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ishmael
11-26-2016, 12:49 PM
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2016/11/23/the-armed-citizen-louisiana/

Canoeyawl
11-26-2016, 12:54 PM
Does that pistol warm up when you take it into the bed at night?

McMike
11-26-2016, 12:59 PM
About one instance per year in LA where a gun is used to thwart a crime. How does that compare to those who were killed in the committing of a crime? I'll ask you to look it up since you are the one trying to make the point.

Canoeyawl
11-26-2016, 01:02 PM
Louisiana
2nd highest in the nation...


Death by firearm per 100,000 population: 19.3


No permit required for a purchase of a firearm.

ishmael
11-26-2016, 01:07 PM
When was the last time you heard reports of this sort of incident on CNN?

Paul Pless
11-26-2016, 01:08 PM
Louisiana
2nd highest in the nation...


Death by firearm per 100,000 population: 19.3


No permit required for a purchase of a firearm.but rural gun laws should be different than urban gun laws
you know, country folks aren't gangsters and they inherently have more common sense than city folk

Paul Pless
11-26-2016, 01:09 PM
When was the last time you heard reports of this sort of incident on CNN?i don't watch tv news
i haven't seen cnn in years, maybe close to a decade

McMike
11-26-2016, 01:14 PM
When was the last time you heard reports of this sort of incident on CNN?

Admittedly, never. Because it's an insignificant number of cases. It literally makes no point when compared to gun deaths overall, except to the few families it impacted. Would you like to find out to what degree the opposite statistic that Canoeyawl quoted has impacted the communities? No? Then drop it, it's an ignorant argument you're making for unregulated gun proliferation.

ishmael
11-26-2016, 01:15 PM
Paul, I don't have any form of TV except a vid player.

My point in posting this, and there are many other stories there, was to balance out the several horror stories about guns posted here weekly, if not daily.

McMike
11-26-2016, 01:17 PM
Paul, I don't have any form of TV except a vid player.

My point in posting this, and there are many other stories there, was to balance out the several horror stories about guns posted here weekly, if not daily.

Our point is; there is no way to balance a conversation about two subjects that are completely out of balance. Care to be honest in admitting that?

Canoeyawl
11-26-2016, 01:33 PM
When was the last time you heard reports of this sort of incident on CNN?

CNN doesn't do Fake News

Spin_Drift
11-26-2016, 02:12 PM
Gentlemen, I'm with Ish on this. The criminals and lowlife can get guns without any problem. With evil intentions, they go after peaceful people who are not doing anything wrong. I think it's good that the good peaceful people have an equal opportunity to protect themselves and their families with an equalizer. I would have not wanted to see any of the people in those stories not be able to protect themselves. I'd rather see the criminals be injured or killed that the non-criminals.

Whose life is worth more, –yours or the one's coming after you? The criminal's or the peaceful people protecting themselves and their families????

What would you do if you were in a situation where you were at your home or in your car and someone came to you threatening you and your family with a gun??

I've liked and handled guns since I was a child and I've never had to shoot anybody, but I surely think that my, my family's and friends have more survival value than some lowlife with evil intentions toward us...

And one more thing, if the thugs didn't have guns they would commit their crimes and murders with knives, clubs, or self made weapons. They would find a way. Removing all the guns from the non criminals wouldn't make this world a better place. The thugs and criminals would still have guns and you would have nothing but maybe a knife for the protection of you and your family ....

Spin_Drift
11-26-2016, 02:15 PM
:)

Welcome back Ishmael. I've missed you.

McMike
11-26-2016, 02:45 PM
Gentlemen, I'm with Ish on this. The criminals and lowlife can get guns without any problem. With evil intentions, they go after peaceful people who are not doing anything wrong. I think it's good that the good peaceful people have an equal opportunity to protect themselves and their families with an equalizer. I would have not wanted to see any of the people in those stories not be able to protect themselves. I'd rather see the criminals be injured or killed that the non-criminals.

Whose life is worth more, –yours or the one's coming after you? The criminal's or the peaceful people protecting themselves and their families????

What would you do if you were in a situation where you were at your home or in your car and someone came to you threatening you and your family with a gun??

