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PeterSibley
11-27-2016, 04:54 PM
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/the-dark-rigidity-of-fundamentalist-rural-america-a-view-from-the-inside/

A pretty good understanding of Christian fundamentalism too. I know fundamentalists, good people and good friends but there is a gulf between us on things that can be considered and accepted, no matter how good the evidence.

Paul Pless
11-27-2016, 04:58 PM
perhaps you might have included the word 'white' in your thread title
or, would that have been redundant?

PeterSibley
11-27-2016, 05:02 PM
I probably should have .... or is it a given?

skuthorp
11-27-2016, 05:09 PM
"Tribe" seems to be the most important word in that article.
But rather as the maligned Canute legend says, in the bitter end you cannot hold back the tide. You can ignore it for a time but not hold it back.

PeterSibley
11-27-2016, 06:34 PM
Belief is all.

Too Little Time
11-27-2016, 08:43 PM
I guess that is a story that educated liberals want to believe.

elf
11-27-2016, 08:46 PM
It's sure a theory for which there is an awful lot of evidence.

Gerarddm
11-27-2016, 08:58 PM
The sickening thing, of course, is that EVERYBODY should be a part of the 'educated elite', whether they be in Palo Alto Ca or Puhdunk, AL.

American education has clearly failed in the past 50 years.

Ian McColgin
11-27-2016, 09:11 PM
The same essay written about Islamic fundamentalists would be readily accepted by our righties.

I was not raised among people like this but I've plenty of relatives in Oklahoma and Kansas who are right there. And I went to a protestant theology school where "liberal" evangelism always takes fundamentalism seriously. From what I know, this essay correctly identifies the futile approaches. And, in referring back to FDR, it hints at the practical means to engage people in a better future.

Peerie Maa
11-28-2016, 04:53 AM
The sickening thing, of course, is that EVERYBODY should be a part of the 'educated elite', whether they be in Palo Alto Ca or Puhdunk, AL.

American education has clearly failed in the past 50 years.

Did you get that line that said college students from fundi families learned the stuff that disagreed with their world view in order to pass the exam, and then put it out of their mind when they graduated. I have read the same thing from another source.
It is not your education system, it is your lying politicians and preachers propagating a world view to hold on to power.

PeterSibley
11-28-2016, 05:11 AM
Who is the author please?

Please follow the link shown.

PeterSibley
11-28-2016, 05:19 AM
I have been told by my local equivalent of the US rural conservatives referenced above that all the evidence found so far, artifacts, carbon dating of aborigine habitation of the Australian land mass for 65000 years is rubbish...... the world having been created 7000 years ago.

Evidence versus faith in the literal Bible. No contest.

Peerie Maa
11-28-2016, 05:25 AM
I have been told by my local equivalent of the US rural conservatives referenced above that all the evidence found so far, artifacts, carbon dating of aborigine habitation of the Australian land mass for 65000 years is rubbish...... the world having been created 7000 years ago.

Evidence versus faith in the literal Bible. No contest.

Which is not actually written down. Some old bishop added up all of the begats and came up with a date and actual time of day. :D

Too Little Time
11-28-2016, 11:46 AM
Who is the author please?
http://www.rawstory.com/author/justice/

It is difficult to determine the author. Might be this person. Or it might be a stock photo.

Peerie Maa
11-28-2016, 12:06 PM
Sorry, I see no person related to the piece. Perhaps it's a problem with my tablet?

I'll switch over to my windows 10 machine and see if I get a more informative view.

It would be a lot simpler though, if Peter would just tell me who the author is of this piece that he posted. Sorry to be a bother.

It is a writer who posts as Forsetti.

Peerie Maa
11-28-2016, 12:44 PM
Oh, so the author is anonymous? The picture of the praying woman is not the author, because the the "writer" intimates that he is male? Was there just one author, or more than one?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the piece. It took me back to a creative writing class. When I read the line " I dated their calico skirted daughters" I was hooked, and I read the piece carefully. Most enjoyable. The only disappointment I have is that the author fails to explain how he (she) broke free from this unbreakable prison. I would love to know, but since I don't know who the author(s) is (are) I guess I'll never find out.

Without emailing the question direct, knowing the authors name, address, age, place of birth etc would not yield that data anyhow.

