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Mgjohn
10-30-2016, 12:22 PM
Hi all, I am new to this forum, boats and sailing but in my early retirement have taken on a challenging project to renovate an old and very dry clinker built walker Tideway dinghy with the hope of learning to sail her in the future.
I have really enjoyed browsing the forum and found lots of useful and interesting information.
Currently the boat is in my garage upside down where I am laboriously stripping off the old paint and varnish using a heat gun and sandpaper and at the same time cleaning out the lands with an old hacksaw blade where the rivets and boards are a bit loose.
Once this is complete I hope to be able to clench up the rivets where possible and replace any damaged ones.
I would really appreciate some advice on how to deal with some large holes around some of the rivets heads and have attached links to a couple of photos.
Many thanks for any advice.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/145429718@N02/DW141Z

https://www.flickr.com/gp/145429718@N02/88L3zv

Peerie Maa
10-30-2016, 12:49 PM
Welcome to the forum. The FAQ's tell you how to post picures

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Unfortunately those look like pockets of rot. You may be able to fix them by gluing in a dutchman, using epoxy. Are there just those two?

Mgjohn
10-30-2016, 01:24 PM
Hi Nick, unfortunately there are quite a few of these areas scattered around all below the waterline.
Were my photos difficult to access ? Was there just 2 to see ?
thanks
John

Peerie Maa
10-30-2016, 01:34 PM
They were easy enough, but not everyone will click a link.
So how many rot pockets per plank? How many fastenings separate each one?

wizbang 13
10-30-2016, 01:43 PM
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5792/30032030473_e9b6727de5_z_d.jpghttps://farm6.staticflickr.com/5621/30665674095_47a213a4e6_z_d.jpg

keith66
10-30-2016, 02:00 PM
You could probably get rid of most of holes like that with dutchmen glued in. They are good litle boats that hold their price well if in good condition. Out of curiosity what is her name? as i did some work on one some years back. She was Mehalah, owned by an elderly lady & sailed out of Benfleet creek for many years. One day she sprang a leak & she asked me to take a look. The interior of the centreboard case had turned to mush below the waterline & there was just 1/8" of good timber left. I put a new hog, case & a load of ribs. I dont recall earning much money out of the job but it was good karma to get the old boat & her owner sailing again!
As far as the rivets go the builder Walker used quite light gauge nails & they will most likely be quite corroded by now. Hardening up existing rivets is a waste of time, it would be better to refasten with nails the next gauge size up if the planks are really loose. Im currently rebuilding a Yachting world Dayboat which is similar in construction.

Peerie Maa
10-30-2016, 02:10 PM
^Using light gauge nails when building is good. It allows the replacement of a plank with the next size nail without having to use massively over gauge fastenings.

Mgjohn
10-30-2016, 02:53 PM
Hi Keith, unfortunately I don't know much about her history or original name & number but think she has always been kept local to Leigh on sea.
I don't think she is the boat you are referring to as I'm finding some filler and mastic between the lands and between the last board and the keel which I need to remove and see what's underneath??
Replacing the nails with the next size is a great idea, I assume it's done a few at a time ?
Although I'm not experienced in this type of work I have the time and enthusiasm to give it a go...
Ive attached another photo of the hull.
thanks
John
http://forum.woodenboat.com/webkit-fake-url://77f61805-9943-4469-9d98-a0d2459e2d0b/imagejpeg

Peerie Maa
10-30-2016, 03:02 PM
https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5662/30369776240_83bcf8efdf_b.jpg

Hmm, suspicious. All in rows. Are they on timbers? Have you prodded with an awl to see how far through the rot goes?

Still with two sound nails between each bad spot it is doable, if the rot does not penetrate through both planks.

keith66
10-30-2016, 03:11 PM
On a boat of that age some filler & mastic here & there is normal, her number should be carved into the centre thwart or aft in the hog itself. Same number should be on the mainsail, (Mehalahs were blue though most were tan).

Re the holes in the planks, the Tideway was always fitted with rubbing strips or bilge runners about 3/4" square & i have seen them with one per side & two per side, The holes in your boat appear to be where the bilge runners were screwed on to the outside of the hull.

Mgjohn
10-30-2016, 03:38 PM
Ah yes, I did unscrew 4 long strips of square timber before I started to remove the paint. The wood seems very solid around the holes and between each board so hopefully it should all tighten up with new nails.
one more question- should I soak her with water before refastening or after ???

Peerie Maa
10-30-2016, 04:22 PM
Ah yes, I did unscrew 4 long strips of square timber before I started to remove the paint. The wood seems very solid around the holes and between each board so hopefully it should all tighten up with new nails.
one more question- should I soak her with water before refastening or after ???

Generally speaking no. Refasten dry, especially important if she is going to be dry sailed, rather than kept on a mooring.

keith66
10-30-2016, 05:24 PM
If all the old varnish has been stripped off a good application of boat soup such as linseed oil & cuprinol or linseed oil & turpentine will put some life back in the wood & help slow down drying cycles. On similar boats i have had sucess with knifing in Evomastic into the seam. This is a non drying oil based goo that is cheap & great for sealing gaps in old clinker boats, you can get it at Jewsons or online. Excess will squeeze out & it will not cause damage.

