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View Full Version : Global warming, the Totten Glacier, 3.5 meters worth of water.



skuthorp
12-18-2016, 04:11 PM
I'll not elaborate myself, the science is adequate.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-17/totten-glacier-antarctica/8129230

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/8129204-3x2-940x627.jpg

Daniel Noyes
12-18-2016, 04:25 PM
I'll not elaborate myself, the science is adequate.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-17/totten-glacier-antarctica/8129230

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/8129204-3x2-940x627.jpg

not a good sign...

JimD
12-18-2016, 04:26 PM
It's going to be years before that thing melts but the average global attention span projects about 24 hours into the future, or roughly until Donald Trump's next tweet. Now, if it were going to raise the sea level a few meters before Monday Night Football you might get some interest. Then again, maybe not.

PeterSibley
12-18-2016, 06:11 PM
Lead author Steve Rintoul said it was the first time scientists had been able to test the hypothesis that warm ocean waters were driving the glacier's thinning.
"We knew the Totten has been thinning faster than other glaciers in East Antarctica, but nobody has known exactly why until we took these measurements," he said.
"We found that warmer ocean water is reaching the cavity through this channel at temperatures capable of melting the ice shelf at the point where it meets ground.

"This is very important to know because the glacier's grounding line acts as a sort of plug that restricts the rate of ice flow, and helps hold back massive volumes of ice above sea level."
Dr Rintoul said it was important to be able to predict the Totten glacier's future behaviour, because it contained enough sea ice to raise global sea levels by about 3.5 metres.
"So the real importance of the research is that it helps provide some clues about how sea level might change in the future."
The publication of the research today comes as scientists make their way back to the Totten glacier, where they hope to find more clues about what controls the amount of warm water reaching the glacier.
A team of about 30 scientists, technicians and PhD students left Hobart on December 8 and plan to arrive at the glacier in late December.
Dr Rintoul said their goal was to learn more about the pathways that bring the warm water up from the deep ocean.
"Understanding the physical processes delivering heat to the ice shelf will help us assess the vulnerability of the East Antarctic ice sheet to future changes in the Southern Ocean," he said.
"What we have shown is that warm water reaches the glacier. What we need to know is what's going to happen in the future.

"What is going to change the amount of heat getting to the ice shelf? Will the rate of melting go up or down? And what implication does that have for the future of the Antarctic ice sheet?"

Dannybb55
12-19-2016, 06:51 AM
A real terrorist would string a line of h.e. across that ice and drop it in the water.

LeeG
12-19-2016, 07:24 AM
A real terrorist would string a line of h.e. across that ice and drop it in the water.

A few nukes would be needed. The opening is 65km by 30km. Electing Trump is good enough to pull the US away from a leadership role in addressing global warming.

http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/geoscience/science-totten-glacier-threat-east-antarctic-ice-02608.html

oznabrag
12-19-2016, 08:15 AM
http://www.catholic.org/files/images/media/2015/01/27/14224001194686_700.jpg

skuthorp
12-19-2016, 08:17 AM
I doubt Hill. would have been much better, and anyhow it's a bit late in the game as far as I can see. What needs to be done and what will are entirely different matters. And so are what need to be done and what's acceptable to present populations. In petty terms, people can sit at home and be afraid for the future of the world but still turn on the AC when it's hot.

Paul Pless
12-19-2016, 08:23 AM
the science is adequateoh you poor misguided soul

Too Little Time
12-19-2016, 10:27 AM
It's going to be years before that thing melts but the average global attention span projects about 24 hours into the future, or roughly until Donald Trump's next tweet. Now, if it were going to raise the sea level a few meters before Monday Night Football you might get some interest. Then again, maybe not.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/antarcticas-totten-glacier-has-become-dangerously-unstable-a7041951.html

... vast regions of the Totten Glacier in East Antarctica are fundamentally unstable.

... recent research has suggested that Totten can only lose a tiny 4.2 percent of its remaining ice shelf before the structure starts losing the ability to brace the larger glacier, holding it in place.
The glacier sliding into the ocean has the same effect as the glacier melting.

oznabrag
12-19-2016, 10:32 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/antarcticas-totten-glacier-has-become-dangerously-unstable-a7041951.html

The glacier sliding into the ocean has the same effect as the glacier melting.

And if it slides fast enough, it will propagate a tsunami of unimaginable proportions.

If the entire Eastern Seaboard is to be swept away, revealing a new coastline somewhere in Eastern Tennessee, it won't be too terrible a loss if it takes Trump along with.

oznabrag
12-19-2016, 10:34 AM
And if it slides fast enough, it will propagate a tsunami of unimaginable proportions.

If the entire Eastern Seaboard is to be swept away, revealing a new coastline somewhere in Eastern Tennessee, it won't be too terrible a loss if it takes Trump along with.

And, before y'all get all rootin' tootin' about it, consider all the remarks that y'all would be better off if Texas ceased to exist.

JimD
12-19-2016, 11:35 AM
A ginormous chunk of ice sliding off the land mass and into the ocean creating an immediate and undeniable global crisis might change the minds of a few deniers. But even then, a lot of deniers accept GW. They just don't accept AGW. However, we would at least be forced to shift into high gear regarding dealing with the change as opposed to ignoring it.

