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Dave Hadfield
09-30-2016, 06:31 PM
Is that a new verb? It certainly describes my last 2 summers.

I got this sponsorship: "Just take the Lysander, put our name on it, and explain what we do at every airshow and fly-in you can possibly get to." It has been a marvelous opportunity, and a complete privilege.

So I stole the aeroplane from Vintage Wings of Canada, in Ottawa, moved it to SW Ontario where most of the air events take place, stashed it in a local hangar, and flogged it all season -- 2015 and '16.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vjQ5WcVmwk

Dave

The Bigfella
09-30-2016, 06:40 PM
Great video. Thanks Dave

Canoeyawl
09-30-2016, 07:24 PM
How cool is that!
I watched a short movie on the restoration of that one, and it was amazing what they went through to bring it back...

Show us some pics

skuthorp
09-30-2016, 07:29 PM
Thanks Dave, I knew one of those agents as a young man.

Gerarddm
09-30-2016, 07:38 PM
Very good. Thanks for that, Dave.

Paul Pless
09-30-2016, 07:39 PM
tres cool

Willin'
09-30-2016, 07:53 PM
Not exactly a vintage space station, but pretty alright. ;)

ron ll
09-30-2016, 08:31 PM
Very cool. Having just read your brother's book, it makes me realize that must have been a pretty interesting farm you guys grew up on.

gilberj
09-30-2016, 09:16 PM
Tooo Coooool. What kind of fertilizer do you use to grow pilots?

Dave Hadfield
09-30-2016, 10:44 PM
Thanks Dave, I knew one of those agents as a young man.

Interesting connection -- what was his name? Perhaps he's mentioned in this book: https://www.amazon.com/We-Landed-Moonlight-Landings-1940-1944/dp/0947554750

Thanks all, for your kind comments -- it's been a unique experience; caring for and servicing the machine as well as flying it.

Fertilizer? Oh yes, it was a working farm (still is) and we were intimately familiar with numerous varieties of organic enrichment -- daily.

Dave

C. Ross
09-30-2016, 11:41 PM
Wow! Thank you Dave.

john welsford
10-01-2016, 12:01 AM
Please, a short rundown on what its like to fly. I imagine that its unlike anything else on the planet.


John Welsford

WX
10-01-2016, 12:17 AM
Please, a short rundown on what its like to fly. I imagine that its unlike anything else on the planet.


John Welsford
I second that.

Canoeyawl
10-01-2016, 11:09 AM
http://www.ultimaterestorations.com/the-lysander/

Dave Hadfield
10-01-2016, 11:18 AM
Well, it's an aeroplane that in 1935 was innovative to the point of being experimental. That gave it some quirks. These were not worked out because of the need to re-arm shortly after.

The flaps and slats deploy entirely on their own. You can't extend them, or retract them, or lock them in or out. They are governed by angle-of-attack: as the A of A increases, the slats are drawn "up", but through some clever gearing they move forward on small rails. These slats are divided in 2 sections. The outer ones are completely free-floating. The inner ones drive the flaps down at the same time, and are cross-linked to the ones on the other side so you don't get an assymetric condition. They move gradually, not in increments.

This is weird. On approach if you are a bit low and lift the nose, the AofA increases, the devices deploy more, the drag increases and you slow down and drop like a stone. And of course if you lower the nose they retract, the airspeed increases, and you land long. In action its strange -- you have to treat the nose of the aircraft like a flap lever -- up for extend, down to retract.

Next, the elevator isn't big enough to control the pitch of the aircraft at either end of its envelope. If the trim is in the middle, and you carry some power on approach, when the time comes to flare and you chop the power, the nose will drop, even if the stick is buried in your gut. Ouch. So the horizontal stabilizer can be pivoted as a trim-device, via a big round wheel to the left of the pilot's seat. The trim has to be at the aft end to be able to flare for landing, power off. So on approach, you hold the stick forward as you wind the trim back, pre-setting it for that flare, pushing with considerable force. And if you go around and use full power it would rear up and go for the moon, even if you jammed the stick into the instrument panel. So, you do a go-around in 3 stages: power-trim, more power-trim, climb power-trim. Plus, on approach, the effectiveness of the elevator is totally dependent on the airflow moving across it, so every time you change the power setting the thing is more, or less, powerful, and thus the nose goes up or down without you moving the stick. (It's best to leave the power alone until flare.) Sometimes I treat it like a biplane and sideslip on approach rather than mess with the power and trim.

