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Norman Bernstein
09-22-2016, 08:13 AM
...since a number of folks here think that the national debt is an existential crisis......


“A new analysis from a nonpartisan group finds that Donald Trump’s latest tax proposals would increase the federal debt by $5.3 trillion over the next decade, compared with $200 billion if Hillary Clinton’s ideas were enacted,” the AP (http://bigstory.ap.org/516c98c4b9274644a6b3be1a370977d0) reports.

TomF
09-22-2016, 08:50 AM
Waiting for the "bob and weave."

Norman Bernstein
09-22-2016, 08:52 AM
Waiting for the "bob and weave."

It's coming. As sure as night follows day.

RonW
09-22-2016, 09:05 AM
Waiting for the "bob and weave."

I'm waiting for a dose of common sense and reality to set in with the liberal left.........but it doesn't seem to have a chance of sinking in.......

All the leading experts on the business channels say the same thing. If Trump wins the markets go up, if hillary wins the market goes down.....

And norm's none link statement of a nonpartisan group, really, I have never seen anything from norm that isn't partisan.
And is this so called nonpartisan group market experts?

Norman Bernstein
09-22-2016, 09:11 AM
All the leading experts on the business channels say the same thing.

Really? WHAT channels? What 'leading experts'? I ask only because I've heard the opposite, myself.... but I guess you don't listen to points of view that conflict with your ideology.


If Trump wins the markets go up, if hillary wins the market goes down.....

I get it... SOMETIMES, you rant about the debt and deficit, as if it's an existential crisis... but in light of THIS report, it's now 'the market' that matters... you've got a very flexible perspective, don't ya?


And norm's none link statement of a nonpartisan group, really, I have never seen anything from norm that isn't partisan.
And is this so called nonpartisan group market experts?

This organization is about as non-partisan as ANY similar organization could possibly be... read up on it: the board of directors consists of people from both Republican and Democratic administrations, with a mix of political affiliations, ALL of whom have expertise in federal budget issues....

...but this won't make any difference to you, because the only credible voices YOU listen to are the ones who are partisan on your side.


DENVER (AP) — A new analysis from a nonpartisan group finds that Donald Trump's latest tax proposals would increase the federal debt by $5.3 trillion over the next decade, compared with $200 billion if Hillary Clinton's ideas were enacted.

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget looked at Trump's newly revised tax plan as well as other proposals. However, it says its analysis can't be certain of the actual size of Trump's tax plan because his campaign won't spell out how it will treat certain businesses' tax liabilities. The committee took a "mid-range guess" between two estimates provided by the nonpartisan Tax Foundation.

When Trump introduced his economic plan last week, he vowed that his tax cuts would be paid for partly by triggering record economic growth. The committee was skeptical and presumed these steps would generate no new growth. Several economists have projected that Trump's economic agenda — especially his restrictions on immigration and trade — would slow economic growth and possibly cause a recession.

Trump has also proposed a sharp increase in spending on the military and veterans. He has proposed some spending cuts, but the committee calculated they wouldn't come close to balancing the budget.

Just what we need: another recession.

RonW
09-22-2016, 09:26 AM
Norman bernstein says -
Just what we need: another recession.

This seems to be the only part of your above post that is worth taking the time to respond to, the rest of it is pure nonsense...putting it politically correctly.....

Go through your T.V. stations and find the business channels with the markets......you know how to do that....

We have been in a recession since fall of 2007.....and no kind of democratic fluff can change the facts, The dow jones was almost 15k in the summer of 07 the high and lows and wild swings
are due to instability.....and QE's, low interest rates (due to economical condition)

And the national debt is just like a personal credit card, you have to make payments on it....


.and is the future reduction in revenues due to payments of previous expenditures justifiable ?

Gerarddm
09-22-2016, 09:30 AM
Republican economic orthodoxy has been toxic to Americans' well being since Hoover, at least.

Cathargo delenda est. ​See my signature.

Norman Bernstein
09-22-2016, 09:45 AM
We have been in a recession since fall of 2007.....and no kind of democratic fluff can change the facts, The dow jones was almost 15k in the summer of 07.....

This is a joke....right?

Did you miss the part about the recession of 2008, during Bush's term in office, before Obama took office, and the drop in the market that lost TRILLIONS of dollars of equity? Have you missed the bull market since January 2009 which has returned nearly 15% annually since Obama has been in office? Have you missed the dramatic reduction in unemployment over the past 8 years?

Oh, wait a minute... that's because Donald Trump says that the real unemployment rate is 19%... or didn't he later say it was 25%? And then even later, 33%? Or his highest pronouncement, 42%? Can you tell us which of those numbers is correct? :):)



.and is the future reduction in revenues due to payments of previous expenditures justifiable ?
Ask Donald Trump, if $5.3 TRILLION dollars of additional debt is justifiable.

RonW
09-22-2016, 09:54 AM
You're rambling non coherently norm, reread post # 6 where I plainly stated the recession began in the fall of 07, Obama never took office till jan 20 of 09 and by that time the market was in the 9k range well on the way to somewhat of recovery from the lows of the mid 6k range.......

You are not discussing on your thread or my thread the national debt as to the pros and cons, which is all cons on the national debt, but instead is trying to convince, (and I don't know who ) that the markets will fail with trump and all will be rosey with billary.

Some crack pot obviously non financial partisan group wants to make a cockeyed statement and you want to run with it as if it is the gospel according to the left.....

RonW
09-22-2016, 10:01 AM
Norma, from post #5..A new analysis from a nonpartisan group finds that Donald Trump's latest tax proposals would increase the federal debt by $5.3 trillion over the next decade,



P.S. you are screaming that Trump's economic's will add $5.3 trillion to the national debt over the next 10 years, and you are what upset ?