Mgjohn
11-03-2016, 04:56 PM
I've now removed the filler between the first plank and the keel and found no rotten wood underneath.
the filler was a red brittle material which broke out easily, should I replace this with evomastic or leave the gap clear ?

keith66
11-03-2016, 06:02 PM
The seam you are talking about is the garboard seam, It would normally be caulked. As she is bone dry i would rake it out carefully blow or vac out all the dust, then paint the seam with primer & roll a strand or two of cotton into it. It doesnt have to be hammered in as she will swell up a lot when she gets wet. Paint again with primer & top of with evomastic. Any excess will squeeze out.
In the old days we would use Red lead putty over caulking & i would not be surprised if this is the red brittle material you have taken out. Walkers would have used this for sure. If the boat is dry sailed this will fail quite quickly.
I would still use it if the boat is in the water all the time.

Mgjohn
11-13-2016, 09:16 AM
During my paint stripping I've come across an area about a foot long that was filled, on removing the filler I found the wood was completely rotten along the nail line, Can just this part of the board be replaced or would the whole board need to come out ?
https://flic.kr/p/NGUtE7

Peerie Maa
11-13-2016, 09:46 AM
It is possible to scarf a piece in, I have replaced a crippled land on Peerrie Maa that way.
Use at least a 1:2 scarf on the long side, 1:6 at the ends, and splay the scarfs so the the board is shorter at the inner gluing line. That makes fitting it easier. You may find it easier to pre-bend the new piece with steam or heat off the boat, especially if there is twist in the plank. Epoxy is a slippery glue, so pre-bending and drilling pilot holes when you dry fit will make the glue up easier as it will be impossible to clamp. Use cauls, drilled right through for two or three screws to clamp the sarfs, filling the screw holes with clinker nails and rooves when the glue has set up.

Mgjohn
11-13-2016, 11:51 AM
Thanks, Do you have any ideas as to where I could buy suitable mahogany boards online.

Peerie Maa
11-13-2016, 02:15 PM
There are good easier to source timbers other than mahogany.
Robbins used to be the go to supplier for boat building timber.

http://www.robbins.co.uk/marine/hardwood_home.asp Consider their iroko.

Mgjohn
11-17-2016, 04:51 PM
Thanks, I contacted Robbins and they were helpful but shipping costs are very high, does anyone know of a timber merchant specialising in boat building timber in the Essex area ?

Peerie Maa
11-17-2016, 05:32 PM
Google hardwood suppliers in Essex and ask for sapele.

keith66
11-17-2016, 07:00 PM
Sod that you will need a mortgage! How much do you need? What sizes? a scrap dealer mate of mine has a barn with a goodly supply of timber in it, Good mahogany some pitch pine etc.

Mgjohn
11-21-2016, 12:02 PM
I only need a couple of lenghs of mahogany about 1.5m long x 100mm wide x 8mm thick and a length of oak 1 meter long x 70mm wide x 20mm thick. Unfortunately I don't have any facilities to cut timber down other than a power plane.

Mgjohn
11-24-2016, 06:18 AM
I've been sanding the keel and although the main front and aft sections are very sound the 2 long centre section rails each side of the centre board box are in poor condition with lots of old filled holes and some rot where the oak meets the centre board box. I'm obviously worried that if I don't sort this out it will leak around the centre board case.
Could anyone advise if can I cut these 2 rails out and scarf in 2 new pieces of oak without compromising the strength of the keel or would the whole keel need to be replaced. Thanks very

Peerie Maa
11-24-2016, 06:49 AM
A well fitted 1:12 scarf using good glue, epoxy or resorcinol will be just as strong as solid wood. Think about how you will clamp the scarfs before you cut.
Is the keel separate from the hog, or is it one piece with the rebate for fastening the garboard cut from the solid?

Mgjohn
11-24-2016, 07:20 AM
The keel is separate from the hog and looks like it went on last during the building, I cut through some of the nails attaching it to the hog at the rear but it's very well fixed with screws along the 2 rails which I assume go into the centre board case ? If I force it it looks like it will just break along one or both of the rails.
clamping could be a problem, could I use screws until the glue sets and fill the holes afterwards ?
should I bed the new rails in with something before I fix them ?

Peerie Maa
11-24-2016, 07:26 AM
^ Just use silicon bronze screws through into the hog and leave them in. I would bed the keel in old thick varnish. You are probably correct about screws up into the CB case logs. Back out all fastenings before you remove the two strips, then you will know what you have got to deal with. Make sure that everything is well supported, so that she does not change shape.

Mgjohn
01-02-2017, 09:08 AM
Could anyone recommend a good bit not too expensive primer and topcoat for use below the waterline please

Peerie Maa
01-02-2017, 05:19 PM
Could anyone recommend a good bit not too expensive primer and topcoat for use below the waterline please

I like International Universal Clear Primer and this range of marine paint. https://www.teamac.co.uk/

Mgjohn
01-11-2017, 12:22 PM
When I removed the bilge runners they were screwed and masticed to the hull boards, should I replace them like this or try and rivet them through the ribs ?
mant thanks

Peerie Maa
01-11-2017, 01:21 PM
When I removed the bilge runners they were screwed and masticed to the hull boards, should I replace them like this or try and rivet them through the ribs ?
mant thanks

I would complete the bottom paint. Then screw them on, bedded as you say in mastic. That way there will be less damage should one be knocked off in a rough grounding.

Mgjohn
02-05-2017, 10:55 AM
I'm making good progress with the refastening which is pulling the boards together nice and tight but some of the nail heads have sunk a bit, what should I use to fill the nail holes ? I'm tempted to use epoxy as it's below the water line and going to be painted over, as usual any suggestions or advice welcomed.
many thanks