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capefox
09-13-2016, 03:52 PM
What is the most cost-effective way to get 3 mm veneers for cold molding in the SW U.S.? I have this terrible feeling it is going to be unconscionably expensive.

DeniseO30
09-13-2016, 04:27 PM
Hardwood? My guess is to contact a mill directly or at least try

PeterSibley
09-13-2016, 06:55 PM
I can't buy 3 mm veneer where I am but my local mill shop has a power feed band resaw that can saw them out of hardwood at about 30 feet per minute. They can't adjust the fence to 3 mm but it works beautifully at 4 mm. The result is flexible and extremely even.The saw tooth mark are minimal.

Good luck.

andrewpatrol
09-13-2016, 07:31 PM
Cape fox, 'Asrainox' cut his own softwood veneers on a 14" bandsaw. Dunno how thick they were but boat was only 11' so musta been thinnish. Not sure if he ran then through a thicknesser after but if you look up his thread you may find more info.

JimConlin
09-13-2016, 09:04 PM
Edensaw offers 1/8" WRC veneers.
http://www.edensaw.com/MainSite/Store1/StoreProducts/ProductDetail/7090

asrainox
09-13-2016, 09:14 PM
Cape fox, 'Asrainox' cut his own softwood veneers on a 14" bandsaw. Dunno how thick they were but boat was only 11' so musta been thinnish. Not sure if he ran then through a thicknesser after but if you look up his thread you may find more info.

3mm, a 4mm cut, followed by a pass through a drum sander, though a thicknesser would work.

I only took off the extra 1mm to make them take the radius. The aft-reverse curve with a twist was a bear.

:)

asrainox
09-13-2016, 09:16 PM
Depending on size also, you really don't need veneers wider than 3-4 inches. A massive boat, maybe 6 inch wide veneers makes sense, but on smaller boats 3-4 inches is fine.

I used one of these blades.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/wood-slicer-resaw-bandsaw-blades.aspx

capefox
09-13-2016, 09:45 PM
This boat is 19 ft long. It specifies cedar 6mm strip planks followed by 3mm diagonal veneer. Could you cut 3mm wide strips from 1" boards? I know it would take longer to cut and install but feasible?

andrewpatrol
09-13-2016, 09:55 PM
Capefox, another guy building cold moulded you might look up is 'Bheys' his boat is 20' I think. Also 'richbeck' got some veneers somewhere, I think he's in Montana though, not sure if that's near utopia!!!!:d. His boat was 29'

DeniseO30
09-13-2016, 10:10 PM
Edensaw certainly is a choice.. Capefox you will never know if you don't ask for a quote. .

There are some sources listed on this older thread. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?17654-Source-for-sliced-cold-molding-veneers

tom151
09-13-2016, 10:26 PM
Add a 1mm shim to the fence either side of the blade?

bheys
09-13-2016, 11:39 PM
I'm not sure that there's anything "cost effective" about the cold molding technique. It certainly requires high quality clear stock. There's considerable waste involved no matter how you generate the veneers. Have your seat belt attached if and when you ask for a quote from someone like Edensaw to generate your veneers. I would imagine that you'd have to fiberglass the inside of a boat that was a strip/veneer hybrid (not very pleasant). Never the less, that method might alleviate some of the costs incurred when making the mold for an all veneer boat. Cold molding is epoxy/labor intensive. All that said, as it compares to the total cost of the boat it's hard for me to see that it makes that big a difference what ever hull construction technique you choose. The labor is free - it's a hobby.

asrainox
09-14-2016, 02:52 AM
This boat is 19 ft long. It specifies cedar 6mm strip planks followed by 3mm diagonal veneer. Could you cut 3mm wide strips from 1" boards? I know it would take longer to cut and install but feasible?

That's how i should have done mine. I did 3x 3mm. You don't need to glass it, in or out, unless you want to or is specified.

Re: 1 inch boards. I took a 6x1 rough sawn plank, so an actual 25mm x 150mm, ripped it in half to 2x72mm x 25mm (kerf loss of 4mm), stood them up the tall way, and if lucky would get 5 x 3mm slices 72mm wide from that per half.

That makes a 1m piece of 150x25 into 10 pieces of 3x72. Is a loss of 20%, and that's best case. Usually I'd get 4 slices per side, loss of about 26%.

