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View Full Version : Tesla's autonomous driving mode hackable



Paul Pless
08-10-2016, 10:42 AM
Via hardware, by jamming its radar, sound, and visual sensors with inexpensive over the counter products.

amish rob
08-10-2016, 10:46 AM
I don't understand people. Nobody here wants a high speed rail, but they all want to get in a car that will drive them around.
I want no part of being in a robot car, thank you. I still don't even trust my gps in a boat! :)

Peace,
Robert

Paul Pless
08-10-2016, 10:50 AM
Nobody here wants a high speed rail, but they all want to get in a car that will drive them around.i want both actually, and more. . .

to compliment high speed rail I would like light commuter rail connecting inner cities to each other as well as their suburbs

an autonomous car that can drop me off at the front door step of where I need to be then go park itself in downtown Detroit or A2 would be great.

Too Little Time
08-10-2016, 11:27 AM
I don't understand people. Nobody here wants a high speed rail, but they all want to get in a car that will drive them around.
I want no part of being in a robot car, thank you. I still don't even trust my gps in a boat!
My wife thinks my driving could be improved. So I am in favor of robot cars.

High speed rail is not my idea of a good use of resources.

CWSmith
08-10-2016, 11:30 AM
I also want both. However, this story is right out of some cheap sci fi themes. I suppose I should not be surprised. I wonder what the fall back is when the sensors are blind? There must be one.

Paul Pless
08-10-2016, 11:31 AM
I wonder what the fall back is when the sensors are blind? There must be one.autonomous braking

John of Phoenix
08-10-2016, 11:34 AM
Never bet against the hackers.

CWSmith
08-10-2016, 11:38 AM
autonomous braking

Makes sense. Could be chaotic on the highway. Picture those same little t?rds who shine lasers at planes having fun from the overpass.

amish rob
08-10-2016, 12:02 PM
High speed rail really only makes sense in a big state, or interstate. Look at a map, and check out the drive from LA to Sacramento. Now, move that over to the Right Coast. It would be nice to go back to trains, too, and away from planes as much. Especially for "commuter" type travel.

Light rail is also awesome. I'm not so much car. I didn't own one before I was married, and still only rarely drive.


My oldest son, by the by, believes certain movies are propaganda released to prepare us for the future. Terminator, the Matrix, and Demolition Man, are all movies he cites often. Self driving cars are just the latest coincidental piece of evidence for his theory. I hope I'm gone before COLOSSUS takes over. :) Yes, my kids are very technology. Same kid is a computer master. Really.
They are always amazed when I actually touch a computer. :) This is a phone, I HAD to upgrade to...

Peace,
Robert

biga
08-10-2016, 12:40 PM
man, just think of all the fun possibilities with autonomous cars. one day you'll be able to get into a self driving car with facial recognition that will drop you off right at the entrance of the reeducation camp dealing with whatever governmental dissidence you have been displaying. no more waiting for you to drop yourself off in that manual vehicle!

Jim Bow
08-10-2016, 12:47 PM
I was at a craft store, acting like a dutiful grandfather, and came across rather large bagsful of mylar confetti. Picture a couple of hooligans throwing handfuls of that highly reflective stuff out their car windows in front of an autonomous car at speed. The mind boggles.

Canoeyawl
08-10-2016, 12:48 PM
I don't think "nobody" wants high speed rail.

I think there are a vociferous few that have a vested interest in the existing archaic system, and they are terrified of change.
Commonly referred to as Conservatives, it usually takes a disaster of some magnitude to change their minds. The attack on the twin towers did finally convince them that Bin Laden was serious, but at a high price. They think Trump will save them from the next debacle. God help us...

Hugh Conway
08-10-2016, 01:09 PM
I don't understand people. Nobody here wants a high speed rail, but they all want to get in a car that will drive them around.
I want no part of being in a robot car, thank you. I still don't even trust my gps in a boat! :)

What about the Hyperloop FUD?

Tesla seems to be running into the reality of the auto industry now. Car company's are big and capital intensive for a reason.

Paul Pless
08-10-2016, 01:12 PM
Tesla seems to be running into the reality of the auto industry now. Car company's are big and capital intensive for a reason.Should be apparent when even marques such as Bentley, Rolls, Aston, Jaguar, Porsche, and Ferrari can't make it as stand alone companies, without the support of much larger automotive corporate behemoths. . .

delecta
08-10-2016, 01:23 PM
Should be apparent when even marques such as Bentley, Rolls, Aston, Jaguar, Porsche, and Ferrari can't make it as stand alone companies, without the support of much larger automotive corporate behemoths. . .