Peerie Maa
11-28-2016, 02:11 PM
Everyone has different standards. It's been a very long since I've read anything at all that didn't have the author's name and bio, or a readily available track to a more detailed bio. Even when I read fiction for pleasure, I check out the author's bio. I would think in this new age of click bait my approach would be more common, but I guess not.

Great stuff though: ". I worked off and on, on their rural farms. I dated their calico skirted daughters. I camped, hunted, and fished with their sons...."

Yep, read my tagline.

This guy has quality, but like me before I retired, might have good reasons for writing behind a pen-name.

PeterSibley
11-28-2016, 04:12 PM
Yep, read my tagline.

This guy has quality, but like me before I retired, might have good reasons for writing behind a pen-name.

What Nick said, I looked and couldn't find a name either so there's likely a reason. The writing is good and most authors like their name known.

paulf
11-28-2016, 04:27 PM
Forsetti

These guys: http://www.alternet.org/staff

Grain of salt required.

PeterSibley
11-28-2016, 04:34 PM
The essay rang true to my local experience of Christian fundamentalism.

Peerie Maa
11-28-2016, 05:07 PM
So you couldn't find the name of the author either? Yet, rather than saying so initially, you redirected me to the link????

Would it matter to you if the writer's account of his (her) background was totally made up and that the article was carefully orchestrated to make a particular point based on someone's imagined local experience? I'm not saying that this is the case, but it could be cleared up very simply. Interestingly, the Raw Story submittal guidlines say that no opinion pieces will be accepted for publication. I believe that this is an opinion piece.

Why do so many Americans suspect that so many Americans are liars? It would be simple for the editorial authority to have the "no opinion pieces" requirement proven. It only takes a conversation to establish the veracity of the piece prior to acceptance for publication.

PeterSibley
11-28-2016, 05:45 PM
So you couldn't find the name of the author either? Yet, rather than saying so initially, you redirected me to the link????

Would it matter to you if the writer's account of his (her) background was totally made up and that the article was carefully orchestrated to make a particular point based on someone's imagined local experience? I'm not saying that this is the case, but it could be cleared up very simply. Interestingly, the Raw Story submittal guidlines say that no opinion pieces will be accepted for publication. I believe that this is an opinion piece.

From my experience it is very likely a true story from the writer's experience, I could have written a somewhat similar essay.

paulf
11-28-2016, 05:56 PM
Go to their web site , it explains things fairly well.

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/

PeterSibley
11-28-2016, 06:20 PM
It does, thanks.

PeterSibley
11-28-2016, 06:44 PM
I was remarking on the similarities between my local experience and the author's views.

PhaseLockedLoop
11-28-2016, 07:31 PM
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/the-dark-rigidity-of-fundamentalist-rural-america-a-view-from-the-inside/

A pretty good understanding of Christian fundamentalism too. I know fundamentalists, good people and good friends but there is a gulf between us on things that can be considered and accepted, no matter how good the evidence.

Christian fundamentalists have, over the years, been generally opposed to progress. Backward, you know. And yet it's progress that's put everyone--everyone, scientists and non-scientists alike--at risk of catastrophic climate change, not fundamentalism. So it behooves those of us who are scientifically inclined to recognize that our highly educated world view is not something to be proud of, historically.

Peerie Maa
11-29-2016, 05:43 AM
So it behooves those of us who are scientifically inclined to recognize that our highly educated world view is not something to be proud of, historically.

Money, and the shares owned by shareholders are not highly educated. Money and shares do not think nor understand, they just act over the short term to grow. That is your problem. Shareholders should sell their shares in big oil and big coal and invest in renewables. That is the only strong message that will be listened to.

Unfortunately it is easier, the lazy way, for big oil and big coal to employ denialist shills rather than re-jig their businesses to develop benign uses for their product or move into renewables instead.

Keith Wilson
11-29-2016, 08:37 AM
So it behooves those of us who are scientifically inclined to recognize that our highly educated world view is not something to be proud of, historically.Right. For the first time in all of human history, (at least in the richer countries) most of us consistently have enough to eat, water we can drink without getting sick, and most of our children live to grow up. We almost certainly won't die of plague, or smallpox, or typhoid, or cholera, or TB. The vast majority of our children will learn how to read, and will have knowledge of the wider world unimaginable to somebody 500 years ago.

Don't give us this nonsense about how the scientific worldview is not something to be proud of. When you are dealing with the physical wold (and we all have to) nothing else works. Ignorance does not have a good record. Yes, we certainly have plenty of problems, but they're mostly caused by ignorance and lies, deliberate or accidental , very rarely too much knowledge. (And FWIW, fundamentalism as such is a relatively recent phenomenon.)