Either way, this is tremendously cheaper than ordering but a dusty, loud, tiring and tedious job involving no joy.

asrainox
09-14-2016, 02:56 AM
In simple terms, 1m x 150mm x 25mm became max 1m x 720x3mm of hull skin. The method of ripping down was simple but boring. You don't wanna do diagonal 1 inch strips. You need to spile them and it takes time. You don't wanna spend 3x the time spoiling as they're 1 inch, not 3. Please trust me on that.

keith66
09-14-2016, 03:42 AM
Years ago i built a Pete Culler Whitehall, i cold moulded her from Western red cedar. At the time in the UK we could not get WRC veneer at all so i sawed the veneers on a Dankaert circular saw with the thinnest carbide tipped blade i could find.
It worked very well but the wastage was damn near 50% in sawdust on the floor. No way i would do it again.
Next boat i cold molded I was able to source WRC knife cut veneer from Reliance veneers in london, great company to deal with & the price was good. It wont help you, but someone this side of the pond might find them useful.

Top tip for cold moulding diagonally, cut all strips a standard width in my case it was 4" wide, glue every other strip on with 4" gap at the middle, they will close in at the ends. clean the glue off before its gone rock hard, staple the filler planks in place temporaily with a few staples then use a wooden gauge set to 4" to scribe each edge of the filler plank from the opposite edge of the glued on plank. Number them all then a quick session on the bandsaw & away you go. You might need a lick with a block plane here & there but its quick & easy!
But pulling staples? the poxiest job known to man, Loud rock music helps.

capefox
09-14-2016, 12:57 PM
It just occurred to me after reading these entries: could I cold mold using thin plywood. I noticed that 4mm meranti plywood is fairly inexpensive. Could this be used for the layers of cold molding? And then I read something about the edges of the veneers becoming visible over time -- true/false?

DeanP
09-14-2016, 03:22 PM
I have plans for a Whisstock design (055) that specifies that 3mm plywood may be used as cold molding strips. I plan to cold mold my Beg-Meil hull and am considering using 3mm plywood. I would rather use cedar, but I am too lazy to make the strips myself and have heard the cost is outrageous to buy. I would like to hear someone who has cold molded with plywood to share his or her experiences.

andrewpatrol
09-14-2016, 04:48 PM
F. Vivier larger designs cold mould with ply.

asrainox
09-14-2016, 05:38 PM
F. Vivier larger designs cold mould with ply.

I experimented with it, and costed it out for my circumstances. For me, it would have been easier but more expensive, by about 15%, but in Aus ply is expensive.

Things about ply...
1. You'll need to seal the outside with glass to stop print through.
2. It's not as strong for a given weight or thickness. Strong meaning stiff.
3. You'd wanna be very sure your ply is void less. Small ply can be hit and miss.
4. You have to pay a lot of attention to fairing after your strip plank bit, otherwise fairing will cut your face veneer.
5. It's not as flexible over compound bends while laying out.
6. Ply works best when you can vacuum bag, or on large boats where the economy catches up.

This was just my thinking, ymmv.

John Meachen
09-14-2016, 06:03 PM
Cold moulding with ply can work very well and produce a very stiff hull that needs little framing.A sealer coat of thin epoxy will reduce the likelihood of joints being visible.It is important not to use strips of ply that are too wide as this increases the chance of going through the face veneer when fairing the surface.

PeterSibley
09-14-2016, 06:05 PM
My experiment was buying a green hardwood 4 x 2, rose gum. Taking it to the joinery and asking them to resaw it. The 4 x 2 yielded 9 x 4mm veneers.

I have since bought pile of 22 x 30 gum ( and sawed some of my own tree) to 200 x 30. I chose that size so I can saw strips from it and resaw some to veneers. That size also dries reasonably quickly.

andrewpatrol
09-14-2016, 06:16 PM
I'm assuming when you say 22x30 Peter you're talking mm. What will that be for? And the yield of 9 veneers was that from the 4" ?

PeterSibley
09-14-2016, 07:02 PM
Sorry Andrew, a complete typo !:o

I meant 200 x 30 mm. I can plane them to 27 mm then saw strips off the edge at 16 x 27 m or slightly thinner. I can also resaw them on edge to get 200mm wide veneers.

capefox
09-14-2016, 09:47 PM
What wood species are suitable for the outermost veneer?

PeterSibley
09-14-2016, 09:59 PM
What wood species are suitable for the outermost veneer?

