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Jim Bow
08-24-2016, 09:47 AM
With all the positive aspects of the Tesla, why did Elon choose to install the most complicated rear doors to ever see production?

Dan McCosh
08-24-2016, 09:53 AM
He thought he could do better than Bricklin.

CWSmith
08-24-2016, 09:54 AM
I don't know about the door, but a friend told me yesterday about his bother who took a trip in a Tesla. He said the rapid recharging stations were convenient and fast, that all he had to do was eat lunch and then get driving again. The car knows the location of the closest recharging station and how many bays are available. It sound pretty darn good to me, if I could afford the price tag.

Norman Bernstein
08-24-2016, 09:56 AM
I don't know about the door, but a friend told me yesterday about his bother who took a trip in a Tesla. He said the rapid recharging stations were convenient and fast, that all he had to do was eat lunch and then get driving again. The car knows the location of the closest recharging station and how many bays are available. It sound pretty darn good to me, if I could afford the price tag.

A friend of mine drives one. His son is a Director of Technology at Tesla, and I think he got the car as some sort of low cost lease. They seem to like it very much.

Dan McCosh
08-24-2016, 09:59 AM
I don't know about the door, but a friend told me yesterday about his bother who took a trip in a Tesla. He said the rapid recharging stations were convenient and fast, that all he had to do was eat lunch and then get driving again. The car knows the location of the closest recharging station and how many bays are available. It sound pretty darn good to me, if I could afford the price tag. The problem being eating four lunches a day means putting on a bit of weight.

TomF
08-24-2016, 10:03 AM
With all the positive aspects of the Tesla, why did Elon choose to install the most complicated rear doors to ever see production?
See Pless' sig.

Joe (SoCal)
08-24-2016, 10:11 AM
They are all the rage here in SoCal I see them all the time. We even have a couple of charging stations here in my complex.

They just announced a new battery on the model S and a 300 mi range. Now if I just had a spare $120K New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World

The Model S P100D with Ludicrous mode is the third fastest accelerating production car ever produced, with a 0-60 mph time of 2.5* seconds. However, both the LaFerrari and the Porsche 918 Spyder were limited run, million dollar vehicles and cannot be bought new. While those cars are small two seaters with very little luggage space, the pure electric, all-wheel drive Model S P100D has four doors, seats up to 5 adults plus 2 children and has exceptional cargo capacity.

The 100 kWh battery also increases range substantially to an estimated 315 miles on the EPA cycle and 613 km on the EU cycle, making it the first to go beyond 300 miles and the longest range production electric vehicle by far.
The larger battery pack is also available on the Model X, making the world’s quickest SUV even faster. Model X P100D with Ludicrous mode accelerates to 60 mph in 2.9* seconds and travels up to 289 miles EPA estimated and 542 km EU on a single charge. Model X is also a pure electric SUV and can seat up to seven adults.
Model S and Model X are engineered to be the safest cars on the road and to have the highest ratings from NHTSA. Both have access to the Tesla Supercharger network for the freedom to travel long distance for free. And every Tesla will improve over time with free over the air upgrades.

Tesla customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous, but not taken delivery, can upgrade to the 100 kWh pack for $10,000. Existing P90D Ludicrous owners can also upgrade to a 100 kWh pack, but for $20,000, as their used 90 kWh pack will have to be recycled.
While the P100D Ludicrous is obviously an expensive vehicle, we want to emphasize that every sale helps pay for the smaller and much more affordable Tesla Model 3 that is in development. Without customers willing to buy the expensive Model S and X, we would be unable to fund the smaller, more affordable Model 3 development.

Jim Bow
08-24-2016, 10:56 AM
I like the Tesla, too. My inquiry is about the rear doors on the so-called SUV version. They must have 10 motors and an equal number of hinges. Rube Goldberg would be proud.

paulf
08-24-2016, 11:02 AM
The Tesla Model S Just Got Upgraded To LUDICROUS SPEED (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwivv6zutdrOAhVK62MKHVM4CLoQFggrMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjalopnik.com%2Fthe-tesla-model-s-just-got-upgraded-to-ludicrous-speed-1718577723&usg=AFQjCNGb_nBi2COvdnegxqGSSYotgx1_Jg&cad=rja)
Tapping in on all the buzz words, catering to those who have lots of extra money! Ludicrous Speed is a $10,000 upgrade.

There is a seeker born every minute.