TomF
11-29-2016, 09:02 AM
It would be worthwhile noting, as neither the OP's article nor the University of New Hampshire's pieces do, that conservative Christianity isn't the only kind.

That in fact, Christianity isn't a homogenous blob of reactionary slop when it comes to any number of issues. Pretty much every "progressive" social issue of the past 250 years or so, including Ecological issues, will find Christians both at the movement's origins, and key supporters throughout the movement's arc.

Forty years ago, Herself worked as a summer student illustrating an "EarthCare Toolkit" for a collection of Canadian mainline churches, in response to a groundswell then among members to understand environmental care within a Christian theology of being called to be Stewards of Creation, not dominators of it. That thinking had already been around within some sectors of the Church for decades, but was widespread enough 40 years ago to be prompting development of a (in Church terms) "mass market" guide.

Please don't make the mistake of imagining that the "Christianity" defined by, for instance, the views of Mike Pence, is the only extant example or the one which must be considered the most "faithful" to Christ's teachings. I consider it a heresy.

elf
11-29-2016, 11:20 AM
(And FWIW, fundamentalism as such is a relatively recent phenomenon.)
Not at all, Keith. Fundamentalism is Judaism, Paulism, Catholicism, Lutheranism, Methodism, all the religions of the Muslim world. They are all fundamentalist. Even some of the more benign sounding religons of the far east fall into fundamentalist postures. Fundamentalism has to be understood as any spiritual or political structure which has rules which proscribe the freedom of the human mind to live a creative life respectful of others freedoms.

That is where, if there was a Christ, Jesus ran afoul of the officialdom when he espoused the broadest possible tolerance for all people.

Boater14
11-29-2016, 11:51 AM
The search for the author ends with me. I confess. You are all commenting on an article written by a retiree, sitting in his big chair with a cup of coffee taking a break from putting up decorations. I have a degree in elementary education, managed buildings and renovation projects up to 50 million dollars. I pulled that article out of my bu** and given your biases you wholeheartedly agree or not. Here's a hint. You see an article, Google the author, delete it or read on based on the writers credability.

PeterSibley
11-29-2016, 06:23 PM
Unless your own experience supports the story as written.

paulf
11-29-2016, 10:03 PM
The search for the author ends with me. I confess. You are all commenting on an article written by a retiree, sitting in his big chair with a cup of coffee taking a break from putting up decorations. I have a degree in elementary education, managed buildings and renovation projects up to 50 million dollars. I pulled that article out of my bu** and given your biases you wholeheartedly agree or not. Here's a hint. You see an article, Google the author, delete it or read on based on the writers credability.

We did, and you ain't the author.
Again, grain of salt required.

Breakaway
11-29-2016, 10:15 PM
Unless your own experience supports the story as written.

But you'd agree that a work of fiction could support the actual experience of a real human being, yes? And that being the case, one should take care when proffering the material to others as a first-person account or observation. Yes?

Kevin

Ian McColgin
11-29-2016, 10:46 PM
The blog is the blog and the author explains why he or she chooses to remain anonomous, just as many here publish under a code name. It's not reporting that stands or falls on small discrete facts. Rather it's a judgement about how certain people behave, in this case, fundamentalists. The central description holds whether it's Christian fundamentalists as in this essay, or Jewish fundamentalists or the Islamic fundamentalists like the Taliban. The heart of the psychology is the same. People who are in denial about this won't see it. And perhaps there are some who really have not met fundamentalists, have not seen people who profoundly reject helping the oppressed or seeing the knowledge we gain through science as one of God's gifts, not Satan's lure.

One of my theology profs used to gaze at the class and say: "Our Blessed Savior commands us to love God with all our hearts, all our bodies, all our souls, and all our minds. Why be so fearful of that last."

PeterSibley
11-30-2016, 12:42 AM
But you'd agree that a work of fiction could support the actual experience of a real human being, yes? And that being the case, one should take care when proffering the material to others as a first-person account or observation. Yes?

Kevin

There are lessons to be learned even from fiction Kevin..... though to my eye is true, my experience collaborates it.

Breakaway
11-30-2016, 12:58 AM
There are lessons to be learned even from fiction Kevin..... though to my eye is true, my experience collaborates it.

