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Norman Bernstein
06-29-2016, 06:43 AM
It seems that the Clinton Foundation is being broadly characterized as some sort of evil, nefarious scheme by Bill and Hillary, accused of all sorts of supposed malfeasance.... part of the inventory of suspicions being cast their way.

Fortunately, we DO have people who are willing to dig for facts... as opposed to those who shamelessly distribute misinformation and distortion. A trump flack on a news program made a rather serious accusation about the Clinton foundation's charitable giving... an accusation that was, as it turns out, completely false. Kudos to the program's host for doing the research.

All of this, by the way, needs to be put into the context of Trump's charitable giving.... or, at least, what he claims to have given, and the promises he's made, to give... without delivering.

So, first, I offer the clip where the Trump flack makes the accusation.... and the fact check that proves it false:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSKfh0QhMQ8

Next, the facts about Trump's own charitable giving:


In May, under pressure from the news media, Donald Trump made good on a pledge he made four months earlier: He gave (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/05/24/four-months-later-donald-trump-says-he-gave-1-million-to-veterans-group/) $1 million to a nonprofit group helping veterans’ families.Before that, however, when was the last time that Trump had given any of his own money to a charity?

If Trump stands by his promises, such donations should be occurring all the time. In the 15 years prior to the veterans donation, Trump promised to donate earnings from a wide variety of his moneymaking enterprises: “The Apprentice.” Trump Vodka. Trump University. A book. Another book. If he had honored all those pledges, Trump’s gifts to charity would have topped $8.5 million.

But in the 15 years prior to the veterans’ gift, public records show that Trump donated about $2.8 million through a foundation set up to give his money away — less than a third of the pledged amount — and nothing since 2009. Records show Trump has given nothing to his foundation since 2008.

Trump and his staff are adamant that he has given away millions privately, off the foundation’s books. Trump won’t release his tax returns, which would confirm such gifts, and his staff won’t supply details. “There’s no way for you to know or understand,” Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks told BuzzFeed (https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-promised-millions-to-charity-but-gave-little-to-his-ow?utm_term=.jtOQXnYBZ#.kiDjxzL5b) recently.

Hicks did not respond to repeated questions about Trump’s charity from The Washington Post. Trump earlier this month revoked The Post’s press credentials (https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/trump-revokes-post-press-credentials-calling-the-paper-dishonest-and-phony/2016/06/13/f9a61a72-31aa-11e6-95c0-2a6873031302_story.html) to cover his events.
[Months after fundraiser, Trump says he gave $1 million to veterans group (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-portrait-of-trump-the-donor-free-rounds-of-golf-but-no-personal-cash/2016/04/10/373b9b92-fb40-11e5-9140-e61d062438bb_story.html)]

In recent weeks, The Post tried to answer the question by digging up records going back to the late 1980s and canvassing a wide swath of nonprofits with some connection to Trump.
That research showed that Trump has a long-standing habit of promising to give to charity. But Trump’s follow-through on those promises was middling — even at the beginning, in his early days as a national celebrity.

In the 1980s, Trump pledged to give away royalties from his first book to fight AIDS and multiple sclerosis. But he gave less to those causes than he did to his older daughter’s ballet school.

In recent years, Trump’s *follow-through on his promises has been seemingly nonexistent.

The Post contacted 188 charities searching for evidence of personal gifts from Trump in the period between 2008 and this May. The Post sought out charities that had some link to Trump, either because he had given them his foundation’s money, appeared at their charity galas or praised them publicly.

The search turned up just one donation in that period — a 2009 gift of between $5,000 and $9,999 to the Police Athletic League of New York City.

‘An agent for charities’

In all, when the $1 million gift to veterans is added to his giving through the Donald J. Trump Foundation, Trump has given at least $3.8 million to charity since 2001. That is a significant sum, although not among billionaires. For example, hedge-fund titan Stanley Druckenmiller (http://www.forbes.com/profile/stanley-druckenmiller/?list=forbes-400), just behind Trump on Forbes’s rankings (http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/3/#version:static) of net worth, gave $120 million (http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2014/133/735/2014-133735187-0b5aa6a4-F.pdf) to his foundation in 2013 alone.

What has set Trump apart from other wealthy philanthropists is not how much he gives — it is how often he promises that he is going to give.

From 1988: “To the homeless, to Vietnam veterans, for AIDS, multiple sclerosis,” Trump said about proceeds from his first book, “The Art of the Deal. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0399594493?ie=UTF8&tag=thewaspos09-20&camp=1789&linkCode=xm2&creativeASIN=0399594493)” “Originally, I figured they’d get a couple of hundred thousand, but because of the success of ‘The Art of the Deal,’ they’ll get four or five million.’’

From 2015: “The profits of my book?” Trump said when a reporter asked (http://www.c-span.org/video/?400229-1/donald-trump-news-conference&start=704) about what he would do with the proceeds from his most recent book, “Crippled America. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1501137964?ie=UTF8&tag=thewaspos09-20&camp=1789&linkCode=xm2&creativeASIN=1501137964)” “I’m giving them away, to a lot of different — including the vets. ’Kay?”