B_B
08-24-2016, 11:07 AM
I like the Tesla, too. My inquiry is about the rear doors on the so-called SUV version. They must have 10 motors and an equal number of hinges. Rube Goldberg would be proud.
sliding doors = $30,000 minivan, regular doors = $40,000 suv, falcon doors = $100,000 suv

Hugh Conway
08-24-2016, 01:59 PM
The Elon Musk as engineer thing I find wacky. The CEO of multiple company's, juggling lots, has his office on the floor fixing problems (that's his claim btw)? In between jetting around giving talks, meeting with bankers, cavorting with models - Elon pops over to the factory floor and fixes mundane production problems?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-24-2016, 04:09 PM
Is there a picture of this door?

Hugh Conway
08-24-2016, 04:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vox78WUVtd8

carioca1232001
08-24-2016, 06:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vox78WUVtd8

The first time I ever saw those gull-wing doors was on a low slung, 2-seater Mercedes Benz two-seater sports (Model C something) displayed for all to see at the Earlīs Court Motor Show in London, England (1969/70).

A classmate of mine from Cyprus, a mech eng student, went nuts over it and stayed that way for several years !

peb
08-24-2016, 07:30 PM
Tesla, this decades version of DeLorean.

Jim Bow
08-24-2016, 07:31 PM
Elon's doors have hinges at the roof and below the window. They can unfold even if a minivan parks a foot away.

carioca1232001
08-24-2016, 08:00 PM
Elon's doors have hinges at the roof and below the window. They can unfold even if a minivan parks a foot away.

One wouldnīt expect any less from Tesla, considering their track record and taking into account how relatively easy it is today, compared to the late 60īs, to actually implement whatever in a product, provided that it complies with physical laws (and bean counters)

A large-size poster-add from a US electronics concern (INTERSIL) in the late 70īs/early 80īs read more or less as follows: 'There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come' (with a sketch of Albert Einstein in the background).

A bit of an overstatement because even then, there was no dearth of ideas, but to see these develop as just a prototype - much less a product on the market - was truly a formidable task. BTDT

Dan McCosh
08-25-2016, 08:31 AM
The first time I ever saw those gull-wing doors was on a low slung, 2-seater Mercedes Benz two-seater sports (Model C something) displayed for all to see at the Earlīs Court Motor Show in London, England (1969/70).

A classmate of mine from Cyprus, a mech eng student, went nuts over it and stayed that way for several years ! The 1954 Mercedes 300SL coupe featured gull-wing doors. The main problem with the concept is how to get out of the car when they fail.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-25-2016, 08:36 AM
The first time I ever saw those gull-wing doors was on a low slung, 2-seater Mercedes Benz two-seater sports (Model C something) displayed for all to see at the Earlīs Court Motor Show in London, England (1969/70).

A classmate of mine from Cyprus, a mech eng student, went nuts over it and stayed that way for several years !

Understandably.

C111

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3jIIS3FFAQ

Paul Pless
08-25-2016, 08:39 AM
turbo diesel wankle c111

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Mercedes_benz_c111_III.JPG/1920px-Mercedes_benz_c111_III.JPG

Paul Pless
08-25-2016, 08:39 AM
anti lifting body c111 :D

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Mercedes_benz_c111_IV.JPG/1920px-Mercedes_benz_c111_IV.JPG

carioca1232001
08-25-2016, 08:55 AM
The 1954 Mercedes 300SL coupe featured gull-wing doors. The main problem with the concept is how to get out of the car when they fail.

News to me.

Joe (SoCal)
08-25-2016, 08:58 AM
Tesla, this decades version of DeLorean.

You're not very good at math are you ?

About 9,000 DMC-12s were made before production halted in early 1983.

Tesla Motors (TSLA) 1Q 2016 Sales: 14,820 Model S, Model X Cars Were Delivered In First Three Months; Model S Sales Jumped 45%

Paul Pless
08-25-2016, 09:13 AM
I'm with Peb. Tesla will be nothing more than a niche player. GM, Toyota, and Renault (Nissan) will dominate the mass market in electric vehicles. BMW and Porsche will displace Tesla in the performance and luxury market. Tesla does not have the scalability to compete in the long run.

ron ll
08-25-2016, 09:26 AM
Can't swing a dead cat in Seattle without hitting a Tesla.

TomF
08-25-2016, 09:27 AM
Are they warranteed for that? Either the cats or the Teslas?

Dan McCosh
08-25-2016, 09:39 AM
News to me. The 300 SL was based on an F1 chassis, incorporated the first production fuel-injected engine. It was the car that crashed at its first LeMans race, going into the crowd and killing some 130 people--which caused Mercedes to pull out of racing for decades, arguably the worst race disaster in history. It was also the fastest production car of its day, cost about $8,000 (US$).

Joe (SoCal)
08-25-2016, 09:51 AM
Can't swing a dead cat in Seattle without hitting a Tesla.