Agreed, Peter! And fair enough!

Kevin

C. Ross
11-30-2016, 01:02 AM
Oh puhleeze. What a load of polemic crap.

I paused in the first paragraph:


The real problem is rural America doesnít understand the causes of their own situations and fears and they have shown no interest in finding out. They donít want to know why they feel the way they do or why they are struggling because they donít want to admit it is in large part because of choices theyíve made and horrible things theyíve allowed themselves to believe.

And this sealed the deal:


The problem isnít that I donít understand these people. The problem is they donít understand themselves, the reasons for their anger/frustrations, and donít seem to care to know why.

The rest of the article is screed without evidence, other than when he talks to people in rural America they find him disagreeable and don't care for lectures. Ya think?

Other than Keith, I don't think there's anyone else on this thread who lives in "ignurant white racist flyover stoopid land". My experience does not match the author's. Let's see how the Ignurant states (midwestern, rural, and "bible belt" states) rank nationally.

According to the Washington Post, the "smartest states". Well golly gee, looka them Ignurant midwestern states (darker am smarter)!

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2015/11/ScoresSmarts.jpg&w=480



States with highest high school graduation rates? Nine of the top ten are Ignurant states: Iowa, New Jersey, Alabama, Texas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, New Hampshire, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri http://www.usnews.com/high-schools/best-high-schools/slideshows/10-states-with-the-highest-high-school-graduation-rates

States with highest rates of college-bound high school seniors? 18 of the top half are Ignurant states. http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/index.php?submeasure=63&year=2010&level=nation&mode=graph&state=0

States where 9th graders have the best chance of going to college? A whole lotta white Great Plains Ignurant states!

http://www.higheredinfo.org/mapgen/state.php?datacol=18144

Percentage of adults older than 25 with a college degree. Do you see a giant sinkhole in the center of the country? No, neither do I.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Map_of_states_percentage_of_population_with_Bachel or%27s_Degree_or_Higher_in_2009.svg/360px-Map_of_states_percentage_of_population_with_Bachel or%27s_Degree_or_Higher_in_2009.svg.png

PeterSibley
11-30-2016, 01:19 AM
Cris, I read it as an explanation of the priority some people, specifically "fundamentalists" give to belief versus any other evidence. As my experience collaborates. It's about people, not geography.

C. Ross
11-30-2016, 01:22 AM
So how about the idea that religious people are stupid, biased and closed-minded?

Pew Research says the MOST religious people see the LEAST conflict between their religious beliefs and scientific views.

And this isn't just a Unitarian - Episcopal thing. White evangelicals are more likely to say that science and religion are generally compatible than other groups, statistically tied with Hispanic Catholics. People with no religious faith are much more likely to see science and religion at odds with each other. http://www.pewinternet.org/2015/10/22/perception-of-conflict-between-science-and-religion/


http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2015/10/PI_2015-10-22_religion-and-science_1-02.png

There are not significant differences in education levels comparing religious and non-religious people. Mainstream protestants and non-believers are essentially identical in educational attainment, and evangelical protestants are slightly less educated (e.g., 57% of evangelicals have more than a high school education compared to 63% of mainline protestants and 62% of non-believers). http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/educational-distribution/

C. Ross
11-30-2016, 01:55 AM
Peter, the title of the article was supplied not by the author, who originally posted this on a blog under a different title, but the fine editors at Raw Story looking for clickbait.

His first paragraph is:


As the aftermath of the election of Donald Trump is being sorted out, a common theme keeps cropping up from all sides: “Democrats failed to understand white, working-class, fly-over America.”
Trump supporters are saying this. Progressive pundits are saying this. Talking heads across all forms of the media are saying this. Even some Democratic leaders are saying this. It doesn’t matter how many people say it, it is complete bull***t. It is an intellectual/linguistic sleight of hand meant to throw attention away from the real problem. The real problem isn’t east coast elites who don’t understand or care about rural America. The real problem is rural America doesn’t understand the causes of their own situations and fears and they have shown no interest in finding out. They don’t want to know why they feel the way they do or why they are struggling because they don’t want to admit it is in large part because of choices they’ve made and horrible things they’ve allowed themselves to believe.
His primary lens is "white, working-class, fly-over America" or "rural America".

The first time he refers to Fundamentalism is a couple of paragraphs in:


In deep-red white America, the white Christian God is king, figuratively and literally. Religious fundamentalism is what has shaped most of their belief systems. Systems built on a fundamentalist framework are not conducive to introspection, questioning, learning, change.

