A new gudgeon cast for the old Waione.

[John B]

I'm really pleased so far. The old one could be 50 years old.. could be 98 years old but she took a knock when we were coming out onto the hard.Thems the breaks on a cradle/tractor haul on an exposed ramp I suppose.There's a hairline crack from one of the screw holes plus evidence of some electrolytic action... a bit of pink so its time to be replaced.Plus , the last couple of years seemed to be the anectdote of the failed rudder from various sources. So that ain't happening to me if I can help it.
The old one just removed
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid188/pa014b8176dad0146c1155df59dcaea69/f220822c.jpg
right to left,the old one, the MDF pattern I made in a hour or two and the newly cast replacement.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/p12557b9ed7b0e6c0ea7bf79edc226a65/f2038d66.jpg

[ 10-05-2005, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John B]

dry fit
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/pcecccd3992b575273003be2d055c230d/f2037c9d.jpg
she's off to get bored now. 36 mm is a bit out of my league.

The foundry was just like a treasure trove of marine patterns and when I took the pattern along , expecting to have to take it away again to cut some tapers in, I was given a one hour tour by the owner and a run down on the whole process. Best day I've had in ages .a real time warp.
They decided they could cast it as it was, and that they did.

[ 10-05-2005, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

:cool: :cool:

[Billy Bones]

That's just cool! How I (and I suspect many of us) envy you and your countrymen the ability to ring/walk in to the local tradesman and find him thriving and happy to do your job!

And a fun project to boot.

I gather the rudder travels upward a bit to allow access to the screws in the gudgeon? If so is there then a collar on the shaft or some other means whereby the rudder, once in position, is held captive there so's not to bounce out of the lower?

edited to add: Hang on, the first pic doesn't seem to show any travel on the upper gudgeon.

Mind giving us a thumbnail sketch on how you go about replacing the gudgeon, seeing as two of the four screw holes are behind the nice, closely fitting rudder blade?

[ 10-05-2005, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Billy Bones ]

[John B]

Hi Billy, actually 4 of the screws are behind the rudder . I have the mainsheet tied to the tiller/rudderpost instead of the traveller and ( after removing the top gudgeon, which captivates the whole asssembly) I just haul the whole shebang up 4 or 5 inches to expose the bottom gudgeon.6 x 3 inch silicone bronze screws hold it in a mortise. no sign of any movement.

Looks like the thing may have to be bored on a lathe to get my 36mm. Niave is me. I thought they'd do it on a big drill press/milling machine.They aren't going to buy a special drill size for one job.

[Alan D. Hyde]

A good day indeed.

A great post. :D

Thanks, John.

Alan

[Thad]

I replaced the pintle on a Concordia yawl this Spring. The owner/friend had noticed cracks in the casting above the pin that turned out to be breaks. He called the Concordia Co. and was told that they were replacing three others this year. 50yr life. The new casting came with changes in the pattern giving some more support.

[John B]

Is my terminolgy correct re the gudgeon/pintle?
when you look at a dinghy with a transom hung rudder you will see the male part either on the transom or the rudder itself. That always does my head in. I just call the female part( hopefully the part on the hull) the gudgeon and the male( pin) part the pintle.
??

[Thad]

That is correct. On the Concordia the gudgeon is a big old casting that surrounds the heel of the keel and is riveted though. The pintle is on the rudder and was strapped up the sides along the leading edge. The new casting required morticing further along the lower edge of the rudder.

[Billy Bones]

Thanks, John. Now you mention it I do see the holes for the upper.

As I, too, understand it, the PINtle always has the pin, wherever it is mounted. The various hardware catalogs seem to indicate the same.

[John B]

o yeah.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid190/pc13a6748488878a9e15e0062e45cdfac/f1e6574b.jpg
looks like I have a nice little weekend job to do.
They bored it on a lathe. I gave it a quick linish and polish to take the edges off. I don't see why I should take any more meat off it.

Pleased? pleased as a man can be. smile.gif

[AlanL]

Hmm, can't another classic losing its rudder on its mooring.

Who did the casting and boring for you?

Alan

[John B]

Montrose Foundry did both Alan. Great place.
the other alternative was at silverdale or porana rd on the shore. This one is close to work for me and best fun.

[AlanL]

Just got home from a lovely day in the Rakino Channel.

Sounds like an interesting place, I will have to try them out next time I want something done. Previously I have used Millar Patterson. Amazingly ancient machinery for doing virtually all things metal.

Alan

[Hwyl]

I've always called the male part the Gudgeon. I thought I was a voice in the wilderness, but when buying on I talked to the mail order person, she told me there were lots of people with my affliction.

In British speak the pin that joins the con rod to the piston is called the gudgeon. Also the gudgeon is a long thin (male member like) fish.

It's one of my few curmudgeonly choices.

Nice pattern John, took some bravery.

[Art Read]

...But pintles have pins! ;)

[Hwyl]

My opinions not budgin'
Yes call me a curmudgeon
if it's got a long pin
in the pintle stick it in
because surely it's a gudgeon

[John B]

:D I know I'm confused.

I have to report that it fits. I'm desperately waiting/looking for a problem... I think I'll pack one side with a bit of paper or two.. I know.. I'll take my feeler guages down there this AM and pretend :D .

[Stiletto]

Hwyl, I knew the small end of a conrod was called the gudgeon, but we haved always called the piston pin the gudgeon pin. I'm thoroughly confused. :confused:

[Hwyl]

Probably me that's confused. Comes from learning to repair engines in Welsh.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

From Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Gudgeon)
</font> A metal pivot or journal at the end of a shaft or an axle, around which a wheel or other device turns. </font> The socket of a hinge into which a pin fits. </font> A metal pin that joins two pieces of stone. </font> Nautical. The socket for the pintle of a rudder. </font>I learned to repair engines in scottish - where the "gudgeon pin" is the steel pin which connects the "small end" of the con-rod to the piston. I have seen this referred to as the "wrist-pin".

Next Week; trunnions and how to avoid them.

[ 10-15-2005, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: P.I. Stazzer-Newt ]

[Stiletto]

P I stazzernewt, my understanding is the same as yours, re the gudgeon pin.
Is it called the gudgeon for short, or the gudgeon pin because it rides in the gudgeon?

From your dictionary .com definition it seems a fairly generic term for either the male or female component. The Oxford reference dictionary gives it the same amount of leeway. I'll accept that. :rolleyes:

I look forward to your post on trunnions. smile.gif

[John B]

It never pays to count chickens does it. The permanent fit took longer to set up than I anticipated. I had it all set , bedded and screwed in tight and the clearances altered making the post scuff. An intense hour later, missing the obvious, I ended up packing it by 1 mm with a copper shim. 1MM!perhaps 1.5 :rolleyes: Whatever the copper sheet is that I had to hand.
The end result is great though, she's never been as light. Not quite the Olin Stephens standard, but its good, real good. I feel like I have some progress.