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Norman Bernstein
07-06-2016, 01:22 PM
Hard to tell, but the video is certainly incredibly damning.

This guy had already been wrestled to the ground by two cops, was lying on his back... when one of the cops draws his weapon and fires, multiple times.

To be honest, most of these cellphone videos are rarely clear enough to be able to make a judgment. Complicating things: the man had a gun in his pocket, although Louisiana is an 'open carry' state (I don't know if Lousiana's 'open carry' law requires a gun owner to have the gun visible, and in a holster, or not). Witnesses said that the man was not reaching for his gun, when he was shot at close range.... in the chest and back.

Watch the video, and draw your own conclusion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alton-sterling-video_us_577c78e7e4b09b4c43c18f1b?section=

Ian McColgin
07-06-2016, 02:40 PM
You need to be white to be disarmed and taken alive into custody.

Dan McCosh
07-06-2016, 02:42 PM
Conclusion is that I can't see much.

Paul Pless
07-06-2016, 02:45 PM
Complicating things: further complicating things is both cops were wearing body cams, yet mysteriously neither camera contained any recording of the incident when they were downloaded. . .

hokiefan
07-06-2016, 03:28 PM
further complicating things is both cops were wearing body cams, yet mysteriously neither camera contained any recording of the incident when they were downloaded. . .

Of course both cameras malfunctioned just when they were needed. And cops wonder why people don't trust them. :pmad:

Phillip Allen
07-06-2016, 04:19 PM
further complicating things is both cops were wearing body cams, yet mysteriously neither camera contained any recording of the incident when they were downloaded. . .

is that like when the gun cameras malfunctioned at Waco?

Canoeyawl
07-06-2016, 04:22 PM
Of course both cameras malfunctioned just when they were needed. And cops wonder why people don't trust them. :pmad:

There is other video, but it was confiscated by police at the scene. Would you expect anything less?

skuthorp
07-06-2016, 04:27 PM
………….and has already mysteriously disappeared………...

Phillip Allen
07-06-2016, 04:34 PM
………….and has already mysteriously disappeared………...

nothing mysterious at all

Phillip Allen
07-06-2016, 04:50 PM
hard to tell, heck! ain't you the same bunch who knew exactly what happened to Travon? So, why change your stripes now?

Ian McColgin
07-06-2016, 04:58 PM
The video in the OP is clear. The suspect was down and under control. He was shot for no legitimate law enforcement reason.

Paul Pless
07-06-2016, 05:00 PM
The video in the OP is clear. The suspect was down and under control. He was shot for no legitimate law enforcement reason.far be it from me to defend the police, but the video that we have seen is not that clear

CWSmith
07-06-2016, 05:37 PM
The video in the OP is clear. The suspect was down and under control. He was shot for no legitimate law enforcement reason.

Agreed! It was murder by a coward with a badge. At least one cop needs to go to jail for 20 years.

The video on the nightly news was clear.

Too Little Time
07-06-2016, 07:01 PM
The video in the OP is clear. The suspect was down and under control. He was shot for no legitimate law enforcement reason.

A few hours ago I read a good analysis of the death. The writer saw both videos.

His conclusion was that when one officer shouted "gun" indicating that there was a gun in the pocket that the other officer may have concluded a gun in the hand.

He further concluded that the shooting was legal, but that it should not have happened. He suggested that better training in defusing situations might be in order.

I would post a link, but I could not find it. It was at one of the 4 opinion sites I visit - WSJ, NY Times, Washington Post, and Bloomberg.

Ian McColgin
07-06-2016, 08:12 PM
There are no examples I could find to the same officers dealing with the same overt acts of a black versus a white suspect, but we have national statistical evidence that white suspects are more likely to live through a physical confrontation with the police. We also have very good evidence that most people, white and black, when viewing black men and white men doing the same thing are more likely to regard the black men as a greater threat. This has also been confirmed by observing pupil dilation, blood pressure and in me elevated testosterone.