First, Fundamentalism is by no means a majority religion in America, it is a tiny colorful splinter. Again, referring to the Pew data. http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/ About 25% of Americans identify themselves as Evangelical Christians, but that is a wide umbrella under which Fundamentalists live. For example, 7.8% of Americans are Southern Baptist Convention or Independent Baptists, who are by no means Fundamentalists. There are many religious groups who represent less than one half of one percent of Americans, but one large group that you might broadly paint as Fundamentalists are the Pentacostals, who represent about 3.6% of Americans.

Second, let's dig into beliefs of Pentacostals as surveyed by Pew. http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-family/pentecostal-family-evangelical-trad/

They are 59% white, 21% are immigrants, half make less than $30,000 a year, and half have a high school education or less. 69% say that religion is their guide to right and wrong (with 23% saying "common sense"). So other than the white bias of our author, these are the people he's talking about. What do they believe?

47% are Republicans, 33% Democrats, and 20% politically unaffiliated.
51% are Conservative, 25% Moderate, 19% Liberal
50% say we should have smaller government with fewer services, 43% say we should have bigger government with more services
49% say that government aid to the poor does more harm than good, 46% more good than harm
28% believe abortion should be legal in all/most cases, 69% say it should be illegal
28% say homosexuality should be accepted, 63% say it should be discouraged
20% favor/strongly favor same-sex marriage, 74% oppose/strongly oppose it
48% say stricter environmental regulation is worth the cost, 45% say it isn't
9% say humans evolved due to natural processes, 22% say humans evolved due to God's design, 2% "evolved but don;t know how" and 61% say humans always existed as they do today.

So, these Fundamentalists are more conservative than not, but they are hardly the closed-minded, mean, racist, ignorant simpletons that the article depicts.

Durnik
11-30-2016, 02:23 AM
the article stated the educated wouldn't get it - and they were right, you don't!


David


"before you attribute the disposition of rural Americans solely to religious beliefs you should be aware that "religiosity" has been declining everwhere including rural America. How do you measure "religiosity?" God only knows. But church attendance has been going down. In rural states actual, self reported church attendance is one stat, it might be 30 to 50%, but actual church attendance is likely half those numbers."


I live with these people, you are wrong. They get their social & political views straight from the pulpit. Except for highways (& sometimes there too) you can't drive more than 5 miles without seeing 3 churches.. & come sunday (& wednesday) they are packed. that article is spot on. you can either read it carefully & try to understand, or prove it correct & poo, poo it - but if you don't understand the problem (& recent voting results strongly suggest you don't), you'll never fix it. I warned the lot of you this was coming & why. You didn't believe me, you don't believe the article, & yet - it came. What's Keith's .sig again?


Thanks for posting that Peter.



bobby

PeterSibley
11-30-2016, 03:10 AM
add Saturday to the list.

Peerie Maa
11-30-2016, 03:20 AM
Oh puhleeze. What a load of polemic crap.

I paused in the first paragraph:



And this sealed the deal:



The rest of the article is screed without evidence, other than when he talks to people in rural America they find him disagreeable and don't care for lectures. Ya think?

Other than Keith, I don't think there's anyone else on this thread who lives in "ignurant white racist flyover stoopid land". My experience does not match the author's. Let's see how the Ignurant states (midwestern, rural, and "bible belt" states) rank nationally.

According to the Washington Post, the "smartest states". Well golly gee, looka them Ignurant midwestern states (darker am smarter)!

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2015/11/ScoresSmarts.jpg&w=480



States with highest high school graduation rates? Nine of the top ten are Ignurant states: Iowa, New Jersey, Alabama, Texas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, New Hampshire, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri http://www.usnews.com/high-schools/best-high-schools/slideshows/10-states-with-the-highest-high-school-graduation-rates

States with highest rates of college-bound high school seniors? 18 of the top half are Ignurant states. http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/index.php?submeasure=63&year=2010&level=nation&mode=graph&state=0

States where 9th graders have the best chance of going to college? A whole lotta white Great Plains Ignurant states!

http://www.higheredinfo.org/mapgen/state.php?datacol=18144

Percentage of adults older than 25 with a college degree. Do you see a giant sinkhole in the center of the country? No, neither do I.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Map_of_states_percentage_of_population_with_Bachel or%27s_Degree_or_Higher_in_2009.svg/360px-Map_of_states_percentage_of_population_with_Bachel or%27s_Degree_or_Higher_in_2009.svg.png