So why in the hell ain't you upset over Obama adding $10 trillion over only 8 years..?

https://goldswitzerland.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Screen-Shot-2016-09-08-at-19.59.53.png

RonW
09-22-2016, 10:27 AM
News flash...Donald Trump will reduce deficit spending by 56% over Obama....


so says norm bernstein.......a reduction of $10 tril over 8 years all the way down to $5.3 tril over 10 years.......that's 56% .

TomF
09-22-2016, 10:30 AM
And he ain't letting on how he'd do it. Except probably by making Mexicans pay.

Norman Bernstein
09-22-2016, 10:33 AM
News flash...Donald Trump will reduce deficit spending by 56% over Obama....


so says norm bernstein.......a reduction of $10 tril over 8 years all the way down to $5.3 tril over 10 years.......that's 56% .

If you're going to lie about what I said, the conversation is over. You can't even be honest in ordinary discussion, can you... where did I say ANYTHING like that? Or is the problem that you can't read?

Norman Bernstein
09-22-2016, 10:35 AM
You are not discussing on your thread or my thread the national debt as to the pros and cons, which is all cons on the national debt, but instead is trying to convince, (and I don't know who ) that the markets will fail with trump and all will be rosey with billary.

Read the OP. It'a bout a potential INCREASE in the debt, and says nothing about 'markets'... YOU brought that up.


Some crack pot obviously non financial partisan group....

Go to the website, and explain how this is a 'crackpot non financial partisan group.....

On second thought, don't bother. You don't 'do' facts.

RonW
09-22-2016, 10:43 AM
norman the libertarian says -
Read the OP. It'a bout a potential INCREASE in the debt, and says nothing about 'markets'... YOU brought that up.

Really no need in getting mad at me because Trump is having a major reduction in deficit spending.......


But why now are you concerned about the national debt at this time............the crazy tea party raised hell over it during bush jr spending spree ......are you trelling me the tpary is more responsible

fiscally then liberals are ?

Norman Bernstein
09-22-2016, 10:54 AM
Really no need in getting mad at me because Trump is having a major reduction in deficit spending.......


OK, Ron... I'll humor you for just a little while longer.

Please explain how it is you know that Trump's economic plan will result in a major reduction in deficit spending.

Cite some sources with actual data and fact, not just campaign promises. How about an analysis of his economic plan, by whoever it is you consider to be 'non partisan'? NOT pundits or right wing op-editorialists.... I'm talking about HARD DATA, not partisan blather.

So, here's your chance... a chance to defend your assertions.

RonW
09-22-2016, 11:00 AM
OK, Ron... I'll humor you for just a little while longer.

Please explain how it is you know that Trump's economic plan will result in a major reduction in deficit spending.

Cite some sources with actual data and fact, not just campaign promises. How about an analysis of his economic plan, by whoever it is you consider to be 'non partisan'? NOT pundits or right wing op-editorialists.... I'm talking about HARD DATA, not partisan blather.

So, here's your chance... a chance to defend your assertions.


Because you said so..........

You said trump will add $5.3 trillion to the national debt over the next 10 years.......see your above posts.......

We know for a fact that the Obama administration added $10 trillion dollars over only 8 years.............do the math, it is a 56% reduction.......

Norman Bernstein
09-22-2016, 11:01 AM
You said trump will add $5.3 trillion to the national debt over the next 10 years.......see your above posts.......

We know for a fact that the Obama administration added $10 trillion dollars over only 8 years.............do the math, it is a 56% reduction.......

Ohmygod.... you're insane.

George Jung
09-22-2016, 11:07 AM
Heeheehee.... Norman, tell me again - why do you engage RonW?

Some would call you a masochist.

Not me, of course. But 'others'...

Bobcat
09-22-2016, 11:09 AM
Heeheehee.... Norman, tell me again - why do you engage RonW?

Some would call you a masochist.

Not me, of course. But 'others'...

I wonder the same thing.

Too Little Time
09-22-2016, 11:22 AM
Yesterday, Clinton asked at one of her rallies: Why an I not leading by 50 points?" Then she told the people to go out and campaign for her.

I have to ask the same question. Why is she not leading by 50 points?

But questions about the debt seem strange coming from people who think the debt and deficit are not problems.

I don't care who wins. I see both of them producing rainbows and unicorns.

ccmanuals
09-22-2016, 11:27 AM
Probably because we have more folks like this in the country than anyone could imagine. It's embarrassing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFQhw3VVToQ

TomF
09-22-2016, 11:30 AM
Because like Ron, a lot of people just don't care. They know Trump is a crook, a liar and a thug, and they think that's what has made him rich. They want to be rich too, and know they won't be any more likely to get rich under Hillary than they've been all their lives 'till now. Trump looks like a lottery card.

And as ever, the Dems are amazingly unable to see that policy isn't what wins elections. Trust is what really wins elections, but in the absence of trust, marketing by winding up someone with a raw emotion will do. They'll vote for Trump for the same reason that they'll watch Honey Boo Boo over an NPR report on climate change.

Too Little Time
09-22-2016, 12:00 PM
Trust is what really wins elections, but in the absence of trust ...
There was a Democratic president for the last 8 years. 8 years during which the rich get a lot richer relative to the poor.

Clinton wants to help what she calls the middle class - those in the top 10%. (As a side note about 10% of the families have investable assets in excess of $1 million and don't really need help.)

And if Clinton fails at anything she will place the blame as Obama did on the Republicans. She will beg for another chance for the Democrats.

Trust is important. Lack of trust may not cause Clinton to lose the election. But it will not be the romp it should be.