Can't swing anything dead or alive in SoCal without hitting a Tesla. FAR more than I see of those buttarse fuggly BMW i3's and even fewer of the somewhat attractive but useless i8. As a matter of fact Tesla is way better looking and built than just about every mass produced GM, Toyota, and Renault (Nissan), fiat electric. The Nissan Leaf is ugly, the toyota Prius is ugly, the GM Volt is ugly. The Fiat is kinda nice for fun but not practical. I see Tesla as more of the "Real" electric car and the rest of them as poor copycats. By the look at the 405, the 5 and the 110 fway and about town here ( probably one of there biggest markets ) They are 10 to one to every other electric car out here. Talking with owners they just say its the best car they have ever owned as far as build quality and performance.

Dan McCosh
08-25-2016, 09:57 AM
Can't swing anything dead or alive in SoCal without hitting a Tesla. FAR more than I see of those buttarse fuggly BMW i3's and even fewer of the somewhat attractive but useless i8. As a matter of fact Tesla is way better looking and built than just about every mass produced GM, Toyota, and Renault (Nissan), fiat electric. The Nissan Leaf is ugly, the toyota Prius is ugly, the GM Volt is ugly. The Fiat is kinda nice for fun but not practical. I see Tesla as more of the "Real" electric car and the rest of them as poor copycats. By the look at the 405, the 5 and the 110 fway and about town here ( probably one of there biggest markets ) They are 10 to one to every other electric car out here. Quite true--The first year of Tesla sales went about 90% to a handful of California cities dominated by the tech business. It was a must-have status symbol for the California tech industry.

Paul Pless
08-25-2016, 10:00 AM
As a matter of fact Tesla is way better looking and built than just about every mass produced GM, Toyota, and Renault (Nissan), fiat electric. better build quality than Toyota? I don't recall reading any stories of Toyota batteries catching on fire; that was pretty big Tesla news. . .

then there's the poor weatherstripping, paint, seat controls (since moving away from renault production*) and of course the squishing of babies :D

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-x-approaches-old-jaguar-levels-of-build-qua-1777626087

* yeah, initially tesla's were built using renault components and the quality was better then. . .

Dan McCosh
08-25-2016, 10:03 AM
better build quality than Toyota? I don't recall reading any stories of Toyota batteries catching on fire; that was pretty big Tesla news. . .

then there's the poor weatherstripping, paint, seat controls (since moving away from renault production*) and of course the squishing of babies :D

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-x-approaches-old-jaguar-levels-of-build-qua-1777626087

* yeah, initially tesla's were built using renault components and the quality was better then. . . You forgot the wheels falling off.

B_B
08-25-2016, 05:47 PM
I'm with Peb. Tesla will be nothing more than a niche player. GM, Toyota, and Renault (Nissan) will dominate the mass market in electric vehicles. BMW and Porsche will displace Tesla in the performance and luxury market. Tesla does not have the scalability to compete in the long run.
As a car company; they're not a car company.

B_B
08-25-2016, 05:50 PM
Tesla, this decades version of DeLorean.

You might be on to something!





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Jim Bow
08-25-2016, 06:01 PM
I'm with Peb. Tesla will be nothing more than a niche player. GM, Toyota, and Renault (Nissan) will dominate the mass market in electric vehicles. BMW and Porsche will displace Tesla in the performance and luxury market. Tesla does not have the scalability to compete in the long run.
I can see Tesla licensing technology and supplying parts to bigger manufacturers.

Joe (SoCal)
08-25-2016, 06:06 PM
I can see Tesla licensing technology and supplying parts to bigger manufacturers.

I can see Tesla owning and developing the fast charging supply chain and becoming the new Exxon/Mobile of the EV age. Developing the vehicles and charging stations along the way. Becoming a utility giant.

Hugh Conway
08-25-2016, 06:09 PM
The 300 SL was based on an F1 chassis, incorporated the first production fuel-injected engine. It was the car that crashed at its first LeMans race, going into the crowd and killing some 130 people--which caused Mercedes to pull out of racing for decades, arguably the worst race disaster in history. It was also the fastest production car of its day, cost about $8,000 (US$).

That was the 300SLR that crashed - it was an F1 chassis, as it competed in the F1 events of the day. The mass production 300SL was similar, but different - bigger door openings among many other changes. And there was a roadster later. I always thought it cool they had a factory ski rack available
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d4/19/89/d419896db66d82eb6af11447f8414d54.jpg


As a car company; they're not a car company.

They're a what? Ponzi scheme? They've got to spend lots of money to build these things and they don't currently make lots of money.

Joe (SoCal)
08-25-2016, 06:17 PM
They're a what? Ponzi scheme? They've got to spend lots of money to build these things and they don't currently make lots of money.

