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View Full Version : Are movie sequels ever as good as, or better, than the original?



Norman Bernstein
10-07-2016, 09:44 AM
I noticed today that filming of 'Blade Runner 2049' has commenced... and I fear for the reputation of an iconic movie.

Many people consider 'Blade Runner' to be the finest science fiction film ever made... and I heartily agree. IMHO, good science fiction is a vehicle for a morality tale, and in the case of 'Blade Runner', the tale is about the meaning of being human.

The sequel will star Harrison Ford, and is being directed by Ridley Scott... so it's got the genes for a good movie... but I wonder.

More generally, I find sequels to rarely ever be as good as the original. 'Aliens II' came close... but the subsequent films were crap.

Regarding remakes: generally, I think those stink, as well. The original 'True Grit' was a classic picture, and although Jeff Bridges did a great job in the sequel, the picture itself struck me as unnecessary, and certainly NOT as good as the original. Similarly, the original 'Manchurian Candidate' was an outstanding picture... the remake, with Denzel Washington, was dreadfully bad.

In rare occasions, a remake CAN be better than the original. the 1951 version of 'A Christmas Carol', with Alastair Simm, was far better than the early 1930's original... but I think that just reflected the advances in cinematography in the intervening years, more than anything else. Subsequent TV remakes have all been pretty terrible.

In another case, sometimes, the sequel can explore a story line in a way that the original could not. The 1940's Bogart picture 'The Big Sleep' was a fabulous film noir, one of his best, but the subject matter of the original Raymond Chandler novel could not be explored at that time. A remake, in 1975, starring Robert Mitchum, was able to more explicitly deal with the novel's plot, and was a pretty good picture, in it's own right.

Any others you can think of?

ccmanuals
10-07-2016, 09:49 AM
The remake of Cape Fear was a good one.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-07-2016, 09:50 AM
I think "The Godfather, Part 2" is technically a better film than "The Godfather" was, but frankly they are both excellent and the sequel makes no sense without the first film

Adding some British films to the pile:

The recent remake of "Swallows and Amazons" is rubbish; the 1974 film is a little gem.

The recent remake of "Far From the Madding Crowd" likewise.

Norman Bernstein
10-07-2016, 09:53 AM
I think "The Godfather, Part 2" is technically a better film than "The Godfather" was, but frankly they are both excellent and the sequel makes no sense without the first film


Good point. I also agree that 'Part 2' was a better film, in many ways. As I recall, didn't they do an edited combination of the two films? It's been years since I watched either one.

There's probably no better example than the Star Wars 'nonology' (nine films, ultimately). The first was innovative, but only in the sense that it borrowed heavily from movie tropes from the distant past... regardless, the first three films were fun. The NEXT three films, IMHO, were dreadful... and the seventh, which is now getting heavy rotation on cable, is the worst of all.

Keith Wilson
10-07-2016, 09:56 AM
On a small scale, Toy Story 3 was by a considerable margin the best of them. But do you mean a remake, or a sequel? Not the same thing.

Norman Bernstein
10-07-2016, 10:00 AM
On a small scale, Toy Story 3 was by a considerable margin the best of them. But do you mean a remake, or a sequel? Not the same thing.

Well, I was talking about both, I guess... should have been reflected in the thread title.

JimD
10-07-2016, 10:06 AM
John Cleese once said sequels should only be made of really bad movies, thereby improving the chances of the sequels being better than the originals.

WoodyHuscarl
10-07-2016, 10:23 AM
I liked The Empire Strikes Back better than its predecessor.

Aliens gave me nightmares, Alien did not. I first saw Aliens while a young PFC or SP4 stationed in Fulda with the 11th Cav. The camaraderie and esprit de corps of the Marines struck a nerve with me. Later films in the series were so-so, but I liked Alien vs. Predator very much.

As far as remakes, The Thomas Crown Affair was excellent, at least Rene Russo was.

Cape Fear was also a good remake.

Has anyone seen the new version of The Magnificent Seven? The original was a remake itself, of Kurosawa's The Seven Samurai. Other movies have used the same basic story as a premise, but memory is not serving yet this morning.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-07-2016, 10:45 AM
For what it may be worth, I think that Seven Samurai, made in 1954, is much better than the original The Magnificent Seven , made in 1960.

(edited to make myself clear - thanks Woodyhuscarl)

WoodyHuscarl
10-07-2016, 10:56 AM
For what it may be worth, I think that Seven Samurai is much better than the original The Magnificent Seven...

I agree, and although I like A Fistful of Dollars, Yojimbo was better.