And, if you want to fly slow for a short-field landing, 60 mph or so, you can only do it by hanging on the prop a bit, power up, to give you the elevator effectiveness you need. And if the engine quits, you would need 1000' to wind the trim forward (takes 15 seconds) and get the thing gliding again with some speed, which would take altitude you don't have. Result: pancake. So we approach at 85 mph or so. But if you do take the risk, and try for a short field landing, it rolls about 400 feet or so on grass. And takeoff is again extraordinary -- I don't go to full power; I use about 2 1/2 lbs of boost out of the 4 1/4 available. Even at that it lofts into the air after about 300 ft of roll, 3 point. (You don't push the tail up as you roll because the slats would retract.) In fact during crosswind takeoffs I take up an angle of about 30 degrees to the runway, into wind, and am always airborne before I reach the other side.

Other stuff: it has a free-castering tailwheel. No tailwheel steering. And lousy brakes that work off a squeeze-grip lever on the stick's spade-grip. This system works fine on the Spit and Hurricane and even the Lancaster, but is fragile and troublesome on the Lysander. If the rudder pedals are in the middle, you're supposed to get even braking (you rarely do). If the rudder bar is displaced to one side or the other, you get assymetric braking. This is controlled by a brake diverter valve which ports compressed air into either of the brake lines, which inflates a bladder which presses pads up into the brake drums. In short, everything has to be adjusted perfectly for this to work properly, and it never is. So, you don't use brakes to slow down after touchdown. You just use them as taxi aids.

The engine is very rare (Bristol Mercury XX) and parts are made of unobtanium. (We'd like to machine new cylinder barrels, but the Brits won't release the dimensioned drawings of the cylinders.) And recently the CWH aeroplane suffered a catastrophic engine failure through no part of the pilot or maintenance, and was damaged in a forced landing. However the thing starts very well and has performed quite robustly for me. I like it. But only about 2 places in the world (they're in the UK) can do the zero-time overhauls, and the cost is enormous: much more than a Merlin. Which means we have to charge a lot of money for a passenger ride.

In the cockpit the visibility is amazing, and same for the back seat. But it's hot! The oil plumbing to the 2 coolers is on your side of the firewall and on a hot summer day you roast in your seat. You can fly with the side-windows open, but there is strong buffeting in the cockpit, worse than in our Hurricane IV.

Roll rate is adequate although the forces are a bit heavy. Very close to a DC-9. It's light in pitch and super light in yaw. The rudder is very effective and works in a crosswind landing down to jogging speed. In fact you can land in this aircraft in conditions you can't taxi in.

It seems to excel as a joyride machine, hopping over the fields at a few hundred feet, counting the cows and admiring the crops, waving to the sunbathers on the beaches. My passengers seem to enjoy that more than lazy-8s and chandelles and the like.

It burns about 27 imp gal an hour the way I fly it, and about 2 quarts of oil.

I've got about 70 hours in it now, and I'm starting to learn a thing or two. So far, very rewarding and challenging and fun.

Dave

skaraborgcraft
10-01-2016, 11:24 AM
Not at all dissapointed, but my first thought....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0MOa2xMqPdw/T-DbKUcXLWI/AAAAAAAAAgU/BTCK8jTkuc8/s320/lysander.jpg

Yours is better looking.....

