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View Full Version : Do you think Trump should be soliciting contributions from foreign politicians?



ljb5
06-29-2016, 06:10 PM
Here's a very strange story. (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-fundraising-emails-foreign-members-parliament)

After being embarrassed by his pathetic fundraising last month, Trump is sending out a blitz of emails asking supporters to send him money.

Oddly, members of Parliament in England, Australia, Iceland, Denmark and Finland have received these emails. According to some reports, it's every member of the Australian Parliament. Several MPs have complained that they're getting multiple emails.


"Members of Parliament are being bombarded by electronic communications from Team Trump on behalf of somebody called Donald Trump," Sir Roger Gale said on Tuesday, according to Politics Home. "Mr Speaker, Iím all in favour of free speech but I donít see why colleagues on either side of the House should be subjected to intemperate spam." (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-fundraising-british-members-parliament)

Campaign finance laws prohibit Trump from accepting money from foreign nationals, so it begs the question: Is he flaunting the law, or is he just really, really bad at the really simple stuff?

My theory is that he (and his kids) really don't know what they're doing, but they are so narcissistic and arrogant that they can't ask for help from the RNC or professional campaign managers. One of Trump's arguments is that he 'hires the best'... but time and time again, we see him surrounded by incompetence.

Ian McColgin
06-29-2016, 06:22 PM
It's a felony.

So far only punishable by the mockery most of those receiving these solicitations have tossed back at Trump.

C. Ross
06-29-2016, 06:25 PM
Good God. This isn't "the best", or the Varsity, or the JV. This is the freshman team. A high school freshman team.

Arizona Bay
06-29-2016, 06:27 PM
Arrogance knows no bounds


Scottish MP Natalie McGarry's reply:

Dear Donald J. Trump Jr.

Quite why you think it appropriate to write emails to UK parliamentarians with a begging bowl for your fatherís repugnant campaign is completely beyond me.

Given his rhetoric on migrants, refugees and immigration, it seems quite extraordinary that he would be asking foreign nationals for money; especially people who view his dangerous divisiveness with horror.

The U.S. elections are a matter for the American people, but I do send my hope that they reject your father fundamentally at the ballot box, not just to protect and improve the cohesion in society, to stop his corrosive othering of immigrants and for the protection of hard fought womenís rights in the U.S. but also, selfishly, for world security, and international relations. The thought of his reactionary type of politics and apparent ignorance of world affairs having access to a seat at the world table is both surreal, and terrifying.

The above is a long way to say No, and do not contact me again.
Sincerely,

Chris Smith porter maine
06-29-2016, 06:39 PM
I think it is his best choice, the RNC does not seem to want to help him much, so what if it is illegal, as boat fix claims the connected can get out of anything.

Canoeyawl
06-29-2016, 06:43 PM
Someone, just anyone of those foreign nationals should send him a check...

Then there will be an illegal contribution and the fun will begin.

Gerarddm
06-29-2016, 07:25 PM
^ Good point. The law is probably it's a crime to ACCEPT foreign money, not troll for it.

LeeG
06-29-2016, 09:32 PM
Bizarre

ShagRock
06-29-2016, 10:14 PM
If I send him a Loonie in the mail, will I be jailed.

Garret
06-29-2016, 10:17 PM
If I send him a Loonie in the mail, will I be jailed.

Not now that Trudeau's in power (ducks & runs)

Ian McColgin
06-29-2016, 10:19 PM
[IMc - Yep, just the solicitation is unlawful.]

Trump Slapped With FEC Complaint For ‘Illegally’ Soliciting Foreign Money

by Rachel Stockman | 12:50 pm, June 29th, 2016

LawNewz.com*has learned a*nonprofit, nonpartisan group, The Campaign Legal Center, has filed a federal complaint against Donald Trump for allegedly illegally soliciting money from foreign nationals to fund his presidential campaign.

“Donald J. Trump’s presidential campaign committee is violating black-letter federal law by sending campaign fundraising emails to foreign nationals — including foreign politicians — in at least Iceland, Scotland, Australia and Britain,” the group said in a statement. *The group filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission highlighting this violation.

“If the FEC fails to take action on our complaint, it could send a message that Trump and other candidates have the green light**to fundraise overseas,” said Paul Ryan, the deputy executive director of The Campaign Legal Center.

The complaint contends*that this month, Trump’s*campaign sent dozens of prominent Icelandic, Scottish, Australian and British politicians fundraising emails seeking donations. Trump was likely*trying to drum up support*after*the recent ‘Brexit’ vote in which the U.K. voted to leave the European Union. In fact, the group says when Trump was in Scotland promoting his golf course, members of the parliament received emails urging them to donate.

LawNewz.com*reached out to Trump’s campaign for comment but have not heard back. We will update this post as we get more information.