Cris, you are way off.
1.- Intelligence is not that relevant. The son of a colleague of mine was intelligent enough to gain entrance to Oxford, but could not figure out why the chain would not stay on his bike. There are different sorts of intelligence and different sorts of dumb.
2- The article itself pointed out the the bright ones did the work at college to pass the exams, and then wiped their minds of the stuff that contradicted their world view.

oznabrag
11-30-2016, 07:53 AM
Peter, the title of the article was supplied not by the author, who originally posted this on a blog under a different title, but the fine editors at Raw Story looking for clickbait.

His first paragraph is:


His primary lens is "white, working-class, fly-over America" or "rural America".

The first time he refers to Fundamentalism is a couple of paragraphs in:



First, Fundamentalism is by no means a majority religion in America, it is a tiny colorful splinter. Again, referring to the Pew data. http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/ About 25% of Americans identify themselves as Evangelical Christians, but that is a wide umbrella under which Fundamentalists live. For example, 7.8% of Americans are Southern Baptist Convention or Independent Baptists, who are by no means Fundamentalists. There are many religious groups who represent less than one half of one percent of Americans, but one large group that you might broadly paint as Fundamentalists are the Pentacostals, who represent about 3.6% of Americans.

Second, let's dig into beliefs of Pentacostals as surveyed by Pew. http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-family/pentecostal-family-evangelical-trad/

They are 59% white, 21% are immigrants, half make less than $30,000 a year, and half have a high school education or less. 69% say that religion is their guide to right and wrong (with 23% saying "common sense"). So other than the white bias of our author, these are the people he's talking about. What do they believe?

47% are Republicans, 33% Democrats, and 20% politically unaffiliated.
51% are Conservative, 25% Moderate, 19% Liberal
50% say we should have smaller government with fewer services, 43% say we should have bigger government with more services
49% say that government aid to the poor does more harm than good, 46% more good than harm
28% believe abortion should be legal in all/most cases, 69% say it should be illegal
28% say homosexuality should be accepted, 63% say it should be discouraged
20% favor/strongly favor same-sex marriage, 74% oppose/strongly oppose it
48% say stricter environmental regulation is worth the cost, 45% say it isn't
9% say humans evolved due to natural processes, 22% say humans evolved due to God's design, 2% "evolved but don;t know how" and 61% say humans always existed as they do today.

So, these Fundamentalists are more conservative than not, but they are hardly the closed-minded, mean, racist, ignorant simpletons that the article depicts.



the article stated the educated wouldn't get it - and they were right, you don't!


David


"before you attribute the disposition of rural Americans solely to religious beliefs you should be aware that "religiosity" has been declining everwhere including rural America. How do you measure "religiosity?" God only knows. But church attendance has been going down. In rural states actual, self reported church attendance is one stat, it might be 30 to 50%, but actual church attendance is likely half those numbers."


I live with these people, you are wrong. They get their social & political views straight from the pulpit. Except for highways (& sometimes there too) you can't drive more than 5 miles without seeing 3 churches.. & come sunday (& wednesday) they are packed. that article is spot on. you can either read it carefully & try to understand, or prove it correct & poo, poo it - but if you don't understand the problem (& recent voting results strongly suggest you don't), you'll never fix it. I warned the lot of you this was coming & why. You didn't believe me, you don't believe the article, & yet - it came. What's Keith's .sig again?


Thanks for posting that Peter.



bobby

I gotta go with bobby on this one, Cris. These people are 'educated fools'.

They elected a crime family to lead the Nation, and they don't give a rip that the Nation is being led to the slaughter. We are watching a handful of evil men unravel our democracy (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?215729-Is-it-quot-Fake-News-quot-the-Claim-that-Trump-Won-the-Popular-Vote&p=5080305#post5080305), and they were not put into position by wise and educated people.

Just look at some of the boiling cauldron of hate-fueled lies that spew forth right here on this board, and tell me that these people are anything but deplorable, willfully ignorant rubes.

Tom Hunter
11-30-2016, 08:54 AM
There is a lot of hate and blind prejudice in the article, and a lot of us vs them. Them is poorly defined, which is always helpful when you write and article saying "they" are bad. It reminds me of the things I don't like about Trump.