The problem is that police are not trained in how to overcome our societal prejudice and thus all too many authentically see a black man as more of threat. The reason is simple and obvious. The solutions are complex and difficult.

wizbang 13
07-06-2016, 08:56 PM
um hello...he was selling cd's.

Rum_Pirate
07-06-2016, 09:01 PM
There are no examples I could find to the same officers dealing with the same overt acts of a black versus a white suspect, but we have national statistical evidence that white suspects are more likely to live through a physical confrontation with the police. We also have very good evidence that most people, white and black, when viewing black men and white men doing the same thing are more likely to regard the black men as a greater threat. This has also been confirmed by observing pupil dilation, blood pressure and in me elevated testosterone.

The problem is that police are not trained in how to overcome our societal prejudice and thus all too many authentically see a black man as more of threat. The reason is simple and obvious. The solutions are complex and difficult.

Is that a typo?

Tom Wilkinson
07-06-2016, 09:01 PM
um hello...he was selling cd's.
A good thing to keep in mind, given the outcome. Seems like the force used was over the top prior to the shooting.

Rum_Pirate
07-06-2016, 09:10 PM
um hello...he was selling cd's.


From the link on the OP


Baton Rouge Police said the shooting happened around 12:30 a.m. after officers were called to the scene following reports of a man carrying a gun, threatening others and selling CDs in front of the store.

I think the "carrying a gun, threatening others" were the major reasons for the arrival of the Police.

Ian McColgin
07-06-2016, 09:14 PM
Yes, typo. But since it's true of almost all men who have not dealt with their own racism, it was factual as written in 1967. I hope that's no longer true.

McMike
07-07-2016, 05:08 PM
A few hours ago I read a good analysis of the death. The writer saw both videos.

His conclusion was that when one officer shouted "gun" indicating that there was a gun in the pocket that the other officer may have concluded a gun in the hand.

He further concluded that the shooting was legal, but that it should not have happened. He suggested that better training in defusing situations might be in order.

I would post a link, but I could not find it. It was at one of the 4 opinion sites I visit - WSJ, NY Times, Washington Post, and Bloomberg.

Upon seeing the second video, which is too graphic to post a link to here, it was murder. There are no longer any excuses, to many murders by cops.

There needs to be a new federal standard created and meet by all police officers, one that does not profile for the bull headed bullies but for level headed, educated, good people. All existing officers should need to meet these new standards or fired.

McMike
07-07-2016, 05:11 PM
From the link on the OP



I think the "carrying a gun, threatening others" were the major reasons for the arrival of the Police.


Was he threatening because he felt threatened? Guess we'll never know now.

If he were white would you have even heard the story? Nope, he would have been arrested, slapped on the wrist, home eating dinner with his family tonight.

skuthorp
07-07-2016, 05:12 PM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?209129-Another-police-murder-RIP-Orlando-Castille

Rum_Pirate
07-07-2016, 05:45 PM
Based on the limited information that I have seen (not just this issue) I would be very reluctant to become a member of the police force and be on duty that required traffic stops and responding to assaults etc.

Those police officers must be under a lot of stress/worry/concern/call it what you will, every time they get out of their vehicle to apprehend/ticket/arrest/etc deal with somebody, knowing that in a couple minutes they could be killed in the line of duty.

I am not surprised that there are trigger happy fingers.

However I am not supporting twitchy fingers or justifying the killings, but I wonder what can really be done to reduce (it will never be eliminated) these shootings.

Plus how do the Police regain the respect of the general public?

CWSmith
07-07-2016, 05:48 PM
The governor has invited (asked) the FBI in to investigate the shooting. I think this is a remarkably good idea.

Dave Gray
07-07-2016, 06:09 PM
This kind of comment from the DA is interesting. A state authorized killing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/baton-rouge-louisiana-alton-sterling-police-shooting-death-protests/

District Attorney Hillar Moore said Lake and Salamoni may have acted within their rights.
"This is potentially a state authorized killing," Moore said. "It gives law enforcement officers the authority and mandates them to kill when in defense of themselves or others."