These promises seemed designed to reassure potential customers and voters and to reconcile two sides of Trump’s public persona. On one hand, Trump said he had so much money that he didn’t need more. But on the other hand, he was always selling something.

The explanation was that the money Trump was making wasn’t for him to keep.

“I am acting as an agent for charities,” Trump said in 1989 at the unveiling of Trump: The Game. In news accounts, he estimated the board game alone would bring in $20 million for charity.

Milton Bradley, which made the game, saw the need for such a promise firsthand. After the company released the game — a Monopoly-like board game with Trump branding — it didn’t sell.

“The game was just nailed to the shelf,” said George DiTomassi, who was president of Milton Bradley at the time. One problem, he said, was that customers were not told about Trump’s pledge to give proceeds to charity. “They felt perhaps this was going to be something that a millionaire would make some money on,” DiTomassi said.

The TV commercial for the product was changed. “Mr. Trump’s proceeds from Trump: The Game will be donated to charity,” a new voice-over said at the end.
It still didn’t work. The game tanked.

Still, Trump said he made $880,000 from it, and even more from “The Art of the Deal.” In 1987, the mogul started the Donald J. Trump Foundation to donate his royalties.

But the proceeds didn’t go straight to charity. They went straight into Trump’s bank account.


The full article has more:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-promised-millions-to-charity-we-found-less-than-10000-over-7-years/2016/06/28/cbab5d1a-37dd-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html

Rum_Pirate
06-29-2016, 06:45 AM
and?

Norman Bernstein
06-29-2016, 06:52 AM
and?

There's no 'and'... the clip and the C&P are self-explanatory. Clinton was accused of failing to disburse 80% of the funds taken in, for charity.... and that was factually WRONG, and the Clinton Foundation received an A rating for its charitable efforts. In short, a bald-faced lie by the Trump campaign.

In contrast: numerous lies by Trump about his charitable giving.

Go ahead, spin it some other way.... we all need a good laugh this morning.

Norman Bernstein
06-29-2016, 06:57 AM
http://launch.newsinc.com/share.html?trackingGroup=92502&siteSection=site_section_id&videoId=31022278

Rum_Pirate
06-29-2016, 07:06 AM
There's no 'and'... the clip and the C&P are self-explanatory. Clinton was accused of failing to disburse 80% of the funds taken in, for charity.... and that was factually WRONG, and the Clinton Foundation received an A rating for its charitable efforts. In short, a bald-faced lie by the Trump campaign.

In contrast: numerous lies by Trump about his charitable giving. . . ..

So what?

Norman Bernstein
06-29-2016, 07:13 AM
So what?

Since you won't be voting for President in November, it means nothing, to you.....

...but then again, your perspectives on US politics, which you are not shy about volunteering, also mean nothing to the rest of us.

Rum_Pirate
06-29-2016, 07:37 AM
Since you won't be voting for President in November, it means nothing, to you.....

...but then again, your perspectives on US politics, which you are not shy about volunteering, also mean nothing to the rest of us.

Actually, as I have mentioned before, 'I am not entitled to register to vote' and as such 'I am not entitled to vote' , even if I want to do so.

If you wish to spin that into 'it means nothing to me', that is your prerogative.

Go right ahead, but please do bear in mind that you will be 100% wrong!

While you state that "perspectives on US politics mean nothing to the rest of us" it reciprocally applies that your and anyone else's perspectives on US politics mean nothing to me. After all it is only a forum and nothing results from 'discussions on it' to change the world.

However, as I have mentioned before, what happens in US politics, and economy, has a direct impact on this twin-island nation and thus me personally.

Nevertheless, because I stated a fact, you wish to disparage and denigrate me personally.

C'est la vie.

Norman Bernstein
06-29-2016, 07:47 AM
However, as I have mentioned before, what happens in US politics, and economy, has a direct impact on this twin-island nation and thus me personally.

American voters will be voting on issues of interest to Americans... and I can assure you that virtually nobody in the States cares one whit about the impact on a couple of tiny tourist islands in the Caribbean. Yes, what happens in the US may well impact the economy of your islands.... but then again, your islands, without American (and other foreign) tourism, might be hell-holes of poverty without us... and if Trump is elected and does half the things he says he's going to do, the effect on your islands is NOT going to be positive. Supporting Trump, even just 'spiritually' from a foreign island, is NOT in your best economic interest... and not in the true interests of most Americans.

Rum_Pirate
06-29-2016, 08:03 AM
American voters will be voting on issues of interest to Americans... and I can assure you that virtually nobody in the States cares one whit about the impact on a couple of tiny tourist islands in the Caribbean. Yes, what happens in the US may well impact the economy of your islands.... but then again, your islands, without American (and other foreign) tourism, might be hell-holes of poverty without us... and if Trump is elected and does half the things he says he's going to do, the effect on your islands is NOT going to be positive. Supporting Trump, even just 'spiritually' from a foreign island, is NOT in your best economic interest... and not in the true interests of most Americans.

