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Norman Bernstein
07-26-2016, 12:20 PM
He's got the ethics and morals of a garden slug. Fortunately, this time, Trump, who claims he only wins, has lost:


While developer Donald Trump was busy getting the Republican Party’s presidential nomination this week, he was losing big in a Miami-Dade County courtroom.Circuit Court Judge Jorge Cueto,presiding over a lawsuit related to unpaid bills brought by a local paint store against the Trump National Doral Miami golf resort, ordered the billionaire politician’s company to pay the Doral-based mom-and-pop shop nearly $300,000 in attorney’s fees.

All because, according to the lawsuit, Trump allegedly tried to stiff The Paint Spot on its last payment of $34,863 on a $200,000 contract for paint used in the renovation of the home of golf’s famed Blue Monster two years ago.

Trump National’s insistence that it had “paid enough” for the paint despite a contract, according to the lawsuit, caused The Paint Spot to slap a lien on the property and Cueto to order the foreclosure sale of the resort.

In time, Donald Trump’s company got the judge to cancel the June 28 courthouse auction after it placed the $34,000 in escrow, and the case was put on hold while Trump National’s owner, Trump Endeavor, considered an appeal.

But the lien remained.

And Cueto was asked to rule on the fees for The Paint Spot’s three $500-an-hour attorneys and two $150-an-hour paralegals that lawsuit loser Trump Endeavor will have to pay.

The golf company, according to the court file, objected to the hourly rates because it paid its lawyers $400 an hour, according to court records.

This week, Cueto ruled that the fees were reasonable, and then some.

First, he ruled Trump should pay for nearly 500 hours of legal work, since the store’s legal team had to prepare for a trial that never took place.

Then, Cueto tacked on a 75 percent “risk” fee, partly because the store’s lawyers took the risk that they would never be paid if they lost.

Total: $282,949 and 91 cents, including copying and expert testimony.

“I’m happy I have a judgment,” said Juan Carlos Enriquez, owner of The Paint Spot. “But he [Trump] hasn’t paid yet.

“You know how he says he’ll surround himself with the greatest people if he is president? In this case, he might not be surrounded by the right people.”

Trump bought the property in 2012 for $150 million then launched into a major renovation.

Alan Garten, Trump’s in-house lawyer, didn’t return a call for comment.

David G
07-26-2016, 12:27 PM
Are you suggesting that he makes a practice of slimy, underhanded, bullying tactics in business... against the laws of our land?

Yeah... it seems not just true, but incontrovertibly true. Loser!

Tom Wilkinson
07-26-2016, 12:43 PM
And yet some "little guys", small business owners, will still back him like crazy.

Rum_Pirate
07-26-2016, 12:46 PM
I agree 100% with action of the 'The Paint Spot'.

Now to head back to court to make Trump hand over the money.

Norman Bernstein
07-26-2016, 01:21 PM
And yet some "little guys", small business owners, will still back him like crazy.

I'm shocked... I say, SHOCKED... that people will often vote against their own economic interests (snicker)


I agree 100% with action of the 'The Paint Spot'.

Now to head back to court to make Trump hand over the money.

The problem is that this is not an isolated instance.... MANY other vendors, contractors, and small businessmen have been screwed by Trump this way... to say nothing of the hundreds or thousands that were screwed in his bankruptcies (Elizabeth Warren says there were six of them, not just four).

It absolutely boggles the mind to think that there are people who would support a man without a conscience, who looks at others' misfortunes, as a money making opportunity for himself. It was bad enough that he bragged incessantly about how much money her PERSONALLY made in each of his bankruptcies.... and it was bad enough that he viewed the collapse of the housing bubble as yet another money-making opportunity for himself... but this self-proclaimed multi-billionaire, cheating a small businessman out of a seemingly insignificant $34K... less than he probably spends on jet fuel, per hour, flying his massive 757 all over the place.. is well beyond the pale.

It's got nothing to do with whether he's 'smart', or 'tough'.... he just doesn't have a baseline of humanity in his soul, an attribute I'd want to see in ANY President.

