anybody use Raptor nailing system?

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Check www.raptornails.com. (http://www.raptornails.com.) These are polymer nails shot from a pneumatic gun. I'm thinking of buying the $210 gun and the 7/16" nails. Intend to use them nailing mahogany 1/8" planks down in epoxy over ply. I'd leave the heads a little bit proud then when the epoxy is dry, go over with a sander and sand the heads off. The nail shaft will not rust of course, takes up the color of the stain, and according to the company "becomes one" with the wood. I tried this on a scrap, and after sanding, staining, and varnishing you really can't see most of the nails. Anybody tried this business?

[Bill Perkins]

Dale I've got the (also pricey ) staple gun , from Italy no less . I hadn't heard that the fasteners would take stain , I've got to check this out .I could under drive the longest staples and snip them off, thanks for posting . I didn't believe the manufacturers theory about the heat of driving melting the fastener and bonding it to the wood ,but I like the product .

My gun has to be thoughly cleaned either before or after each use . Either the glue holding the staples is gumming the gun up or it's sucking minute amounts of epoxy in as the driver retracts after each shot .Do you have this problem with the nailer ? Are the nails light grey like the staples ?

[Dale R. Hamilton]

bill I havent got the system yet. I sent them a sample of my mahogany and 1/4" ply, had them shoot the 7/16ths nails and send it back to me. The nails were a grey-creme color. I snipped the heads and sanded them down. Applied dark red mahogany stain/filler, and varnished as usual. It looks like the nails take the stain, but if you look really hard you can see them. They make brown colored nails- and if I buy the system will order these. Sounds like you like the outfit.

[JeffH]

We have seven air guns of various makes at the shop, some Raptor, some others, all expensive. It's nice having that many, since several can be guaranteed to be down for repairs at any given time, due to jamming, sticking, or some small fiddly (but important) bits falling off. At one point in a rather frenzied glue-up only one of the seven was working. Dissapointing for such an expensive tool. Perhaps they would work better in a less abusive environment....

Jeff

[Cecil Borel]

Dale: I have used the raptor system both for nailing strips together and for stapling veneers. I am very satisfied with the nails for stack laminating, mostly because they are so friendly to edge tools and sandpaper. The nails and staples don't seem to provide a lot of additional strength to the glue, but I notice when I cut through the laminations that the wood stops cutting at the nail briefly.
My nail gun has always worked well, so far, but it would set the nail heads below the surface in douglas fir. Nevertheless, you could probably fill the holes with compatible epoxy/saw dust.

[paladin]

i dunn bilt my second boat using a similar system....and have used various similar techniques........the staple or nail usually has a heat sensitive coating...like a heat activated epoxy, and the friction of driving the fastener activates the adhesive.......but I still like to remove the fasteners after the epoxy sets. There are NO metal fasteners in my boat.......well... except the bolts etc holding hardware on.......

[Carlsboats]

I have had no problems with Raptor nails or staples. Used as follows: Edge nailed 5/8" white cedar strip planking, adding some bronze or copper nails where needed to be sure got adequate pressure for the glue (resorcinol resin). Then used Raptor staples to put on two diagonal layers of spanish cedar, epoxied in place, driving staples hard enough to sink below surface. Yes, they tell me it's okay to exoxy veneers over substrate glued with resorcinal resins. Neither the staple gun nor the nail gun gummed up with glue. Jammed a few times, but no problem in clearing. Tools got really messy on outside, but when I sent the staple gun back to Raptor for service, they did a takedown and sent it back to me with a note saying it looked fine inside.
I would certainly use the plastic nail/staple approach again. And no, of course they don't add much strength -- they're really meant to serve as clamps until the glue sets.

[Stiletto]

Re tools getting messy on the outside , I now tape masking tape allover my cordless drill etc, When I've finished work I peel the tape and epoxy off.

[Bill Perkins]

Carl it's interesting to hear you've had no fouling on the inside of your stapler . I was useing the longest (9/16th) staples to fasten 1/4 in. veneers I'd resawed .To countersink them I have to confess to useing slightly more than the recommended PSI. Maybe one or both of these factors led to the gumming up .

[Ellis Rowe]

I use the Raptor stapler to lay up cold moulded hulls, and have had no trouble at all with them. They actually hold better than the metal staples that I use to dry fit.