I'm glad no one has made a remake of Rashomon, although its themes have been used in many shows/movies.

Norman Bernstein
10-07-2016, 11:01 AM
It's been said that there are only a small and finite number of possible plots... and that all movies can be fit into those plots.

Keith Wilson
10-07-2016, 11:04 AM
For what it may be worth, I think that Seven Samurai is much better than the original The Magnificent Seven...Kurosawa's Seven Samurai came out in 1954; The Magnificent Seven was a 1960 remake, and not even vaguely close to the same quality.

BrianY
10-07-2016, 11:11 AM
Not a movie, but the remake of Battlestar Galactica was far superior to the original series

biga
10-07-2016, 11:19 AM
Terminator 2
Empire Strikes Back
Friday the 13th

WoodyHuscarl
10-07-2016, 11:28 AM
Kurosawa's Seven Samurai came out in 1954; The Magnificent Seven was a 1960 remake, and not even vaguely close to the same quality.

I think he meant the original Mag 7 as opposed to this year's remake, not saying that Mag 7 predated 7 Sam.

Battle Beyond the Stars, from the early 80s does not even compare.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-07-2016, 11:37 AM
I agree, and although I like A Fistful of Dollars, Yojimbo was better.

I'm glad no one has made a remake of Rashomon, although its themes have been used in many shows/movies.

I agree.

WoodyHuscarl
10-07-2016, 11:47 AM
In Re: Rashomon

There are a handful of directors who could make a good remake; but as good, or even great a remake, it could not compare to the original.

Norman Bernstein
10-07-2016, 12:03 PM
Terminator 2

I'd agree that T2 was a better movie than the original.


Empire Strikes Back

I can't agree, on that one.


Friday the 13th

Horror flicks aren't my thing... never seen it.

WoodyHuscarl
10-07-2016, 12:11 PM
Werner Herzog and Klaus Kinski, heh.

Fine, :confused: Herzog maybe.

biga
10-07-2016, 12:23 PM
I'd agree that T2 was a better movie than the original.



I can't agree, on that one.



Horror flicks aren't my thing... never seen it.


(spoiler alert? i mean the movies are 30 years old)

in the original F13th the murderer wasn't Jason. it was his mother getting revenge for her son Jason. the second movie was when the classic Jason with the hockey mask appeared as the main murdering character

Jim Bow
10-07-2016, 12:41 PM
All I know is, "Sisterhood Of The Travelling Pants III" blew chunks.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
10-07-2016, 12:48 PM
Throne of Blood

Got a long long history

Rum_Pirate
10-07-2016, 01:18 PM
Didn't they make a prequel of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid : The early days, because they couldn't make a sequel as the two died in the last scence?

Unless of course they made the last scene a 'dream' like they did with 'Bobby'?? in 'Dallas' ?

Daniel Noyes
10-07-2016, 01:25 PM
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M4c1c163a047de011d6d28f847167c251o0&w=300&h=225&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=the+empire+strikes+back&view=detailv2&&id=23AD72166F52CF6A053FA4F4FB8EA71554239297&selectedIndex=5&ccid=TBwWOgR9&simid=608000893071264803&thid=OIP.M4c1c163a047de011d6d28f847167c251o0) https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M06a64494f912b3a2972eb6dc26e45bb7H0&w=300&h=168&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=the+empire+strikes+back&view=detailv2&&id=6C94BE3CF76D4B72FDFB464BDB7F573EAFC76374&selectedIndex=71&ccid=BqZElPkS&simid=608043477668334241&thid=OIP.M06a64494f912b3a2972eb6dc26e45bb7H0)

Jim Bow
10-07-2016, 02:35 PM
Herzog did the oddest, and best, sequel. A documentary about Dieter Dengler "Little Dieter Needs TO Fly" followed by a scripted movie "Rescue Dawn"

https://youtu.be/LbATTyDCN7A

Jim Bow
10-07-2016, 02:36 PM
https://youtu.be/UNm9Tzo5rvI

biga
10-07-2016, 03:34 PM
https://youtu.be/UNm9Tzo5rvI


i saw that movie a few weeks ago. thought it was AWFUL. bale made that character SO WEIRD and uncomfortable. and throwing a guy that craps his pants every night laying on you? gross, even if true.