Dave Hadfield
10-01-2016, 11:26 AM
That's a cool video! I hadn't seen it before. Thanks!

http://www.ultimaterestorations.com/the-lysander/

Dave Hadfield
10-01-2016, 11:27 AM
Not at all dissapointed, but my first thought....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0MOa2xMqPdw/T-DbKUcXLWI/AAAAAAAAAgU/BTCK8jTkuc8/s320/lysander.jpg

Yours is better looking.....


... I don't know... it has a certain hard-chine, cereal-box charm...

Dave

Canoeyawl
10-01-2016, 11:37 AM
That's a cool video! I hadn't seen it before. Thanks!

http://www.ultimaterestorations.com/the-lysander/

I sat through that as if I was glued to my seat.
Some of the construction details were very interesting to me, and finding that engine? Sheese!

Dave Hadfield
10-01-2016, 11:43 AM
http://gusair.com/htdocs/assets/images/Eden16-8f.jpg

http://gusair.com/htdocs/assets/images/Eden16-11b.jpg

https://s20.postimg.org/r3oz91vrx/Lys_with_grey_cloud.jpg

Dave Hadfield
10-01-2016, 11:47 AM
http://gusair.com/htdocs/assets/images/Rally16-2cc.jpg

https://s20.postimg.org/ah85lxj6l/Lys_lifting_off_B_Craig.jpg

https://s20.postimg.org/fdbsdmjbx/Lys_fly_away_B_Craig.jpg

Old Dryfoot
10-01-2016, 11:50 AM
Beautiful.

Rum_Pirate
10-01-2016, 11:51 AM
Great.

More please.

Dave Hadfield
10-01-2016, 11:58 AM
https://s20.postimg.org/ffuxei6n1/WIoct_nov15cover.jpg

That was the only time in 10 years of flying at VWoC that I was ever in a formation flight involving the same type of aircraft -- in Lysanders, of all things...

https://s20.postimg.org/hygmf6sd9/doug_fisher2.jpg

https://s20.postimg.org/fv677iskd/doug_fisher.jpg

skaraborgcraft
10-01-2016, 01:36 PM
Just a thought that popped in my head, do you wear a chute when you fly those? Like the cereal box analogy!

Phil Y
10-01-2016, 05:04 PM
I know nothing about flying, but the description sounds like it would take a bit of getting used to! Im sure there was a reason for the flappy things having a mind of their own.

Dave Hadfield
10-02-2016, 10:04 AM
Chute? Yes, the cockpit seat is just a tin shell. It needs the chute to supply a cushion, and raise the pilot's eyeballs to the correct view-height.

In these rare old valuable machines, if the engine quits you would not jump, you'd do your best to make an emergency landing. Unless it catches fire -- at which point, "I'm outta here".

Norman Bernstein
10-02-2016, 10:07 AM
Dave,

In these old restored aircraft, I'm wondering about just what is original, what is reconstructed LIKE the original, and what is really new technology.

I'm sure that the navcom gear would be contemporary.... but what about the engine... is it exactly what was originally used? Or is it merely an approximation, possibly quite different from what the original design was powered with... and is there any modern electronics that replace the original gauges and indicators?

C. Ross
10-02-2016, 10:21 AM
Outstanding thread. I want a ride!

Dave Hadfield
10-02-2016, 11:53 AM
Outstanding thread. I want a ride!

C.R. -- you can ride in it. You can ride in any of the aircraft in the Charity that have 2 seats. It's expensive. We are forced to amortize the cost of engine overhauls. But it is the only Lysander in the world giving rides. And you can also come up with a friend and put them in another aircraft (Harvard/T-6?) and fly in formation -- sharing the experience.

At the risk of promotion, but since you asked and since it's a charity, if you go on the website https://www.vintagewingsmembers.ca/flightOps.cfm you can see what it takes to get a ride. BTW -- The P-40 is the only dual-control prop fighter in Canada, and the US dollar exchange rate makes the trip much more economical.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/News%20Stories%20K/MemberFormationExperiences/RideStory10.jpg

Notice where the sky is...


http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/News%20Stories%20K/MemberFormationExperiences/RideStory01.jpg


Dave

Dave Hadfield
10-02-2016, 12:50 PM
Dave,

In these old restored aircraft, I'm wondering about just what is original, what is reconstructed LIKE the original, and what is really new technology.