McMike
07-07-2016, 06:23 PM
Based on the limited information that I have seen (not just this issue) I would be very reluctant to become a member of the police force and be on duty that required traffic stops and responding to assaults etc.

Those police officers must be under a lot of stress/worry/concern/call it what you will, every time they get out of their vehicle to apprehend/ticket/arrest/etc deal with somebody, knowing that in a couple minutes they could be killed in the line of duty.

I am not surprised that there are trigger happy fingers.

However I am not supporting twitchy fingers or justifying the killings, but I wonder what can really be done to reduce (it will never be eliminated) these shootings.

Plus how do the Police regain the respect of the general public?

Start with not hiring the type of brutish and emotionally weak personality that is prone to cracking under pressure and then consider banning hand guns. I would not want to be a cop with all the guns that exist in our society, another casualty of the 2nd amendment.

Clearly though, there is a racial component to all of this that needs to be addressed, clearly cops are murdering black folks on a regular basis and getting away with it.

CWSmith
07-07-2016, 06:26 PM
This kind of comment from the DA is interesting. A state authorized killing.

The decision to bring in the FBI looks better by the hour.

Dave Gray
07-07-2016, 06:28 PM
While I understand what the DA was attempting to say, he said it all wrong. Brings to mind the term "acceptable collateral damage".

Daniel Noyes
07-07-2016, 06:39 PM
Based on the limited information that I have seen (not just this issue) I would be very reluctant to become a member of the police force and be on duty that required traffic stops and responding to assaults etc.

Those police officers must be under a lot of stress/worry/concern/call it what you will, every time they get out of their vehicle to apprehend/ticket/arrest/etc deal with somebody, knowing that in a couple minutes they could be killed in the line of duty.

I am not surprised that there are trigger happy fingers.

However I am not supporting twitchy fingers or justifying the killings, but I wonder what can really be done to reduce (it will never be eliminated) these shootings.

Plus how do the Police regain the respect of the general public?


the 911 call that initiated the police encounter was allegedly in regard to "a man threatening others with a gun"

the gun found on his person was reported to be in his possesion illegally, reportedly he was barred from owning a gun due to previous sex crimes.

CWSmith
07-07-2016, 06:57 PM
the 911 call that initiated the police encounter was allegedly in regard to "a man threatening others with a gun"

the gun found on his person was reported to be in his possesion illegally, reportedly he was barred from owning a gun due to previous sex crimes.

There is a stupidity to him carrying a gun. Then again, that goes for most civilians. Resisting the police was also monumentally stupid.

I still don't think that any of that justifies him getting shot.

McMike
07-07-2016, 06:58 PM
the 911 call that initiated the police encounter was allegedly in regard to "a man threatening others with a gun"

the gun found on his person was reported to be in his possesion illegally, reportedly he was barred from owning a gun due to previous sex crimes.

We're the cops aware of this? No? Murder.

Ian McColgin
07-07-2016, 07:05 PM
Police are called upon to make instant decisions based on threat. It's a simple fact of US society that when people, black or white and men or women, view the same scene played out by black men and by white men, measures of perceiving a threat such as pupil dilation and hormone levels will be higher on viewing the blacks.

This is the flat problem: Most US people see black men as a greater threat. If police only reflect society, if we decline to train them to overcome social racism and if we continue to not hold them responsible for responding as average citizens would, we commit to continuing the astonishing number of ways men can be legally killed while black.

Simple problem that's in fact incredibly subtle and complex to overcome. Denying the racism of the black incarceration rate and the black death rate at the hands of police is a very good way to keep the problem at its current high level.

Old Dryfoot
07-07-2016, 07:29 PM
If the US was not a country where every single person is potentially packing a handgun, your police might not be so jumpy.

Just sayin'. . .

sean27
07-08-2016, 01:18 AM
If the US was not a country where every single person is potentially packing a handgun, your police might not be so jumpy.

Just sayin'. . .

Nah, our police need no incentive like that, being black is enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l6iu72U40k

skuthorp
07-08-2016, 04:44 AM
………….and now you reap the whirlwind………..

But I guess that's the price of freedom too eh?