If the allegations are true, federal law is pretty clear on this (See number 2):*
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/breaking-donald-trump-slapped-with-complaint-for-illegally-soliciting-money-from-foreign-nationals/

ljb5
06-29-2016, 10:29 PM
OK, college boy.

You're supposed to know what 'begging the question' means.

You're also supposed to know the difference between 'flaunt' and 'flout'.

I only bring it up because I'm really bored with hearing what a worthless sack of garbage Donald Trump is.:D

Touchť

Gerarddm
06-29-2016, 10:30 PM
Looks like I was wrong. It is illegal for them to merely solicit a contribution.

It is so blatant I wonder how the FEC or (even ) the FBI could look away. It is so black and white, surely there must be repercussions, or what's a law for?

Rigadog
06-29-2016, 10:37 PM
Since he's always right, this must be wrong.

ljb5
07-01-2016, 06:40 PM
According to this report. (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/welp-that-s-weird-but-of-course-it-is)

The Trump campaign is still sending out emails soliciting money from foreign politicians.

Even after it has been reported in the media, some of the recipients have complained and two groups have filed ethics complaints with the FEC.

He's still doing it.

Not only that, but some of the foreign recipients report they are also getting emails from a pro-Trump super-PAC on the same email accounts.

It is a violation of federal law for campaigns and super-PACs to coordinate their activities, and that certainly includes sharing email lists.

Too Little Time
07-01-2016, 07:38 PM
It is a violation of federal law for campaigns and super-PACs to coordinate their activities, and that certainly includes sharing email lists.
They could be obtaining the email lists from the same source.

Garret
07-01-2016, 08:09 PM
They could be obtaining the email lists from the same source.

That would explain the same to address - not being from the same from address. IOW - they are using the same email account for Trump & the PAC - clearly a violation.

But remember that this is the man who said he could shoot someone in Times Square & no one would prosecute him. Love to see that bluff called.

Daniel Noyes
07-01-2016, 08:19 PM
Good God. This isn't "the best", or the Varsity, or the JV. This is the freshman team. A high school freshman team.

Freshman... we'll take that over Criminal any day! Looks better than the Attorneys General having a clandestine meeting with Bill Clinton while heading up an investigation of Hillary... that looks Criminal.

http://sharing.thecwtucson.com/shareknxv/photo/2016/06/29/16x9/Loretta_Lynch_and_Bill_Clinton_meet_in_P_0_4131506 7_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

Paul Pless
07-01-2016, 08:30 PM
Freshman... we'll take that over Criminal any day!Do you not have any idea how idiotic this statement is?

LeeG
07-01-2016, 09:17 PM
OH Trump, you're better than Sarah Palin.

ljb5
07-01-2016, 09:38 PM
They could be obtaining the email lists from the same source.

They could be, but that would have to be a pretty low-quality and irresponsible source. And an odd coincidence.


That would explain the same to address - not being from the same from address. IOW - they are using the same email account for Trump & the PAC - clearly a violation.

My understanding is that they came from different email addresses.

ljb5
07-01-2016, 09:50 PM
Freshman... we'll take that over Criminal any day! Looks better than the Attorneys General having a clandestine meeting with Bill Clinton while heading up an investigation of Hillary... that looks Criminal.



Actually, Lynch is not heading up the investigation.

You should read this article. It's quite an interesting bit of history.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/watergate/articles/102173-2.htm

Garret
07-02-2016, 07:29 AM
Garret, I grant you that both the language LJ used and the language in the linked article could be clearer, but I don't think they are using the same email for campaign and PAC.

Still a federal crime, and I hope he goes down hard for it.

Self-awareness?

Nah.

Got it - I misunderstood. Sharing email lists is illegal as well - though they may have someone willing to li.. oops say that he sold them the list without either knowing about the other's purchase.

Daniel doesn't seem to understand that his hero is breaking the law here... Love it - he's complaining about Bill doing something that possibly could've been illegal (& certainly wasn't very smart) while Trump is blatantly breaking the law. That goes beyond "low-information" & well into "delusional".

LeeG
07-02-2016, 07:47 AM
To recap, his campaign illegally solicited foreign contributions and he and his campaign haven't responded.

Rigadog
07-02-2016, 07:56 AM
Shouldn't this be of concern as well ? "Mr Manafort, who was hired by the Republican front-runner last month, knows a thing or two about rebranding strongmen.The Washington operative has an extraordinary past roster of clients, including Ferdinand Marcos, the dictator of the Philippines, Unita rebels in Angola and Siad Barre, the military ruler of Somalia until his downfall in 1991.

Too Little Time
07-02-2016, 10:30 AM
It is a violation of federal law for campaigns and super-PACs to coordinate their activities, and that certainly includes sharing email lists.
The bolded text may or may not be true. At least in this case. The FEC has some power to make that decision. I certainly don't.

Since contributions to super-PACs are more or less unlimited, Trump could give his email list to a super-PAC. On the other hand the FEC does not seem to be concerned.