Will you be glassing over the last veneer layer ?

JimConlin
09-14-2016, 10:03 PM
The declining availablity of cedar veneers has made multi-layer cold molding as unreasonable in materials cost as it is in labor. I'd seriously consider strip composite, i.e., reasonable thickness strip planking with structural glass skins. Another benefit of the glass skin is lower maintenance needs.

See Dave Gerr's Boat Strength book to suggest scantlings.

asrainox
09-14-2016, 11:09 PM
What wood species are suitable for the outermost veneer?

If glassing, anything. It's a core, expect the glass to provide some durability. If not glassing, and a boat that won't live a pampered life indoors on a trailer, something a tad harder and more impact resistant? Mine is 3 layers of hoop pine, a wood somewhere between Wrc and Douglas fir. Similar to ayc/white cedar over there

asrainox
09-14-2016, 11:13 PM
The declining availablity of cedar veneers has made multi-layer cold molding as unreasonable in materials cost as it is in labor. I'd seriously consider strip composite, i.e., reasonable thickness strip planking with structural glass skins. Another benefit of the glass skin is lower maintenance needs.

See Dave Gerr's Boat Strength book to suggest scantlings.

I sort of agree. The molded boat should have a better stiffness to weight ratio because of the tri directional grain, but for the home builder, i don't know the effort is worth it vs strip plank. As i heard once building mine - in essence, i just strip planked 3 hulls to make one.

If i built mine again i would mold it. Strip plank, glass. Done in 1/4 the time.

asrainox
09-14-2016, 11:15 PM
May i ask the design?

capefox
09-14-2016, 11:36 PM
The designer enthusiastically advocates 6mm cedar stripl plank followed by 3mm diagonal veneer, but concedes 11mm cedar strip covered by 14 oz biax would be fine. I imagine it would be a good idea to laminate 2.5 oz cloth over the biax at the same time to get a smooth finish.

Pitsligo
09-14-2016, 11:39 PM
Edensaw offers 1/8" WRC veneers.

Edensaw will cut veneers of whatever you like, I think. They cut me a few 1/8" sapele veneers 12" wide. Not cheap --though a lot cheaper than either doug fir or cedar-- and the amount of wood that got turned into dust makes me cringe, but they were what I needed. I believe they resaw them to 3/16" and then run them through a thickness sander to get them down to 1/8".

Alex

PeterSibley
09-14-2016, 11:49 PM
Edensaw will cut veneers of whatever you like, I think. They cut me a few 1/8" sapele veneers 12" wide. Not cheap --though a lot cheaper than either doug fir or cedar-- and the amount of wood that got turned into dust makes me cringe, but they were what I needed. I believe they resaw them to 3/16" and then run them through a thickness sander to get them down to 1/8".

Alex

Precisely what I'd do Alex, I'm even considering building another thickness sander.

keith66
09-15-2016, 02:13 AM
A good carbide tipped blade should cut cedar veneer with a good enough finish for cold molding without having to sand it.
As for using plywood? that sounds like a recipe for disaster, the quality of cheap ply is so awful these days yo would simply be wasting epoxy sticking it together.

wizbang 13
09-15-2016, 08:25 AM
For my 11 ' Witholz catboat I ripped my own from inch and a half yellow cedar. No planer, disc sanded when finished.
Never again will I waste so much time as to build a cold molded boat
Strip build and glass it.

DeanP
09-15-2016, 09:14 AM
I experimented with it, and costed it out for my circumstances. For me, it would have been easier but more expensive, by about 15%, but in Aus ply is expensive.

Things about ply...
1. You'll need to seal the outside with glass to stop print through.
2. It's not as strong for a given weight or thickness. Strong meaning stiff.
3. You'd wanna be very sure your ply is void less. Small ply can be hit and miss.
4. You have to pay a lot of attention to fairing after your strip plank bit, otherwise fairing will cut your face veneer.
5. It's not as flexible over compound bends while laying out.
6. Ply works best when you can vacuum bag, or on large boats where the economy catches up.

This was just my thinking, ymmv.

Lots of great info in your post and others. Your thoughts have inspired a few more questions:

Is print-thru more prevalent or likely with plywood than with solid wood? I plan to cover the outside with epoxy and Xynole, but had never considered print-thru as an issue.