Keith Wilson
07-26-2016, 01:30 PM
One more example (source (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/trump-deals-from-strength-with-usa-freedom-kids.html)):


Trump Deals From Strength With ‘USA Freedom Kids,’ Crushes Them
By Jonathan Chait

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/26/26-usa-freedom-kids.w529.h352.jpg


If there is a secret to Donald Trump’s success in business, after (1) inherit a large fortune and (2) use the media to create a famous brand, it’s (3) don’t pay people the money you owe them. You’d be surprised how much more profitable it can be to have people supply you with goods and services and not have to pay them anything than the alternative of reimbursing them at the agreed-upon price. He has famously used bankruptcy to burn the people who have been foolish enough to loan him money, and then explained that it was fair because they were “sharks.” He has also applied this method to his dealings with non-sharks — stiffing contractors is a cornerstone of the Trump business model (as USA Today and The Wall Street Journal, among others, have found).

And Trump doesn’t quite admit that he habitually refuses to honor his contracts, but he doesn’t exactly deny it in the strongest terms, either. Instead, Trump presents his lack of business ethics as a qualification for office. “My whole life I’ve been greedy, greedy, greedy. I’ve grabbed all the money I could get,” he said at a debate last year. “I’m so greedy. But now I want to be greedy for the United States.”

The “USA Freedom Kids,” a cheese-ball youth performance troupe, appeared at a Trump rally last summer and became an instant sensation, partly because of the contrast between the adorableness of the performers and the quasi-fascistic undertones of their lyrics (such as “Deal from strength or get crushed every time”). Jeff Popick, the group’s (adult) manager, told Claire Landsbaum he was attracted to Trump not only for reasons of customer synergy but also personal conviction — “[Trump] knows what he's doing, and he makes the right decisions,” Popick explained.

You’ll never guess what happened next. Yes, Trump refused to pay the group for its time and expenses, reports Philip Bump. First, the USA Kids were told they could have a free table to sell CDs instead of $2,500, they accepted the deal, and no such table was provided. Then they were asked to fly to Iowa to appear at Trump’s rally to help veterans, and not only were they not paid, but Trump failed to reimburse the cost of their travel. Popick is rethinking his previous analysis of the campaign:

"At this point, my position is that I have no position, really," Popick said. "What he's done to my group or what he's not done for my group doesn't necessarily make him the best candidate, it doesn't make him the worst candidate. I still have to mull that over. He might still be the best candidate as president of the United States -- or not."
"What I think I've learned," Popick added, "is that I'm not qualified to be a political commentator."

Alternatively, you could say Popick’s original beliefs about Trump have been vindicated. He didn’t deal with Trump from strength, and he got crushed.

Norman Bernstein
07-26-2016, 01:40 PM
"At this point, my position is that I have no position, really," Popick said. "What he's done to my group or what he's not done for my group doesn't necessarily make him the best candidate, it doesn't make him the worst candidate. I still have to mull that over. He might still be the best candidate as president of the United States -- or not."

"What I think I've learned," Popick added, "is that I'm not qualified to be a political commentator."

See how amazing it is? The guy and his kids group... in support of Trump... get SCREWED by him... and he's STILL incapable of facing the truth.

What a disgusting scumball of a man.

Rum_Pirate
07-26-2016, 01:47 PM
I'm shocked... I say, SHOCKED... that people will often vote against their own economic interests (snicker)



The problem is that this is not an isolated instance.... MANY other vendors, contractors, and small businessmen have been screwed by Trump this way... to say nothing of the hundreds or thousands that were screwed in his bankruptcies (Elizabeth Warren says there were six of them, not just four).

It absolutely boggles the mind to think that there are people who would support a man without a conscience, who looks at others' misfortunes, as a money making opportunity for himself. It was bad enough that he bragged incessantly about how much money her PERSONALLY made in each of his bankruptcies.... and it was bad enough that he viewed the collapse of the housing bubble as yet another money-making opportunity for himself... but this self-proclaimed multi-billionaire, cheating a small businessman out of a seemingly insignificant $34K... less than he probably spends on jet fuel, per hour, flying his massive 757 all over the place.. is well beyond the pale.

It's got nothing to do with whether he's 'smart', or 'tough'.... he just doesn't have a baseline of humanity in his soul, an attribute I'd want to see in ANY President.


Yes, agreed it is not an isolated instance.
In my limited experiences, I do not like doing business with certain Americans.
As a result of those experiences, I now require money up-front.
Sad but necessary as trust and goodwill have been tossed out of the window by them.

Norman Bernstein
07-26-2016, 01:54 PM
In my limited experiences, I do not like doing business with certain Americans.

I doubt that there's anything unique about Americans, when it comes to sleazy and unethical businessmen. Right now, I'm working for a British client; if they decided not to pay my invoices, I would have NO recourse whatsoever. Fortunately, they have been (so far) very honorable people, paying my invoices by wire transfer, within 48 hours of receipt.... which is frankly amazing.