1. I never suggested that 'virtually anyone in the States cares one whit about the impact on a couple of tiny tourist islands in the Caribbean.'
2. I pointed out that whats ' happens in US politics, and economy, has a direct impact on this twin-island nation and thus me personally.', and thus they are likely to be economically different "hell-holes of poverty without us". 'US' apparently meaning all global tourism.
3. I have no idea of what will happen in the future, I'd be a rich man if I could. Perhaps you are you such a wealthy person.
4. "Supporting Trump, even just 'spiritually' from a foreign island, is NOT in your best economic interest..." What are you going on about? Where do state that I support Mr Trump? A link please.
BTW I recall stating in other thread that I support neither Mr Trump nor Mrs Clinton and said that Americans had a hard choice in the upcoming election.

You continue you disparagement and personal attack initiated in Post #6 (and another thread - I can supply a link apologies I can't. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?208807-Some-truths-about-Hillary-and-Trump&p=4934572#post4934572 there seems to be vacuum cleaner gone wild on the forum. C'est la vie) to which I respectfully replied and explained in Post #7.

C'est la vie.

Norman Bernstein
06-29-2016, 08:08 AM
You continue you disparagement and personal attack initiated in Post #6...

Post #6 contains no 'disparagement' or 'personal attack'. I was merely stating my opinion.

Rum_Pirate
06-29-2016, 08:20 AM
Regretfully I can no longer carry on this discussion.

Posts that I have made this morning have been disappeared, but not by my deletion.

Please carry on with your personal attacks on me, they appear to be tolerated, my defences aren't.

C'est la vie.

Bobcat
06-29-2016, 09:00 AM
Regretfully I can no longer carry on this discussion.

Posts that I have made this morning have been disappeared, but not by my deletion.

Please carry on with your personal attacks on me, they appear to be tolerated, my defences aren't.

C'est la vie.

Why do these reds view any disagreement with their positions as a personal attack?

Rum_Pirate
06-29-2016, 09:04 AM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Rum_Piratehttp://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=4934651#post4934651)Regretfully I can no longer carry on this discussion.

Posts that I have made this morning have been disappeared, but not by my deletion.

Please carry on with your personal attacks on me, they appear to be tolerated, my defences aren't.


C'est la vie.Why do these reds view any disagreement with their positions as a personal attack?

Why do you refer to me as a 'red'?

You appear not to have been able to read any of the posts of the personal attacks or the posts I made in my defence before they were deleted by person/s unknown.

If I were to respond in the way the 'privileged' on this forum attack me, I'd be banned.

Bobcat
06-29-2016, 09:08 AM
Why do you refer to me as a 'red'?

You appear not to have been able to read any of the posts of the personal attacks or the posts I made in my defence before they were deleted by person/s unknown.

If I were to respond in the way the 'privileged' on this forum attack me, I'd be banned.

The only person who can delete your posts aside from you is Scot. Perhaps you should consider that, rather than wrap yourself in the blanket of martyrdom

Rum_Pirate
06-29-2016, 09:18 AM
The only person who can delete your posts aside from you is Scot. Perhaps you should consider that, rather than wrap yourself in the blanket of martyrdom
Well then perhaps some are pressing the 'whine' button at every turn and Scot is trying to placate them, or there is another reason for which I am not aware for all the deletions, but there have been several deletions this morning.

Bobcat
06-29-2016, 09:26 AM
Well then perhaps some are pressing the 'whine' button at every turn and Scot is trying to placate them, or there is another reason for which I am not aware for all the deletions, but there have been several deletions this morning.

How about applying Occam's Razor: your posts were inappropriate in the eyes of the administrator. No conspiracy theory, no martyrdom

Too Little Time
06-29-2016, 09:26 AM
There's no 'and'... the clip and the C&P are self-explanatory. Clinton was accused of ...
There are a number of claims about the Clinton charity that are valid. One is that foreign countries gave large amounts while Clinton was Secretary of State and in negotiations with the countries over foreign policy issues.

A list of donors is at https://www.clintonfoundation.org/contributors?category=%2410%2C000%2C001+to+%2425%2 C000%2C000

Saudi Arabia gave between $10 and $25 million. The date is not given, but ...

Norman Bernstein
06-29-2016, 09:28 AM
There are a number of claims about the Clinton charity that are valid. One is that foreign countries gave large amounts while Clinton was Secretary of State and in negotiations with the countries over foreign policy issues.

Is there something malevolent or Machiavellian about that? It's a charitable foundation... lots of people, businesses, and even nations give money to charity.

Rum_Pirate
06-29-2016, 09:29 AM
How about applying Occam's Razor: your posts were inappropriate in the eyes of the administrator. No conspiracy theory, no martyrdom
C'est la vie.