A number of folks have warned against poor quality plywood. I have been assuming that 3mm BS1088 plywood from a reputable supplier would not have voids and be of sufficient quality. Is this a bad assumption?

I plan to use plastic staples and vacuum bag the veneers as I go- it will mean lots of small bagging operations as I work alone in the evenings.

Thanks all for the great input,

asrainox
09-15-2016, 06:14 PM
Lots of great info in your post and others. Your thoughts have inspired a few more questions:

Is print-thru more prevalent or likely with plywood than with solid wood? I plan to cover the outside with epoxy and Xynole, but had never considered print-thru as an issue.

A number of folks have warned against poor quality plywood. I have been assuming that 3mm BS1088 plywood from a reputable supplier would not have voids and be of sufficient quality. Is this a bad assumption?

I plan to use plastic staples and vacuum bag the veneers as I go- it will mean lots of small bagging operations as I work alone in the evenings.

Thanks all for the great input,

I think if you're glassing/xynoling then you'd have miminal print-through issues long term. I'm more or less convinced that ply would print through more, but i have no experience on it so I can't actually say for sure, just a gut feeling.

I think well made and reputable ply would be just fine - many have done it before with 3mm ply - but the "Meranti / pacific maple" etc BS1088 stuff can be hit and miss outside of the UK, as the standard is only enforceable INSIDE the territory of the standard (eg. Britain). Outside there, it kinda works like branding, but not actually a standardisation it has to meet.

Bagging for cold molded will definitely give you a great layup and minimise fairing. It's probably the rolls royce of molding techniques. Staples to line it up in place, vacuum to clamp.

keith66
09-15-2016, 06:56 PM
BS1088 Today is a meaningless standard in the UK, anyone can & does stamp it on any old garbage ply.I have seen exterior ply ofcuts stamped BS1088 totally disintegrate after just one night in a bucket of water. You simply cant trust it unless it is a premium brand like Brynzeel or Robbins elite (with acompanying high price tag). Most ply here now comes from china or the far east & good stuff is a total lottery.

capefox
09-16-2016, 01:46 PM
I'm starting to distill some ideas from this thread and emails to the designer, who BTW is a star to work with! There are three ways to build this 19 ft sailboat:

(1) 24 lap planks cut from 9mm high-quality marine ply (Aquatek is the only practical option and I'd probably have to fill some pinhole voids here and there);

(2) strip planking with 11mm cedar strips glued to sawed plywood frames or laminated timber frames (10 or 7 respectively) with 14 oz biax under super smooth 2.5 oz cloth on the outer side of the hull only; or

(3) cold molded with 9mm cedar strip planks fore and aft followed by 3mm thick diagonal veneer.

Does anyone have a handy formula to figure out the surface area of the hull? Total length = 18.95 ft, beam 6.6 ft.

DeanP
09-16-2016, 02:13 PM
[QUOTE=capefox;5007367]
(3) cold molded with 9mm cedar strip planks fore and aft followed by 3mm thick diagonal veneer.
QUOTE]

I assume you mean 2 layers of diagonal veneers (+/-45 degrees). All the literature I have seen on this topic, shows at least one layer in each direction...

capefox
09-16-2016, 03:00 PM
[QUOTE=capefox;5007367]
(3) cold molded with 9mm cedar strip planks fore and aft followed by 3mm thick diagonal veneer.
QUOTE]

I assume you mean 2 layers of diagonal veneers (+/-45 degrees). All the literature I have seen on this topic, shows at least one layer in each direction...

No. The designer specifies 9mm cedar strips running horizontally to the waterline covered by 3mm khaya veneers laid 45 degrees to the waterline. I picture something like this:

http://www.thewoodenboatschool.com/img/boatbuilding/ModernBB.jpg

asrainox
09-16-2016, 09:25 PM
[QUOTE=DeanP;5007395]

No. The designer specifies 9mm cedar strips running horizontally to the waterline covered by 3mm khaya veneers laid 45 degrees to the waterline. I picture something like this:

http://www.thewoodenboatschool.com/img/boatbuilding/ModernBB.jpg

This is a cold-molded Tomcat (12ft 6Inch if I recall), and in the end, they went the other way also, and i think even a third fore and aft. Maybe just two. Two layers is traditional to distribute stress evenly. I think it's important to go both ways. I know you've spoken to the designer about it, but if they want nominal thickness to be 12mm (9mm + 3mm veneer), going 6mm + 2 x 3mm diagonal veneers would unequivocally make a stiffer, stronger hull.