But the sad truth is that NO small businessman has any practical recourse against a big company or person who wants to screw them. The legal expenses alone, in trying to press a civil suit, can evaporate any hope of being made whole... I know this, from personal experience, having sued a large company in Federal Court for failure to pay contractual royalties on software I wrote for them. I spent $25,000 in legal fees, to get just short of a trial (which I had VERY high expectations of winning), when they offered to settle for a fraction of their liability... and my lawyer informed me that going to trial would risk another $25,000 in expenses. I had NO choice, but to accept pennies on the dollar.

The American business system does depend on a certain level of trust, because the courts cannot provide anything remotely like a level playing field, when there's a dispute between a small businessman and a fabulously wealthy individual or huge corporation. The sleazeballs of this world, like Donald Trump, know this, which is why they know they can get away with screwing the little guy.

Why would anyone want a man like this to actually be President?

CWSmith
07-26-2016, 01:59 PM
Can you imagine a sitting president who is repeatedly taken to court over unpaid bills? What an embarrassment that will be.

Gerarddm
07-26-2016, 03:01 PM
Saw a video of the architect who designed one of Drumpf's big golf resort buildings, and was stiffed by Drumpf so badly that he almost lost his business. First Drumpf refused to pay the architect fee, saying after the building was completed that it was too expensive. Then he leaned on the architect to accept substantially less, and when the architect reluctantly agreed, reneged on that too. What a miserable creature Drumpf is.

And yet his voters just don't care. I think they are missing large chunks of their brains to plaque. My neighbor heard an interview with a delegate at the RNC who said that she definitely had concerns about Drumpf having his finger on the nuclear button, but was going to vote for him anyway. ( ! )

Migod.

CWSmith
07-26-2016, 05:47 PM
Art of the Deal my @ss! He's a common thief.

George Jung
07-26-2016, 06:44 PM
Ghost written, and made up. Author regrets it.

Have you seen 'Braindead'? Pretty good explanation.

Reynard38
07-26-2016, 07:08 PM
"USA Freedom kids" seems appropriate. They work for free!

The Drumph voters I know, and I know and work with a lot of them, aren't voting for The Oompa Loompa, they are voting against Clinton.

They will tell you so.

If the Dems had picked a candidate that didn't inspire such revulsion they'd have a landslide.

leikec
07-26-2016, 07:37 PM
If the Dems had picked a candidate that didn't inspire such revulsion they'd have a landslide.

By modern standards it will be a landslide, even with Hillary running. Trump is going to get whipsawed by his own mouth. The general election is a very different thing from the primaries, the debates matter, the town halls matter, the speeches matter, and the electorate is different.

Hillary is bland, and she'll say stupid things (as do most politicians) but she's methodical, tenacious, and thorough. Trump is totally out of his element from this moment on.

I'll say it again--Trump is going to get creamed.

Jeff C

Stiletto
07-26-2016, 07:45 PM
By modern standards it will be a landslide, even with Hillary running. Trump is going to get whipsawed by his own mouth. The general election is a very different thing from the primaries, the debates matter, the town halls matter, the speeches matter, and the electorate is different.

Hillary is bland, and she'll say stupid things (as do most politicians) but she's methodical, tenacious, and thorough. Trump is totally out of his element from this moment on.

I'll say it again--Trump is going to get creamed.

Jeff C

I hope you are right.

Garret
07-26-2016, 07:55 PM
So - is everyone else looking forward to seeing how SkyBlue will spin this? Should be good! ;)

skuthorp
07-26-2016, 08:04 PM
Many years ago I had a client who refused to pay. I also had some friends with sledge hammers. He paid.

Reynard38
07-26-2016, 08:13 PM
Guess that won't work with secret service protection. If Drumph owes you $$ you might be SOL.

Rum_Pirate
07-26-2016, 10:43 PM
Many years ago I had a client who refused to pay. I also had some friends with sledge hammers. He paid.

I have a person that owes me money. Is there a charge?

NB Above said totally tongue-in-cheek. :ycool:

Vince Brennan
07-26-2016, 10:58 PM
Say what you will, and let it be as accurate as you can make it, Noyes, Geng, Blue, Sully, Brad, Rod, etc will decry and deny as often and as stridently as possible the reality of Der Drumpf's complete unsuitability for any office higher than Compactor Operator for the Streets Department of Scotland, N.D. Heck, I wouldn't trust that *guy* to complete a contract equitably... or at all.