I've liked and handled guns since I was a child and I've never had to shoot anybody, but I surely think that my, my family's and friends have more survival value than some lowlife with evil intentions toward us...

And one more thing, if the thugs didn't have guns they would commit their crimes and murders with knives, clubs, or self made weapons. They would find a way. Removing all the guns from the non criminals wouldn't make this world a better place. The thugs and criminals would still have guns and you would have nothing but maybe a knife for the protection of you and your family ....

Most just want better records, most want scientific studies done in order to better understand the problem, most simply want better regulations. The reality is, you live in a very different world than most of America, also, the reality is, no sensible regulation will stop you or your family from hunting with firearms, or even propose a outright ban on guns outside of some unreasonable technology. My dogs do a better job at deterring property crime than any gun will do and I won't ever have to worry about killing my wife or neighbor.

With all due respect, your arguments range from unfounded to irrelevant. The statistics show that guns present a net negative to society as they allowed to exist now in America.

Some reasonable laws I'd like to see implemented:

1) If your gun is used to commit a crime or used in the suicide or attempt of suicide, you should no longer have the right to own one, if someone has died as a result of you losing track of your gun, you should serve a mandatory prison sentence of five years, no sympathy if it was your kid. Lock them up. Same goes if you kill an innocent bystander while exercising your 2nd amendment right, assuming the death that resulted was unintentional.

2) All stand your ground laws should be stricken. All deaths that are claimed to be in self defense should be investigated individually by their own circumstances.

3) all guns should be registered, but only on the state level. The Federal Government would need a warrant to get such information on an individual basis.

4) federal law should require a 2 week waiting period in all states.

5) mandatory training, like cops have to do, every year. To bad if it costs to much, so does driving a car.

6) No carrying of a gun, unless in a locked case, and unless in an approved hunting area, private property with no public access, or a certified shooting range. There is literally no evidence that carrying a gun makes you safer, show me the facts if you think I'm wrong. Even NYC cops (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire.html), with all their training, succeeded in hitting 9 bystanders, the trust we place in untrained, everyday citizens is insanely misplaced.

It's called taking responsibility, something the gun community hasn't done for years. Guns are seen as toys, not the powerful tools they are, if you can't self-govern, and you haven't, then government should do it for you.

epoxyboy
11-26-2016, 03:05 PM
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2016/11/23/the-armed-citizen-louisiana/

So, to put this into perspective, that is only thirteen instances going back as far as 2002, where good guys with guns have had a positive outcome.
That equates to what, the monthly death toll from toddlers with guns? Pathetic.

Pete

Peerie Maa
11-26-2016, 03:18 PM
Gentlemen, I'm with Ish on this. The criminals and lowlife can get guns without any problem. With evil intentions, they go after peaceful people who are not doing anything wrong. I think it's good that the good peaceful people have an equal opportunity to protect themselves and their families with an equalizer. I would have not wanted to see any of the people in those stories not be able to protect themselves. I'd rather see the criminals be injured or killed that the non-criminals.

Whose life is worth more, –yours or the one's coming after you? The criminal's or the peaceful people protecting themselves and their families????

What would you do if you were in a situation where you were at your home or in your car and someone came to you threatening you and your family with a gun??

I've liked and handled guns since I was a child and I've never had to shoot anybody, but I surely think that my, my family's and friends have more survival value than some lowlife with evil intentions toward us...

And one more thing, if the thugs didn't have guns they would commit their crimes and murders with knives, clubs, or self made weapons. They would find a way. Removing all the guns from the non criminals wouldn't make this world a better place. The thugs and criminals would still have guns and you would have nothing but maybe a knife for the protection of you and your family ....

Why are US citizens so different from us? You are not a different species. Why can you not develop as a society to keep up with the rest of us?

The same year (1937), the Home Secretary ruled that self-defence was no longer a suitable reason for applying for a firearm certificate and directed police to refuse such applications on the grounds that "firearms cannot be regarded as a suitable means of protection and may be a source of danger".[70] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_policy_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-70)

Your reference to knives and clubs is a straw man. You cannot do this with a baseball bat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Santa_Monica_shooting

Chris249
11-26-2016, 11:14 PM
Gentlemen, I'm with Ish on this. The criminals and lowlife can get guns without any problem. With evil intentions, they go after peaceful people who are not doing anything wrong. I think it's good that the good peaceful people have an equal opportunity to protect themselves and their families with an equalizer. I would have not wanted to see any of the people in those stories not be able to protect themselves. I'd rather see the criminals be injured or killed that the non-criminals.