A quick internet search produced this:

https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/how-much-mailing-list-worth

It appears we do not know enough about the situation, but they can share an email list. If it was done according to the rules, then all is good.

Canoeyawl
07-02-2016, 11:20 AM
It is certainly possible to be both "low information" and "delusional"...

ljb5
07-02-2016, 11:54 AM
The bolded text may or may not be true. At least in this case. The FEC has some power to make that decision. I certainly don't.

Since contributions to super-PACs are more or less unlimited, Trump could give his email list to a super-PAC. On the other hand the FEC does not seem to be concerned.

A quick internet search produced this:

https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/how-much-mailing-list-worth

It appears we do not know enough about the situation, but they can share an email list. If it was done according to the rules, then all is good.

The link you just posted says unequivocally that the campaign cannot give the list to the PAC, which is the same as what I said earlier.

Perhaps they used a legal work-around. If they did, I expect that would need to be disclosed.

Soliciting contributions from foreigners is definitely illegal. I'm sure some of that can be explained and forgiven as simple error, but multiple emails from multiple sources, to every single member of a foreign parliament, continuing after complaints have been filed, is a heck of an error. Not the sort of thing a competent and studious candidate should be doing.

As for the claim that the FEC is not concerned... Well, there have been at least two ethics complaints filed over this issue, so you might just need to be patient. The FEC is, sadly, a bit toothless and inept, so there's a chance that they'll do nothing.

But that's okay. The FEC has authority over government regulatory enforcement, but they don't have authority over the facts, nor over my right to think for myself and come to my own conclusions. The same goes for you; you can think for yourself. We don't need to throw up our hands and say, 'Welp, I guess I need to be as inept as a government agency.'

You don't seem like the type of guy who habitually and blindly insists on compliance with every inept decision of government bureaucracy.... but on this issue, at this time, it seems like you find it convenient.

For now at least. If the FEC were to come out with a ruling against Trump, I fully expect you to have no trouble inventing a justification to help you overlook that also.

Kevin T
07-02-2016, 12:03 PM
Do you not have any idea how idiotic this statement is?

My guess is that would be a . . .



NO! ;)

Willin'
07-02-2016, 12:40 PM
Oh the irony if the drumpf is laid low by an e-mail scandal! :d:d

Too Little Time
07-02-2016, 01:00 PM
The link you just posted says unequivocally that the campaign cannot give the list to the PAC, which is the same as what I said earlier.
The issue is subtle. The link says the super-PAC cannot give to the Candidate. That is different than the candidate giving to the super-PAC. Given the flow of benefits was expected to be from the super-PAC to the candidate it is reasonable to believe that the reverse flow may have been overlooked.

I would like everyone to follow the law. But it is not your (or my) interpretation of the law that is important. In this care it is the FEC. And it seems the Supreme Court has addressed some of these issues also. I will let them decide as time passes.

I do not particularly like Trump. But I do appreciate people who play games in unexpected ways. He seems to be playing the election process different than the majority. He seems to have done well.

ljb5
07-02-2016, 06:04 PM
The issue is subtle. The link says the super-PAC cannot give to the Candidate. That is different than the candidate giving to the super-PAC.

Well, that link really is addressing a different situation in that Ms. Clinton was not a candidate for any office at the time of the exchange. And, as you point out, the direction of flow of information is reversed.

So one might wonder why you bothered to post that article... but I hope no one wastes too much effort wondering, for we all know that you weren't really trying to research the issue in a studious fashion; you were trying to throw up a smoke screen.

Since you now admit that the article you posted does not properly reflect the situation under discussion, I suppose you might admit your error.

It's certainly theoretically possible that the Trump campaign and Trump super PAC carefully and studiously tiptoed around the legal restrictions so as to share the email list legally, but that idea seems quite fanciful when you realize that they both then used that email list to solicit campaign contributions from many foreign nationals, which is a clear violation of law.

Your argument brings to mind the image of a bankrobber interrupting the heist to go put a quarter in the parking meter for the get-away car.

Canoeyawl
07-02-2016, 06:05 PM
This is no game.

Ian McColgin
07-02-2016, 06:14 PM
If you read the law, you know that passing names in either direction is a felony under the law. You also know that the jurisdiction must go through the FEC which has three Republicans who will never indict Trump for anything. It's good to publicize the corruption of the Republicans, not only seeking foreign contributions and unlawfully coordinating with PACs but also how they fix the enforcement mechanism. But no one is going to jail. They are protected.

All three Republicans are running on expired terms - long expired terms - because the Republicans in Congress won't allow Obama to appoint, even though he is legally required to appoint Republicans to the positions. They are afraid he'll appoint honest Republicans.

skuthorp
07-02-2016, 07:04 PM
So the Divine Right extends now from the Pres's extra-juducual powers to pardon, to the ability of elected representatives and their flunkeys to ignore laws?