Porsche owns VW.

Paul Pless
08-10-2016, 01:31 PM
Porsche owns VW.Right, but the ownership has a convoluted history, and Porsche as a marque would be uncompetitive without the engineering, manufacturing, and development support of VAG.

delecta
08-10-2016, 01:47 PM
Right, but the ownership has a convoluted history, and Porsche as a marque would be uncompetitive without the engineering, manufacturing, and development support of VAG.

Perhaps its the other way around. Considering a small sports car company, Porsche Ag managed to wrestle control of the VW group under the name of Porsche Se, basically its a family controlled business, as there is no one with VW as their last name.

So, Porsche controls and pays for all the R&D that you so eloquently ascribe to some huge conglomerate.

Hugh Conway
08-10-2016, 02:03 PM
Porsche owns VW.

VW AG owns the Porsche AG car manufacturing firm outright. And Porsche SE (the holding firm) owns a little more than half of VW. So I'd say the VW car company is controlling the Porsche car company. Which it wouldn't have gotten without it's VW share shorting machine it made a mint off of in the 00s. And the small crony world of German capitalism/state politics.

Which is neither here nor there in relation to Elon Musk being a huckster.

Too Little Time
08-10-2016, 02:05 PM
I don't think "nobody" wants high speed rail.

I think there are a vociferous few that have a vested interest in the existing archaic system, and they are terrified of change.
I think there are a vociferous few who have a vested interest in new systems.

I am in favor of a high speed system where I could drive my car on and off. Something following the interstates would be a good start. But the cost has to be less than the cost for me to drive. And the speed has to be higher than my driving. But that is not going to happen.

I don't fly much because it is cheaper for me to drive. My kids have different values and are willing to fly everywhere (as long as I move their luggage in our car). I think different values are more important drivers of change than vested interests.

Hugh Conway
08-10-2016, 02:08 PM
I am in favor of a high speed system where I could drive my car on and off. Something following the interstates would be a good start. But the cost has to be less than the cost for me to drive. And the speed has to be higher than my driving. But that is not going to happen..

I want puppies and rainbows. And a unicorn named Gus that poops magical flowers. But that's not going to happen either.

Paul Pless
08-10-2016, 02:14 PM
I think there are a vociferous few who have a vested interest in new systems.

I am in favor of a high speed system where I could drive my car on and off. Something following the interstates would be a good start. But the cost has to be less than the cost for me to drive. And the speed has to be higher than my driving. But that is not going to happen.

I don't fly much because it is cheaper for me to drive. My kids have different values and are willing to fly everywhere (as long as I move their luggage in our car). I think different values are more important drivers of change than vested interests.


I fly a lot, for the haul that I make, if you add in the total cost of driving, including maintenance, depreciation, etc etc. . . its a wash whether its cheaper to drive or fly; the personal time cost to me and the effect driving 865 miles one way has on me physically makes flying an advantage for me.


High speed rail will have to be built piecemeal and makes most economical sense for journeys of 75 miles to 225 miles or so. It makes sense to build them out East first and then through the Midwest to about Chicago - with maybe a few long runs from eastern hubs to St. Louis and Atlanta. Hi speed rail doesn't make sense for crossing the continent. . .

biga
08-10-2016, 02:16 PM
I want puppies and rainbows. And a unicorn named Gus that poops magical flowers. But that's not going to happen either.

i have a unicorn named Gus but he poops magical ice cream cones. sorry i couldn't help.

it'd be cool to get a high speed rail connecting some major areas. new york to la, detroit to nashville, nashville to dallas and orlando. start with that. add more later. might need a full length california high speed with 15-20 stops

amish rob
08-10-2016, 03:11 PM
I meant rail for here. San Diego to Sacramento is almost Detroit to Nashville. Of course, mass transit style transportation does need good local mass transit on either end to work. This could be a good place for driverless cars. We can automate taxi drivers out of a job, too. :)

Also, for commuter stuff, I meant short rides of a few hundred miles. Light rail stuff makes more sense, I think. For moving the most people most efficiently, that is, not for convenience or happiness quotient or what have you.

The only place trains really win is footprint. They can move a ton of people down a relatively narrow corridor.

Plus, as we transition to other fuel sources, it is important to remember electric trains are here already.