Whose life is worth more, –yours or the one's coming after you? The criminal's or the peaceful people protecting themselves and their families????

What would you do if you were in a situation where you were at your home or in your car and someone came to you threatening you and your family with a gun??

I've liked and handled guns since I was a child and I've never had to shoot anybody, but I surely think that my, my family's and friends have more survival value than some lowlife with evil intentions toward us...

And one more thing, if the thugs didn't have guns they would commit their crimes and murders with knives, clubs, or self made weapons. They would find a way. Removing all the guns from the non criminals wouldn't make this world a better place. The thugs and criminals would still have guns and you would have nothing but maybe a knife for the protection of you and your family ....

So why is your rate of violent crime so much higher than that of comparable nations? Are you all really terrible people? Surely not.

What are the chances that a gun will protect your family from violent crime, and how does that compare to the chance that someone in your family will suffer an accidental gun death?

Waddie
11-27-2016, 03:34 AM
Nick; Why are US citizens so different from us? You are not a different species. Why can you not develop as a society to keep up with the rest of us?

The reason you have strict gun laws is that your culture accepts strict gun laws. They never would have passed in the first place until a critical mass of people wanted and supported them. That's how politics generally works in a democracy. Politicians follow the wave until it peaks then they get out front and claim to have led the way. Drunk driving laws were strengthened because a grass roots movement reached critical mass at which time politicians sat up and took notice. Anti-smoking laws were passed once public opinion turned sufficiently against smoking. Then politicians got right on it.

There are simply not enough Americans who really want to change our gun culture to the point where they make it a priority social issue and develop large grass roots movements that are able to sway the public, create a critical mass, and force some politicians to actually take steps to restrict guns more than they do now. Gun control, like abortion, is an issue a few people care about very passionately, but for most of the public it just isn't at the forefront.

The other problem is that, unlike UK residents, Americans pick and choose what laws they will obey. And despite charts that show crime at historic lows, we still lead the world in almost every category of crime. The American "rugged individual" cuts his own path....................

regards,
Waddie

Joe (SoCal)
11-27-2016, 05:13 AM
Most just want better records, most want scientific studies done in order to better understand the problem, most simply want better regulations. The reality is, you live in a very different world than most of America, also, the reality is, no sensible regulation will stop you or your family from hunting with firearms, or even propose a outright ban on guns outside of some unreasonable technology. My dogs do a better job at deterring property crime than any gun will do and I won't ever have to worry about killing my wife or neighbor.

With all due respect, your arguments range from unfounded to irrelevant. The statistics show that guns present a net negative to society as they allowed to exist now in America.

Some reasonable laws I'd like to see implemented:

1) If your gun is used to commit a crime or used in the suicide or attempt of suicide, you should no longer have the right to own one, if someone has died as a result of you losing track of your gun, you should serve a mandatory prison sentence of five years, no sympathy if it was your kid. Lock them up. Same goes if you kill an innocent bystander while exercising your 2nd amendment right, assuming the death that resulted was unintentional.

2) All stand your ground laws should be stricken. All deaths that are claimed to be in self defense should be investigated individually by their own circumstances.

3) all guns should be registered, but only on the state level. The Federal Government would need a warrant to get such information on an individual basis.

4) federal law should require a 2 week waiting period in all states.

5) mandatory training, like cops have to do, every year. To bad if it costs to much, so does driving a car.

6) No carrying of a gun, unless in a locked case, and unless in an approved hunting area, private property with no public access, or a certified shooting range. There is literally no evidence that carrying a gun makes you safer, show me the facts if you think I'm wrong. Even NYC cops (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire.html), with all their training, succeeded in hitting 9 bystanders, the trust we place in untrained, everyday citizens is insanely misplaced.

It's called taking responsibility, something the gun community hasn't done for years. Guns are seen as toys, not the powerful tools they are, if you can't self-govern, and you haven't, then government should do it for you.


