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Gerarddm
06-28-2016, 01:49 PM
Labour MPs just voted overwhelming against him in a no-confidence vote. More Brexit fallout. Why wouldn't this trigger a leadership change?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
06-28-2016, 01:54 PM
It will, just wait.

Th big question is - who's next?

Diane Abbot....

lupussonic
06-28-2016, 02:35 PM
Corbin claims it's not legal constitutionally, and he's saying the electorate shouldn't be dictated to by a few (around 120 to be roughly precise) MPs who elected him, but now have no confidence in their original choice, during a time of national crisis.

Labour leadership contests seem to be about the only thing Labour does, each one taking ooooh, about 40 years.

'Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way'...����

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-28-2016, 03:19 PM
The man to blame is the late Viscount Stansgate. He got the Labour Party constitution changed so that ordinary members could elect the leader not just the MPs. Daft, as you can see.

John Meachen
06-28-2016, 03:31 PM
The man to blame is the late Viscount Stansgate. He got the Labour Party constitution changed so that ordinary members could elect the leader not just the MPs. Daft, as you can see.


Do you think he might be amused at the thought that his son was sacked by the man that the Parliamentary party are desperate to be rid of?

Peerie Maa
06-28-2016, 04:16 PM
Corbin claims it's not legal constitutionally, and he's saying the electorate shouldn't be dictated to by a few (around 120 to be roughly precise) MPs who elected him, but now have no confidence in their original choice, during a time of national crisis.

Labour leadership contests seem to be about the only thing Labour does, each one taking ooooh, about 40 years.

'Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way'...����
The man is a tw@

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-28-2016, 04:25 PM
Do you think he might be amused at the thought that his son was sacked by the man that the Parliamentary party are desperate to be rid of?

Actually, yes, I think he would have cracked up and laughed like a drain.

skuthorp
06-28-2016, 04:26 PM
It's a mess. Conservative party rules say two candidates have to be nominated and then party members get the vote. The trick is for the parliamentary party to keep Boris from being one of those candidates. Both majors are badly split. It's a mess.
Evidently during a EU sitting in Brussels insults harking back to 'the axis powers supporters' were thrown about.

Sky Blue
06-28-2016, 04:43 PM
Blairite Europhiles in both Labour and Tory camps should join forces to form the "European Union Party." They can fawn all over each other about how brilliant and enlightened they are while sneering at the poorer of their countrymen, condescending to them, all the while ignoring the real needs and wishes of a majority of the voting electorate in Britain.

It will probably work out very well, unless some fool promises a referendum, or something like that. In that case, efforts to subvert the majority will might well be necessary, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.:rolleyes:

skuthorp
06-28-2016, 04:53 PM
There were protests in London over the Grexit result, but further north there were none. That said the financial engine of Britain is London. Way too early to tell what will happen now, as I said before 'all the hats are still in the air".
As for any sort of alliance between the two majors, that would defy 400 years of history and generations of odium for each other. Can't see it happening EXCEPT for a specific occasion to attempt a sort of 'government in extremis' as a caretaker.
Likely though is an election, in which case they'll likely get Boris the opportunist with no plan who, presumably, voted oneway when he actually supported the other.

Peerie Maa
06-28-2016, 05:34 PM
There were protests in London over the Grexit result, but further north there were none.
Not totally true.

Hundreds of people attended a pro-EU rally in London on Tuesday - the initial meeting in Trafalgar Square was abandoned over fears of crowd numbers, but those who did gather moved down Whitehall to continue their protest outside the Houses of Parliament.Demonstrators chanted "Down with Boris" - referring to senior Tory Boris Johnson - and slogans against UKIP leader Nigel Farage, both of whom were two of the leading figures in the Brexit movement.
And hundreds also turned out in Cardiff, at an event which included speeches from Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood and racial equality activist Shazia Awan.
Spokeswoman Beca Harries, said: "Cardiff voted to remain in the European Union, and we felt it was important to mark that and say, these results don't represent what we believe in."
Other rallies in Manchester and Oxford were abandoned over "safety fears" and a protest in Liverpool was postponed until next week.
It is worthy of note though that the cities voted in as did Wales.

obscured by clouds
06-29-2016, 09:30 AM
Not totally true.