I'm sure that the navcom gear would be contemporary.... but what about the engine... is it exactly what was originally used? Or is it merely an approximation, possibly quite different from what the original design was powered with... and is there any modern electronics that replace the original gauges and indicators?

Norm, good question, and as you suspect there are many WWII aircraft out there that are like great-granddad's axe (it's had 3 new heads and 8 new handles but it's still his old axe). The problem is that aluminum corrodes over time, even duralumin. Thus you can drag a fighter out of a swamp, and restore it, but all the sheet-metal has to be replaced, and new engine and prop etc. What can be re-used sometimes are the smaller bits (cockpit fittings and non-structural things) and the large castings and forgings. Some fighters are so valuable and iconic that they are more or less built around a data-plate.

But this Lysander was bought as an intact aeroplane from Crown Assets Dispersal in about 1949 by a Saskatchewan farmer. He took the wings off and put it in a shed and left it alone. Later, in the 1990s, he tried to get it going, but had trouble running the engine, so put it back in the shed. We bought it in 2007. So, this one was kept indoors in a dry climate by someone who was fascinated by the aircraft of that period. He actually had several airframes, I believe.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/News%20Stories%20K/Flying%20The%20Westland%20Lysander/LizziePR07.jpg

So most of its structure is original. We took it completely apart. Any rust was cut out and new tubes welded in. All the woodwork suffered from glue deterioration and had to be re-glued. New fabric of course. And every system of the aircraft had to be painstakingly disassembled, cleaned, new seals and gaskets and O-rings... etc. But the big bits are original.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/ArchivedStories/NewWings47.jpg

The engine is original too. We sent it to the UK for an overhaul; same with the prop. It's the one it flew with in 1944, although sometimes cylinders get replaced. New valves, pistons, rings, pins etc, but original crank, supercharger and gearcase. It's stock.

As for instruments, nearly all the original ones are in the panel. Some we have augmented -- we have 2 oil-pressure gauges, for ex. And 2 compasses. But anything that could be re-certified is back in and works (altimeter, airspeed indicator, etc.)

http://www.hadfield.ca/VWoC/Lysander panel left side.jpg

http://www.hadfield.ca/VWoC/Lysander panel right side.jpg

We don't just want to fly the aeroplane. We want to document and preserve the body of knowledge that originally was present during its operation. So, there's no point in putting a modern engine in it. You wouldn't learn as much. But, we draw the line at adding significant risk. If a system is critically important, and the original was dubious, we replace or augment it. An example is the air pump for the brakes. The original one is engine-driven and delivers inadequate flow. We plumbed an electric one into the system -- and I'm very glad we did because it comes on all the time during ground operations in a crosswind.

And we went to a great deal of trouble finding an original 1942 Garmin GPS! ;)

Dave

K225
10-03-2016, 05:50 PM
Hi Dave, Surprised to see this posted here. Having moved on to the restoration and sailing of the Pinkie La Revenante often lurk on this site. When we were looking for a pump to be used as a back up for the pneaumatic brake system I had approached a firm in California who did the systems for the lowrider cars. They had a pump which provided the pressures needed for the braking system. We joked about rigging up a suspension system to get Lizzie bouncing like those lowriders! Those of us on the restoration crew were provided with copies of the Ultimate Restoration show on Lizzie if you would like to see it some time I have a copy if they don't have one at the hangar. It has seen limited broadcast on PBS stations in the States as I understand it, a friend recently watched it while on a Florida vacation. I have seen little comment on the significance of the prewar RCAF colour scheme, 416 was the first Canadian built Lysander which is why this scheme was chosen. Mike I think would have preferred a wartime camouflage but he let the restoration team run with it. Maybe you could talk the sponsors into a repaint?
Steve McKenzie

John B
10-03-2016, 07:25 PM
Superb thread. Thanks Dave.