Right on Y>

Peerie Maa
11-27-2016, 05:37 AM
The reason you have strict gun laws is that your culture accepts strict gun laws. They never would have passed in the first place until a critical mass of people wanted and supported them. That's how politics generally works in a democracy. Politicians follow the wave until it peaks then they get out front and claim to have led the way. Drunk driving laws were strengthened because a grass roots movement reached critical mass at which time politicians sat up and took notice. Anti-smoking laws were passed once public opinion turned sufficiently against smoking. Then politicians got right on it.

There are simply not enough Americans who really want to change our gun culture to the point where they make it a priority social issue and develop large grass roots movements that are able to sway the public, create a critical mass, and force some politicians to actually take steps to restrict guns more than they do now. Gun control, like abortion, is an issue a few people care about very passionately, but for most of the public it just isn't at the forefront.

The other problem is that, unlike UK residents, Americans pick and choose what laws they will obey. And despite charts that show crime at historic lows, we still lead the world in almost every category of crime. The American "rugged individual" cuts his own path....................

regards,
Waddie

So basically you are a criminal society that does not care about the regular avoidable killing of US citizens and their children?

Australia was founded as a colony of criminals, but they got over it. ;)

jack grebe
11-27-2016, 07:33 AM
So basically you are a criminal society that does not care about the regular avoidable killing of US citizens and their children?

Australia was founded as a colony of criminals, but they got over it. ;)

First off, no where in his post does he use the word criminal, that is just you
in a feeble attempt to distort the issue.

Second, the U.K. had their chance yrs. ago at influencing American laws.
They failed miserably.... Now STFU, you don't even live here.

Reynard38
11-27-2016, 07:41 AM
Why are US citizens so different from us? You are not a different species. Why can you not develop as a society to keep up with the rest of us?



Please don't take it personally, but we don't want to be like you. I seem to remember something from history class about a war being fought over this.

McMike
11-27-2016, 07:49 AM
Please don't take it personally, but we don't want to be like you. I seem to remember something from history class about a war being fought over this.

Actually, their way of policing, their gun culture, they are way more sane than ours. Their culture is a multi-cultural mishmash, wildly varying education levels, with different concepts of justice, they are far mor like us than different and they do it far better. To dismiss them out of hand just to be snarky is a mistake.

McMike
11-27-2016, 07:52 AM
First off, no where in his post does he use the word criminal, that is just you
in a feeble attempt to distort the issue.

Second, the U.K. had their chance yrs. ago at influencing American laws.
They failed miserably.... Now STFU, you don't even live here.

American ignorance and exceptionalism at it's finest. I am an American and I would like you to speak to his comments intelligently. Or do you have any other excuses to avoid the elephant in the room that he shines a light on?

jack grebe
11-27-2016, 08:00 AM
American ignorance and exceptionalism at it's finest. I am an American and I would like you to speak to his comments intelligently. Or do you have any other excuses to avoid the elephant in the room that he shines a light on?

What part seems to bother you? The part about us winning independence from their
way of thinking or the part about his non residence meaning he has no part in our
decision making?

Joe (SoCal)
11-27-2016, 08:39 AM
What part seems to bother you? The part about us winning independence from their
way of thinking or the part about his non residence meaning he has no part in our
decision making?


How about the part about guns, civilized society, and needless slaughter of millions of Americans. How about Sandy Hook ? How about .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................


Ahhhh you know what nevermind it's just impossible to continue to do this. Gun people that just think one way ....... I'm truly losing my ability to even try..... this is not my country anymore..... you've elected an imbecile, a cartoon reality show buffoon and any intelligent person pointing out statistics on gun related deaths, suicides yadda yadda yadda are just drowned out. It just doesnt matter, facts no longer matter, nothing matters. This is now the land of Anti education, anti intellectual, anti political correctness ( what's the opposite? Political Incorrectness ? ). This is now the land of the gun toting alt-right, misogynistic, xenophobic, muslim hating, Mexican wall building making America Great Again bigots . This is not my America.

It's truly depressing and the death toll will continue to rise. Sandy Hook will be a blip on the NRA devotee of this Trump style America.

