2016, 02:32 PM
But if one starts down that path - one soon realizes that a flock of upgrades are actually required. Beefing up the idiocy indicators. Installing smarminess verniers. Dingleberry shielding circuits. The whole suite of changes. Otherwise, one wastes way too much time on these sorts.My grandmother used to say that if you can only afford a used car, you can't afford a used car. :D

Waddie
12-20-2016, 02:33 PM
It hasn't been a good month for Democrats. The election went against them in the electoral college, where it counts, and the Jill the Shill for Hil recount ended up giving Trump even more votes. That must have been a shocker... a nine million dollar shocker.....
Even the determined effort on the part of liberals to coerce electors by any means possible to switch their votes to Hillary backfired. More Clinton electors switched than did Trump electors.
All the liberals are left with is their dogged attempt to link Trump to the Russians, no matter how tenuous most of that effort ends up being. the problem with that is first you have to convince the American public that the Russians are indeed Satan's army, and that Russia matters.
Most Americans just want Trump, or whomever our president is, to succeed; because then we all succeed.
As soon as Trump announces his first big project, be it health care reform, infrastructure, re-building inner cities, or whatever, the Russian gambit will be quickly discarded. That's how the news business works; already they've dropped the re-count "investigation", and the email leaks. The news business is very fickle.

regards,
Waddie

Osborne Russell
12-20-2016, 03:20 PM
Most Americans just want Trump, or whomever our president is, to succeed; because then we all succeed.

Not so fast. Depends what he sets out to do. Much of what he says he will do, I wish him to fail at.

This is different from Republicans under Obama, who said they would seek the failure of anything he tried to do. This is the first time in eight years I'm hearing "because then we all succeed."

David G
12-20-2016, 03:28 PM
Not so fast. Depends what he sets out to do. Much of what he says he will do, I wish him to fail at.

This is different from Republicans under Obama, who said they would seek the failure of anything he tried to do. This is the first time in eight years I'm hearing "because then we all succeed."

Yes... there's a word for that sort of inconsistency. I forget at the moment what it is.

And there's a word for this sort of bland misrepresentation of the facts. It's just not coming to me at the moment.

TomF
12-20-2016, 03:31 PM
Yes... there's a word for that sort of inconsistency. I forget at the moment what it is.

And there's a word for this sort of bland misrepresentation of the facts. It's just not coming to me at the moment."Give me an 'H'"

"Give me a 'Y'"
....

David G
12-20-2016, 08:34 PM
"Give me an 'H'"

"Give me a 'Y'"
....

Just so. Not enough haiku, I guess <G>

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-20-2016, 09:18 PM
I stopped following the Trump transition. Too depressing to think this many voters could be this ignorant.

David G
12-20-2016, 10:06 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x296/15541707_10209633173519730_6462664442868518824_n.j pg?oh=92199e984d7ce747995ff7691b76f528&oe=58DD0D8D

Lew Barrett
12-21-2016, 12:12 AM
Ian responded actually and correctly, I think. Do you have any examples of where the "elite media" reported that the electors might actually thwart Trump? I saw it in fake news places like Facebook, but never from a professional media operation. Did you? Where?

But if the "elite media" has failed us, which media should we believe in? Which sources, specifically, offer coverage of daily events in a way that you find satisfactory?

Sky Blue expressed respect for you somewhere in this while chastising Keith. I think he was possibly doing the divide and conquer between how reasonable you are and how annoying Keith is.

But he''s yet to answer your question or provide a link to those major elite media articles. I think he doesn't respect you enough to answer your question, or himself enough to admit he is wrong.

Sky Blue
12-21-2016, 01:02 AM
That the pieces were stacked a mile high (and they were, as a manifest fact) is not really the issue. The issue is whether the disclaimers (as TomF argues) were sufficient to render the suspense-filled week nothing but a mere exercise in historical intellectualism (for no odd reason).

When have the intricacies of the college vote ever mattered so much, as a journalistic matter, in the wake of an election? Never.

The media sold a narrative about Russia and then ran wild with a big show about the college and the faithless elector concept, promoting the possibility as both a business matter and an exercise in partisan activism.

It was delegitimizing activism on a bit of fake news about procedural voting. It was a bust.

oznabrag
12-21-2016, 02:11 AM
Sky Blue expressed respect for you somewhere in this while chastising Keith. I think he was possibly doing the divide and conquer between how reasonable you are and how annoying Keith is.

But he''s yet to answer your question or provide a link to those major elite media articles. I think he doesn't respect you enough to answer your question, or himself enough to admit he is wrong.

Wait . . . Keith's annoying?

Is this wunna doze Sky Blue Echo-chamber specials, where up is down and virtue is vice?

What?

David G
12-21-2016, 02:22 AM
Wait . . . Keith's annoying?

Is this wunna doze Sky Blue Echo-chamber specials, where up is down and virtue is vice?

What?