6mm vs 9mm might need a few more molds to hold its shape while laying up the hull though, but I've never seen anyone go for a single layer of molding before.

debenriver
09-17-2016, 07:53 AM
(1) 24 lap planks cut from 9mm high-quality marine ply (Aquatek is the only practical option and I'd probably have to fill some pinhole voids here and there);

(2) strip planking with 11mm cedar strips glued to sawed plywood frames or laminated timber frames (10 or 7 respectively) with 14 oz biax under super smooth 2.5 oz cloth on the outer side of the hull only; or

(3) cold molded with 9mm cedar strip planks fore and aft followed by 3mm thick diagonal veneer.

Does anyone have a handy formula to figure out the surface area of the hull? Total length = 18.95 ft, beam 6.6 ft.

The theoretical surface area of the hull is 13.119 m = 141ft. In practice it will be a little more than this because that is the surface area at inside of hull skin – as you add skins, the surface area grows a little. You should probably reckon on something like 16m - say 170ft with waste.

In Europe sliced hardwood veneers are usually easily obtainable in good lengths (say 3000mm - 10'). Being sliced they are not so wasteful of timber. It seems to be more of a problem in the US for some reason. Sawing veneers is indeed very wasteful and costly. Might it actually be cheaper simply to buy from the UK or Germany – it's not a huge weight to ship (about 50kg I would think)?

Not all ply is necessarily bad quality – though unfortunately much of it is nowadays and also wrongly marked and sold. Genuine BS1088, or genuine Lloyds approved is good quality. If you get 3mm ply of as good a quality as you would for the 9mm lapstrake planks – or indeed the ply frames if that is what you are going to build on, then there is no problem using that as veneers (two layers at approx +45 and -45). In fact 4mm would be fine too. It adds a little weight (about 14kg for the extra 2mm thickness).

Cheers -- George

DeanP
09-17-2016, 07:19 PM
In Europe sliced hardwood veneers are usually easily obtainable in good lengths (say 3000mm - 10'). Being sliced they are not so wasteful of timber. It seems to be more of a problem in the US for some reason. Sawing veneers is indeed very wasteful and costly. Might it actually be cheaper simply to buy from the UK or Germany – it's not a huge weight to ship (about 50kg I would think)?

Cheers -- George

Hi George,

Can you recommend any (UK/European) suppliers of sliced veneers that might entertain a shipment to the US. I'm interested in this option for my boat.

Thanks,

Dean

debenriver
09-17-2016, 07:41 PM
In the UK Reliance Veneer are probably the best (in terms of shipping overseas). http://www.relianceveneer.com They ship worldwide.

I have several boats building in Europe and those builders are all getting their veneers locally – I can ask if those local suppliers would ship to the US.

My favourite English firm for veneers, E V Exports, is sadly no longer in business. We must have bought many thousands of m of veneers from them!

Cheers -- George

capefox
09-17-2016, 09:14 PM
I did find local supplier for 3mm veneer yesterday here in the Western US. Pretty reasonable too. It is 3mm Luan veneer, which looks clear and pretty. Would this be suitable.

asrainox
09-17-2016, 11:59 PM
Lauan is Meranti/Pacific Maple/Philipine Mahogany (same sorta trees in a name group/property group). The cheap bs1088 ply is usually Meranti, and that's Lauan's most common usage.

It'll do your job fine, but best to seal it well, as like most softwoods - isn't particularly durable.

It'll be somewhat heavier than WRC, by probably 15-20% in reality. I'd not hesitate to use it thought there is immense variability of species called Lauan and their density and qualities can vary from quite heavy (500kg m3 +) and hard, to quite light and soft (300-350km m3). That's what you get when it's a mix of species, elevations and sources all labelled the same.

in summary - It'll do just fine, if a bit heavier than WRC.

debenriver
09-18-2016, 07:02 AM
3mm Luan is fine. The original design was for Khaya veneers, which are if anything heavier than Luan (though as asrainox says, its density varies greatly). It generally takes epoxy well and at 3mm the epoxy will penetrate the veneers well, especially the lighter variety.