It truly is hopeless, and very sad.

Paul Pless
11-27-2016, 08:46 AM
What part seems to bother you? The part about us winning independence from their
way of thinking or the part about his non residence meaning he has no part in our
decision making?


you're wasting your time jack, your emotional based argument is lost on the gun control crowd

Paul Pless
11-27-2016, 08:47 AM
How about the part about guns, civilized society, and needless slaughter of millions of Americans. How about Sandy Hook ? How about .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................


Ahhhh you know what nevermind it's just impossible to continue to do this. Gun people that just think one way ....... I'm truly losing my ability to even try..... this is not my country anymore..... you've elected an imbecile, a cartoon reality show buffoon and any intelligent person pointing out statistics on gun related deaths, suicides yadda yadda yadda are just drowned out. It just doesnt matter, facts no longer matter, nothing matters. This is now the land of Anti education, anti intellectual, anti political correctness ( what's the opposite? Political Incorrectness ? ). This is now the land of the gun toting alt-right, misogynistic, xenophobic, muslim hating, Mexican wall building making America Great Again bigots . This is not my America.

It's truly depressing and the death toll will continue to rise. Sandy Hook will be a blip on the NRA devotee of this Trump style America.

It truly is hopeless, and very sad.

you're wasting your time joe, your fact based argument is lost on the pro gun crowd

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-27-2016, 08:50 AM
Yeah - but you're all having fun while kids die - what's not to like?

Joe (SoCal)
11-27-2016, 08:53 AM
you're wasting your time joe, your fact based argument is lost on the pro gun crowd

I know ..... I'm just glad I never have to explain to anyone why my gun killed their little child, or why I shot my best friend because I thought he was breaking into my home, or I got drunk and depressed and had easy access to a convenient efficient way to pull a trigger and make a short term decision permanent. Or ...... or ..... or

It's just so depressing it actually hurts. :(

Paul Pless
11-27-2016, 08:56 AM
Yeah - but you're all having fun while kids die - what's not to like?rural kids or urban kids?

Canoez
11-27-2016, 08:57 AM
rural kids or urban kids?

Both.

Reynard38
11-27-2016, 09:14 AM
Actually, their way of policing, their gun culture, they are way more sane than ours. Their culture is a multi-cultural mishmash, wildly varying education levels, with different concepts of justice, they are far mor like us than different and they do it far better. To dismiss them out of hand just to be snarky is a mistake.

Don't take my comment as being critical in any way of residents of the UK. I like the country and its people. I do not however want to live under their laws or their Goverment. If I did I'd move there.

Do I think our gun laws could be modified? Absolutely! I think you should have to take a comprehensive class to carry concealed. That class should culminate in a pass/fail realistic simulation. The liscense should be honored in ALL 50 states.
If you've got small kids in the house your guns should be kept locked up. There are small gun safes that fit on a bedside table that allow instant access via finger print scan, so no excuse there.
Open carry should be banned. Period. No reason for it other than to make a statement.

I will adamantly fight ANY legislation or politician that wants to remove my ability to keep a loaded firearm in my home or vehicle. Background checks to do so? No problem. Right gets revoked if one commits a felony or misdemeanor involving a weapon? Sure. Mental illness? No gun.

ishmael
11-27-2016, 09:21 AM
What Reynard38 said.

John Smith
11-27-2016, 09:42 AM
CNN doesn't do Fake News

That's not entirely true. If memory serves me, they, and MSNBC, picked up on the ACORN video before they learned it was fake. I'm going to take a wild guess and suspect when Comey said they found new emails, CNN also referred to it as 'bombshell' with the implications that word brings.

McMike
11-27-2016, 09:42 AM
Don't take my comment as being critical in any way of residents of the UK. I like the country and its people. I do not however want to live under their laws or their Goverment. If I did I'd move there.

Do I think our gun laws could be modified? Absolutely! I think you should have to take a comprehensive class to carry concealed. That class should culminate in a pass/fail realistic simulation. The liscense should be honored in ALL 50 states.
If you've got small kids in the house your guns should be kept locked up. There are small gun safes that fit on a bedside table that allow instant access via finger print scan, so no excuse there.
Open carry should be banned. Period. No reason for it other than to make a statement.