Sure. Keith is WAY annoying. If you are busily trying to 'make your own reality' and hate being confronted with facts, data, and sound logic. Not to mention pithy charts illustrating it all. Annoying. So annoying. No one listens to him anymore because he insists on those ugly facts. Sad. So sad. <sigh>

C. Ross
12-21-2016, 06:40 AM
That the pieces were stacked a mile high (and they were, as a manifest fact) is not really the issue. The issue is whether the disclaimers (as TomF argues) were sufficient to render the suspense-filled week nothing but a mere exercise in historical intellectualism (for no odd reason).

When have the intricacies of the college vote ever mattered so much, as a journalistic matter, in the wake of an election? Never.

The media sold a narrative about Russia and then ran wild with a big show about the college and the faithless elector concept, promoting the possibility as both a business matter and an exercise in partisan activism.

It was delegitimizing activism on a bit of fake news about procedural voting. It was a bust.

Sky, how about an example of a news story that "promoted the possibility" of faithless electors. Not an opinion piece. A news story.

One will do.

Sky Blue
12-21-2016, 10:09 AM
Google is your friend, Cris. Try a search using the terms "CNN," "faithless elector," "2016." I've already done it, and there's a raft of material there. You can sift it at your leisure.

Good luck.

oznabrag
12-21-2016, 10:11 AM
Google is your friend, Cris. Try a search using the terms "CNN," "faithless elector," "2016." I've already done it, and there's a raft of material there. You can sift it at your leisure.

Good luck.

In other words, you got nothin'.

Sky Blue
12-21-2016, 10:25 AM
The media sold a narrative about Russia and then ran wild with a big show about the college and the faithless elector concept...


Here's an example of CNN's good work. Watch how the discussion moves from electors into a neat segue into the Russia story.


https://youtu.be/gsNOnNo3-J0

Keith Wilson
12-21-2016, 10:43 AM
Final results:

Trump gets 304 electoral votes, 227 for Clinton, 7 for somebody else. Barring unforeseen events, he'll be the next president.

Clinton wins the popular vote by 2,864,974, or 2.1%. This is the largest popular-vote winning margin ever for a losing candidate, with the exception of the chaotic election of 1876.

Sky Blue
12-21-2016, 10:46 AM
It's working exactly as intended.

http://theweek.com/articles/668508/electoral-college-actually-awesome

Keith Wilson
12-21-2016, 10:51 AM
If you think 'as intended' includes giving more far more weight to the voters in small states, or the voters for the winning candidate in closely-contested states, then yes, it is. Why 'as intended' should be an argument for or against anything is another matter.

I think you just like the result, thus defend the process.

Sky Blue
12-21-2016, 11:12 AM
Consider the headline of this piece in the context of my argument:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/politics/electoral-college-donald-trump-vote/index.html

TomZ
12-21-2016, 12:05 PM
304 to 227? Why you could only describe that as a landslide mandate! :-)
What a majority!
Thank God the country isn't ruled by NY and LA alone.

C. Ross
12-21-2016, 12:14 PM
Sky, are the two CNN pieces representative of your complaint?

If so, I don't see the merits of your complaint. They both look/sound and read like straight news stories. In the end, there were seven "faithless electors", more than we've seen since the 1872 election in technical grounds and the 1832 election on substantive grounds. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

Are you saying the media should have ignored this story? Should they have worded it differently to be more pro-Trump? Or is it just the media's job to present mostly pro-Trump stories? Is there a media outlet that you see as fair and objective that you'd hold out as the standard?

Finally, there's this:


(https://twitter.com/download)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1980294624/DJT_Headshot_V2_bigger.jpgDonald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)

The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
10:45 PM - 6 Nov 2012 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266038556504494082)



(https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=266038556504494082)

157,386157,386 Retweets (https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=266038556504494082)

111,480111,480 likes (https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=266038556504494082)



https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1980294624/DJT_Headshot_V2_reasonably_small.jpg (https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)
Donald J. Trump– http://forum.woodenboat.com/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhBQAGAIAAAP///////yH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAAFAAYAAAIFjI pawUAOw==Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump (https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)

http://forum.woodenboat.com/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhDQAMAIAAAP///////yH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAANAAwAAAILjI py 0Po5y0ngIAOw==


We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!
8:29 PM - 6 Nov 2012
13.8K RETWEETS6,183 LIKES

And your guy said he'd contest the election if he didn't trust the result.

You may not like it, but your guy is intentionally controversial and anti-establishment. His collisions with the establishment are newsworthy. Reporting on it is not necessarily anti-Trump or pro-Establishment (though it could be).

Your opinion is exactly equal in importance to mine, but I do not see the media conspiracy that you do. I actually see much of the media learning its lessons from how badly they misunderstood the Trump phenomenon. And no, I'm not a sheeple and I don't need to be woken up, thank you.

David G
12-21-2016, 01:12 PM
Another bit of new info - from Nate Silver. Apparently voters did shift toward Trump in the very end. Lending credence to the notion that Comey's maneuvering was, indeed, important. Maybe even critical --

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voters-really-did-switch-to-trump-at-the-last-minute/?ex_cid=story-facebook