Sky Blue
10-07-2016, 05:28 PM
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M34caa23a642f55f8892f7e940bcfad01H0&w=300&h=168&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=before+sunrise&view=detailv2&&id=F6CA237856EFEE02CFAA8C5ACD9DEA363F370506&selectedIndex=0&ccid=NMqiOmQv&simid=608011033481645134&thid=OIP.M34caa23a642f55f8892f7e940bcfad01H0)

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M876b6f4cbfbb71c9a9f9e40b14c00cc4H0&w=300&h=198&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=before+sunset&view=detailv2&&id=9F6ECD4F8222AE1ECE7F8CC79D05CF2EFD2FF9C0&selectedIndex=1&ccid=h2tvTL%2b7&simid=608012115818120566&thid=OIP.M876b6f4cbfbb71c9a9f9e40b14c00cc4H0)

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.Meacadc69ff58a124bf8f981d53547916o0&w=307&h=171&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=before+midnight&view=detailv2&&id=5E3CFC1AF4A644535C1D4501C86D3A6C7565D38C&selectedIndex=8&ccid=6srcaf9Y&simid=608043125490255621&thid=OIP.Meacadc69ff58a124bf8f981d53547916o0)

Reynard38
10-07-2016, 05:35 PM
I preferred the remake of True Grit to the original. Thought it a more serious movie.
Also Johhny Dep's Willy Wonka over Gene Wilder's.

Michael D. Storey
10-07-2016, 05:36 PM
Young Frankenstein

Hugh Conway
10-07-2016, 05:39 PM
It's been said that there are only a small and finite number of possible plots... and that all movies can be fit into those plots.

George Lucas drew heavily on the writings of Joseph Campbell especially "The Hero of a Thousand Faces" when creating Star Wars.

switters
10-07-2016, 05:49 PM
The remake of the Rocky Horror Picture Show comes out soon, I'm apprehensive.

Tom Montgomery
10-07-2016, 05:56 PM
IMHO the Coen brother's remake of True Grit starring Jeff Bridges, Hailee Steinfeld, Matt Damon, Josh Brolin and Barry Pepper is vastly superior to the original starring John Wayne, Kim Darby, Glen Campbell, Jeff Corey and Robert Duvall.

PhaseLockedLoop
10-07-2016, 05:59 PM
Young Frankenstein

Funny!

Reynard38
10-07-2016, 06:05 PM
IMHO the Coen brother's remake of True Grit starring Jeff Bridges, Hailee Steinfeld, Matt Damon, Josh Brolin and Barry Pepper is vastly superior to the original starring John Wayne, Kim Darby, Glen Campbell, Jeff Corey and Robert Duvall.

Yes. Much darker and more realistic. Likely more representative of the era.

Sky Blue
10-07-2016, 06:12 PM
https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M9ea5e2520491fc1752acfe388f831a3eo0&w=303&h=165&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.1

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M096cb5742fb20d3473af3a80c40493f7o0&w=300&h=199&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=solaris+clooney&view=detailv2&&id=F557770F704A1C47EC97CDD2E82F8D4029455958&selectedIndex=5&ccid=CWy1dC%2by&simid=608032723072518767&thid=OIP.M096cb5742fb20d3473af3a80c40493f7o0)

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M185af64e4961cf321d767a74e3264467o0&w=300&h=197&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=solaris+clooney&view=detailv2&&id=E24B0DE25ED73BECD7DF9C0A61F989C5BDC620EB&selectedIndex=9&ccid=GFr2Tklh&simid=607987930865928996&thid=OIP.M185af64e4961cf321d767a74e3264467o0)

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M7c309d261870c79e727ccb701f05dc4ao0&w=300&h=168&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=solaris+clooney&view=detailv2&&id=6D1D63D978654EC6F7C5219931BC4B1ACDBDC766&selectedIndex=17&ccid=fDCdJhhw&simid=608052844986236982&thid=OIP.M7c309d261870c79e727ccb701f05dc4ao0)

Chip-skiff
10-07-2016, 06:19 PM
Some remakes (as distinct from sequels that carry on the original story) compare well with the original.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1e/Sabrina_1954_film_poster.jpg/215px-Sabrina_1954_film_poster.jpg

Hard to beat that cast, but I do love Julia Ormond in the remake.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6f/Sabrina_movie.jpg

Chip-skiff
10-07-2016, 06:25 PM
On the other hand, the original film, The Philadelphia Story, 1940, was far better than the musical remake, High Society, 1956, despite an excellent cast.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/The-Philadelphia-Story-%281940%29.jpg/220px-The-Philadelphia-Story-%281940%29.jpg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/High_society1956_poster.jpg

CWSmith
10-09-2016, 12:30 AM
I'm watching Predator 2. Boy, is it ever NOT as good as the original!