It is worthy of note though that the cities voted in as did Wales.

well the bit Gareth and I are from did, as well as Ceredigion, Cardiff and the Vale, but the rest all went for out, albeit a lesser majority than Ingerland, despite being in receipt of a substantial amount of structural investment from the EU and having a lower amount of 'immigrants' than elswhere. I blame all the English immigrants myself :)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-29-2016, 09:45 AM
Corbyn will have to go, of course. But what is really going on is a different battle. It's really a struggle for control of the party, between the post-Blairites and the Trots. Corbyn got in because of a freak situation which will now be reversed.

keith66
06-29-2016, 11:55 AM
As has been said before all members of the party had a vote in electing Corbyn. From this he claims a mandate to stay. Unfortunately it could be called "the three quid mandate" as this was how much it cost to be a voting member of the Labour party when the leadership election was held. In our yacht club alone i personally know 4 people (Conservative voters) who joined the labour party simply so they could vote Corbyn in, extrapolate that outwards! The reasoning was that he would make the party unelectable in the forseeable future . So a lot of his voting mandate was actually provided by the conservatives!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-29-2016, 12:10 PM
As has been said before all members of the party had a vote in electing Corbyn. From this he claims a mandate to stay. Unfortunately it could be called "the three quid mandate" as this was how much it cost to be a voting member of the Labour party when the leadership election was held. In our yacht club alone i personally know 4 people (Conservative voters) who joined the labour party simply so they could vote Corbyn in, extrapolate that outwards! The reasoning was that he would make the party unelectable in the forseeable future . So a lot of his voting mandate was actually provided by the conservatives!

Exactly!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-29-2016, 01:54 PM
How about this for a scenario (and an insight into the end-game):



Corbyn refuses to go
Challenger mounted and defeated by Momentum, sorry, "Labour" grass roots membership

Corbyn reinstated as leader but cannot form a credible shadow cabinet

Tories call a snap General Election

Momentum de-select the dissenters as punishment for refusing to form shadow cabinet and impose Momentum sympathetic candidates

Infiltration of far left in Labour party and a bet on Tory protest vote to gain a majority





I recognise someone else who has done battle with the Trots. Your scenario is all too plausible.

John Meachen
06-29-2016, 04:32 PM
I think Jeremy Corbyn can rest assured that he will rate a mention in the history books.He probably wouldn't have wanted it to be on the basis that there hasn't been a more obtuse party leader in living memory.

Should the scenario of an autumn election come to pass,it could get really complicated in those constituencies where leave was the overwhelming choice.Could any party other than UKIP win there?

Gerarddm
06-29-2016, 08:03 PM
So if a snap general election were called by Cameron's successor, and the campaign was basically based on Leave or Remain, would not this be a defacto 2nd referendum, this time with legal ramifications? If a Remain Conservative prevailed, would that not indicate a mandate to cease Brexit, or not formally start it at all?

AndyG
06-30-2016, 04:04 AM
...but by that autumn election the Torys might be led by Gove. (He's announced he's standing for the post.) He's no plan, other than 'leave' (just like Boris) and is thoroughly detested by millions.

Interesting times.

Andy

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
06-30-2016, 04:42 AM
Gove!

How much does it cost to join the torys? - Perhaps we could get Corbyn or some other non-gove elected Leader of the tory party.

PS - Is the plural "tories" or "torys"?

Duncan Gibbs
06-30-2016, 05:20 AM
Torra

Dincha ga'ta Eton or whaddever? :p

If de-selection actually did occur, those sitting MPs would most likely leave Labour and form another party, having nothing to lose anymore... Except their seats that is.

skuthorp
06-30-2016, 06:37 AM
Boris has fled the scene……...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/world/europe/britain-conservative-party.html?_r=0

Whose next?

Sky Blue
06-30-2016, 08:20 PM
Corbyn's support is deepening, making a quick and dirty force out unlikely. He's actually showing the leadership he was hired for. His standing up to the Blairite Remainers is causing new registrations to swell. Labour has signed up 60k new members in the last 7 days, many of whom are said to have joined simply to support Corbyn. I've a new respect for him.

Gerarddm
06-30-2016, 08:25 PM
^ Wasn't he technically a Remainer too, though? What is he " standing up" against?