I will adamantly fight ANY legislation or politician that wants to remove my ability to keep a loaded firearm in my home or vehicle. Background checks to do so? No problem. Right gets revoked if one commits a felony or misdemeanor involving a weapon? Sure. Mental illness? No gun.

We mostly agree on the regulation end and I think your proposals go a long way to solve the problem, I'd vote for you.

McMike
11-27-2016, 09:45 AM
What part seems to bother you? The part about us winning independence from their
way of thinking or the part about his non residence meaning he has no part in our
decision making?

Don't be so simple. Their way of thinking? The Revolution was a long time ago, time to let it go.

Reynard38
11-27-2016, 10:16 AM
We mostly agree on the regulation end and I think your proposals go a long way to solve the problem, I'd vote for you.

Thanks, but don't hold your breath :)
Senator Isakson lives just down the street and is an occasional attendee at our coffee group. I for one would NOT want his job!

Ian McColgin
11-27-2016, 10:25 AM
And our revolution, for those cruyptopatriots who ignore the writings of our founders, was much about "the rights of Englishmen". Including "the right to bear arms" which goes back in English law to the Middle Ages at least.

Peerie Maa
11-27-2016, 10:26 AM
First off, no where in his post does he use the word criminal, that is just you
in a feeble attempt to distort the issue.

Second, the U.K. had their chance yrs. ago at influencing American laws.
They failed miserably.... Now STFU, you don't even live here.


And despite charts that show crime at historic lows, we still lead the world in almost every category of crime. The American "rugged individual" cuts his own path..........

That is crime mentioned twice, crime is committed by criminals. Yes?
Reading or comprehension difficulties, or just run out of valid arguments?

Breakaway
11-27-2016, 03:19 PM
Why are US citizens so different from us? You are not a different species. Why can you not develop as a society to keep up with the rest of us?

It seems like there's little difference between us, as peoples, but really the experience of living here is different. And that experience shapes the individuals that make up the society.

We are a larger country by far. That has an effect.
Our geography is more diverse: That has an effect
We have no monarchs. That has an effect.
We have a shorter history as a nation. That has an effect.
Our political system is different: That has an effect.
etc
etc
and on
and on.

To state, " We do it, so should you", is overly-simplistic. Rather than alike, we are, in the end, really quite different than you, as a culture. Is there a problem? Yes. But the answers don't lie in quippy one-liners.

Kevin

Kevin

Peerie Maa
11-27-2016, 04:25 PM
It seems like there's little difference between us, as peoples, but really the experience of living here is different. And that experience shapes the individuals that make up the society.

We are a larger country by far. That has an effect.
Our geography is more diverse: That has an effect
We have no monarchs. That has an effect.
We have a shorter history as a nation. That has an effect.
Our political system is different: That has an effect.
etc
etc
and on
and on.

To state, " We do it, so should you", is overly-simplistic. Rather than alike, we are, in the end, really quite different than you, as a culture. Is there a problem? Yes. But the answers don't lie in quippy one-liners.

Kevin

Kevin

Yep, you lot are comfortable that your citizens and children killed with guns, we are not. The reasons that you give do not explain nor justify that disconnect.

Boater14
11-27-2016, 04:35 PM
Somehow those stories seem different somehow from the 4 yo who shot the 2yo in philly the other night. Dumb city kids, eh.

Canoeyawl
11-28-2016, 12:15 PM
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2016/11/23/the-armed-citizen-louisiana/

Ah! Louisiana in the news today. I wonder where the "good guys" were?

"Two women and eight men between the ages of 20 and 37 were shot, the chief said. Five have been released from hospitals and the four who remain hospitalized are expected to make a full recovery, Harrison said.


"We don't believe any of those shot were the intended targets," Harrison said.


The deceased was identified as 25-year-old Demontris Toliver of Lafayette, Louisiana, a man with a "promising life," Mayor Mitch Landrieu said Sunday.


The shooting took place during Bayou Classic Weekend, four days of festivities that include a Thanksgiving parade, a Saturday college football game between Grambling State and Southern University and a Saints game on Sunday.