Cheers -- George

capefox
09-18-2016, 10:09 AM
That's wonderful news about the lauan. This thread has left me with one small bit of confusion regarding cold molding the Whisstock Model 74. I had the impression the first layer was made of 6mm x 25mm strips sawed from 25mm thick cedar boards (table saw or Skilsaw with a guide) and edge glued running fore to aft with epoxy as are many strip planked canoes, followed by a single layer of 3mm veneer glued on with epoxy at a 45 degree angle. Should there be a third layer -- a second layer of 3mm veneer at -45? Thanks for bearing with me. I'm entirely new to this cold molding technique.

asrainox
09-18-2016, 04:58 PM
That's wonderful news about the lauan. This thread has left me with one small bit of confusion regarding cold molding the Whisstock Model 74. I had the impression the first layer was made of 6mm x 25mm strips sawed from 25mm thick cedar boards (table saw or Skilsaw with a guide) and edge glued running fore to aft with epoxy as are many strip planked canoes, followed by a single layer of 3mm veneer glued on with epoxy at a 45 degree angle. Should there be a third layer -- a second layer of 3mm veneer at -45? Thanks for bearing with me. I'm entirely new to this cold molding technique.

That would be typical.

Most designs I've seen seen of the "strip and veneer" style cold molding, rather than triple diagonal, seem to have half the skin thickness in the fore and aft layer, and half the skin in the diagonals. Of Course, Deben is your go-to here, whether it be 6mm+3mm+3mm, perhaps 9mm+3mm with only one layer, or some other combination.

:)

debenriver
09-18-2016, 07:09 PM
That would be typical.

Most designs I've seen seen of the "strip and veneer" style cold molding, rather than triple diagonal, seem to have half the skin thickness in the fore and aft layer, and half the skin in the diagonals. Of Course, Deben is your go-to here, whether it be 6mm+3mm+3mm, perhaps 9mm+3mm with only one layer, or some other combination.

:)

That is quite correct. The inner skin is 6mm strip planking (square edge; concave/convex edge; or tongue-&-groove edge). The second layer is 3mm veneer laid at +45. The third layer is also 3mm veneer laid at -45. So the outer two veneer skins are diagonal at approximately 90 to each other. It's a very conventional wood/epoxy cold-moulded lay up.

If you look at Instruction Book 7, Section 55, Chapters 1 through 5, you will see that this is dealt with in some detail. The section includes a discussion of the three types of strip planking, and machining your own strips; suitable strip dimensions; laying the strips; fitting and laying the veneers and the several methods of fitting them; finishing off outside and, if wished, incorporating a light woven glass cloth in the second epoxy coat; and finishing off the interior of the hull after she is turned over.

I'm quite happy for you to use a variety of timbers for the strip planking – I suggest WRC, Douglas Fir or Yellow Cedar – but any timber that is reasonably clean and clear, dry to max. 12% moisture content, not too heavy (say less than 550 kg/m), and good with epoxies (so not too much resin, tannin or oil), should be OK.

Slight drift here, but in this context, I am often asked by builders (especially in Australia) if it is OK to use Paulownia for the strip planking. Paulownia is weaker that WRC (modulus of rupture 37.9 MPa as opposed to 51.7 MPa) and lighter (280 kg/m as opposed to 370 kg/m). It's also softer, so will damage more easily if things are dropped on it inside the hull (especially while building). I don't know with absolute certainty how strong the inner skin needs to be, but I do know that, for this boat, 6mm WRC is sufficient. So, as a matter of prudence I advise builders to increase the inner skin to 8mm. The weight will even out about the same and the thicker hull is good generally.

For the veneers, again there are many timbers that are suitable. For example, Black Cherry is currently a favourite in Europe (even though it's an American timber) as Khaya is becoming less easily available. It's good for laminated frames and hull veneers.

The thing with epoxy bonding and coating is that with thin veneers (say 2.5mm to 3mm) the epoxy migrates right through the cells of the timber so you are getting a true composite material. So in many ways the timber species is not so important.

In that context, we used to laminate the stems for our 30' Naja kit boats from 10mm Iroko – as often as not, the epoxy would migrate though that thickness of timber; and that's without complicated systems like vacuum bagging.

If you use ply (3mm or 4mm) for the veneer skins, you won't get so much epoxy penetration because the ply glue line will impede it. But you will still get a good bond and achieve the double diagonal stiffness that is required.

Cheers -- George

capefox
09-18-2016, 08:14 PM
Thank you, George. I will pore over that excellent information in the manual. Appreciate everyone's help here.