NASDAQ: TSLA - Aug 25, 7:04 PM EDT
220.96USD1.66 (0.75%)




Open
223.11


High
223.80


Low
220.77





Mkt cap
32.53B


P/E ratio
-


Div yield
-





Hell of a Ponzi scheme :D

peb
08-25-2016, 09:12 PM
You're not very good at math are you ?

About 9,000 DMC-12s were made before production halted in early 1983.

Tesla Motors (TSLA) 1Q 2016 Sales: 14,820 Model S, Model X Cars Were Delivered In First Three Months; Model S Sales Jumped 45%



Both companies completely dependent on government subsidies.



Delirean did have one thing going for it that Tesla does not: When Delorean came out, the auto industry was in bad shape.



Now: It is the most impressive industry around. Tesla will not be able to compete. Trying to disrupt an industry that I highly competitive, very efficient, continues to provide grew value to their customers.... That's a fools errand.

Brian Palmer
08-26-2016, 06:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vox78WUVtd8

Forget carrying anything on the roof, like skis or a kayak.

Paul Pless
08-26-2016, 06:10 AM
I can see Tesla licensing technology and supplying parts to bigger manufacturers.i can't even see that

Dan McCosh
08-26-2016, 09:08 AM
I can see Tesla owning and developing the fast charging supply chain and becoming the new Exxon/Mobile of the EV age. Developing the vehicles and charging stations along the way. Becoming a utility giant. Free electricity is a great business plan. I'm ready to sign up.

peb
08-26-2016, 09:24 AM
I can see Tesla owning and developing the fast charging supply chain and becoming the new Exxon/Mobile of the EV age. Developing the vehicles and charging stations along the way. Becoming a utility giant.



Maybe, but that's an uphill battle. Why would all the other car companies standardize for the proprietary charging technology that would be required by Tesla to gain a valid barrier to entry. Exxon /mobile and other gas retailers have very slim profit margins on their retail fuel sales. Why are convenience stores becoming nicer and bigger at all "gas stations"? Because you can't make enough money selling just gasoline.

The same will apply to charging stations, the electricity sales will give very low margins, unless there is some type of monopoly. I dont see that happening.



Here's the deal: People see EVs as the next big thing, and they very well may be. Tesla has aided the uptake of EVs immensely by coming out with realm cool cars. Good for them. But the Tesla hype cannot make for a long term business model. Transportation is an industry that is very mature, a well honed machine, that literally everyone uses. There are over a dozen, huge companies that make realm cool cars. All of them can bring to market an EV that can easily compete with anything Tesla developed. They have an automotive engineering history that is a huge advantage. And they have a supplier, distribution, service infrastructure that Tesla does not have, and believes they don't need. When evaluating new companies, the number one criteria is, do they have (or will they have) a moat? I do not see one for Tesla at all. Actually, none what so ever.



It will be a slow death for Tesla.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-26-2016, 09:31 AM
Tesla, this decades version of DeLorean.

Only if he can get a far right head of government to fund the purchase of a large quantity of cocaine.

Dan McCosh
08-26-2016, 09:35 AM
I can see Tesla licensing technology and supplying parts to bigger manufacturers. Tesla operates by buying parts and engineering from bigger manufacturers. What they supply is the brand and cache.

Paul Pless
08-26-2016, 09:38 AM
I can see Tesla owning and developing the fast charging supply chain and becoming the new Exxon/Mobile of the EV age. Developing the vehicles and charging stations along the way. Becoming a utility giant.When its time Exxon/Mobile will take the lead in distributing whatever's next in vehicle power supply. They are experts at not just getting oil out of the ground, but also in distributing it. Its unclear whether ev's will still require charging stations as they do in their current form in ten to twenty years. . .

B_B
08-26-2016, 02:12 PM
Tesla operates by buying parts and engineering from bigger manufacturers. What they supply is the brand and cache.
except for that whole 'battery' bit...gigafactory ain't no Sergio Marchionne project.

they've given up (if it ever was the plan) on being leaders in the electric car field, and are focusing on electricity storage - the cars, and electric panel installer purchase, are just ways to get people to buy their overpriced battery packs.

Dan McCosh
08-26-2016, 02:38 PM
except for that whole 'battery' bit...gigafactory ain't no Sergio Marchionne project.

they've given up (if it ever was the plan) on being leaders in the electric car field, and are focusing on electricity storage - the cars, and electric panel installer purchase, are just ways to get people to buy their overpriced battery packs. Tesla works with Panasonic on batteries. LG Chem, GM's partner, already has a gigafactory operating.

Paul Pless
08-26-2016, 02:43 PM
Doesn't Brownstown predate Tesla's battery factory by several years. The Volt was introduced in 2010 and went on sale in 2011, and GM has always made their own batteries for them.