The popular tourist area was more crowded than usual when the shooting happened because the college game had ended some six hours earlier in the nearby Superdome."

cnn

Paul Pless
11-28-2016, 12:28 PM
The deceased was identified as 25-year-old Demontris Toliver of Lafayette, Louisiana, a man with a "promising life,"

bummer

Peerie Maa
11-28-2016, 12:54 PM
Ah! Louisiana in the news today. I wonder where the "good guys" were?

"Two women and eight men between the ages of 20 and 37 were shot, the chief said. Five have been released from hospitals and the four who remain hospitalized are expected to make a full recovery, Harrison said.


"We don't believe any of those shot were the intended targets," Harrison said.


The deceased was identified as 25-year-old Demontris Toliver of Lafayette, Louisiana, a man with a "promising life," Mayor Mitch Landrieu said Sunday.


The shooting took place during Bayou Classic Weekend, four days of festivities that include a Thanksgiving parade, a Saturday college football game between Grambling State and Southern University and a Saints game on Sunday.


The popular tourist area was more crowded than usual when the shooting happened because the college game had ended some six hours earlier in the nearby Superdome."

cnn


Police arrested two men at the scene for illegally carrying weapons, one of whom was a victim of the shooting, Harrison said.Not really a "Good" guy with as gun, but still did not stop the carnage even though they had the "means" to do so.

BrianY
11-28-2016, 01:03 PM
Wait a second.....

LA has the 4th highest crime rate in the nation and all the LA legislature has done about it is to make guns easier to get?!

Am I the only one that see a problem with this?

Why should the legislature and stage government go to all the bother and expense to reduce the crime rate when they can just tell everyone to arm themselves? I guess it's easier to arm everybody and tell them to fend for themselves than to actually try to address the causes of crime.

Paul Pless
11-28-2016, 01:04 PM
the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun. . .

jack grebe
11-28-2016, 01:48 PM
Not really a "Good" guy with as gun, but still did not stop the carnage even though they had the "means" to do so.

which, given the situation,may have been the smart thing to do.

unless he had a clear shot at a positively identified target, he had
no business shooting. Just cause one has a gun does not mean he
has a shot

Paul Pless
11-28-2016, 02:05 PM
preach it bro

jack grebe
11-28-2016, 02:30 PM
preach it bro

Unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears.

Their blind hatred of something that they can't twist
to their advantage just eats them alive.

Bob Adams
11-28-2016, 02:31 PM
Most just want better records, most want scientific studies done in order to better understand the problem, most simply want better regulations. The reality is, you live in a very different world than most of America, also, the reality is, no sensible regulation will stop you or your family from hunting with firearms, or even propose a outright ban on guns outside of some unreasonable technology. My dogs do a better job at deterring property crime than any gun will do and I won't ever have to worry about killing my wife or neighbor.

With all due respect, your arguments range from unfounded to irrelevant. The statistics show that guns present a net negative to society as they allowed to exist now in America.

Some reasonable laws I'd like to see implemented:

1) If your gun is used to commit a crime or used in the suicide or attempt of suicide, you should no longer have the right to own one, if someone has died as a result of you losing track of your gun, you should serve a mandatory prison sentence of five years, no sympathy if it was your kid. Lock them up. Same goes if you kill an innocent bystander while exercising your 2nd amendment right, assuming the death that resulted was unintentional.

2) All stand your ground laws should be stricken. All deaths that are claimed to be in self defense should be investigated individually by their own circumstances.

3) all guns should be registered, but only on the state level. The Federal Government would need a warrant to get such information on an individual basis.

4) federal law should require a 2 week waiting period in all states.

5) mandatory training, like cops have to do, every year. To bad if it costs to much, so does driving a car.

6) No carrying of a gun, unless in a locked case, and unless in an approved hunting area, private property with no public access, or a certified shooting range. There is literally no evidence that carrying a gun makes you safer, show me the facts if you think I'm wrong. Even NYC cops (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire.html), with all their training, succeeded in hitting 9 bystanders, the trust we place in untrained, everyday citizens is insanely misplaced.

It's called taking responsibility, something the gun community hasn't done for years. Guns are seen as toys, not the powerful tools they are, if you can't self-govern, and you haven't, then government should do it for you.