Too Little Time
12-19-2016, 12:18 PM
A ginormous chunk of ice sliding off the land mass and into the ocean creating an immediate and undeniable global crisis might change the minds of a few deniers. But even then, a lot of deniers accept GW. They just don't accept AGW. However, we would at least be forced to shift into high gear regarding dealing with the change as opposed to ignoring it.
Currently, I don't see a lot of people moving away from the coast. Many of them are believers of global warming. So there are people on both sides who don't believe they will be harmed r don't care.

The problem with the article is that it does not give a time frame.

Canoeyawl
12-19-2016, 12:27 PM
It will change the definition of "infrastructure"

Canoeyawl
12-19-2016, 12:46 PM
Some do not have their heads in the sand

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Oosterscheldedam_storm_Rens_Jacobs.jpg/1916px-Oosterscheldedam_storm_Rens_Jacobs.jpg

amish rob
12-19-2016, 12:53 PM
Gosh. You guys are so blind.

If the big ice cube falls in the ocean, it will cool it off, and everything will be fine! Duh!:D

Please, please, please recognize the joke. Joking.

Viva la Anthropocene!

Peace,
Robert

Too Little Time
12-19-2016, 03:46 PM
Some do not have their heads in the sand
The bad news is that when the sea level rises 10 feet more it will spend much more time closed.

I don't think the concept is suitable for protection against rising sea level.

JimD
12-19-2016, 04:22 PM
Currently, I don't see a lot of people moving away from the coast. Many of them are believers of global warming. So there are people on both sides who don't believe they will be harmed r don't care.

The problem with the article is that it does not give a time frame.The lure of the sea is strong, eh? I suppose many people accept that in the long run they will lose their real estate but would rather live the life they want while they can. As for the dream lifestyle ending in a single catastrophic event, it's on par with living on a tectonic fault line or in the shadow of an active volcano. Home is where the heart is, as they say.

Canoeyawl
12-19-2016, 06:25 PM
The bad news is that when the sea level rises 10 feet more it will spend much more time closed.

I don't think the concept is suitable for protection against rising sea level.

They do, and have studied it perhaps more than you. (But, they are also building houses and buildings capable of floating)

"That was back when much of the world still saw climate change and sea-level rise as distant threats. But not the Dutch.

“We were already busy with the climate change before it was worldwide,” says Peter Persoon, an engineer turned tour guide at the barrier. “What we are busy with is the future. What are the circumstances in 2100? That’s why we are preparing our country.”


It’s also why cities around the world are turning to the Dutch for their expertise in living with water, honed over generations.


Persoon says the Maeslant barrier should protect Rotterdam from everything up to a one-in-10,000-year storm. Compare that to the levees protecting New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina, which were built for a one-in-100-year event. It cost more than $500 million — a big sum but just a small slice of what the country is investing to fight the effects of climate change.


And Persoon says it’s money well-spent. The Maeslant barrier has already had to be closed once, in 2007. And sea-level rise projections suggest it could be closing a lot more often in the coming decades.


“What we tell the people here in the Netherlands is, if the country is flooded the damage will be at least 700 billion euros,” Persoon says. “If you instead spend every year one billion euros, you spread the bill over 700 years. That’s, I think, the Dutch way.”


That “Dutch way” goes back hundreds of years. Most of the country’s people live less than a meter above sea level, or even below it. The modern Dutch government actually grew out of medieval “water boards” that managed the windmills and canals that have long helped keep the low-lying country dry.


But in the 21st century it’s a challenge on a whole different scale. And you can see the Dutch taking it on just about wherever you look."

http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-20/sea-levels-rise-rotterdam-floats-top-example-how-live-water

amish rob
12-19-2016, 06:52 PM
https://youtu.be/l-VHZJlyxNA
My kids just showed me this...

Peace,
Robert

Too Little Time
12-19-2016, 07:31 PM
They do, and have studied it perhaps more than you. (But, they are also building houses and buildings capable of floating)
Their levee design appears to be based on a 1' rise in sea level by 2060. We are talking about 10' of rise due to the glacier.

It is difficult to determine what effect 10' of sea level rise will have on the gates or even the levees.

But more to the point of this thread, it is unlikely that the Dutch solution is appropriate for the US coast.

CK 17
12-19-2016, 07:53 PM
3 meters rise will make the Syria refugee crisis look like a walk in the park. The problems are way more than water.

WX
12-19-2016, 09:17 PM
https://youtu.be/l-VHZJlyxNA
My kids just showed me this...

Peace,
Robert


I've downloaded that, very nice.

StevenBauer
12-19-2016, 10:49 PM
Wait. When trump sees where Mar-A-Lago is on that map maybe he'll change his tune. He's flip flopped on almost everything else so far and he's not even inaugurated yet.



Steven

Canoeyawl
12-19-2016, 10:53 PM
Their levee design appears to be based on a 1' rise in sea level by 2060. We are talking about 10' of rise due to the glacier.

It is difficult to determine what effect 10' of sea level rise will have on the gates or even the levees.

But more to the point of this thread, it is unlikely that the Dutch solution is appropriate for the US coast.

Better to deny it, absolutely...