[Venchka]

If a fellow wanted to use both the nail gun and the staple gun to build a boat, what size compressor is needed?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Wayne- any staple or nail gun uses very little CFM- Each trigger pull uses a short blast to drive the fastener- very little air. But still I like a big compressor- in my case Ingersoll Rand T30. Will handle any tool I've got including duel cylinder inline sanders- real air hogs.

[Ken Hutchins]

Raptor probably won't like this they would prefer to sell their expensive nailer, but their finish nails can be driven with a PC finish nailer. :D A little bit of improvement with a file and abrasive stones to the PC nail guide was necessary to get a good fit for the plastic nails to shoot without jamming. ;) the bottom line is the plastic nails go in soft woods good, but don't expect them to go into harder woods like Oak and Ash.

[G. Schollmeier]

Ken, would that be a PC model DA250A?

[Ken Hutchins]

GS, mine is a FN250A nailer the DN model has the nails at an angle, so it will not work because the Raptor mails are collated straight..

[G. Schollmeier]

:(

[Venchka]

Ken,

Is there a P-C stapler that works with the Raptor staples? Red cedar to red cedar or red cedar to doug-fir is ok for the Raptor nails and staples?

I figure the Ingersoll-Rand compressor is probably bigger than a water heater. What type of "normal" compressor holds up well, won't take up half my garage or expend the entire boat building budget? Eh? :cool:

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Ken Hutchins]

Wayne, I'm not sure I don't have a stapler, perhaps someone else knows the answer to this.

[ssor]

Wayne, I have a little 3 gallon contractors portable compressor. It can stay ahead of my finish nailer and stapler but my framing nailer can make it work overtime. Then I just take a breather and let it catch up.

Ross in Bel Air

[Venchka]

Thanks everyone!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 03-15-2005, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Boston]

They make a nailer to, anyone tried it ? Will it nail through 3/4 Douglas marine ply and into, say, a piece of White Oak framing ?

Also I've got a customer who's house I'm working on, historic renovation. His base trim was nailed directly into the brick, old sand brick, pretty soft stuff. I was thinking of maybe doing the same with the refurbished base and was thinking if these things can handle it, they'd be perfect.

[CundysHarbor]

3/4 marine ply and white oak are no problem for plastic nails and a palm nailer. Of course, you have to drill for the nails. They are used to hold things in contact until the epoxy kicks.
Dave

[Boston]

Hmmmmm I was hoping to avoid predrilling but I thought I might have been asking for the moon. I see someone mentioned the finish nails 14 and 15 gauge could be fired through the FN250A which I think I have. Thanks for the tip.

[JimConlin]

There have been some successes reported here.
IIRC, they're most commonly used for laminating soft materials like cedar.
I recollect that some have found fussy tuning of guns is needed.

Why not call Raptor and ask them?

[kbowen]

I have been using the Raptor nailer for a strip-composite project with mixed results: The pyramid point nails are useless imho, because they grab whatever wood-grain they find and head off to Peoria. The chisel point nails are much better when used cross-grain, but still occasionally erupt out of the side of the strip. When they do this they don't secure anything, but being plastic, they are easy to snap and sand off, and you just shoot another one. The longest nails they make with a chisel point are 1.5" I think, which limits the size of your strips to about 1". However, I have found that you can pass the magazines of longer pyramid point nails over a belt-sander and make them chisel point which improves their performance markedly. In a strip-building scenario (7/8" strips), the gun won't pull wood together, but will hold it reasonably well once you manually shove it onto position and nail it. If the force or torque on the strip is sufficient that you need a clamp to pull it into place, then you want to leave the clamp there until the glue hardens because the nail is too flexible to hold that much force without the glue sucking back into the gap. This is a Mackinaw boat with a beastly amount of twist toward the plumb-stem and raked sternpost, and if I have a troublesome strip I use a monel ring-shank nail at the ends. This happens every 4 strips or so. I have not tried the Raptor nails on hardwood, but they work fine attaching WR cedar to laminated Doug-Fir frames and stem, and are fine for edge-nailing. Glue-gunk in the gun is indeed an ongoing problem, but on-balance, when working alone, this seems WAY better than hand nailing, screws, narrow-crown staples, dowels, etc, etc.

Ken


There have been some successes reported here.
IIRC, they're most commonly used for laminating soft materials like cedar.
I recollect that some have found fussy tuning of guns is needed.

Why not call Raptor and ask them?