Sure. And as soon as you can assure me the criminals with guns have complied, I will gladly do so also.

Canoez
11-28-2016, 02:35 PM
Sure. And as soon as you can assure me the criminals with guns have complied, I will gladly do so also.

Sorry, Bob, but that's crap and you know it.

There is a reason they're criminals.

Bob Adams
11-28-2016, 02:37 PM
I do agree strongly with #1.

Glen Longino
11-28-2016, 02:42 PM
You armchair commandos tickle the hell out of me!:)
You do realize that you're more likely to kill an innocent bystander than a bad guy don't you? Don't you??????:)

Peerie Maa
11-28-2016, 02:49 PM
Unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears.

Their blind hatred of something that they can't twist
to their advantage just eats them alive.

Talking to me?

The fact that so many Americans are killed and the rest of America is so complacent about it does not generate hatred. It does generate dismay, amazement, sadness, some level of contempt, but not hatred.

jack grebe
11-28-2016, 02:57 PM
As JoP would say........

Keep rocking the celebration PM

Daniel Noyes
11-28-2016, 03:02 PM
Sure. And as soon as you can assure me the criminals with guns have complied, I will gladly do so also.

so true... but then do the Libs care? they are applauding Obama releasing Drug Dealers from prison... So glad Trumpy WON :D


The only gun involved was the one the cop shot the bad guy with.

The guy jumped the curb in his car and plowed into pedestrians. He then hopped out of the car with a butcher knife and started slashing people.

The cop was there within a minute, told the guy to drop the knife. He didn't comply, so the cop shot him 3 times and killed him. The suspect was the only fatality.

Bob Adams
11-28-2016, 03:17 PM
Trumpy is a wood motor yacht.

John of Phoenix
11-28-2016, 03:25 PM
Your only hope is that you and yours are never the victims of gun violence.

Guns in the home increase risk: Rather than being used for self-defense, guns in the home
are 22 times more likely to be involved in accidental shootings, homicides, or suicide
attempts. For every one time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally
justifiable shooting, there were 4 unintentional shootings, 7 criminal assaults or homicides,
and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
http://nyagv.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Accidental-Shootings-NYAGV.pdf

22 times more likely.

Canoeyawl
11-28-2016, 06:25 PM
You armchair commandos tickle the hell out of me!:)
You do realize that you're more likely to kill an innocent bystander than a bad guy don't you? Don't you??????:)

This eight or nine were all innocent bystanders.
The two shooting at each other ran away.

"We don't believe any of those shot were the intended targets," Harrison said.
cnn

Chris249
11-28-2016, 06:46 PM
It seems like there's little difference between us, as peoples, but really the experience of living here is different. And that experience shapes the individuals that make up the society.

We are a larger country by far. That has an effect.
Our geography is more diverse: That has an effect
We have no monarchs. That has an effect.
We have a shorter history as a nation. That has an effect.
Our political system is different: That has an effect.
etc
etc
and on
and on.

To state, " We do it, so should you", is overly-simplistic. Rather than alike, we are, in the end, really quite different than you, as a culture. Is there a problem? Yes. But the answers don't lie in quippy one-liners.

Kevin

Kevin

I agree with much of your thinking, Kevin, and it must be frustrating to see your nation often criticised by those outside it. However, a quick look at per capita murder rates by nations seems to indicate that there is no correlation between area of a country (look at Canada and Australia, for example); a large population (many of the most murderous nations are small); diversity of geography (although geography is an interesting factor ) and type of government. Nations with such diverse systems as Bermuda, Mongolia, Argentina and Zimbabwe have similar homicide rates. I think South Africa (murder rate of 33) has roughly the same government system as Singapore (murder rate of 0.3). Obviously correlation and causation are issues in such a complicated question and states rights are strong in the USA, but it would be interesting to know more about the relationship of type of government and homicide rates.

Part of the reason we outsiders stick our oar into US business may be because the US is such a vital country to the world, and also....well, some of it may be a reaction to the many people and the huge amount of media saying that the American Way is the best way. Obviously we Aussies and Brits do the same thing, so you're welcome to stick it to us! :-)