2nd amendment; a different question

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  • John Smith
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2009
    • 48681

    2nd amendment; a different question

    This came to me watching Trump last night.

    Does the 2nd Amendment apply to those here illegally?
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book
  • biga
    Banned
    • Feb 2016
    • 1331

    #2
    Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

    interesting. i would imagine that it would not. but then again, i wouldn't think they'd be able to get on welfare, EBT, or WIC assistance.

    Comment

    • jack grebe
      Misunderstood
      • Feb 2001
      • 13530

      #3
      Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

      I would say not. I believe that the Bill of Rights was written for U.S. citizens.

      That being said, I am not a liberal.

      I would find it interesting to see which way liberiods will go. If they
      Say yes, the 2nd amendment does apply to illegal immigrants, aren't
      they also endorsing it?
      If No, where is the line drawn with the Government?....pick and choose
      won't work.
      Originally posted by George Jung
      Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

      Comment

      • Gerarddm
        #RESIST
        • Feb 2010
        • 32453

        #4
        Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

        Not being a Constitutional attorney, my opinion is about as useful as any other civilian, but I would hazard that yes it does apply. After all, it refers to just people, not specifically citizens.
        Gerard>
        Albuquerque, NM

        Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

        Comment

        • jack grebe
          Misunderstood
          • Feb 2001
          • 13530

          #5
          Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

          Originally posted by Gerarddm
          Not being a Constitutional attorney, my opinion is about as useful as any other civilian, but I would hazard that yes it does apply. After all, it refers to just people, not specifically citizens.
          If that is the case, would it not extend beyond our borders?
          Originally posted by George Jung
          Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

          Comment

          • Corvida
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2015
            • 1236

            #6
            Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

            The answer is yes, but no.



            Liberals don't have a problem with people exercising the second amendment, they have a problem with the second amendment. It's a blanket law, and like most blanket laws, it doesn't deal well with the variety of situations that now exist.

            Comment

            • Gerarddm
              #RESIST
              • Feb 2010
              • 32453

              #7
              Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

              No, Jack. It is a Constitution for the USA and for people residing therein, not for the world.
              Gerard>
              Albuquerque, NM

              Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

              Comment

              • Nicholas Carey
                Flâneur • Seattle
                • Feb 2001
                • 20330

                #8
                Originally posted by Gerarddm
                Not being a Constitutional attorney, my opinion is about as useful as any other civilian, but I would hazard that yes it does apply. After all, it refers to just people, not specifically citizens.


                Yes. The Committee on Style used the word "citizen" very deliberately. Except for a very small usage, defining eligibility for office and the scope of judicial power, etc., "person" or "people" is used exclusively. The intent was that the Rights defined in the 1st 10 amendments extend to all who come under the thumb of the United States. They do not extend to citizens.

                The courts have narrowed that considerably over the years, by virtue of chicken-s*#t deference to the executive branch, however.

                Here is an interesting article from the Harvard Law Review.

                “The big joke on democracy is that it gives its mortal enemies the tools to its own destruction,” Goebbels said as the Nazis rose to power—one of those quotes that sound apocryphal but are not.​
                — Adam Gopnik

                Comment

                • jack grebe
                  Misunderstood
                  • Feb 2001
                  • 13530

                  #9
                  Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

                  Originally posted by Gerarddm
                  No, Jack. It is a Constitution for the USA and for people residing therein, not for the world.
                  The key word there is "residing" , not hiding.

                  Residing has a way of feeling legal, they are not. They are hiding here.
                  Originally posted by George Jung
                  Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

                  Comment

                  • David W Pratt
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2005
                    • 12324

                    #10
                    Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

                    Other amendments (eg 4th, 5th) seem to have been construed as applying to illegal immigrants, so 2nd should as well.
                    State laws may have that pesky "legal resident..." language.
                    Why do you ask, are you illegal?

                    Comment

                    • jack grebe
                      Misunderstood
                      • Feb 2001
                      • 13530

                      #11
                      Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

                      Originally posted by David W Pratt
                      Other amendments (eg 4th, 5th) seem to have been construed as applying to illegal immigrants, so 2nd should as well.
                      State laws may have that pesky "legal resident..." language.
                      Why do you ask, are you illegal?
                      Agreed, but if you agree that the 2nd also applies, are you not
                      also supporting its right to exist?

                      How can one say someone has a right, then turn around and campaign to abolish that right?
                      Originally posted by George Jung
                      Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

                      Comment

                      • CWSmith
                        New Hampshire
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 43999

                        #12
                        Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

                        Originally posted by John Smith
                        This came to me watching Trump last night.

                        Does the 2nd Amendment apply to those here illegally?
                        John, you are a bad, bad man.

                        Here is the more basic question: Are illegal aliens entitled to due process? If so, can gun rights be far behind?
                        "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

                        "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

                        "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

                        Comment

                        • jack grebe
                          Misunderstood
                          • Feb 2001
                          • 13530

                          #13
                          Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

                          Let's see here,.....come on in, legal or not.

                          You will be protected by our constitution.
                          Paid by our welfare system.
                          Fed on our food stamps.
                          Watched over by our police.

                          Just don't get caught, we might deport you.....







                          All in all its just another brick in the wall.......
                          Originally posted by George Jung
                          Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

                          Comment

                          • John Smith
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 48681

                            #14
                            Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

                            Originally posted by CWSmith
                            John, you are a bad, bad man.

                            Here is the more basic question: Are illegal aliens entitled to due process? If so, can gun rights be far behind?
                            Normally I would say yes, but there was one hell of an uproar when the shoe bomber got Miranda rights. Prisoners of war are entitled so a due process, but we came up with "illegal combatants" who were entitled to nothing.

                            I'm curious what the NRA would say in regards to illegals have the right to weapons.
                            "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

                            Comment

                            • BrianY
                              Left Wing Extremist
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 7942

                              #15
                              Re: 2nd amendment; a different question

                              Yes, but that doesn't mean that they can actually have guns.

                              See http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2016/03/appeals-court-ruling-could-threaten-the-second-amendment-rights-of-american-citizens



                              On August 20, 2015, the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit issued a decision in United States v. Mariano A. Meza-Rodriguez.[1] This case addresses two interesting questions:
                              • Do non-citizens have Second Amendment rights?
                              • Even if they do have such rights, can the government criminalize the possession of guns by illegal aliens?
                              Key Points

                              1. United States v. Mariano A. Meza-Rodriguez addressed two interesting questions: Do non-citizens have Second Amendment rights? Even if they do, can the government criminalize gun possession by illegal aliens?
                              2. The Rodriguez court held that although illegal aliens are covered by the Second Amendment, the government nevertheless can constitutionally prohibit them from owning firearms and ammunition.
                              3. In Rodriguez, the Seventh Circuit held that the federal government’s interest in “prohibiting persons who are difficult to track and who have an interest in eluding law enforcement” from owning firearms and ammunition is strong enough to pass constitutional muster.
                              4. Even if illegal aliens are considered part of “the people” for Second Amendment purposes (or if a court declines to address the issue), the blanket prohibition on illegal aliens possessing firearms may properly be considered a traditional regulation that is per se constitutional under Heller and not subject to intermediate or heightened scrutiny.
                              I rather be an American than a Republican.

                              Comment

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