That said, my big goal in life is to have no keys at all. I'm down to three... Just so you know where my head is. :)

Peace,
Robert

Too Little Time
08-10-2016, 03:21 PM
I fly a lot, for the haul that I make, if you add in the total cost of driving, including maintenance, depreciation, etc etc. . . its a wash whether its cheaper to drive or fly; the personal time cost to me and the effect driving 865 miles one way has on me physically makes flying an advantage for me.

High speed rail will have to be built piecemeal and makes most economical sense for journeys of 75 miles to 225 miles or so. It makes sense to build them out East first and then through the Midwest to about Chicago - with maybe a few long runs from eastern hubs to St. Louis and Atlanta. Hi speed rail doesn't make sense for crossing the continent. . .
As I said it is personal preference rather than some interest vested in existing methods. I think you are flying/driving alone. Anytime I take my wife on a trip driving is a better option at least for 865 miles (12 hours of driving). Of course, there are a number of other issues including when the flight leaves, how long the stops are, the distance you need to drive after landing, and how much stuff you are hauling.

You bring up 75-225 miles. 75 miles is about 1 hour by car. 1/2 hour by high speed rail plus time to get to the train, time waiting for the train, and time to get to your destination. Pretty much a wash in time. $10-15 for operating my car might make the car a better option. 225 miles has a bit different economics but requires trains to run more often than is likely other than on the East coast.


I have taken BART with my daughter and the rest of the group. It is nice. But I am sure it was not the cheapest method, but it was convenient.

Canoeyawl
08-10-2016, 04:14 PM
i have a unicorn named Gus but he poops magical ice cream cones. sorry i couldn't help.



So, do you eat those ice cream cones?
That could explain a lot...

skuthorp
08-10-2016, 04:24 PM
I understand there is a small problem with Physics, microseconds and GPS positioning that may become relevant.
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/1061/why-does-gps-depend-on-relativity

oznabrag
08-10-2016, 04:44 PM
I meant rail for here. San Diego to Sacramento is almost Detroit to Nashville. Of course, mass transit style transportation does need good local mass transit on either end to work. This could be a good place for driverless cars. We can automate taxi drivers out of a job, too. :)

Also, for commuter stuff, I meant short rides of a few hundred miles. Light rail stuff makes more sense, I think. For moving the most people most efficiently, that is, not for convenience or happiness quotient or what have you.

The only place trains really win is footprint. They can move a ton of people down a relatively narrow corridor.

Plus, as we transition to other fuel sources, it is important to remember electric trains are here already.

That said, my big goal in life is to have no keys at all. I'm down to three... Just so you know where my head is. :)

Peace,
Robert

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7hmbbDUHA1qarwhv.jpg:D

amish rob
08-10-2016, 05:02 PM
Oz, you lost me. Please explain. I'm sure it's funny, I just don't know the reference. A movie? Help! :d

oznabrag
08-10-2016, 05:18 PM
Oz, you lost me. Please explain. I'm sure it's funny, I just don't know the reference. A movie? Help! :d

That's James Spader as Graham Dalton in Sex, Lies and Videotape, Steven Soderburgh's 1989 breakout film.

Great movie. Spader won the Best Actor at Cannes for that performance.

Anyway, I always thought this was one of the best lines from that movie:


Graham (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000652/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): No, it's just, I, you know, I just think - right now I have one key and everything I own is in the car, and I just... I like that, you know? I mean, I just, if I get an apartment, that two keys, if I... get a job, you know, I might have to open or close, that's more keys, you know, buy some stuff, I'm afraid it's gonna get ripped off, or something, and I get more keys, and I just, I, you know, I just like having the one key, it's clean.

amish rob
08-10-2016, 05:29 PM
Ha ha. Exactly!
My grandpa never had a job, except being a soldier in The War, or owned a key. His truck had a push button start just like the tractor.

Thankfully I have always been a quirky enough artist type I have fudged my way through some heavy jobs without keys.
I've never broached four in my life. One of my three now is the spare from my daughter's diary. When she still had a cute little locking type...

Besides, I always figured anyone what "broke" in would take to feeling sorry for us, and maybe leave a ten spot and some canned goods. :)

I'm gonna have to watch that film, now, just to see that scene. Thanks for 'splaining, it was funny, I was right! :)

Peace,
Robert

The Bigfella
08-10-2016, 07:29 PM
I want autonomous driving cars on the road as soon as possible. It's got to be better than all the cars out there now, with the "drivers" busy with their heads buried in their phones.